Nats proposal

[supersenior 50]

A few weeks ago [19 March] I submitted a proposal to MA,copy to the Chairman Classic MX Commission, the short version of which is that for National Vintage MX titles the events be split pre78 & earlier/EVO & later.
This is in no way intended as a critisism of past events & organisers,rather a recognition of the increasing numbers of classes and the time pressures this creates.
The proposal is a positive move towards a future catering for all bikes & riders.
The proposal is two pages so I don't wish to load up this forum.I also didn't want to throw this into the ring & add to the pre Broadford discussions.
Any one who is genuinely interested in this subject [no rabble rousers please] is welcome to E-mail me for a copy so the prosal & it's rationales can be studied before opinions are formed.             
                        [email protected]

[ba-02-xr]

I think that would be a great thing. Time & tracks make it hard to keep it altogether.

[SLAWESY]

I think that the new proposal has legs…

Personally  I have bikes that were about when I was riding... EVO, and a lot of the tracks that we ride on in VMX (and don’t mind riding on by the way) are what I would have considered to be grasstracks back in the day.. This proposed split may allow us to ride on more MX type modern tracks as well.

With the large numbers of EVO and pre 85 bikes that seem to becoming more available we might be able to split  into age based races for this and other more modern classes with maybe longer race formats over more modern type tracks.

Have no idea if this is a feasible proposition or not. I’m sure you guys that have been around longer and more involved in race meeting administration would know if it is.

Col, great to meet you yesterday. Happy to see your proposal. My email is [email protected] Cheers

[Bamford#69]

Hi,
Changes are due ;
The programme is now too full to allow the inclusion of all Pre 75 age group classes,at the Nats and at State Titles
The addition of pre90 and soon pre95, will make it necessary to run Classic VMX at different time and a more suitable track ,The Modern VMX,Evo, pre 85 pre90, pre95, bikes can race on any MX track anywhere in Australia with their long travel suspension, just imagine how refreshing it will be to have a pre75 Title  and not to have all the discussion over changing the track to suit the short travel suspension bikes
The Classic and Modern VMX Titles can be run at different tracks and different times of the year,I see VMX sufferring these growing pains over the past years because we are trying to keep everybody under the same umbrella,its time for an amicable seperation of these two facets of Vintage MotoCross
Its a win,win situation for all concerned.
cheers
Michael Bamford

[shortshifter]

This is a sensible and well thought out proposal.Two thumbs up!

[firko]

Hallejujah!!  Supersenior 50 has come up with a proposal that solves a problem facing our sport before it's actually needed. With the Nationals program verging on capacity and with the pre 90 division not too far into the future it's inevitible that the Nationals be split.

While there are some that will be inconvenienced by having to attend two Nationals, I'm prett certain the overall feeling amongst the troops is that the split is a great idea thats time has arrived. Gone will be the complaints from the pre '75 punters of having to ride tracks that have been rutted and eroded by the long travel, big horsepower Evo and Pre '85 bikes and the Evo, Pre 85 guys can now ride tracks that aren't compromised to please the early bike racers. It's a win/win for both factions.

The proposal also offers the opportunity to reintroduce the much missed capacity age group racing for the pre '75 groups and introduce an opportunity to experiment with age groups in the Evo Pre 85 racing. Those who were around during the sports first decade will know that age groups in all capacities was the key element in the early success of the sport . It offered the racer an opportunity to race his age peers without fear of being taken out by a crazy 16 year old on hid dads Elsinore.

There are a few little problems that need to be addressed but overall, Superseniors articulate and well drafted proposal has all of the needed ingredients. I'd like to see some sensible discussion continue on this proposal without it turning into a pre '75 v pre 85 shitfight. It's the most radical change in the Nats concept since GE and I set up the original basic format in 1991.

[All Things 414]

It's an excellent proposal.  It's needed now I believe.  :'(

[BAHNZY]

The way the MA Rule Change process works.
- Proposals for the following year are to be submitted from Club, SCB, or individual to MA (MA Commissions Manager) by the 28 February.
- The proposals are put forward by the MA Commissions Manager to the relevant committees, commission, etc at the mid year meeting.
- Between this meeting and the 31st of July the proposals are discussed, documented and minuted and feedback provided to the Commission.
- Post the 31st July & prior to the August MA Board meeting the commission makes a decision on the submissions.
- At the August meeting the MA board ratifies the submission.
- If approved the submission is included in the following years MOM GCR’s

As a result if a submission was put forward on the 19th of March 2010, there is fair chance that it won’t be submitted or heard until 2011 for possible inclusion in 2012.
What I am keen to see is minutes from the meeting that occurs post 28th February & pre 31st July this year to see what has been put forward for the Evolution & Pre85 GCR’s.
If nothing has been put forward prior to the 28th February 2010 then we will be having the same discussion following the NATS in 2011.

[Rossvickicampbell]

Bahnsy - whilst this maybe correct - if there is enough support towards the concept then MA can consider changes that will allow the concept to be run in 2011.  A couple of years ago WA asked to hold only pre 75 Nats and this was allowed.  Therefore if everybody follows through with this excellent idea whilst it may not come in to formal discussion next year there should be no reason why it cannot be applied in the same year.

Well done Col - we need a few more doers 

regards

Rossco

[SLAWESY]

Col has just passed on his submission to me, definitely food for thought and it all sounds very reasonable and more importantly do able. If you have not had the opportunity it is well worth reading.

Email Col for a copy... or Col if your following the forum it may be worth posting into this thread.

[BAHNZY]

Rossco,
You are correct, it can be heard by the commission outside of the dates, hence why i noted, "there is fair chance that it won’t be submitted"

What i am concerned about is where a genuine & well thought out proposal gets public forum time where it may go off the rails and put some people, MA commissioners included, offside.
At the end of the day, the people that debate the pro's and con's of the submission are the MA commissioners not the general public. Yes we can support the submission but we need to be careful that we don't cross the line with a counter productive talk fest.

Rod

[Rossvickicampbell]

100% Rod and so true.

[supersenior 50]

Some good points made.The pitfalls as pointed out & to be avoided are :-
Not become a tiresome & counter-productive talkfest.For this reason I decided not to put the whole proposal on this forum.There have been many E-Mailed requests,most of which have been sent the full proposal.
Become an old bike verses "new" bike issue as warned by Firko's post.This needs to be a benefit to all.

The proposal was submitted through the proper channels,and as touched on in Rossco's post using the WA precident,any club can submit a proposal to MA to host the Nats in their chosen format.
I understand no one has put their hand up for 2011.Perhaps this presents an opportunity.

[211kawasaki]

I Can confirm that this issue is an agenda item for the May (annual) meetings. What you need to do as the stake holders of the sport is to ensure that your State Historic committee is on to it and responds to the proposal that is drafted by the commission. This and all other proposals need to have the agreement AND approval of the State Committee for anything to happen.

The Commission will do nothing unless there is response one way or the other from the States.

Lobby your state to become more involved or miss out!

211

[firko]

One point that comes up in my mind is the task of fitting an extra big meeting into an already crowded calendar. With HBBB, Classic Dirt, the Classic DT Nats, the two Vintage Motocross Nats, the various one off specialty meetings (Crawford River, Day in the Dirt, Jack Hogg etc)  plus the various individual state series rounds, it's going to take some artistic calendar manipulation to avoid causing interference with existing events. It's also an extra travel expense thrown into the mix.
To be clear, I'm very much in favour of the Nats split but situations such as I've raised need to be addressed before we commit ourselves to such an important decision. I'd suggest that perhaps it'd be worth looking into VIPER, HEAVEN and QVMX reducing the number of rounds in their series by one event to open the calendar up a bit. I'm sure that the club racers who don't bother with National events wouldn't agree but perhaps there may be too many local club meetings anyway?
I'm only throwing hypotheticals into the mix and aren't rigidly in favour of cutting calendars per se, I'm merely offering a suggestion.