Author Topic: The 'Firsts' of MX History.  (Read 18987 times)

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TooFastTim

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2009, 08:46:56 pm »
Bazza was a top bloke, no doubt about it but he did psych himself into a hole over Roberts.

I never met Sheeney and I would love to have met him. I reckon we could have chewed some fat for many a beer. (I suppose I'd better give Ballington a shout 'cause his number's in the white pages)

Offline GD66

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2009, 10:41:04 pm »
Yeah, good on ya Bill. Fanboy or not, you can't deny that Roberts handed Baz his butt on a plate. And don't worry, I met Sheeney a few times and in fact shared a garage with him for a classic weekend at Eastern Creek, where to his credit he mucked in and changed his own tyres on the Walmsley Manx. But I also saw him withdraw from an 8-lap race that weekend on the fourth lap, when running in 4th spot, because he had to hurry off to the airport to catch a flight....rather doubt he'd have done so if he was LEADING !
 And just ask his long-suffering mechanic Ken Fletcher how much time he spent mending fences in the GP paddock after Bazza's tantrums with officials and other riders. Yes, he was a good guy, but not without his flaws. Try to look outside the MCN viewpoint.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be....

Offline motomaniac

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2009, 11:38:35 pm »


Thats a bit harsh GD66 sure Roberts could ride a motorcycle but as a person hes not worth the steam off the late Barry Sheenes shit  >:(
I will keep my opinion of roberts to myself  but Barry was and always will be an absolute hero to me and an entire generation of fans . Barry was a real bloke with a real natural talent and a born enterupenur  :)No 7 cruley taken from us but will always live on in our hearts .
[/quote]

Thats a bit harsh (and a strange way of keeping your opinion of KR to yourself) . I never meet either of them but I sure miss Sheeneys commentary - a great character for sure . I don't know that much about Roberts but Im sure that he was a very focused guy.He might have a few more fans if he had a bit of Sheenes character in him but the again Sheene might have beat Roberts if he had a bit of Roberts focus and disipline.Both great in my view for the persons and racers they were.Also Kel Carruthers wouldn't have stuck with Roberts if he was an Arsehole of a bloke or if he had messed around like Sceeney used too.

Offline Lozza

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #63 on: December 22, 2009, 12:13:39 am »
 KR was a bit of a character, one such instance was when 125 rider Stefan Prein(sp I'm sure it was him) was sponsored by a German porno mag OKM(back when that meant something), at the GP at Salzburg they dispached one 'Dolly Buster' who was described as having 'infesibly large bussoms'. Word has it that KR was very taken with Ms Dolly's charms especialy after seeing her many 'hidden talents' in his, by now autographed OKM magazine. Something you don't see top team owners doing everyday. Very hard to judge someone by a public persona, sportmen like Allan Moffat loved the 'bad bloke' image.
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mx250

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2009, 07:31:49 am »
Back on the subject; The 'Firsts' of MX History. ;D.

I don't accept Camberley as the first scrambles or MX. First enduro or the first special test maybe. But Camberley wasn't doing laps and there is a clear and dramatic difference between the two. Camberley was a step towards MX but not MX. So are there any other contenders?

What about in Oz. Any contenders? In Oz there were probably some blurred lines between rough short circuits and MX. I think the Cross Roads would meet that description. It would have been rated as either a rough Short Circuit or a smooth MX track. Anyone know what was on the programme or the GCR's?

I have read somewhere over the years that MX originated with the Army in WW2, with Dispatch Riders learning and finessing their skills on training circuits filled with likely onstacles. True, false or was that just the popularising and spreading of an already existing branch of the sport? 


Offline EML

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2009, 09:12:37 am »
My guess is that you're on to something there, Were any "circuit" (off road) events held before the wars or were they all point to point time trials or 'obseved" sections.
My old boss from Mayfairs ( Qld SUzuki importers) Eddie Bailey, told me of the days when they held road type trials around Brisbane with observers on street corners to make sure you didn't cut lanes etc... and timed them to the second back in the fifties.
I like your idea that the war probably used obstacle courses to train riders though and moto cross came on from there as the time scale fits.
In NZ we used to have what was called mini TT, which was held on a flat or slightly rolling grass paddock-as you say a rough flat track or easy scramble-much like pre 68 VMX .

firko

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2009, 09:38:56 am »
The first ever scramble meeting at Farleigh Castle was held on Monday 6th of June 1938. That's the earliest closed circuit scramble I can find after a very short Google. Who can find an earlier event?

mx250

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2009, 09:57:15 am »
Where are our Pommy forum members, and Pommy ex-pats, when ya need them ;D. The first closed circuit MX most probably was in Pommyland ;) :). They whinge like a Pommy with a hangover when you bag them out about their warm beer and sporting prowess. Here's their chance and stony silence :D

TooFastTim

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2009, 10:09:25 am »
I don't accept Camberley as the first scrambles or MX. First enduro or the first special test maybe. But Camberley wasn't doing laps and there is a clear and dramatic difference between the two. Camberley was a step towards MX but not MX. So are there any other contenders?

Depends on your definition of MX. Strictly speaking the Southern Scott wasn't MX as we know it, but more in line with what we would now call hare scrambles.

I'd never heard about the Farleigh Castle event and it is possible that this is the first case of a MX event as we now know them. Popular legend has it that the French watched the Brits scrambling around a field and added some French flair and, voila, MX was born.

Point is that MX and enduros are descended from trials and the Scott trial in particular.

firko

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #69 on: December 22, 2009, 10:53:16 am »
I think that motocross as opposed to point to point scrambles would have become its own entity after WW2 when clubs like the Salop club started running scrambles events at Hawkestone Park and West Wilts Club reformed and it ran its first post war event on April 28th 1946 at Farleigh Castle. The FIM accepted motocross as a sport in 1947 so I think that the sports post war emergence as it's own entity, seperate from trials and grass track and club derived combinations of the two emerged in the imediate post WW2 period. According to what I can find, scrambles/motocross developed pretty quickly after the war with various areas or 'centres' challenged each other to scrambles. As Tim aluded, the Froggies came over and competed at a couple of these meetings and took the concept back to France and christened it Motocross.

Other pointers to the immediate post WW2 birth of MX is the abundant availability of ex military motorcycles and the large amount of bomb damaged land that had become unusable for farming in the short term. One of Hawkstones most famous sections, even today, is the Bomb Hole, named for obvious reasons. If you add to that the large number of returned servicemen looking for some fun after the horrors of war, it seems pretty obvious that motocross/scrambles would succeed.
Below...The Bomb Hole..then and now

« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 11:19:18 am by firko »

TooFastTim

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #70 on: December 22, 2009, 11:11:58 am »
One of Hawkstones most famous sections, even today, is the Bomb Hole, named for obvious reasons.

So too did Brands Hatch have a bomb hole. This was before the metalled surface. At that time BH was a scrambles/MX circuit. My late dad rode there and at Hawkstone.

Offline EML

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2009, 09:36:19 am »
Must have been a bloody big bomb.
I have raced at Reims(Rheims?? Frence champange region with chalk caves) in northern France that is built in a ww1 trench/fort area. Some of the trenches are 20-30 feet deep or more.
and Where are all the Yanks in this mix or don't we have any on this forum? they must have had a similar experience over there.

firko

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2009, 10:30:16 am »
I went to a motocross meeting in Rheims in either '77 or '78 where by pure accident I ran into Terry (brother of Anthony) Gunter and Per Klitland who were racing. There were sidecars on the program so were you there too?  I seem to remember a lot of Poms and Belgians on the program chasing the lucrative prize money that was around in the B level Euro international meetings in those days. Even more coincidentally my American missus ran into one of her old high school mates at the same event. We naturally drank a lot of cheap bubbly during that particular night!

TooFastTim

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2009, 11:04:22 am »
We naturally drank a lot of cheap bubbly during that particular night!

Bet that hurt the following morning.

firko

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Re: The 'Firsts' of MX History.
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2009, 10:32:02 am »
 I found this while looking for something else. It reinforces the Camberley connection and adds to the thought that the immediate post WW2 era saw the beginning of modern motocross. Hopefully it answers a few questions.

 When did Motocross first start?
 
Answer
Motocross is usually said to have begun after World War II, but the sport actually originated in cross-country races known as scrambles in England and North America during the 1920s. It just wasn't called motocross back then.

The first was the so-called Southern Scott Scramble, held on March 29, 1924, over a 2-5-mile cross-country course on Camberly Heath, England. The winner of the 50-mile race was Arthur Sparks with a time of 2 hours, 1 minute, 51 seconds.

In 1926, the Crotona, New York, Motorcycle Club started a similar type of race, but it was called a Tourist Trophy, undoubtedly after the famous Isle of Man road race. It doesn't appear that the Crotona members knew anything about the scrambles that were becoming very popular among motorcyclists in England. However, within a few years cross-country races were being called scrambles in both the United States and Canada.

And sometime between 1924 and 1934, depending on which account you believe, the scramble crossed the English Channel into France. The French came up with the name "motocross," from "motorcycle" and "cross-country," and developed a new, shorter course with man-made obstacles such as jumps.

One of the first major sports events in Europe after World War II was an international team motocross competition hosted by the Netherlands in 1947. Only two other countries, Belgium and Great Britain, took part. The race comprised two heats of eight laps each over a 2-mile course, with team scores based on the times of the three fastest riders. The British team won by just nine seconds over Belgium.

As it turned out, that was the first Motocross des Nations, which has been conducted by the Federation Internationale de Motocyclisme (FIM) since 1949.

Bill Nilsson of Sweden won the first world motocross championship in 1957.

The FIM inaugurated a European individual championship for 500cc displacement in 1952. That became a world championship event in 1957. The 250cc class was added in 1962.

Scrambles were staged in North America throughout the 1930s and immediately after World War II, but the first race referred to as motocross was held in Grafton, Vermont, in 1959. The promoter was a dealer for the German-made Maico, then one of the world's best motocross bikes.

But it was a California dealer for the Husqvarna of Sweden who really made motocross a popular sport in the United States. Edison Dye was an aeronautical engineer and motorcyclist who began organizing motorcycle tours of Europe durin the early 1960s. During one of those tours, Dye saw and fell in love with the Husqvarna. He agreed to become the make's first U. S. distributor and decided that the best way to publicize the bike was to demonstrate it in motocross races.

In the fall of 1966, Dye hired Sweden's Torsten Hallman, the reigning 250cc world champion, to race a Husqvarna in American events. Hallman scored easy victories in several races, including the Canadian Northwest Motocross Championship.

But there wasn't enough motocross racing in the U. S. to get the "Husky" the kind of publicity Dye was looking for, so in 1967 he organized his own series, the Inter-America, better known as the Inter-Am. He brought over several more Europeans to race against Hallman and U. S. scramble riders. The series not only proved popular with existing fans, it created new fans for this kind of motorcycle racing.

At the time, the American Motorcyclist Association wasn't involved in international racing. A very small organization, Motorcycle International Clubs of the United States (MICUS), represented the U. S. in the FIM. Dye's series was sanctioned by MICUS.

In 1970, the AMA joined the FIM. The association's first major move into international competition was the establishment of the Trans-AMA motocross series to compete against Dye's Inter-Am. The Inter-Am was forced out of business in 1971 but Dye continued promoting races within the Trans-Am series until 1974.

Great Britain had dominated the sport for the first two decades, winning 15 of 20 Motocross des Nations championships. Then Belgium took over, winning seven championships from 1969 through 1980. In 1981, a young United States team won the Motocross des Nations by just one point over Great Britain. That victory was generally considered a fluke at the time, but it was just the first in a string of 13 consecutive championships for the U. S.