Messages

1

British (BSA, Greeves, Triumph etc) / Re: Ti BSA dirt test

« on: January 08, 2012, 03:13:17 am »

Chassis eligibility changes to make it easier to get into pre '65?? Can't wait to see that. The Classic Motocross Commission excludes perfectly good machines from the pre '65 class (B40 sidepoint and all B44's) and then make "chassis changes" to make it easier? What a crock! Add the B40 and B44 to your list Firko with max capacity of 441cc (plus acceptable overbores) and no methanol and then you'll keep them in the pack.  Entry level machines and numbers in the classes is what it is about. Both the B40 and B44 are perfect "cheap" examples of this..... but the CMC just don't get it ....and the rest of the world does? The Boofhead ego comment stands!

2

British (BSA, Greeves, Triumph etc) / Re: Ti BSA dirt test

« on: January 06, 2012, 03:31:55 pm »

Suzi211 should be able to give us the details.
Sidepoint covers are not allowed pre'65 (for B40). This was the reason for the protest of a B40 at the 2009 Nationals in Queensland being upheld. Apparently even though the factory produced sand cast side point covers for Jeff Smith for the 64 season to go on his 420cc B40, and even though they had them on the prototype B44 GP Victor at the '64 Earls Court show, you are not allowed to copy them!? I thought that is what building a replica is all about - copying what was raced at that particular time?
Am I now shit stirring? Maybe, because MA made a very bad decision to the detriment of the pre'65 class in general and just do not want to admit it. Boofhead egos!

3

eBay Finds / Re: b40

« on: January 06, 2012, 03:15:58 pm »

No good for pre '65 in Oz. Sidecover points are a no-go. Must have distributor apparently.

4

Competition / Re: Nationals split: pre-75 or pre-78?

« on: May 28, 2010, 07:23:24 pm »

I think most of the pro pre'78 people are missing the point of the discussion in regards to the pre'75 club in WA. The suggestions made on what we do and have done over the past 15 years has proven what can be done to foster this class. The ideas have been presented to try and show who it can be done. All the other states have doen it differently. Fair enough,. But look at the consequences now. Not a hell of a lot of vision there - oh, except for predicting the demise of pre'75 and hailing pre'90 and those that "relate to it" as the saviours of "our sport". Give me a break. If another person gets on here and makes this prediction, who is not currently on the committee of a club promoting Vintage MX, I'll spew over my keyboard.

This cut-off is purely to do with suspension - nothing else. Track damage allegations aside, the idea is to have all of the bikes complying with the simple 7 and 4 rule (including sidecars) - real vintage MX. Everyone is competing on an equal suspension basis. And, like it or lump it, this is what you will have to ride in this club. Young or old you are riding machines of the same supension travel.

If the club proposed to bring in the pre'78 class to race, what do you think most people would go out and source - that's right, a pre'78 bike. Why? - cause they are just more plush to ride. Simple. The pre'75 bikes would be ridden less for the easier to ride pre '78 machines. This is what the WA pre'85 club has being set-up to cater for - the longer travel machines. People can belong to both clubs and enjoy the benefits of both eras in the one state - perfect.

This argument for the suspension cut-off from the VMXWA club was based upon some very sound thinking on the part of the foundation members and continues with the current membership. If this same thinking was used in other parts of the country, I doubt we would be having this discussion. It is not the members of the VMXWA club who have been shortsighted...

5

Competition / Re: Nationals split: pre-75 or pre-78?

« on: May 27, 2010, 11:00:38 am »

For David#46. Good to hear the Classic Scramble club is actively promoting and racing pre'75. I just wonder how your racing days are organised? Whether you race for points leading to trophies, or simply ride for the pleasure and a chance for a race win?

If you are racing for points to achieve a gong then this means that the usual 10% of the riders will be winning the usual 80% of the trophies. This does not promote willing participation from the other 90% of the members who will win nothing, and usually get roosted in the process. Promoting participation through riding for the fun of it only, and grading riders on their ability (not by the capacity of their machines), ensures that riders are happy competing with their peers of similar speed, have a good race without getting carried away, and perhaps a win. Everyone likes to have a win eventually.

This race attitude also allows for machine sharing at a club day. This is how I was introduced to the pleasures of early pommy 4 strokes and R40. Now I'm hooked. Competitors are not concerned at losing points if they lend their machine to a fellow competitor and they get the pleasure of riding something different. The older machines race alongside the "modern" machines. It is only the riders ability that is considered.

Different race meetings have a particular feature race class - these being pre-65, pre'70, Pommy, Euro trash, etc. It is a great reason to bring out the older rarer machines and share the love.

This is how to encourage participation at a club level - based upon the clubs chosen era (7 and 4) and race for no gongs. Strong clubs of their chosen era means that there is a larger pool of riders to attend National titles for that era.

6

Competition / Re: Nationals split: pre-75 or pre-78?

« on: May 26, 2010, 08:18:24 pm »

On the contrary Firko. The WA model for running a VMX club shows what can happen to "promote" the sport. The club did have a good hard look at the whole picture and realised that to retain the older classes and ensure that they survive is to restrict the machines to the suspension cut-off. The result - healthy pre-75 numbers.

East coast clubs have missed the boat and are now trying to make the split to satisfy a justification to get the numbers required to make it "financially viable".

If you are really serious about the future of the older classes - you'd be out there riding with them! Wasn't there a pre'75 register being set-up in NSW to rally these machines together? Is there a club actively promoting the pre'75 classes in Oz besides WA?

7

Competition / Re: Nationals split: pre-75 or pre-78?

« on: May 25, 2010, 07:41:23 pm »

You would get that at every race meeting on the west coast if you wanted Mark.

The only futureproofing you need to consider when discussing historic racing is to ensure that you give the riders of these historic machines a reason to compete. Competing with machines of the same suspension travel is a very simple solution. After all, motocross through the 70's and 80's was all to do with the "suspension revolution". This is the reason for the period cut-off concept in the first place. Make 'em happy at the club level and they they carry on riding. Promote this at the club level and you will continue to grow the numbers in their preferred classes.

It is not the people who "relate" to the class of racing that the "future" of the sport relies upon. Futureproofing vintage motocross relies on giving the average Joe motocrosser an enjoyable thrill on relatively cheap low tech machinery - just like the good-ol'-days. He then gets his family involved and also tells his mates to get involved and on it grows. I never rode a 60's pommy 4 stroke till introduced at a come-and-try club day, didn't know they existed, but now I wouldn't ride anything else - because it is just great fun.   

What has this got to do with this forum discussion focussed purely at the National level - the pinnacle of the "racing" scene? When the classes are split the opportunities for more rides over the Nationals weekend will mean that more people will be attracted to it. The more people riding in the same classes in the various states means that there are more people that may wish to attend a Nationals dedicated to their particular era of pleasure. A healthy dedicated club scene can only mean an improved attendance at National titles.

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Competition / Re: Nationals split: pre-75 or pre-78?

« on: May 22, 2010, 07:32:43 pm »

The suspension travel limitation is the only way to divide the requirements for a nationals.
pre 65, pre70 and pre75 will flourish in their 7 and 4 suspendered machines.

Pre 78, pre 80 (maybe) and pre 85 will also flourish with their equally suspendered requirements.

This was realised a long time ago by the foundation committeee of the VMXWA club. If you restrict the eligible machines to the original vintage concept of 7 and 4 (as per the GCR's) then there is no need to consider the later machines. By considering and allowing the longer travel mahines, you make it easier for people to ride. The easier it is, the more people will go for it, therefore relegating the less suspendered brothers to the shed.

Sure this is based on club level competition, but the fact remains - the success of this club has revolved around this concept that has seen the membership continually grow over the last 15 years to a membership approaching 150.

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British (BSA, Greeves, Triumph etc) / Re: bsa b44 smoke problem HELP

« on: May 21, 2010, 02:34:20 pm »

As above. Use a 3 piece oil ring and the problem will be solved.

10

Competition / Re: Nationals split: pre-75 or pre-78?

« on: May 20, 2010, 02:23:20 pm »

What a load!

Pre '75 is for machines with 7" and 4" travel. This includes pre '60, pre '65, pre '70 and pre '75. Long travel machines (over 7 and 4) do not belong in this era.

The split of eras is simply defined by the suspension travel limitations.



 

11

Competition / Re: Motorcycling Australia Feedback

« on: July 09, 2009, 06:38:12 pm »

What a joke.
The Classic Motocross Commission put forward a recommendation and the board simply knocks it on the head.
What is the CMC there for? Isn't it their job to interpret what the VMX community want from their sport and that of the organising body and recommend changes? The MA piggys with their noses in the trough are a waste of time.
And what is this. MA are going to co-sponsor a Nationals Titles event for next year?
Where was the sponsorship support from MA for the last 18 or so years, or this year? My previous comment still stands.

12

Competition / Re: Last WA event for 2008

« on: November 10, 2008, 02:20:15 pm »

The club is still attending.
Call president Pete on 0418915523 and put your name down for the demonstration ride.

13

General Discussion / Re: Arai helmets

« on: October 31, 2008, 01:01:04 pm »

Pal and Panther has some.

14

Competition / Re: QVMX go Pre '90

« on: October 28, 2008, 12:43:03 am »

If a particular club in Oz wants to do pre '90, so what. If it is what the membership wants, then that's what it will be. Does that decision influence my thinking on the future of Vintage motocross? Nope. Everyone is so worried about the "future" of "the sport" and think they have the answers. They don't. And those that claim they do, are they concerned with the sports future or trying to satisfy their own ends? Dunno, don't care. I remember some years ago the QVMX club were considering whether to allow the pre '85 bikes to run in the club. I wrote to a Mr Black (I think) who was asking for comment so I wrote and told him how the WA guys were running their club (pre '75 only, no trophies, etc.) and that perhaps the decision to include post '75 would not be in the best interests of pre '75. I never did here back from him.

I'm just glad that I live in WA where the local club knows the real meaning of Vintage motocross racing - preserving an important MX era. That support continues to grow each year. The club now has 175 members with 125 of them riding at our annual club event at Wandering this year. They don't race for gongs or rewards, only the satisfaction of racing against mates, grouped in classes of the same ability. The emphasis is on participation. Always has, always will be. Everyone from age 18 to 80 rides in this club and they all ride with the same passion and enthusiasm. The club is so passionate that a few members and the club paid for Jiri Starec and Jasroslav Falta to come and have a ride at Wandering and then again at Narrogin. There are no trophy hunters getting their ambition mixed up with their ability, so the racing, though spirited, is not a do-or-die affair. We all (most of us that is) have to go to work the next day. The Nationals is where the riders go to get their competition thrills and from past history, riders from WA have always supported the Nationals with the same passion werever they may be in Oz.

The original committee of the VMXWA club established early in clubs life that the only threat to the pre '75 club was to introduce the later classes. This was written into the club constitution and they were spot on. Quite simply, the later model bikes are just plain easier to ride and given a choice we all like things to be easy. The older bikes will then be simply left in the shed. The club is then committed to the never ending treadmill of updating eras - that of including more and more modern machines (as they are already 20 years old type logic!). You've missed the point if you think like that. 

Perhaps the issue is that on the East coast there are not enough Vintage only clubs? Are the events mainly run by promoting clubs? I this is the case then there emphasis is on maximising numbers - therefore including as many eras in this VMX scene is the motivation. Was there not a club being formed in NSW just for pre '75? The tyranny of distance to tracks (and the availability of tracks) may be an influence as to why this single era club concept is too hard to get off the ground?

Another issue is that of the MA Classic MX commission getting hold of the idea and putting pre '90 into the GCR's. Then any club that wanted to run a Classic Motocross Nationals would have to run all classes of Classic Motocross - from pre' 60 through to pre '90. All on the one track?! Even now anyone wanting to run the Nationals "shall" run all classes as per GCR's. I've always thought that the Nationals should be split up into pre '75 and post '75 - but that is another topic for discussion.

There were several mentions of the VMXWA club in this post, hence my interest. I don't think that they have all the answers to the question of running a successful pre '75 club, but I think they are running pretty well at the moment - in 2010 it will the clubs 15th anniversary. The question was also asked "where will they be in 10 years time"? I reckon in 10 years time the VMXWA club will be doing exactly what it is doing now, having fun on old bikes - pre '75 with 7" and 4" of travel (unless some bright spark wants to start to include pre '85 bikes).

And, if this site is still going, I reckon there'll be an ongoing debate about including 2000 model bikes in this "Vintage' Motocross sport ...."because that's what I relate to"  or "I can't get a piston for my 92 YZ450". Sorry for the length of this post. Good luck.

15

Yamaha / Re: CDI Ignition for GT80

« on: September 25, 2008, 02:19:08 pm »

Bewdy. Cheers Tim.