Vintage Slider Ban

[firko]

Herb.....It's a clubs democratic right to do whatever they want at their own race meetings, I have no problems with that. However, for the life of me I can't understand the reasoning behind this decision. In my forty odd years of interest in dirt track as a spectator, participant, meeting director, scrutineer and everything else in between I've seen hardly any safety situations involving sliders and chookies that warrant even the slightest intervention. To seperate the two into seperate classes goes against the proud traditions of dirt track and seems to me to be a massive attack of over reaction to a "problem" that doesn't really exist. Sliders and chookies have raced together with not a hint of trouble since the early sixties so what was the reasoning that prompted this decision? I'd really like to know.

If I owned a 250 or 125 slider I'd be pretty pissed off if there wasn't enough of them at the meeting to form a class and I was forced to ride in an "all in" slider class with 500 class bikes. Not only would I be being deprived of any chance of being competitive, I'd also be thrown into a far more dangerous situation than the original percieved problem due to the huge performance differential between 125/250 sliders and the big Jawas and Japs.

I know it's a difficult job trying to keep everybody happy but I suspect that changing fifty year old traditions to please a small minority is going to upset more people than it helps. I honestly think that this is a retrograde decision that hasn't been properly thought out.

   

[jimg1au]

herb/firko
the slider races i have seen in the last 6 months have been 500cc and 125cc.there are only 2 i have seen that would be pre75.1x 2v jawa and 1x elstar jap.the others are 1xweslake, 2 x 500ccyamahas and 2x 125 watercooled bikes.the owner and rider of the 2 valve jawa said to me he would like to ride it in the class he rode it in in 1974 as a A grade racer.all this was brought about my restoration of my own pre75 antig which i used to race at nepean from 1974 to 1977.i asked the question as i was told that cliff patton{2007 250cc aust dirt track pre75 champ} could not ride his fathers pre 1975 hagon 250 yamaha at the pre 75 meeting in 2007.the same bike that cliffs dad was australian champ on.these rules drive riders and bikes away from our meetings.

[dirttracker]

hey jim i thought steve croaker won that title on an elsinore.

[jimg1au]

from the ma site
2007 Australian Classic Dirt Track Championship
Pre 1975 Solo 263cc and Over              Pre 1978 Solo 250cc
1. David Gras                                        1. Peter Gower
2. Peter Lee                                           2. Phillip Foster
3. Colin Moody                                      3. David Foster
Pre 1975 Solo                                125cc Evolution 263&over
1. Terry Sayer                                      1. Phillip Foster
2. Michael Sulcs                                   2. Daniel Romeo
3. David Gras                                          3. Ray Stevens
Pre 1975 Solo 250cc                         All Powers Sliders
1. Clifford Patton                                1. Alan Jones
2. Steve Croker                                 2. Mark Foster
3. Stephen Brodie                                3. Ray

[elsie 125]

those results are only the heats,with out the results from the pre 75 250 and 125 finals

[xstracker]

hi jimg , I might not have recognised your point but when we only have had a small turnout of sliders (yes even before the recent decision) we have to cater for the majority of club members. Remember this is only a Club decision . Hope to see more sliders coming out of the sheds as i do really enjoy watching them.

How many of the vintage dirt track community have approached the MNSW Vintage dirt committee with their concerns?? Les Richters from Mainly Maico took enough interest to stand for the committee and whilst the majority of the group is made up of City of Penrith members they are all obliged to review and answer all enquiries. Maybe the rest of people who are involved in this discussion could address their concerns to this group.

Cheers guys keep up the energy as we all have our own views and debate is healthy.

[firko]

Herbie.....I would have thought that because  you only have a small number of sliders, splitting the classes into chookies and sliders would be a retrograde step. I can't believe that too much thought has gone into creating a situation where 125 and 250 sliders are forced to race against 500 bikes. The safety aspect alone is considerable Herb and in your position as a well respected race official surely you can see that by supposedly "fixing" one safety concern, the club has created another even more dangerous situation.
As much as I like the people who made this decision, it's dumb and counter productive. I cannot see one positive aspect of it. Ironically the current Australian Classic Dirt Track Champ Alan Jones, a slider rider of some note, also thinks it's a ridiculous decision and has been quite vocal about it of late.

[micks]

thank`s herd if the committee is not overworked and under paid already (still waiting on payment from MA/MNSW ,as you are too).i would like to take it easy on the new members as we are all volunteer`s and yes i think the committee is here for the good of the sport.
as for the opening title VINTAGE SLIDERS BAN never let the truth get in the way off a good story.
city of penrith have not ban sliders they have given them a class of there own, not once in a round but twice too make up for the other classes riding up. the junior and senior sidecars are treated the same in a round too.i cannot recall whether the juniors solo riders are twice in the round i should take more notice as the futrue of the sport is in their hand`s be it dirt track or road race.             
well yes i am going too use the MOMS and only deal with classic motorcross and dirt track!
classic mx & dt18.2.2 r)sliders class up to 250cc (dirt track events only)
                             s)sliders class over263cc (dirt track events only)
i think this would stop the under 250cc too contest with 500cc unless the penrith club said sliders where unlimited. as per all juniors solo classes riding together is a no-no.
the rules are not clear in the (18.7.1) table of machine and components-(date) where they fit in.e.g specials (after pre 1965 of manufacture) hagon antig etc. this should be address so please put it in writing with proof, to your state body and they will pass it down to the state committee.
as for them riding together we know over history they have but AGAIN in the rules are not clear!
the only rule i could find was in the   dirt track   20.2.1.1 a)may be constructed as either a slider or motorcross type,
this ruling may off not pass down to classic mx & dt.
firko and jim , ask for your help in this problem
there`s view`s are my view`s only and are my view`s only!!!

[jimg1au]

hi
this is the point i was tring to make.
i have a 1974 antig slider 360cc.i can only ride it in the slider class 2 races in 1 round.
i have now bought a dt360 1974. i can ride 251-500 pre 75. open pre75. over 50years. and i belive the same in pre 78 races.so the bike built in the same year dt360 gets 6 races per round were in 1974 when i was riding at nepean the slider could ride in those 6 races but now it can only ride in 2.
over my visits to nepean ther would only be 2 bikes that i have seen that make up the pre75 class in sliders a 500 jap and a 500 jawa. and my 360 would make 3
in the 70s you would see riders turn up with 3 sliders 125 250 and 500.charle edwards is one that comes to mind.he was one of the best riders of his time.
the slider races are ok at nepean dont get me wrong.the weslake, the tt500s,i have one of those as well and the 125s all in slider frames have a good race but i think they should be able to race in the class the fall into.ie 125 in the 125 races tt500 hagons in the pre 78 races the jap/ jawa in the pre 75 class
just my point of view
cheers

[pancho]

gooday, interesting to hear all the animated discource on the ''slider ban'' at cpmcc meetings! i always have a great time at nepean no less than i have had since i first rode there in 1959. i can remember back when a young matt daley road at a big meeting at tivoly[ i think it was ] he left several current champions in his dust and was critisized for taking "weired lines" on the fast corners, that was before sliders were on the local scene ! the concern is not new. i raced a slider as b grader in the sixties and mixed it with chookchasers without to much drama but in those days it soon became the norm for the chookies to be traded in for sliders inthe A&B events because they were not competitive how things have changed ! what has not changed is the problem of some people who have a lot to say but dont say it at meetings. the percieved danger as i see it is not the mixing of capacity classes [these modern 2/ things have a  great power to weight ratio] but i can understand the concerns of some to the different lines in these days of insurance probs. the perception that some people in the front line of organising meetings are making "stupid decisions' is unfair and not nice, every person who bothers to attend a club meeting shares responsibility for those decisions. another thing .... i have never seen a boring meeting at nepean run by penrith even if my bikes stopped ! cheers- wally.

[worms]

sounds alot like it comes down to, as one would say, the changing of the gaurds. if new voleenteers present themselves to committees for the running of clubs, while the so called stalwarts of the sport sit on their hands you wind up with cases of decisions being made that impact on the sport itself. if the members dont want this decision it can easly be resolved at the next meeting by a show of hands. but you must remember the education of committees must come from past committees. just an outside point of view. cheers trev