Why do they weld coutershaft sprockets on?????

[crash n bern]

I recently bought a TT600 for a mate of mine. |He was happy with the bike but noticed that the front sprocket was welded on.  I felt bad that I didn't see it, so to make up for it I went and bought a XL 500 that had the front sprocket nut welded on. Not just tacked, but a full professional weld all the way around.
I noticed it because I look for it now. So I had to ask the question that had been bugging me for 35 years....WHY???  And I got the answer.  This was very enlightening, are you ready?

"Because it makes the bike last longer". Was the answer. How so, I asked?  "Because the sprocket was loose and you have to split the cases to replace the shaft, so welding it gives it a bit more life".  Mmmmmm, until the sprocket wears I guess. The irony to this was that the XL500's do have some play in the sprocket anyway.

So finally after all these years, I now know why countershaft sprockets are welded on. I have to go now as I have a shed full of  bikes that I need to weld the front sprockets up on to extend their life.

[mx250]

And I thought it was impatient 16yo's.

"We've lost the counter shaft sprocket nut. What will we do? Go to town and get a new nut or weld the sprocket on and keep riding?" 

[Doc]

I've had quite few bikes with this performance modification on some of the early suzuki's the sprocket nut and shaft can flog out after many years especially if the sprocket has been left a little loose. The nuts strips the shaft splines burr and the whole thing becomes ugly I've always assumed people who weld on sprockets simply don't have the knowledge to do any better Now this flogging out did happen to me back in my youth but we sat and thought..the shaft was hollow so we sacrificed a drill bit and bored it a little bigger to get rid of the case hardening. Then I simply tapped a thread into the end of the shaft. A big bolt,a large washer and simple spacer was fitted and the bikes remains like that until this day. The sprocket rotates counter clockwise and this bolts never come loose At the time I didn't have the cash for a new shaft and as always..it seemed like a good idea at the time..certainly better than welding the sprocket to the shaft

[maicomc490t]

Countershaft aren't the only thing to benefit from a bit of spattery stick weld holding things on - like every second bike or engine has either the gear lever or kick lever welded on when you get hold of em - f*&^%$ GREAT !!! 

[cyclegod]

Why do they weld coutershaft sprockets on??

Because forkwits know HOW to weld, just not what NOT to weld

[Doc]

okay..think you can handle the truth!

welding is 'normally' stronger than Araldite  

scarey eh!

[GMC]

Economics is what it’s all about.
I’m loath to admit it as it may get me crossed off the recommended suppliers list, but I too have welded a sprocket on. It was on an old archaic dunger I used to own, a KX 250 A4. The sprocket was held on by a nut, which must have worked it’s way loose at some point & stripped the nut. I tried fitting a new nut but it still came loose as the shaft was stripped as well.
I priced a new output shaft and as I remember it was something like $350.00 plus I had to split the cases to put it in. I wasn’t going to spend $350.00 on a part for a bike that was at best worth $300.00 so I welded it on so the bike could at least be ridden. It wasn’t really damaging anything as the parts were stuffed anyway. I did try putting the bike in the trading post for $500.00 ono but not a single call, by 82 it was so obsolete I couldn’t give it away & all my funds were going into keeping a KLX250 & a KX 420 running.
I eventually swapped it for an old Suzuki road bike that sat around for 10 years until I sold it for $100.00   Shoulda just left it in the shed.

So while this bush engineering quick fix is hideous by today’s garage queen standard, it’s a fair bet that the parts were buggered anyway & you still would have replaced them.

[Doc]

Geoff that is the exact problem I had with the rm400 way back when..a new shaft was 2 weeks wages for me and out of the question and at the time I did not possess a welder or the skills or lack thereof to operate it. The hole drilled and tapped up the guts of the shaft makes perfect economics..cost was half an hour to drill 20mm and 1 extremely blued 7mm drill bit which I promptly returned to the person from which I borrowed 

[crash n bern]

I can understand getting the old dunger going again. And kids using their only resources.  But both these bikes where in good original condition and the culprits where financially secure 40+ year olds,  In the case of the Honda, it didn't even need it, it was a just a misdiagnose.   

Heres another trap to watch for.  "Mate I pulled it out of the shed where it's sat for XX years, started first kick, rode it all day, ran like a dream."  This will be obvious as it will be covered in thick dust, usually thick red dust.  Check the bloody air filter, chances are it wont have one.

[Doc]

yeah had that one before.."hadn't run for years so I primed it with a bit of fuel and rode it for a while but now she won't go" Usually it has ingested what is left of the airfilter and or the bore was rusted and after running the bike it is now also totally rooted with the rust and debris going round and round the mains and bigend..rust is a super nasty abrasive and mixed with fuel which is classified as an abrasive in it's own right the resulting 'short' ride did more damage then the 20 years it sat against the shed 

[Johns]

Hi from Johns:-

Have come across this phenomeon a lot myself, and can relate to the ``no airfilter`` syndrome. Makes you wonder why people would butcher a perfectly good bike this way.

[GMC]

Yeah, the misdiagnosis & laziness can be a pain.
Many years back I had a courier come in that wanted me to weld his gear lever on for him. I tried to suss out his reasoning & that maybe all he needed was a new gear lever if the shaft was still okay. What, he exclaimed, new bloody levers cost 15 bloody dollars.
I told him to come back in an hour while I had a look & so he then handed me the gear lever, seems he had been riding it for a week with a pair of vice grips clamped to the shaft. After having taken the vice grips off, the shaft seemed okay, as did the gear lever but it wouldn't clamp up right. So I ran a cutting disc through the gap in the gear lever clamp & then fitted a high tensile nut & bolt & it worked fine.
When he came back I charged him twenty bucks thinking that he would arc up at the price but he happily paid it & went on his way.

Also many years back I bought a QR 50 for my son that had the kickstart welded onto the shaft. The kickstart eventually broke off with the end bit of shaft as the heat from the weld had weakened it, so it's definitely not a permanent fix.

[Doc]

That might explain a spare running RM400 motor I have (consecutive numbers means they were with each other on the assy line and then reunited again 20 years later in my garage) anyway, it has a big piece missing from the end of output shaft as if someone ( most probably Hercules, Big Arnie Schwartzhisname or Mr Atlas) tightened it that much it sheered the shaft!   I can now safely assume the sprocket may have been welded at some time and with the case hardening now but a memory it snapped clean off. I've another shaft in stock but simply too lazy to fit it until the complete motor is called for in other words it may sit there till I go belly up as after 10 years I've only just freshened up the motor thats fitted 

[pancho]

Why do they weld coutershaft sprockets on??

Because forkwits know HOW to weld, just not what NOT to weld

all older motor mechanics know that some people should never get there hands on an electric welder.cheers wally

[firko]

I’m loath to admit it as it may get me crossed off the recommended suppliers list, but I too have welded a sprocket on

With a bit of embarrasment I must humbly admit that I too am guilty of the welded sprocket syndrome. In 1973 I was prepping my 440 Maico for a dirt track at Woodstock the night before the event. Upon attempting to change front sprockets I discovered a stripped countershaft thread. Being 8pm on Saturday night I was up shit creek so I gritted my teeth and fired up the Oxy. Just to be safe I brazed the nut on with two small tacks and off I went to the races. When it came time to remove the nut I  had little trouble breaking the tacks and removing it. The shaft needed replacing anyway as it was stripped in the first place so in my instance, the backyard bodge did the job with no permanent damage.
However, I've been doing old dirt bikes up since 1985 and I've seen some doozies. I once got a Maico 250 with the triple whammy. The gear lever, kick starter and engine sprocket were all fully welded. I also once had a basket case OSSA SDR that had had the swingarm welded solid, possibly in some weird dirt track handling experiment.
A mate of mine once bought a Yamaha Ag at a farm auction that had the pipe(steel) welded to the barrel(alloy)
. I know it's impossible but you had to see the blokes amazing attempt. When he'd discovered that the stick welding wasn't going to work he then had a go at brazing it. When that also proved to be a flop he welded the pipe to the frame to stop it moving and covered the whole exhaust port welding mess with a whole tin of muffler putty. Unbelievably, the bike ran beautifully and didn't appear to leak that much. We had the unrepaired bike on our farm for years until he took it home and eventually sold it.