What Nationals would you ride if they were split?

[holeshot buddy]

i think it should be run together on a 3 day weekend
on a track like eg; bullahdela at crawford river  run pre78 on grass track
 and post 78 on modern type track
say frid sat pre 78  and sat sun post 78
you could run scrutineering and practice for post 78 on sat and race sunday
 and scrutineering and practice for pre78 on friday and race saturday
with it split there would be heaps of time to run all classes
that would be a perfect venue i am sure there are others as well

just my 2 bobs worth

[worms]

due to the size of the event, why do we need a hard and fast rule, MA should allow the event to be split to suit the clubs running it, so you can run pre 78 down, pre 78 up or the whole lot, then you can run titles where they will gather the most competitors, second you could run them bi anually, pre78 down one year, pre78 up the following and then a combined event for the third year over the easter weekend somewhere, when the event is split you could add more age group events and then change it up for the combined event. Why cant clubs choose even to run age groups in say just pre 85 or just evo and not this singular pre 75 mentality, clubs could then promote different eras for their event

Cheers Trev

[SAABCOMBI]

When club is running a vintage meeting they can add classes, as long as they stick to the eligiblty ruling for vintage. Bur when it comes to a National meeting its a different ball gamw.

[worms]

True, but flexability is the key, I only know too well what is required for a Nationals event and my thoughts are just that, it's not about how the way they been run in the past or how the MOM's are written but how do we get clubs more atune to wanting to run the event, we have got to make clubs WANT to run the Nationals and allow some flexability.

Cheers Trev

[Noel]

Am I missing some thing
"
18.13 AUSTRALIAN classic
MOTOCROSS and dirt track
CHAMPIONSHIPs
18.13.1.1 The Championships will be conducted
as single meetings at a venue selected
by the Classic Motocross and Dirt Track
Commission.
18.13.1.2 Evolution class and Pre 85 may be run as
part of the Australian Classic Motocross
Championship or independently."

What does 18.13.1.2 mean,
Is it MA that pick the club thats only willing to do both.
Noel

[SAABCOMBI]

i wouldn`t think so, its up to a club to put in a proposal to host the national meetings, and that should go to the selection board to deside wheather they are capable in running the event and also if the track will be suitible to run an event of this size.

[firko]

Believe pre75 has age races to keep the grid numbers up.

With respect, the age group classifications ip pre '75 had nothing whatsoever to do with " keeping the grid numbers up".
It was introduced at the very first official vintage meeting at Amaroo Park in 1988 as a means to create some sort of parity amongst riders and therefore attract riders who had left the sport because they had become older and no longer wished to race with younger, more radical riders. If one aspect can be acknowledged as the reason for vintage racings meteoric success in the late eighties to late nineties it'd be age group racing.

[DJRacing]

It's not for me to say, and I'm only looking from an outsiders point of view, so please dont put out a contract and send the hit-men of vmx to hunt me down.

Nationals are Nationals.

But the vastness of Australia doesnt allow its self to be 'travel' friendly so a track that can cater for 'all eras' and 'all ages' is always going to be difficult to find (I'm not saying none exist) so I look at different ways to accommodate all bikes and riders.

At present the 'Nationals' are held once yearly and held at different venues. That format works, and should be kept. But there could be a twist to the 'classes' format. At the moment all 'class eras' race on the same track and same weekend which makes for a very big (extended) meeting.

My 'outside' view is that the 'Nationals' could be (should be) still held every year but bi-yearly for the different 'class eras'. In other words, the Pre60, Pre65, Pre70 and Pre75 classes (including sidecars) plus 'age group races' could be raced the first year on a track that is "suitable" for those eras. The following year the 'Nationals' would be held for the Pre78, Evo, Pre85 and (when/if) Pre90 classes, on a track more suited to those bikes.

 This still means that the 'Nationals' are held every year (albeit, bi-annually in reguards to classes) with more time to run the races (or less time to be away from home) on tracks that could show case the bikes in there respective eras.

My understanding of most VMXers, is that they have more than one era of bikes in their stables so they can still ride each year at the 'Nationals' and if they dont have bikes for both years then what a great excuse to get another bike  

With certain 'eras' only getting to race bi-annually it could bring out more bikes, make the winning of trophies even more special because the trophy is held for two years and if a racer is less fortunate with finances and only has the one bike then he/she is more likely to go to the 'Nationals' every second year rather than every year.

Anyway, I'll keep looking over my shoulder for those hit-men, at least until Nathan stirs it up somewhere else    

Alot of this was talked about in here...  
 http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=11134.0

[SAABCOMBI]

Age group classes should a commodate all classes. This my opinion about cut off dates for classes.
pre 90 to 85 models
pre 85 to 80 models
pre 80 to 77 models
scratch races  for 125, 250, over 300
all powers
age classes.
sidecars
2nd national vintage meetings
pre 77 to 73 models
pre 73 to 68 models
pre68 to 64 models
scratch races for 125, 250, over 300.
pre 64 scratch all powers
age classes
sidecars.
Delete 4 stroke only classes, you don`t need it, years ago they all raced together.

[firko]

and has worked well-should it be expanded for 85's now?

Alison, I reckon it's imperative that it be introduced to the pre 90 and older divisions at Naitional level. I think it may have the same effect that it had with the pre '75 division in '88 by giving a degree of parity to older racers who are hesitent to race against younger riders. I personally know of a number of former pre '75 racers aged in their fifties who would like to race the more physically forgiving Evo/Pre 85 bikes but are put off by having to race against younger/faster/fitter/more agressive younger racers. By giving them the age group option they can compete with age peers yet if they feel confident with their ability can also race in the open capacity classes. It's a win/win situation. As someone who's been competing, reporting and observing observing VMX for over twenty years I'm positive that the sports downturn from the heady days of the sports boom times can be pointed directly towards the 'dumbing down' of the age group classings.

On DJs well thought out suggestion that another option would be to run bi-yearly has some merit. One side benefit may be that it might encourage pre 85/Evo racers to build/buy a pre '75/78 bike and visa versa to enable them to still have their yearly Nationals experience, thereby strengthening the numbers of both factions. This could spill over to state series and club level encouraging racers to compete in both eras purely because they now had the bikes to do so.

The bi-yearly idea does have some problems connected with those guys who don't wish to cross pollinate both era events having to wait two years to experience their championship, risking the chance of them losing a bit of interest. Perhaps one way of countering that would be to promote a special "big club day" style meeting specifically catering to the division experiencing their off year. If that years Nats is for the Evo/Pre 90 brigage, a big pre '78 event could be held at something like the Crawford River Classic or a new "Condo style" meeting catering purely to the division without a Nats that particular year.

I'd personally still like to see both events held in the same year but reckon Dons theory deserves some consideration and discussion.

[SAABCOMBI]

 You won`t  get to any late 40 to 50 year olds race pre 90 , so l would use the age class for those era anyway.

[head]

I would like to see Evo and pre 85 Nationals with age groups, or at least a over 35's race. To many young guns trying to get a title.

[JohnnyO]

I personally am looking forward to age groups coming into pre '78, Evo and pre '85 at least.
There is a real mixture of young and older riders particually in Evo and Pre '85 and it would be fairer for the guys over 40.

[All Things 414]

Delete 4 stroke only classes, you don`t need it, years ago they all raced together.

Yes. I struggle to stay awake on the grid when they're the race before mine.......

[090]

Age group classes should a commodate all classes. This my opinion about cut off dates for classes.
pre 90 to 85 models
pre 85 to 80 models
pre 80 to 77 models
scratch races  for 125, 250, over 300
all powers
age classes.
sidecars
2nd national vintage meetings
pre 77 to 73 models
pre 73 to 68 models
pre68 to 64 models
scratch races for 125, 250, over 300.
pre 64 scratch all powers
age classes
sidecars.
Delete 4 stroke only classes, you don`t need it, years ago they all raced together.

This is your second attempt and it really still doesn't make much sense.
To start with you are trying to re invent the wheel which just won't happen (e.g. pre 73 to 68 wtf?)
And to delete four stroke classes? Why? Because you don't have one? If they get healthy fields, why not?
The best way to go about it is to draw a line between pre78 and EVO (not pre 80) and split in two. Then there can be age classes for everyone. Nationals at Coffs up to pre 78...perfect. Nationals for evo, pre 85 and even pre 90 and a couple of age groups as well ( under 45 and over 45 for e.g.).
If there aren't enough events in the later model bikes then you could have support classes to be determined by club running them (e.g. moderns, pre 78, pre 75, even ...gulp....sidecars).