Fuel tank building question

[Branchy]

Geoff you can buy 1.2mm sheet of 1111 in O condition here. There is a small catch is that you need to buy a  tonne of.it.  Was only $1500 but shipping was the killer  Which is why I never mentioned it.
[1500 that probably would be the price of a nos tank anyway that will end up with the same issues eventually , this thread has made me think outa the square some of the more tricky bits could be ground /milled ,shaped out of billet to a similar thickness then combined with the sheet aluminium mmmmmm ]

[Lozza]

I was racking my brain to think of who purchased this by the tonne and I seem to remember companies that made 'sandwich panel' for cool rooms used it some bought it in O condition so they could roll a ribbed pattern into it. Maybe hunt around the places that make that.

[Michael Moore]

Geoff, argon is far and away the most common gas for TIG here.  Helium is more expensive, plus it floats away so you need more of it.

A good friend who is an ace weldor told me he keeps a small bottle of helium for when the welding heat needs a touch of "nitro" for a difficult job.  But it is only hooked up on those special occasions.  Another one who did a lot of welding reclamation on cylinder heads would use helium for the increased localized heat so he could minimize the heat going into the rest of the casting.

Kent White in Northern California sells (among many great metalworking products) flux for O/A welding of aluminum

http://www.tinmantech.com/html/aluminum_welding_supplies.php

I welded up an aluminum water tank for my TIG cooler using O/A and his flux.  It was .125" plate and I was pleased when done as the roughly 9 feet of welds had zero porosity, which I can't always count on when I TIG.  It wasn't difficult at that thickness but I have more trouble with 16g, when the porosity tends to be a matter of puddles of aluminum falling out of the bead and onto the floor.  I've seen people weld .032" with O/A, but there are weldors and then there are weldors (and then there's me).

Kent has some articles that can be read here:

https://www.tinmantech.com/html/articles.php

I took a 3 day class from him at his shop about 10 years ago.  He really knows his stuff and many of his videos are very helpful.  I've got a couple of his Meco torches and his O/A welding lens, while expensive, does make seeing the puddle through the flux flare a non-issue.

Kent also has a lot of short videos on metalshaping/welding on YouTube.  This one is a good example of why many metalshapers will do alloy panel welding with O/A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF1Srs_e1Aw

cheers,
Michael

[sa63]

3003 is available from action aluminium in qld. In their catalogue anyway. Haven't asked them but will when I'm in there next

[GMC]

Geoff, argon is far and away the most common gas for TIG here.  Helium is more expensive, plus it floats away so you need more of it.

Okay, thanks Michael, seems I was misinformed.

I checked out the Oxy welding of the alloy sheet, the guy is obviously talented. 1.2 mm sheet can take a bit of concentration to weld.

Don’t think I will be in a hurry to learn it myself though, can’t see myself welding up alloy swingarms with the oxy.
I have heard stories of people getting around on bikes be means of peddles, can’t imagine why anyone would want to though

Also the modern square wave TIG has benefits of ‘cleaning’ the material making it easier to weld shitty castings etc.

One good comment was what would happen with a TIG weld if it was annealed afterwards as the oxy would have a self annealing effect while welding. I will have to give it a go one day to find out.

[Michael Moore]

Geoff, aluminum O/A doesn't make much sense to me for anything but bodywork, unless that's the only welding kit you've got falling to hand.  There are good reasons why they invented TIG and it has so many positive features (though price is often not one of them).  I've got a Miller 250DX and it is usually my first choice if I need to weld something.  But O/A does have a niche with the panel beaters.

Kent was a restorer at the Harrah Auto Museum and I think one of the cars he did there took overall honors at the Pebble Beach concours one year.  He knows his stuff, and he has put a lot of effort and thought into the tools he's developed.

One of the guys in the class I took from Kent had a hot rod shop in the midwest.  He was having a horrible time with O/A alloy welding until he mentioned that he'd left his reading glasses at the hotel.  I loaned him my goggles with the magnifiers in them and he immediately began welding .062" sheet as though he'd been doing it for years.  It was pretty disheartening for those of use who were struggling. 

I once got to try using a (large) torch running oxy/hydrogen and that seemed to be a big help.  The O/H flame is cooler and it was easier to avoid overheating the metal.

As you say the broader HAZ on O/A keeps things workable which is important when there's going to be more pounding/rolling/planishing/bending being done after welding.  When done by the right hands it also can be a very speedy weld vs TIG.

Every pushbike I've ridden has always been grossly underpowered. 

cheers,
Michael

[yamaico]

Before I got my TIG welder (thanks Firko) I did all my aluminium welding with oxy acetylene. The advantage of using O/A, in my experience, was that you could just lift off a little when the weld area started getting too hot, whereas with the old choke style TIG welder you actually had to stop the weld and readjust the choke (no foot or hand control on those old models). I welded thin plate with mine as I have a colt system that goes down to a #6 tip that can be regulated down to a very soft flame (also used for expansion chambers). I used a slightly carburising flame with the correct flux and as Michael points out, the correct lenses in the welding goggles. It is so much easier with those lenses as there is virtually no flare and the puddle is easily distinguishable. I've welded fuel tanks, rims, silencers, cylinder and head fins that are all still in service with no apparent problems.

[Speed]

Just my two cent worth.  I have used 5005 H34, 1.5mm or 1.6mm in the past with good success.
It's easy to shape and It welds great.   

[Mike52]

Did this in 81/82 , never had a clue but it worked well and never leaked.

[Lozza]

Complex shapes like fuel tanks especialy after they are closed  that flux is complete bitch to get off.

[Branchy]

it seems the more enquiries i make about product 5005  @ 1.5 mm will be the choice as to it being easlily accessable and very affordable , a great tip from huskibul about the plastic used on the front of shirt boxes for templates , it cut easy bends into shaped you can fold it and clear to mark on . the project begins

[Speed]

To make a pattern I use, high strength fiber tape. First I use green masking tape.  The type spray painters use.
I put it on, then the fiber tape in a crossing pattern.  Remove it with a scalpel. Then I hit the sticky side with talcum powder to take the sticky away.   If you are in Melbourne you can inbox me and you're welcome to come around. I still have some green tape and I think I still have some fiber tape.  You could try.

[GMC]

1.5mm will bend easy for you, you should be able to push it over some water pipe or similar to make a radius bend.

The tank I made was designed with CAD*


* Cardboard Aided Design