$3500 top end overhaul

[Mick22]

Why all the doom and gloom about modern 4 strokes?

Well for me its because I have never ever seen a brand new two stroke lunch itself, and if it did it would cost $1000 to fix.
I've lost count of the number of new 4 strokes I've seen die when new on trail rides.

I agree they are awesome bikes and I'll keep buying them but after what I've seen a few of my close mates go thru in the last year I will always have a healthy fear of them.

[JohnnyO]

If a 4 stroke blows up sure it's expensive.. there are a lot of moving parts in there.
The idea is correct maintenance and replace parts before they break.. not thrash it for 200 hours then bitch when something breaks.
I couldn't even begin to count how many siezed 2 strokes i've seen on the side of the track before the modern 4 stroke era. 

[Mick22]

I've lost count of the number of new 4 strokes I've seen die when new on trail rides.

I can see that could be read a couple of ways, I don't mean new as in modern, I mean brand new as in just off the showroom floor not even made it to first service and they have already blown up!

[JohnnyO]

I've lost count of the number of new 4 strokes I've seen die when new on trail rides.

I can see that could be read a couple of ways, I don't mean new as in modern, I mean brand new as in just off the showroom floor not even made it to first service and they have already blown up!

Can't say i've ever seen that mick but you can be unlucky.
I'm willing to take the risk on 4 strokes for the performance and overall package and fun factor.

[LWC82PE]

A dropped valve can write a bike off

I have seen this happen. its not good trust me.

[firko]

A mates son rode his XR400 in the dirt every weekend and on the 20k to and from work a couple of times a week for five years with nary a problem. He traded it in on a Honda WR250F because the magazines and his riding mates told him he had to "get with it" and ride something modern. After one club dirt track, a couple of trail rides he was forced to ride the WR to work for a few days when his wife needed the car. On the fourth or fifth day the bike started running rough to the point that it's barely pull up a slight hill and started knocking and blowing smoke. He put it into Hawkesbury Honda to check it out and a couple of days later he got the result...the bike needed a total top end overhaul from piston to valves and a bunch more stuff. He was quoted $2500 at 'mates rates' labour costs. As a young battler he couldn't afford to fix it.... The bike was three months old and totally rooted so he ended up selling it to a bloke for parts. I think he's still paying it off!

These modern 4 strokes may be great when they're going but for the average weekend rider, they're too complex and finnicky. The market needs an electric start XR Honda with modern suspension. Since I parted with the KTM400 I haven't owned a trailie but lately I'm feeling the need of one. I love riding the new bikes but as an older retired gent living on a limited budget and not wanting to race, I doubt I'll own one. Unfortunately there's little choice for someone looking for a weekend trail bike with decent suspension, electric start and a solid low maintenance engine except for the DRZ/KLX clone bikes of a couple of years ago or perhaps a Euro 2 stroke. What do you guys suggest?

[Marc.com]

I couldn't even begin to count how many siezed 2 strokes i've seen on the side of the track before the modern 4 stroke era. 

we must have hung out at different tracks, I saw bikes do a lot of desert miles in WA and can't remember too many seized ones, the odd boiled one I guess. Not many bikes blew up at all 2 stroke or 4 stroke.

I think mainly people are steered on to the wrong bikes by sales people and ego, DRZ400 will last forever, RMZ450 probably not. Told a mate of mine to buy and DRZ400 for novice trail riding and he turned up with KTM450SX, no helping some people.

[Davey Crocket]

Firko, most / some of the new 4 strokes have a life span of a 2 stroke eg....Honda CRF 250 and 450 -manufacturer recomends piston and ring change @ 10 hours (you even get a piston and ring set in the spares kit) and I know alot of people didn't even get 10 hours out of the shit Titianium valves Honda uses. At the Aussie 4 Day  when the Hondas came out a few years back I dont think any of them finished past the second day -valves hammered into head so bad they wouldn't start!!!.... the cure, put stainless valves in!. The Safari 3? years ago when Grabbam won, every night the mechanics put a brand new engine in!.....Honda goes, Honda blows. The reason we have 4 strokes is not because there faster, not because there less polluting (in noise and emissions ),not because there lighter, it's so the friggen manufacturer makes a shit load more money!!!!!. CON JOB!!!!

[monaro308]

To me the issue isn't how good the new 4 strokes are,its the cost to maintain them.
My 06 WR450F has been reliable but one day it will become someone elses time bomb and most likely a parts bike.
That was never the case with a 2 stroke...seized top end...no big deal,piston,rings,a couple of gaskets,off you go.
It aint gonna get any cheaper with fuel pumps,injectors,sensors,ECU's etc etc.
I like my 4 stroke,but i love my 2 strokes....less moving parts more fun....cheaper.

[Marc.com]

I like my 4 stroke,but i love my 2 strokes....less moving parts more fun....cheaper.

However this was not always the case, my 83 TT600 is still stone cold reliable, has more people on it than a porn star and been used as general hack for years with occasional oil change and valves checked every decade.

[monaro308]

No doubting you Marc regarding the old time 4 strokes,reliable as hell, and basic.
Its the new stuff that will possibly become only parts bikes because of the horrendous cost to rebuild them in the future,but i suppose people will pay to restore that vintage 4 valve reverse cylinder EFI YZ450F in 20 years time......if you can get parts.
Cheers......Mario

[Tex]

What do you guys suggest?

Personally, I'd like a Yamaha TTR250 if I was buying a "modern" trail/fun bike. A bit lacking in the performance area obviously, but air cooled reliability and the fact they have a kick and electric start makes them pretty attractive to me.

I've heard nothing but good things about them - reliable as a hammer seems to be the general consensus. Yamaha still make them too, so spares (if you need them) should not be a problem.

Used ones turn up on ebay etc quite cheaply from time to time.

Tex

[Colin Jay]

I have spoken to a few friends who are bike mechanics and MX/enduro racers and gotten similar mixed comments to those voice here. The guys that I ride reliability trial with (two of which are bike mechanics) generally get more that a season (which is about 50hr) worth of competition out of their engines, without any problems. However, I have spoken with another friend who runs a bike workshop, and he has reported that a lot of the bikes he has worked on have only done in the order of 20 - 30 hr "play racing". I think there could be something the way the bikes are ridden and the maintenance level applied in each case, i.e. the racers look after their bikes while riding and maintain them properly, changing air filters every fuel stop in the reliability trials and fully servicing them after every event, whereas the "play racers" flog them when riding and in general neglect them /ride them until they die, and might only clean the air filter and change the oil when their is nothing better to do.

All that I can say, is it is another reason to love the old technology of my 500 Yamaha's.

CJ

[mx250]

What do you guys suggest?

Personally, I'd like a Yamaha TTR250 if I was buying a "modern" trail/fun bike. A bit lacking in the performance area obviously, but air cooled reliability and the fact they have a kick and electric start makes them pretty attractive to me.

I've heard nothing but good things about them - reliable as a hammer seems to be the general consensus. Yamaha still make them too, so spares (if you need them) should not be a problem.

Used ones turn up on ebay etc quite cheaply from time to time.

Tex

A pity they didn't make a 350-400 version .

The other great 4T trailie is the DRZ400 - they hire them up at Cape York, own them for 12 months, use them abuse them and get rid of them without a prob (or so I've heard )

[Marc.com]

i suppose people will pay to restore that vintage 4 valve reverse cylinder EFI YZ450F in 20 years time......if you can get parts.
Cheers......Mario

Oh the fun part Mario of a new YZ450F is you only have to wait a few hours before having to restore it.