What Nationals would you ride if they were split?

[Nathan S]

Worms, yes but why?

Firko, Age racing was important in the early days, no doubt about that. Is it still important for VMX in 2010? If so, why?

As I hinted, my gut feeling is that "age racing" has become a pseudonym for "riders of similar ability and ambition" - but it is actually neither of those things.

Edit: I'm not suggesting that rider grading is the solution/better. I'm trying to work out the appeal of age racing.

[JohnnyO]

Age groups are the way to go, that way the older guys don't have to race against loose unit young guys with little fear and no idea of pain! We all want to get home in one piece.
Also a lot of us over 40 guys are still competitive and feel we have a good chance of winning races against our own age group.
There can still be an all ages race for those that want to mix it with the young or old.

[firko]

Firko, Age racing was important in the early days, no doubt about that. Is it still important for VMX in 2010? If so, why?

I'm getting a real deja vu feeling here Nathan....we've been down this dusty road before and we didn't achieve any concensus back then either .I thought I'd given my reasoning for the need for age groups in my previous posts but at the risk of repeating myself, I feel that the same reasons that worked back in the beginning are even more valid today. As I've said in previous posts, I feel that age groups a major factor in attracting new blood to the sport because it creates a parity that is attractive to many older racers and I reckon anything that helps get more people back into the sport is a good thing.

I guess you aren't at that place where you see the sport through old guys eyes yet Nathan. Let's see what your attitude towards age groups is when you're 45 or 55.

[SAABCOMBI]

Amen, Mark, Wasn`t their an album out in the early day`s call thick as a brick. but some are to young to realise that.

[dkupf]

 OOOh yes the old Jethro Tull album Thick as a Brick. That brings back some old memories (girls dancing topless in front of the camp fire at Lakeside) Darcy

[worms]

Wasp, if their has been National titles award for age group in Pre75, why should it all of a sudden change just because their might be age group racing for all class's, in sidecars your raceing fields of 6 not 40 as we get in solo's so why cant we have age groups and overall trophies for all class's of VMX. Get on a solo and race agaisnt 30 or 40 to the first cnr and see if you change your mind, split the era's and we will get more race time and we can have age groups, if you dont want to race your age group you will be able to just do the overalls.

cheers trev

[firko]

Amen, Mark, Wasn`t their an album out in the early day`s call thick as a brick. but some are to young to realise that.

With the greatest of respect Dave....What the fu*k are you talking about? What the hell as Jethro Tull to do with my post? If, by chance you're referring to my deja vi quip....Deja Vu was an album by Crosby Stills Nash and Young. Now back to the subject.....What about those peskt age groups eh?

[Nathan S]

Firko, Age racing was important in the early days, no doubt about that. Is it still important for VMX in 2010? If so, why?

I'm getting a real deja vu feeling here Nathan....we've been down this dusty road before and we didn't achieve any concensus back then either .I thought I'd given my reasoning for the need for age groups in my previous posts but at the risk of repeating myself, I feel that the same reasons that worked back in the beginning are even more valid today. As I've said in previous posts, I feel that age groups a major factor in attracting new blood to the sport because it creates a parity that is attractive to many older racers and I reckon anything that helps get more people back into the sport is a good thing.

I guess you aren't at that place where you see the sport through old guys eyes yet Nathan. Let's see what your attitude towards age groups is when you're 45 or 55.

I'm not looking for any sort of concencus - I'm trying to understand. So please repeat yourself!

At 34, I'm the same age as most of the guys who were attracted to VMX in 1990ish. I'm a slow and timid rider, so I also fit the stereotype of the guy who would benefit from not being mixed in with "those crazy young guys".
The reality is, that I am yet to encounter a crazy young rider at a VMX meet. Indeed, the most aggressive/forceful riders I've encountered have been old blokes.
And I've raced against guys like Brad and Boagy and they hose me just like the 'crazy young guys' (and they also hose most/all of the young blokes too).

So I can't help concluding that the "17 yo lunatics" is a myth in modern-day VMX, and consequently the whole "Age group racing will save us" is a false messiah.

Looking at modern MX, there a lots more 30+ blokes still racing, than there were in 1990. Before they ruined the track, the ACT club had seperate, healthy grids of over 35s and over 45s at their club days.
The old idea of getting married at 23, buying a house and having kids, and giving up dirt bikes is redundant. The equivilant guys who were drawn to age racing in the early days of VMX are now enjoying age racing in moderns - so re-invigorating it in VMX isn't going to resut in a big influx of older riders to VMX in 2010.
The HEAVEN example has bourne this out - despite a lot of older, semi-retired VMXers saying that they'd return to regular VMXing if age racing was offered, very very few of them even turned up to a single meeting.

(Yes, I am largely playing devil's advocate here. I can see at least one REALLY good reason for age racing - But I'm really trying to shake out the reasons why the older blokes are so strongly against racing younger blokes of the same/similar speed).

[SAABCOMBI]

Nathan, the age group classes are introduced to separate young from the old racer. and you are right in saying that some of us oldies are still quick, some are slower, but that doesn`t matter, when we race all power classes us oldies have that choice to race the younger fellows. it just makes us feel better when we are in our own age group just for one race. its know big deal. cheers David #46
older fellows race younger fellows in these classes all the time (for etc), 125 scratch, 250 scratch, 360 scratch, 4 stroke class, all powers, pre 65, pre 70, pre 75 so it keeps going, so whats the deal. If the older fellows are thinking about not racing the younger well they may as well just ride the age group class and then go home.

[worms]

spend a week in a spinal ward and things look different and how you race changes. does everything have to be a success for it to proceed. Nathan youre only young so i can see where your point of view is coming from, wait till your 48 and see if you still feel the same, i doubt it very much. age group racing for all class's is overdue, even my son uses his old man for traction, he dosnt mean to but that is how they race, no fear

cheers trev

[GD66]

There's also the respect factor to consider. At Narrogin on Anzac Day, the VMXWA club had a rollup of around 70 riders, but early in the day there were 17 on the startline for the Over 55s. Not that all of them are jets, but that class in the last 18 months in particular in WA has featured some of the best and closest racing of the programme, particularly at the Bridgetown grasstrack under lights last November. Several stars in that class have figured prominently at national level in the last few years, including Bill Copley, Graham Taylor and the amazing Bill Watson. To me, it's worth keeping that segregation just to observe the high standard of mutual respect between a bunch of gnarly old buggers that still get well and truly stuck into it. More power to your right arms, lads ! 

[All Things 414]

I never really thought about it. I think there's more of a fun factor racing against guys of your own era.

I probably am a bit more defensive riding against younger guys (elbows out) ready for some wild moves however in saying that there's a guy I regularly race against who shows no respect for other riders at all and he's older than I am.

I still think I'd prefer to race against my own age group and I can see where that'd be more appealing to a guy just getting into the sport (which was relayed by someone to me just tonight. Himself a competent rider he was quick to let me know he didn't wanna be racing against young guys.... )

[firko]

So I can't help concluding that the "17 yo lunatics" is a myth in modern-day VMX.

Probably true, but it's the perception that there is a different style and outlook between the ages that sticks with the older racer. I think that if you did a straw poll amongst the older members of our sport you'd find that they'd prefer to race with their age peers. The response from most on this thread would seem to back that point. When we developed the age group system it was designed to appeal to the over thirty and over forty aged riders, to give them the option to race amongst their age peers. The success of age group racing proved beyond doubt that it was what the punters wanted. Remember also that the all in capacity classes were also in place so not only did a rider have the opportunity to race amongst his age peers, he could also test his ability in open age racing if he so desired. It's the best of both worlds.

Many other sports feature age groups. Until I fell apart, I played Oldies Rugby in an over 40s competition, my mate still plays in the same rugby comp but now in an over 50s team and he also plays in an over fifties squash series. Swimming, athletics,tennis and even surfing feature age divisions AND I'm sure we'd find plenty more if we had a bit of a dig around.

As Trev and I aluded to earlier Nathan, If you were ten years older I reckon you'd have a different view on this. Once you hit  your forties and body body doesn't function as well as it used to be and your perspective on life changes, your outlook will be a lot different. I know because physically and philosophically I'm a very different person to what I was when I was 34. My priorities have changed as have nearly all of us on the other side of 45-50. Try and look at the age group thing from the perspective of someone 10 years older and maybe you'll understand what I'm trying to explain.

[VMX247]

even my son uses his old man for traction, he dosnt mean to but that is how they race, no fear
cheers trev

Another point to take into the equation is a lot of younger riders (17-25) that are getting involved in mx racing are only just starting out.They haven't had the opportunity to ride since they could walk,or have a good mentor or an ex mx father figure.
I don't believe our VMX kids are in the same league.
The new kids have NO FEAR and are over confident swappers really       .
Bringing the MX injury rate higher (three broken legs on Sunday,(not a good look for mX in general)
oops hijack

[Rossvickicampbell]

eggsackery - people like Boagy et all are an exception to the rule - not the norm.  By all means have the classes for the championships etc etc etc but let me get out and "play" with my mates in my age group.  This is a fundamental difference between us and moderns - we have eras to cover in both bikes and riders - not so much in modern.  If I am good enough or so inclined I can race for a sheep station and wear the consequences - if Fatboy and I want to have a tussle and use Freaky fro traction in the over 45's then please let us - no really please let us!!!!!