Author Topic: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames  (Read 32417 times)

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Ji Gantor

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2010, 03:54:05 pm »
Hi walter,
Do you know there is vibration system that relieves all the welding stresses.
Some of the frame builders attach it to the frame while welding and when the welding is done so is all the stresses.

Ji

Ji Gantor

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2010, 04:04:23 pm »
Sounds cool
How much does it cost

Ji
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 04:08:40 pm by Ji Gantor »

Offline vmx42

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2010, 04:14:58 pm »
With a welding machine Jeff.

S%$T!!!! if we had known that at the start we could have been out of here by now!!
When a woman says "What?", it's not because she didn't hear you, she's giving you the chance to chance to change what you said.

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Offline vmx42

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2010, 04:28:09 pm »
Why would anybody like to 'fish for flies'?
When a woman says "What?", it's not because she didn't hear you, she's giving you the chance to chance to change what you said.

Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here…

"everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts"

Offline GMC

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #94 on: May 24, 2010, 10:01:38 pm »
Now if we can just find some Swedish guys, that were possibly around in the 70’s to tell us what the equivalent to AGA H52 is
It’s probably Swedish Stainless :D :D

I’ve repaired a few Pre 75 Maico frames over the years, mostly for knackered engine mounts. I don’t doubt it’s from loose engine mounts but it’s interesting that it’s mostly only Maico’s that suffer to the extent they do. I have often wondered about their balance factor.
The next common repair would be to fix up the badly modified rear ends. This is the result of the early frames being the same as 74 except for the rear ends and so many have been updated to 74 spec, I suspect a lot of them modified in the day, and poorly done, probably due to resources of the times.
I have had to repair a couple of front down tubes as well. These had many fractures throughout the tube. The swingarm knuckle joint has a hole that runs through them so any moisture from the rear pivot-shock tubes can drip into the lower section of the front down tube and rust them from the inside.
This probably occurs from cracks in the tubes from the modified shock mounts.
Any tube that has a crack in it will suck moisture in as it expands and contracts throughout the day but the vacuum inside the tube won’t let it back out.
I have seen this on frames of many brands.


Back in the 70’s stainless filler was common for welding mild steel.
Good TIG wire was scarce back then as it wasn’t all that common to TIG mild steel so no suppliers stocked good TIG wire.
Oxy wire of the time wasn’t copper coated, the rust layer wouldn’t bother an Oxy too much but would pop & fart when used with TIG
TIG was usually only found in the stainless steel game back then, and usually only in 3 phase. Accordingly stainless TIG wire was always around and it worked well for many applications
Nowadays cheap TIG machines can be bought quite easily just as triple deoxidized wire can too.

I have seen some samples from the cold welding machines.
I forget what letters they use for them (PMT or other) but I was looking at some demo pieces about a year ago. They’re wire feed like a MIG and it had welded a thin piece of Gal sheet to a thin piece of Aluminium sheet. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen it.
They were bloody expensive as I recall, I think $20,000 or thereabouts.

I worked with a firm many years back that was Laser welding stainless.
The flat sheets were clamped down in place and the Laser torch would run over top and fuse them together without filler. They were impressive welds except it couldn’t go around corners so they used to get me in to TIG the odd shape parts.
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Ji Gantor

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #95 on: May 25, 2010, 07:21:23 am »
Thanks GMC

What Type of Steel Are Maico Frames

The test results for a 1973 and 1975 suggest CrMo 4130 except for a slight change
All chemical elements are the same as 4130 except for the carbon content.
4130 has 0.28-0.33%, the 1973 sample has 0.24% and the 1975 has 0.22%.

Ji
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 08:03:43 am by Ji Gantor »

Offline JC

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2010, 09:21:34 am »
Thanks Ji

Lower C content probably means slightly lower grade/strength CroMo

wrt Maico frames cracking, I seem to recall Maico went 1mm thinker on the downtubes on the 74 LTR frames.

I had a 73 Maico which we LTR'd & it developed a hairline crack, from memory in the steering head just below where the lower backbone tube attached. Local boiler maker used low H rods as I recall & we had no further troubles.

Apart from that, mine was stone reliable over 3yrs racing. As far as I'm concerned, maico-breako was largely when owned by lazy imbeciles

Ji Gantor

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #97 on: May 25, 2010, 09:25:45 am »
Hi JC,
Good to read you words.
The Maico Breako thing was BS no problems.
The 77 frame had been reinforced with half cut tubes welded in all the problem areas.

Ji

firko

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #98 on: May 25, 2010, 09:44:55 am »
Quote
I had a 73 Maico which we LTR'd & it developed a hairline crack, from memory in the steering head just below where the lower backbone tube attached. Local boiler maker used low H rods as I recall & we had no further troubles.
That's what I said but I didn't get a thank you. :'(
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 10:01:36 am by firko »

Ji Gantor

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #99 on: May 25, 2010, 09:48:55 am »
Hay Mark read reply 112.

Ji

firko

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #100 on: May 25, 2010, 10:00:39 am »
My apologies Robert........missed that one. I can now sleep soundly.

Offline vmx42

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #101 on: May 25, 2010, 10:35:55 am »
The test results for a 1973 and 1975 suggest CrMo 4130 except for a slight change
All chemical elements are the same as 4130 except for the carbon content.
4130 has 0.28-0.33%, the 1973 sample has 0.24% and the 1975 has 0.22%.Ji


A tortured path but we got there in the end. Yeah!

Time to shut up shop and move on…
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 10:42:46 am by vmx42 »
When a woman says "What?", it's not because she didn't hear you, she's giving you the chance to chance to change what you said.

Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here…

"everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts"

Ji Gantor

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #102 on: May 25, 2010, 11:58:11 am »
Is this a designer steel or a standard German CrMo back in the seventies?
May be Lozza or another member may be able to shine some light on that question.

So why is carbon added to steel?
What benifits does having more or less carbon bring?

I think Maico was pretty smart in their tube metal selection.

Ji

Offline GMC

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #103 on: May 25, 2010, 01:19:45 pm »
Well it seems I stand corrected.
The low Carbon would explain the “soft” feel when working with Maico frames.
Carbon is the magic ingredient for making steel harder but at the expense of brittleness.
A drill bit for instance is harder / tougher than most steels we work with but it is also brittle and will snap easily. (Easy outs snap easy too ;D)

I highly doubt Maico would have designed their own steel, what ever they used would have been commercially available at the time.
(Factory seconds come to mind :D)
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Offline Lozza

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Re: What Type Of Steel Are Maico Frames
« Reply #104 on: May 25, 2010, 01:22:36 pm »
Ji can you post the full results the eveidence of copper in the alloy will prove/disprove anything.


So for the final time do all the Maico experts agree that the frame tube is CrMo?
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