So, how popular is Vintage RACING in 2010?

[LWC82PE]

The cost of racing and maintaining a race bike might have something to do with it. The vinduros are so popular because they are non competitve. There has been discussion to try and get some competitive vinduros but theres just not enough interest yet. I think more and more people want to enjoy the low key social non competitive events like the HBBB, classic dirt, show and shine fundraisers and the vinduros etc as they don’t feel any ‘race pressure’ and past racers are now retiring from racing to just do the non competitive events. I think E74 might be right and you gotta get the pre 90 class happening to let all the keen racers in their 30's/40's to race them and bring in new blood and revitalise the sport.

[Graeme M]

Well, I didn't mean to get back into the Pre90 debate, I was just wondering if numbers are down these days.

Matcho mate, I'm not sure that the Lakes Evo Challenge was as big as it could have been. I might be wrong, but I think we used to get up around 100 riders at some of the earlier HEAVEN events (back around 2002 or so I'd guess). Given how much the sport has grown, the number of people on sites like this, the amount of media coverage, and the sheer number of bikes and parts around now, wouldn't you think that a standard HEAVEN round should be showing something like 100-150 riders? And a big un like the Evo Challenge, which used to be promoted really strongly, might get some interstate entries and see maybe 150-200 riders?

I'm not having a shot at HEAVEN, it's just an example I am a little familiar with.

My point is, is club level racing really getting bigger, or has it started to shrink? I don't think that a state based club like VIPER or QVMX or HEAVEN is really getting bigger and being more successful if all they can boast is 40-60 riders at an event.

That said, I don't have any axe to grind. If it turns out that due to event numbers, costs, distance to travel, aging riders, and so on, the best we can expect is 40-60 riders, so be it. I am just wondering if I've seen a trend beginning, or if it's just the alignment of the planets...

[mainline]

I think it's just been a busy year.

I'd love to go to every event on the calendar within a reasonable distance but I have to balance the bike stuff with work, and time with the family.

And although I don't personally have a problem with later model bikes becoming part of the VMX scene, I think that you're kidding yourself if you think they're some sort of silver bullet for dwindling numbers at a club meet.

[BAHNZY]

Said it before, so I’ll say it again, VMX inclusive of Pre85 & Pre90 will ebb & flow with the times, seen it before and no doubt we’ll see it again. What causes it and what can be done to smooth it out would be akin to unlocking the mysteries of the universe.
Classes up to Pre78 & perhaps a little bit of EVO are victims of their own popularity, the bikes have become collectible rather than purely race-able and with parts becoming harder and more expensive with time to obtain does not help the cause. Add to that what has already been mentioned that riders living through a 2nd childhood have a crack at racing for a few years then retire to events like Classic Dirt & HBBB. I don’t know where QVMX and Heaven are at, but there are plenty of ex VIPER riders that don’t compete any more, yet still have their bikes and regularly turn up at events like HBBB, CD and practice days.

With access to Pre85 & Pre90 machinery more readily available and easier on the body than the earlier classes we can start to understand why the Pre85/90 classes are growing each and every year and will soon eclipse the EVO and earlier classes.

As I have said before, I don’t specifically agree with the old blokes and on bikes principle, and there is no doubt that a percentage of the younger riders don’t give the amount of respect that they should to both their machinery and their peers, but it is what it is. This was one of the things that I was glad to see will be changed where age classes can be run in the Pre85 & Pre90 races.  In general I don’t see the VMX community reacting in a timely & think outside the box  manner  to the changing status of the sport, particularly when the economy is down and people are looking for the best value that they can get out of their racing/bike budget.

[Nathan S]

Everything goes in cycles, and I think we're having a bit of a down cycle at the moment. It's not out of the ordinary, and I don't think its a sign of impending catastrophe.

Factors:
1. The continued success of Classic Dirt, and the rise of HBBB.
2. The success of Vinduros.
3. The loss of certain positive personalities from the scene.
4. Everyone being in a flap over the election (it makes a difference for many of the self-employed).
5. Fall-out from the GFC.


Providing we don't disappear up our own arses with the political stuff, VMX will come good again.

Newer eras coming on-line isn't a silver bullet - but if we continue to ignore them, then we will begin to slide and it will be very hard to scrabble back.

[Rossvickicampbell]

not trying to argue with some of the points already raised - but I raced bikes around 1980-82 - but when I wanted to start VMX in WA there was only pre 75 - so what - I have an absolute ball racing - you don't have to be locked into what you did as a kid although for some people thats the driver.  Also I do disagree with the comment about later model bikes being easier - IMO later model bikes ride on tracks much more difficult and rough - as opposed to natural terrain "VMX" - I find it easier on my 360B at Narrogin than I ever did on my 83 CR at Noble falls.  And to echo the comment above about non competitive rides - all our racing in WA is non competitive - you go the speed you want and have a good time - and despite the doom sayers pre 75 is good and strong over here.

If pre 90 is the answer - well lets keep going - pre 95 anyone?  Where does it stop - and remember all the arguing we have had regards having to split the Nats or big meets - unlike Moderns we need to cover eras - that needs to be taken into consdieration to and maybe will be with the proposed split?

[Shaun G]

Each state has its own individual circumstances. I ride in NSW so will restrict my point of view to what I see happenning here.

When certain classes at a club day have more flag marshals than riders we have a problem. As Graeme said all indications are that the sport in general has a healthy interest level. So why don't we get the numbers?

In my opinion as a club we need to seriously look at offering what the punters want. Because no matter how you look at it clubs like HEAVEN are the grass roots of VMX.

To me the only way to get the older eras back out there is Grass Track. I know that finding venues for these are the problem but none the less this is the problem we need to overcome. The success of the Crawford River and Canowindra events backs this up. My other view is that we need to introduce a later year cut off to entice younger VMX enthusiasts back into racing "what they had when they were kids" . By building up later eras at tracks such as Canberra and Lakes this will negate the drop off in pre'78 and earlier numbers at those events.

Until either or both of these issues are addressed I fear that club event numbers will continue to dwindle.

Cheers
Shaun

[SAABCOMBI]

MA. AUSTRALIA AND THE VINTAGE COMMSSION, CLUBS, ARE YOU LISTENING TO THIS AND TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING AND ASKING.

[TM BILL]

This side of the water numbers at race meetings have dropped over the last couple of seasons .

I think Nathan s post pretty well summed it up for reasons why.

There has been a decline in numbers in all classes, i would have thought that the pre 86 class would have grown here for reasons stated in other postings. Also there have been a large number of pre 86 bikes imported over the last couple of years .

You do see a lot of new faces at events but also a lot of other blokes dont come any more.

As far as pre 90 goes again there has been a shit load of nice pre 90 bikes imported over the last couple of years, but as yet there is no class for them here.

I went to a Vintage ATV meeting in the weekend (and rode VMX support class) i was suprised how many old 3 and 4 wheelers were out there , and a few VMX converts riding them 

[EML]

Nathan & TM are on to it, alot of we self employed guys are finding the cash flow down at the moment and we think twice now about spending on "fun" things-I haven't been to Golden Hands in ages

On the pre 90 thing-they will cut the guts out of a VMX track in no time and then the pre 75 bikes will be swapping ends in the braking bumps and Husky hopping out of the corners.

The reason you get so many old quads TM is that you have no sidecars.

[bigk]

CD & HBBB seem to be more about fun without stress, and is relatively cost efective for most, and will continue to grow for those reasons. Racing is a different thing however, on top of license & entry fees, you are usually expected to bring along a flaggy or hold one yourself, which IMO is the obligation of the hosting club, not the riders or their wives, girlfriends etc. This is a pet hate of mine. Also at most riders briefings you are usually spoken to in a stearn voice as if you are a child, with way too many do's & don'ts, and at one particular club here in Vic, "if you don't like it, FU&k off" seems to be the norm! Unfortuantely that's my club! Why can't it be " hey guy's use some common sense and let's have some fun"? There's also usually someone to sook about your bikes eligibility, because you have a 1978 model chain roller on your bike in the pre '78 class, even though the "sooker" probably has twin clicker adjustable shocks which were made yesterday on his. Then there's the wound up 16 year old riding dads bike in amongst the old blokes going ape shit all over the place, coz he's so fast! A lot of clubs don't or won't groom their tracks properley to cater for old bikes, especially down pipe bikes, and the guy's who set tracks, grass tracks included, usually make them too dfficult for the average guy. I'll say it again, any & all tracks should be made for the true C grader, the fast guys will still be fast and not so fast will have more fun and continue to come. VMX racing is stressful, too stressful for many and as much as I love VMX racing, I hate stress, I have enough in my everday life. There is quite a lot of VMX racing here in Vic as well, and if the factions involved put their heads together & actually co-ordinated things, we woud see more riders, vinduro's included. I can't see it changing too soon due to people & opinions. I hear it all the time, " I'd just rather go riding, than racing", no stress involved.
Cheers,
K

[All Things 414]

Well put K  .

[matcho mick]

eggsackery big K,nailed it,(apart  from the F@%k off,Dennis/Greg n co don't say that up here ),

[firko]

This is making me uncomfortable as it's happening far to often for my liking....I agree with Mr Nimmo that Big K got it right on the noggin' .

The whole success of  Penrith clubs formative days of vintage racing was largely due to the fun aspect. Everyone was full of enthusiasm and excitement for this new vintage motocross thing...nothing was a problem for the club officials and the riders reacted with the same positive attitudes. Sure there were rules, we were trying to establish vintage racing as a serious contender on the off road scene so we encouraged the racers to follow the basic pre '75 rules that had been laid down but if a newby came along and his bike wasn't Kosher, rather than send him home we not only let him race but also set him up with racers who competed on similar bikes to help him sort out the legalities of his bike for the future....a sort of buddy system that worked beautifully.

In Sydney it all started to go wrong when Penrith club started to get jaded and tired due to a lack of club officer turnover. Today, 15 years later the same people are still running the show and you're a lucky man if you get a smile out of them let alone a g'day. The fun and excitement that earmarked those early Penrith/Dargle/Nepean days has been replaced by sad sack, boring and way under subscribed  'same old shit' Nepean dirt track meetings. The old magic just ain't there any more.

I don't go to HEAVEN race meetings any more because some overseas guest racers and I were treated like shit at a Crawford River Classic a few years ago and the following year when Ajay, Billy F and I in our capacity as media reps were were treated equally as rudely. I know for real that that particular club official drove quite a few people away from the sport during his tenure. Thankfully the club is now in good hands and from all reports everything is going ahead in a positive and happy way. Sadly if the extreme rude attitude that was shown at those two CRCs has burned someone as keen as me, what did it do for any newbys or borderline enthusiasts that wanted to become involved but copped a face full of attitude for their trouble? We (Klub Kevlar good 'ol boys) always supported that event (hence us donating the Eldridge/Hine/East perpetual trophies) but now not one of us bother going to the CRC or any HEAVEN events. It burned thatdeeply.

I mention both of those club situations to make the point that a club must present a welcoming and friendly face to attract and maintain the loyalty of riders. We're all adults who participate in this sport for a myriad of reasons, the most obvious being that it's a fun escape from our weekday stresses. When the fun aspect is overtaken by negative vibes bought on by overbearing officials or on track dickhead rider behaviour, many folks just walk away, never to return.

Why are CD and BBB growing so fast while the racing side of our sport is floundering? One word....fun. The vibe that exists at both of those events reflects the cameraderie and joy that was the nucleus of VMX during the sports first 10 years. I know more guys building bikes for those events than for serious racing these days. You can build a bike that's out of left field and not race competitive and not give a damn as you're not competing for a trophy. If you're carrying injuries, extra weight or too many years (or all 3 like me ) you can still go out and ride your old bike and have some fun...there's that word again.

There are other facets that are restricting the growth of our sport like the dumbing down of the age groups, unsuitable track layouts, the costs of licences and entries, too many under subscribed divisions and many more but each of those deserves its own thread as they each have their own uniques set of circumstances.

[VMX247]

Sadly if the extreme rude attitude any newbys or borderline enthusiasts that wanted to become involved but copped a face full of attitude for their trouble-
When the fun aspect is overtaken by negative vibes bought on by overbearing officials or on track dickhead rider behaviour, many folks just walk away, never to return.

Very true-First impressions are lasting impressions.
cheers