OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: bigk on December 03, 2020, 06:51:46 AM

Title: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 03, 2020, 06:51:46 AM
The 2021 MoMS are now available on line (chapter 10 is relevant for Classic MX). Check out the new Post Classic classes (Period 20 & Revolution), then get yourselves exited & bikes prepared for the Classic Nationals (July 9/10/11) followed by the Post Classic Nationals 1 week later (July 16/17/18), both to be held at Nowra Motoplex, N.S.W, on purpose built tracks. A number of inaugural (very first) Australian champions will be crowned over both events in new title classes, so something to strive for. Put these dates on the "not to be missed" list & get ready to turn some dirt! Bring it on....
K
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Ted on December 03, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
So there is no Evolution 4T only?
What is Revolution?
I can’t find either in the 2021 classes
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: sleepy on December 03, 2020, 06:37:47 PM
Looks like Revolution is the same as Period 20 except revolution can be cobbled together from period bits. Not a very smart idea in my opinion as you would need to build a new bike every year to keep current. Good for the bike resto guy's I guess. I couldn't see the 4 stroke Evo either Ted. 
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 04, 2020, 06:55:24 AM
There is Evolution 4 stroke Ted which will be in the Classics as an Australian title for the very first time for 2021. It was due to be in the 2021 MoMS, however is still in the 2nd year of it's 2 year trial due to no Nationals this year because of Covid, all part of due process. It will be written into the supp regs as a National title class & the inaugural Evolution 4 stroke open all powers champion will be crowned in Nowra, July 2021. We fully expect Evolution 4 stroke open all powers to be written in the 2022 MoMS after the completion of a highly successful 2 year trial. The first year at Harrisville (2019) as a support class was very well supported with over 20 bikes on the start grid. We fully expect that number to markedly increase with the class being an Australian title class for 2021 & almost certainly, beyond.
K
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 04, 2020, 07:06:34 AM
Revolution class is a "catch all" class designed as a class for modified/non compliant bikes to compete in rather than go back on the trailer. Those bikes are being built (they exist now) as evidenced by the very high number of non compliant pre'95 bikes presented at the 2019 Post Classic Nationals. Revolution is listed in the MoMS as a general competition class, it is NOT an Australian title class for 2021, although may become so in the future. It will be offered as a support class for the 2021 Post Classic nationals.
Period 20 is a rolling 20 year old class which self perpetuates as the years go by. For the 2021 season it allows up to 2001 model bikes to compete. It is an Australian title class & 3 inaugural Period 20 Australian champions will be crowned in their relevant capacities at Nowra, 2021.
K
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Ted on December 04, 2020, 07:57:15 AM
Michael, can you confirm if Evolution and Pre 75 will be stand alone capacity classes and not All In next year?
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 04, 2020, 09:30:08 AM
I can't confirm as we haven't seen the supp regs yet, sorry Ted. The hosting club has the option to run them either way, it's up to them as to which option they feel will best suit the event.
K
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: sleepy on December 04, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Revolution class is a "catch all" class designed as a class for modified/non compliant bikes to compete in rather than go back on the trailer. Those bikes are being built (they exist now) as evidenced by the very high number of non compliant pre'95 bikes presented at the 2019 Post Classic Nationals. Revolution is listed in the MoMS as a general competition class, it is NOT an Australian title class for 2021, although may become so in the future. It will be offered as a support class for the 2021 Post Classic nationals.
Period 20 is a rolling 20 year old class which self perpetuates as the years go by. For the 2021 season it allows up to 2001 model bikes to compete. It is an Australian title class & 3 inaugural Period 20 Australian champions will be crowned in their relevant capacities at Nowra, 2021.
K

The rules still say for Revolution major parts must be 20 years old so how is that different to Period 20? Do Period 20 bikes have to be as they came from the factory and not a mix of 20 year old parts?
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Ted on December 04, 2020, 03:33:23 PM
Was glad you asked that Sleepy. It’s got me buggered
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Momus on December 04, 2020, 07:08:28 PM
Doesn't Revolution allow me to do something like fit 2000 model USD forks and a rear disc to my '84 CR500?
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: sleepy on December 04, 2020, 07:38:22 PM
Doesn't Revolution allow me to do something like fit 2000 model USD forks and a rear disc to my '84 CR500?

Wouldn't you be be able to do that and ride it in Period 20 anyway. Can't be pre85 anymore.
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Momus on December 05, 2020, 01:05:38 AM
It's a head scratch from me.

In Classic MX  I can ride my Pre78 bike in Evo.
I can't (with exceptions for carry overs) ride my Pre75 bike in Pre 78 because the MOMS declares only '75. 76, 77 models are elegible for Pre78.


In Post Classic my understanding was that you could always ride up. So Pre 85 in any other class so long as the capacity was OK.
The Revolution category makes sense for built bikes -like Evolution in Classic MX- but Period 20 seems to suggest that, like Pre78, it is a model year restricted.

I better print out the rules and have a read.
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 05, 2020, 08:19:06 AM
Period 20 is pretty self explanatory, bikes & parts 20 years old or older, yes you can mix & match within the period just as you can with all classes. Revolution is for 20 year old or older bikes with the option to fit non period (later) parts. For example if a 2001 KTM 250SX is presented in standard condition it's a period 20 bike (letter P on the race plates). If the same 2001 KTM 250SX turns up fitted with cone valve forks & Trax shock, then it's a Revolution class bike. If it's presented as Revolution class (letter R on the race plates), all good. If it's presented as Period 20, the rider will be asked to change the letter P to an R & be bumped into Revolution class. Revolution class has evolved as these bikes already exist, there were LOTS of bikes fitted with current YZF/CRF/Ohlins forks/front ends & presented as pre'90/'95 bikes at the 2019 PC Nationals. Those bikes are no longer "cheat" bikes as there is now a class for them to compete in. It also preserves the earlier classes as being period correct with now a class for non period correct bikes in which to compete (no one has to put their bike on the trailer).
There's no reason you can't ride your Period 20 bike in Revolution class if you want more seat time, so benefits all round.
K
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: sleepy on December 05, 2020, 10:00:36 AM
Period 20 is pretty self explanatory, bikes & parts 20 years old or older, yes you can mix & match within the period just as you can with all classes. Revolution is for 20 year old or older bikes with the option to fit non period (later) parts. For example if a 2001 KTM 250SX is presented in standard condition it's a period 20 bike (letter P on the race plates). If the same 2001 KTM 250SX turns up fitted with cone valve forks & Trax shock, then it's a Revolution class bike. If it's presented as Revolution class (letter R on the race plates), all good. If it's presented as Period 20, the rider will be asked to change the letter P to an R & be bumped into Revolution class. Revolution class has evolved as these bikes already exist, there were LOTS of bikes fitted with current YZF/CRF/Ohlins forks/front ends & presented as pre'90/'95 bikes at the 2019 PC Nationals. Those bikes are no longer "cheat" bikes as there is now a class for them to compete in. It also preserves the earlier classes as being period correct with now a class for non period correct bikes in which to compete (no one has to put their bike on the trailer).
There's no reason you can't ride your Period 20 bike in Revolution class if you want more seat time, so benefits all round.
K

So your saying that Revolution bikes are free to use non-major components form outside the 20 year period and from what I see from the list that would be forks, brakes, wheels and shocks.
Still don't like the Period 20 thing as it will kill the resale for restored P20 bikes as the next year no one will want the obsolete model when next years bike is deemed to be better. With all other classes if you build as mentioned by Momus an 84 CR500 it will always be the gun bike in Pre85 and in 20 years time it will still be worth something but who will want a period 20 bike in 20 years times when it has to race against 20 year younger bikes.
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: supersenior 50 on December 05, 2020, 10:40:54 AM
The rules are able to be updated as has always been the case. If in a few years there is an issue with Period 20 (say a 1996 model) becoming too outdated someone could submit a proposal that a Pre2005 Class be introduced, If accepted it would stand alone and Period 20 would continue as defined. Your point re people wanting the latest model compliant with the class has always been the case but a large number also ride bikes not considered to be the ultimate for their era. Many choose because of nostalgia, cost, etc rather than the perceive latest and greatest. As Mick says these P20 and REVolution bikes are out there now being ridden in Pre95. Clubs have been unable or unwilling to control this. These rules combined with tightening eligibility criterior will hopefully stabilise Pre85/90/95 and give what have been referred to as cheaters a legit class.
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 05, 2020, 05:31:10 PM
Plenty of people ride/race bikes which aren't the latest in the period they choose to compete in (they're not all 1984 models in the pre'85 classes), most have some sort of personal connection to their machine of choice & I can't see P20 being any different. For example, my first Husaberg was a 2001 model which is what I now have for P20, it's pure coincidence that it's the latest allowed for P20 in 2021, but that wasn't even a consideration & I would not have considered getting one without the advent of a class to ride it in. I think the opposite as far as values go, any model in the P20 class (1995-2001 for 2021 season) might now be considered something more than a paddock basher & worth saving. The new classes open up avenues for new bikes & riders which can only be a good thing for the future of the sport.
K
 
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Ted on December 06, 2020, 10:59:57 PM
These new classes have enabled any Evo bike to now use 2001 components.
Welcome to SEXMAX , 6 years in the making
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 07, 2020, 07:35:08 AM
How do get that Ted? How many 2001 bikes are air cooled, drum brake  no linkage?
K
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Ted on December 07, 2020, 08:46:16 PM
Probably not many but that’s beside the point.
Take your pick from the available legal components for Evolution Class 2021

AIR COOLED MOTORS
CR 450, 480, 500
YZ 400, 465, 490, 500
RM 400, 465, 500
KX 500
XR 500, 600, 630
TT 600
TC 510
ATK 605
MC 490
KTM 500

DRUM BRAKES
any DUAL Twin leading brakes set up
any SINGLE leading brake set up

NON LINKAGE
2001 Husaberg FC frame, seat, tank, fork, PDS shock
KTM SX / EXC frame, seat , tank, fork, PDS shock

In 2002 it advances forward again, 03,04,05 etc etc.

A reasonable thinking person should have jerried  to the fact that when Evo was moved backwards to the Classic Era all reference of Post Classic component availability should also have been removed.






Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: 211 on December 07, 2020, 09:41:13 PM
so glad that I dont give a F%$^ anymore and my 2001 KX is legal next year
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 08, 2020, 06:59:47 AM
Ted, while technically a PDS frame is now legal for Evolution being a non linkage frame from the period & yes you could probably get an air cooled engine & drum front end on it within the rules, please explain how you can get a drum brake rear wheel to work without modifications to either the frame or swingarm, which is outside the rules?
I'll re-issue my challenge from a few years ago: Build the "Sexmax" if you're so inclined & present it for scrutineering. If I'm the scrutineer & it's correct as per the rule book, I'll have no issues allowing it. If on the other hand it's not rule correct, you guys have to cop it on the chin & put this nonsense to bed.
K
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Wasp on December 08, 2020, 10:58:14 AM

Period 20 is a rolling 20 year old class which self perpetuates as the years go by. For the 2021 season it allows up to 2001 model bikes to compete. It is an Australian title class & 3 inaugural Period 20 Australian champions will be crowned in their relevant capacities at Nowra, 2021.
K

20 Champions, 60 Trophies, a lot of shiny hardware and a long presentation. ;)
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: supersenior 50 on December 08, 2020, 01:19:51 PM
Still a lot less classes than Classic, and that works well.
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Ted on December 08, 2020, 08:34:58 PM
Ted, while technically a PDS frame is now legal for Evolution being a non linkage frame from the period & yes you could probably get an air cooled engine & drum front end on it within the rules, please explain how you can get a drum brake rear wheel to work without modifications to either the frame or swingarm, which is outside the rules?
I'll re-issue my challenge from a few years ago: Build the "Sexmax" if you're so inclined & present it for scrutineering. If I'm the scrutineer & it's correct as per the rule book, I'll have no issues allowing it. If on the other hand it's not rule correct, you guys have to cop it on the chin & put this nonsense to bed.
K

Modifying a frame or swingarm is not “outside the rules” as long as what you are modifying is made up of componetry from a model that fits entirely within the cutoff year of manufacture, which, now, happens to be 2001. What you are actually modifying is a “era legal model” and componetry which is permissible.

The rules clearly state “ Modifying LATER equipment to comply will not be allowed “

There is not one piece of equipment on a 2001 machine that falls into the “ later equipment “ barrow and is free to modify how one pleases.

Fitting the wheel is too easy????????
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 09, 2020, 06:52:02 AM
The fact in your example is that you'd be modifying a disc brake swingarm to accept drum brakes which is outside the rules, just like you can't modify a set of disc brake forks to accept drum brakes. Go, ahead & build the Sexmax & let's see where it goes.
K
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Dungar Pilot on December 09, 2020, 08:29:51 AM
Hi All,
The fact in your example is that you'd be modifying a disc brake swingarm to accept drum brakes which is outside the rules, just like you can't modify a set of disc brake forks to accept drum brakes. Go, ahead & build the Sexmax & let's see where it goes.
K
After following this thread since the start as I find rule interpretation fascinating, I just want to say that I am sitting on the fence and have no agenda at all. However curiosity gets the better of me and I am now wondering what exactly is a SEXMAX?

Is it a Myth?

Is it something that only comes up around campfires?

Has anyone actually seen one?

Is it an acronym?

Is it a pseudinym?

Is it something that has existed before?

Will they go into production?

Is it going to be readily available?

Is anyone else getting one?

Just asking because I think I want one?

Do we get a choice of colours?

Will I look good on one?
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: sleepy on December 09, 2020, 10:36:24 AM
Ted, while technically a PDS frame is now legal for Evolution being a non linkage frame from the period & yes you could probably get an air cooled engine & drum front end on it within the rules, please explain how you can get a drum brake rear wheel to work without modifications to either the frame or swingarm, which is outside the rules?
I'll re-issue my challenge from a few years ago: Build the "Sexmax" if you're so inclined & present it for scrutineering. If I'm the scrutineer & it's correct as per the rule book, I'll have no issues allowing it. If on the other hand it's not rule correct, you guys have to cop it on the chin & put this nonsense to bed.
K

Modifying a frame or swingarm is not “outside the rules” as long as what you are modifying is made up of componetry from a model that fits entirely within the cutoff year of manufacture, which, now, happens to be 2001. What you are actually modifying is a “era legal model” and componetry which is permissible.

The rules clearly state “ Modifying LATER equipment to comply will not be allowed “

There is not one piece of equipment on a 2001 machine that falls into the “ later equipment “ barrow and is free to modify how one pleases.

Fitting the wheel is too easy????????

In the case of EVO bikes anything that is Disc brake, water cooled or mono is later equipment as the class is technology based and not year model based. That means that everything on almost all 2001 models is later equipment as the definition of later is that it comes after something and in Evo the something is the technology and not a point in time.
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Ted on December 09, 2020, 09:00:42 PM
The fact in your example is that you'd be modifying a disc brake swingarm to accept drum brakes which is outside the rules, just like you can't modify a set of disc brake forks to accept drum brakes. Go, ahead & build the Sexmax & let's see where it goes.
K

Is it just your opinion that modifying a disc equipped fork or swingarm is illegal because that’s not what the rules state. There is not one reference to disc brake conversions whatsoever being legal or illegal in the rule book for Evolution class.


Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 10, 2020, 06:47:12 AM
No Ted, it's your opinion that you can modify non drum brake, air cooled or no linkage components to comply with the Evolution rules which is incorrect on all counts.
K
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: bigk on December 10, 2020, 08:37:49 AM
Dungar Pilot's questions got me intrigued, so I did some research.

From the Oxford dictionary: Sexmax: A fable worthy of Aesop or a tale from the brothers Grimm. Catergorised with the Yetti, Loch Ness Monster & El Chupacabra.

From the latest edition of Roget's Theasaurus: Sexmax: Fake news.
K
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: Butcher on December 13, 2020, 08:16:57 PM
Am I in a time warp? This is the same shit that went on years ago. This is the same "rules interpretation" discusion that turned me off the vmx scene and i joined VTR. Same reason hunter classics club will do well. DIRT BIKE FUN
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: skypig on December 14, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Am I in a time warp? This is the same shit that went on years ago. This is the same "rules interpretation" discusion that turned me off the vmx scene and i joined VTR. Same reason hunter classics club will do well. DIRT BIKE FUN

It doesn’t seem as bad in the Historic Road Racing scene.
I think one reason is; people would feel foolish saying: “He only beat me because his fairing isn’t an accurate shape.”
They seem extremely interested in people lining up, racing, and having a good time. (I’m still on a high from the QLD Historic Champs at Warwick.)

If someone cuts the water jacket off, welds fins on, and fits drum brake wheels to a 2001 KTM, then they deserve a trophy - maybe “Idiot of the meeting”, “Desperate Dan memorial award”?
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: supersenior 50 on December 22, 2020, 01:40:36 PM
Hopefully no one's that dumb. That 2001 KTM fits straight into Period 20 standard
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: skypig on December 22, 2020, 07:34:18 PM
I meant if they were trying to make some sort of ultimate “EVO” class bike.
Title: Re: 2021 MoMS
Post by: supersenior 50 on December 22, 2020, 10:55:16 PM
In Evolution there's that catch all phrase "later components modified to comply are not allowed" or words to that effect. There's been talk about how to circumvent the Evolution rules for years but in reality there's very little problem.
Problem child is Pre95.However now with a class, Period20, for the non compliant bikes and the tightened eligibility rules to protect the kosher Pre95 bikes hopefully that will settle down.
If someone wants to go bananas check out REVolution, but if that doesn't fit then its Modern.