OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: czeck on September 23, 2009, 05:32:08 pm
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Are we still on for the Lakes at the end of October
Has Lake G got a track licence for the last meeting in November
Rgds
Carl
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Carl,
Lakes is a definite goer for the 24th & 25th of October. Usual format with practice on the Saturday and 2 rounds of normal HEAVEN racing on the Sunday. New members encouraged to come and try it out. We are trying to organise a meal for the Saturday night and possibly some movies for those interested. Cost of the meal will be approx $25 per head and we will need numbers in advance, so I will get the flyer out for this early next week.
As for Lake Glenbawn, I think that they still have the track licensed but I shall give Leon a call and confirm that this round is a goer for November. Cheers.
Dan
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Hi Dan
Any news on what's happening at Lakes for meals, camping etc.
Cheers
Shaun #23
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Shaun,
Camping at the track is OK. There are showers, toilets etc on site. At this stage there looks like there will be a two course meal on the Saturday night for approx $25 per head. I shall know more in a couple of days and keep you posted. Cheers.
Dan
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Dan,
Any confirmation on track licencing at Glenbawn yet?
Thanks Damo
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Damo,
I shall chase Leon Wood up tonight and get back to you. Cheers
Dan
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All,
Spoke with Leon Wood from the Upper Hunter Club this evening and all is good for our last round at Glenbawn in November, so start making plans guys for the 21st & 22nd of November last round for the year. If you wish to trial the track before hand, the Upper Hunter Club is running a race meet at the track on Sunday 1st November. The track shall be well prepped and inside word is that it will be better than ever due to some track work and watering. So get set for the last flurry of points on offer and also the AGM and election of new committee for 2010.
Dan
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Sounds great Dan.
Do yourself a favour guy's and get to these last two rounds at great tracks that suit all era bikes. And help Therese and Don out by getting entries in as soon as possible.
http://www.heaven-vintagemx.com/forms/RACE_ENTRY_FORM.pdf
Cheers
Shaun #23
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Hey Dan
What's with the Heaven website, does someone want me to take care of it, I could get a new one built and get it maintained if no one has the time.
I would be happy to pay for the rebuild if the club pays to maintain it.
Also, Lets make that last round a big one. Everybody enter, please!
I don't care how many rounds there is. I can't get enough.
Any one wants to come to Luee this weekend, we will be there, practising the black art of MX.
rgds
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All,
Spoke with Leon Wood from the Upper Hunter Club this evening and all is good for our last round at Glenbawn in November, so start making plans guys for the 21st & 22nd of November last round for the year. If you wish to trial the track before hand, the Upper Hunter Club is running a race meet at the track on Sunday 1st November. The track shall be well prepped and inside word is that it will be better than ever due to some track work and watering. So get set for the last flurry of points on offer and also the AGM and election of new committee for 2010.
Dan
Thanks Dan appreciate your invaluable input.
Well done mate.
Damo
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Hey Dan
What's with the Heaven website, does someone want me to take care of it, I could get a new one built and get it maintained if no one has the time.
I would be happy to pay for the rebuild if the club pays to maintain it.
Also, Lets make that last round a big one. Everybody enter, please!
I don't care how many rounds there is. I can't get enough.
Any one wants to come to Luee this weekend, we will be there, practising the black art of MX.
rgds
Cant ask any more than that Carl, pretty good offer, needs to be talked about this weekend ;)
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Carl,
Would like to catch up this weekend and have a chat regarding this. Also would like to get some feedback from as many members as possible on content of the website ( ie want they want ) and the way forward for the club next year and beyond. My intention is to nominate for a committee position in HEAVEN next year and would like to get as much input from members as I can regarding the clubs direction and way forward. This includes things like number of rounds, tracks we use, types of events, class structures etc and generally any constructive comments that they would like to put forward. Having said that, just because I nominate does not mean that members will vote me into a position, so we shall just have to see. Catch you on the weekend. Cheers.
Dan
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How refreshing that Dan is openly asking for input from the shop floor. What a marked difference to a couple of years ago where the facist dictatorship ruled with a big stick and woe be to anybody who even offered a suggestion let alone criticise decisions.....Methinks HEAVEN seems to be in capable hands and if they can inject some enthusiasm into their promotions the futures looking pretty bright.
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Here you go, my two bobs worth. I'll put it out there right here so's others can agree or howl me down. maybe with some discussion we can finetune some ideas for the HEAVEN executive to consider for next year. Before I start, let me just say I have no probs with HEAVEN at present. Plenty of events, lots of great people, a good executive, and more fun than you can poke a stick at.
A decent website. Find someone that can make it look good, and keep it up to date. It might be just me, but I like to see race reports, results and photos within a couple of weeks of an event. Also, it'd be nice to invest the site with some personality like Mark Austin did when he ran the site. How about some interesting stuff on there, like profiles of riders and bikes, stories of events travelled to, merciless rumour mongering and so on. Before you say who's going to do it, get the site setup so that members can login and post their own stories and photos. That is certainly possible.
More events on the southern side of Sydney.
Fewer events in total. So that the ones there are get better support. I said it on another thread, but HEAVEN only needs say 6 events a year. We already have a few that qualify as special - CRC, Evo Challenge, Canowindra Cup. Hype these events up better. Start with a calendar early in the year plus some advertising/marketing of the big events for the year. Then follow through with regular updates on what's happening and when. Actually, how about just 4 'major events' and have the club series decided on the results from those? Then add in several low key 'fun days' which don't require pre-entering. Days where you can take your bike along, look at it and others, talk crap, and go for a bit of a ride if you want. Hire a bike park for a Sunday/weekend.
How about a newsletter? A quarterly newsletter couldn't be too hard to come up with could it?
Classes wise, I'd love to see a major change here. Get rid of the million and one capacity classes. The Pre 78 classes are usually no more than 6-10 bikes. How dull is that? I enjoyed MUCH MUCH more the Canowindra Cup age races. I got to race my RM125 against some lumbering great British thing that flogged me. And I was surrounded by bikes of all sizes and shapes. But in the normal Classic 125, there were about 4 other bikes on the line... Yawn... Especially for me cos I am so slow that after the first corner I don't see any of those 4 bikes again. This subject could get a whole thread of its own.
A Pre-90 demo class.
How about a HEAVEN Dirt Track day at Nepean? Or even Canberra?
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How refreshing that Dan is openly asking for input from the shop floor. What a marked difference to a couple of years ago where the facist dictatorship ruled with a big stick and woe be to anybody who even offered a suggestion let alone criticise decisions.....Methinks HEAVEN seems to be in capable hands and if they can inject some enthusiasm into their promotions the futures looking pretty bright.
Totally agree Firco
Heaven was palooka central there a couple of years ago and it's good to see the change to involve others in the decision making.
Take a breath Admin, you have more points than a rose bush.
4 main events will hopefully bring better numbers to the race meets and more at the start gate per each class.
Running a 125 with a large 4 stroke is rediculous and it is heading back to the stone age
If the web site is run correctly there will be no reason for a quarterly newsletter....unless some people don't have a computer.
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A good website would make a great start and our people would be prepared to match Carls input $ to develop the site.
I would also like to point out that at the time when the previous management team took over at Heaven it was a fractured outfit , on its knee's and all but gone.
It should be known and very clear that Albert , Kelvin and their various teams put systems in place , rationalised the club constitution , mended many broken fences as such and whilst we are at it did a sterling job in guiding the club to the current position it enjoys. Its the old line , you cannot please them all , but you can still do a good job and in my opinion these various people did a great job.
The management team over the last few years has drawn on the experience of the previous management team at times and to their credit have produced a credable product.
Membership is strong , attendance at meetings is strong and by all reports every meeting go's well with favorable reports.
In my opiinion , a few less meeting per year would be a plus but other than that it appears all good.
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Keep the feedback coming guys. The more feedback that we can get, the more options that we will have to put to the members and let them decide. I would like to encourage feedback from other VMX clubs on how they successfully run / promote their clubs ( national & internationally )and give the members what they want. By sharing information, we can start on a continuous improvement plan for all our clubs in general and also the sport ( obsession???? ) as a whole. KEEP IT COMING! Thanks.
Dan
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My intention is to nominate for a committee position in HEAVEN next year Just because I nominate does not mean that members will vote me into a position, so we shall just have to see.
Dan
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh160/rosco400_photos/fat-controller.jpg)
We have a committee job for you Dan :D Who could not vote for this likeable chap
Serious tho, would like to see a couple of interclubs through the year with the DT boys
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Rosco,
How did you get access to my personal photo album???? Thanks for the vote of confience.
Helping out with the dirt track boys sounds like a good idea to me. Firstly we have to get the lines of communication open though, but I think that this can easily be acheived. I am sure that we can all help each other out for the good of the sport, if we just sit down and talk about it. Cheers
Dan
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My two cents worth . Heaven at present is an excellently ran club and I thank all those who put in the hard work while most of us just enjoy the resulting meetings.
I've missed the last few meetings after breaking my leg at Lakes D'oh!!! Missing the Canowindra event and EVO cup was most disappointing as I'd been looking forward to them all year.
The only improvement I could suggest would be reducing the number of events to 5 or 6 really big race weekends instead of the present 10. Then include 2 weekends or days of 'Classic Dirt' type events to allow an enjoyable weekend/day of riding/talking/looking/etc. 10 events is basically 1 a month which means most people pick and choose events instead of attending them all. Most people have many other commitments / work / family / etc which restrict attending 10 events either by choice or otherwise. 5 or 6 events scheduled as early as possible allows planning to attend all the events.
If this was adopted very keen riders would have 5/6 Heaven club events, CD weekend, Broadford Bonanza, VMX Nationals and hopefully the Classic National Dirt Track meet. Then 2 Heaven ride days as well.
10 events is also a very big work load for a volunteer Organisational Committee. The last thing we want is our Committee getting burn out.
To me the present classes are OK and seem to break the bikes in reasonably logical technology groups (there will always be exceptions). I agree some of the events are not well subscribed but it would be a shame to see them disappear maybe less events will encourage more participants in these classes.
We also need to spread the workload to allow Committee members to still fully participate in racing. How? I'm not sure.
Whatever is done it will not please everyone all of the time.
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Gee Rossco
That guy looks like a resptectable accountant from the Newcastle area that i know.
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Gee Rossco
That guy looks like a resptectable accountant from the Newcastle area that i know.
Respectable ??? ;D
Hunter club does have a fully licenced Stadium cross track set up in the middle of the dirt track, 2 dayer there could see a DT ride and a stadium x ride combined
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That sounds like a great venue Rossco.
Personally, I would like the amount of rounds- that should be points scoring rounds- kept to 4 or something close. Have more rounds for those who can make it, but maybe base the yearly point score on your 4 best rounds. By the time you allow for the odd Dirt Track,eg Jack Hogg, Classic Dt Titles and the Vintage MX Nats etc , making it to much more than 4-5 Heaven races is a bit difficult- as you all know.
The cold shoulder -and other parts I prefer much warmer- from the good missus is but one clear and present danger.
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I would just like to echo Shoeys remarks re Committee's past involvement,
I join heaven at that time ( and have not missed a meeting since) and Had nothing but praise for the job they did, which now allows the on going committee some latitude to improve, those people mentioned anchored a wayward ship and set it on its way again, thank you,
Cheers
Noel
PS speak to you on the weekend Dan.
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With all of this love and positivity being shared I might just join HEAVEN now ;) . I think it's pretty obvious that a 10 round series is way too many. As I wrote in the Viper/Monza thread elsewhere on the forum it's better to have four or five really special meetings rather than 10 same old, same old events. Give each round a particular focus and snazzy title and promote the living f*#k out of it.
I fully realise that many will disagree with me and perhaps I've misread the situation but from my observations over the last couple of years I concluded that the sport in general has lost a bit of focus by concentrating on trying to introduce new divisions in a bid to attract new participants. Over the last 15 years there has been a negative participation growth which considering the improved public awareness of VMX leaves me a bit worried. In the mid nineties, when we only had pre 75/70/65 to deal with we regularly attracted 100-150 riders to race meetings. Today, with the addition of Evolution and Pre '85 and the impending introduction of pre 90, those participation numbers have gone dramatically backwards. I feel that in the rush to introduce new racing divisions we've overlooked that what we really need is new racers, not new classes. Back in the early days of Penrith club when we were attempting to get the sport up and in the public eye we set up a number of promotions. We had weekend and Thursday night bike displays in Westfield Shopping Malls where we'd present a display of five or six bikes along with somebody to answer questions and pass out flyers and posters. We put on bike displays at modern motocross events, classic road race meetings and even Parramatta speedway. We kept the local papers up to date with results and photographs from events and articles on local racers. We even had some television on Simon Townsends Wonder World, Channel 7 Sport and WIN coverage of a full VMX race meeting at Bathurst. I even did a couple of radio interviews on ABC Grandstand.
With fond memories of those days the old farts of Klub Kevlar have set up the Show'n'Shine for November 15. Even though most of us have given up regular racing, we all still hold a love of the sport and felt that VMX could do with a bit of a push to let a new audience know what we're (vintage motocross as a sport) up to. Noel Clarkes tragic accident merely gave the event a fund raising purpose and gave us the impetus to get it running.
The Klub Kevlar SHow'n'Shine is a golden opportunity for HEAVEN to start selling itself to to a new audience. We'd love to see the club in attendance with a club display to drum up new business. We'll also invite Penrith club to participate. It was unbelievable how much our sport grew during those early days when we really tried hard to drum up business.
Hardly a meeting went by when we didn't see half a dozen new racers and there's no reason that spirit can't happen again. It's not rocket science, it just takes a bit of showbiz spruiking and a lot of enthusiasm.
There's nothing wrong with the implementation of new racing divisions but I honestly believe that it shouldn't br the main priority. Getting new racers and expanding HEAVENS promotional abilities are far more important in my opinion. Let's hope that HEAVEN can see clear to set up a booth at the Show'n'Shine and start the build up to a great 2110 SEASON.
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Firko / All,
I beleive that the positive vibe and attitude can largely be attributed to the current committee. Having only been a member of the club for just over two years, I am not privy to all the so called 'crap' that has gone on in the past. I believe that we should not be focusing on the past and worried about who did what and when but rather learn from decisions made in the past and concentrate on the future and building / promoting the obsessive sport that is Vintage motorcycles ( all forms of the sport ).
I have spoken with a number of people regarding the past ten years of the club and listened to both sides of the story to form my own opinions, but that's all that they are, opipinions and we are all entitled to them, so let's respect each other's opinion and get on with life as we want it, riding vintage bikes!
HEAVEN can do a lot better by promoting itself much better, but that cannot be left to one person. This mst be done by all members and is as simple as each member encouraging one new member to sign up and attend meetings / club days / race meetings. I aggree Firko that we do not promote the club well, but the first step towards rectifying that is to identify that issue and I beleive that we have now. More members need to be prepared to help out , even just a small amount and that will lighten the load on the committee members who perform a thankless job year in and year out.
So to all, don't just sit in the shadows and leave the running of events and promoting of the club to a select few, get in and have a go. If we are not changing and growing with the vibe of the members, then we destined to fall by the wayside and I for one enjoy the sport to much to let that happen.
More feedback guys, keep it comin!
Dan
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The 'less events' thing should be treated with caution.
The same discussion has been raging for years in the rally world: "We've got too many events that aren't supported properly. We need to have fewer, bigger events" - the arguments for are almost word-for-word identical to those presented here.
The NSW Rally world looked at who participates, and found that competitors could be categorised into groups:
1. The 'die hards' who would go to every/almost every event - usually they were chasing a championship.
2. The people who would only do their local events.
3. The people that would go to some events, with no apparent rhyme or reason to which events they chose. It turns out that the reasons were many and varied: "I missed that event because my sister got married"; "Never rallied down here, thought I'd give it a go"; "I was too busy at work"; "I love/hate that event"; "I busted my knee playing backyard cricket"; "My aunty lives up here so we got free accomodation" etc etc etc.
The tricky bit was that the majority of participants fitted into #3. Those people were all benefitting from a supposed excess of events - it means that they can get to a reasonable number of events per year, even if 'real life' gets in the way of their motorsport.
A straw poll of a group of my mates made it clear that if there was less events on offer, then overall participation would be reduced. Some even said things like "If that's how it was, then there would be no point in me even owning my rally car".
Most people seemed to assume (incorrectly) was that the events they liked would stay, while the ones they didn't like would be the events to be culled - so they'd be in favour of the idea at first...
I'm not saying that these lessons are going to apply 100% to HEAVEN, but its worth thinking about.
Despite all of the above, I'm not dead-set against the idea of less HEAVEN rounds in the future - just wanting to make it clear that its not quite as simple as it may seem.
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That's a fairly reasonable statement.
If the club was to retain the ten round format , What about the option of dropping two rounds , your two worst or perhaps two you could not attend for reasons as described above in point three.
That may be a further incentive to people whom cannot make all the rounds but feel they have a chance at the no:1 to no:10 plates to come to events on more regular basis.
May-be even a poll notice / form at the AGM with a few simple yes /no questions in relation to the number of rounds the membership really want.
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I think that you are on the right track Shoey with the form / poll at the AGM. I shall be doing the rounds in the pits this weekend at Lakes asking members those sorts of questions and jotting down comments. There will be no names attached, just maybe 4 or 5 key questions that can be answered quickly and painlessly and then the answer or number recorded on a peice of paper. I think it will be interesting what the members have to say when the 'mob' mentality is not present , and I don't mean that in a bad way.
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By cutting back to five rounds on a one per month basis the load is spread fairly evenly over the season yet halves the amount of work by the club. If you add Classic Dirt, the Nats and Dirt Track Nats, a vinduro or two and the odd 'out of the blue' event like the Jack Hogg at Moruya that brings it up to at least 10 outings per year which most would find more than enough. Halving the amount of work involved in setting up HEAVEN series events yet still maintaining the same number of events to attend can only be a positive experience for the hard working officials too.
As I said elsewhere, we went through the 'more the better' period in the old Penrith days and while everyone seemed keen to go to everything in the beginning, after a couple of seasons we noticed a distinct drop off towards the end of the season.
Of course Penrith ran an 8 round series with 4 motocross and 4 dirt track events which did spread the variety around a bit. Perhaps HEAVEN could consider including a dirt track event or two in their schedule. Penrith vintage dirt track meetings have lost a lot of their spark in recent years so what about the notion of a combined Penrith/HEAVEN dirt track at Nepean? Or even better, what about a Penrith versus HEAVEN dirt track challenge? I reckon it'd be a win/win for both clubs. I understand that many new generation vintage racers don't ride dirt track as they evolved from a culture where back in the 80s dirt track had lost its attraction and motocross was the main (only) focus. Prior to that dirt track had a regular part of a racers life which is why dirt track was so popular with the first generation of pre '75 vintage racers.
All I'm doing here is throwing a few ideas into the pot. With any endevour, as soon as apathy sets in it's hard to reignite the passion so It's extremely important for the club to keep that passion alive by not falling into the 'same old, same old' scenario that I think was the major cause in the downturn of the sport a few years ago. Recent events have shown that there is a strong surge of renewed interest so we (HEAVEN/Penrith and other clubs) need to keep moving forward and not fall into the old apathy trap.
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While I have nothing to do with Heaven, or Viper for that matter who are discussing similar things, I was thinking along the same lines as Nathan..... (scarey isn't it ;D)
"3. The people that would go to some events, with no apparent rhyme or reason to which events they chose. It turns out that the reasons were many and varied: "I missed that event because my sister got married"; "Never rallied down here, thought I'd give it a go"; "I was too busy at work"; "I love/hate that event"; "I busted my knee playing backyard cricket"; "My aunty lives up here so we got free accomodation" etc etc etc."
Kids birthdays, engagments weddings etc, all come into play as well as the missus planning something on your behalf.
If you reduced the events to 2 big rounds for instance you would still find some guys can't make it for some of the above various reasons.
So long as you have enough entries to make an event viable then I beleive you should run these events & as suggested, drop your worst score from 2 or so rounds so the diehards don't have an unfair advantage over those with "busy" lives.
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Holding a simple poll is a great idea but for human nature being what it is, many will opt for a higher number of rounds than they would actually plan to attend, just to widen their choices. It's no big deal if they don't have to work out the behind the scenes logistics.....the more the merrier! Adding the option to drop your two worst rounds is a good thing but....I still think 10 rounds is overkill. With the two dropped rounds scenario, perhaps a 7 round series would be the ideal. ???
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All club committees should be very PR savvy and be very approachable. 8) ;D
cheers
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Fair comment , however people with realistic views and expectations will vote accordingly, why ??? would you vote for tens rounds with the intention of not attending.
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Fair comment , however people with realistic views and expectations will vote accordingly, why ??? would you vote for tens rounds with the intention of not attending.
GREED ;D
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I would like to see the option of dropping your worst round implemented it worked very well with the Thumper Nats series and meant if you had a dnf you could still compete for the series.
I would also like to see a Pre90 all powers race implemented whether it be a demo class or championship.
Lastly I would like to see the club championship scoring changed to reflect the number of riders you are competing against, this works very well within karting circles an example would be:
Class Pre 78 open had 4 competitors the winner would recieve 25 points plus 4 competitor points total would be 29 points toward the c.c., the 2nd place guy 22 plus 4 competitor points = 26 points etc, etc
Class Evo Open has 11 competitors the winner would receive 25 points + 11 competitor points ie 36 points towards c.c.
Obviously the amount of competitors for each class would change from round to round.
I would like these options presented to the members at the AGM at Glenbawn
Damo
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why would you vote for tens rounds with the intention of not attending.
So that they'd have more options of what to intend. I'm not saying that all voters would do that but in a fit of enthusiasm some sure as shit would.
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I got to put something down.
It's interesting that Firko goes on about less meetings for Heaven. Hey Firko, get a bike and turn up.
I know people that participate in many sports that include old bastards. Most of the sports have a season and they compete often. Some sports even have mid week comp. If you look at surfing, most of those guys are in the water daily. At the gym I go to there are several old guys that train hard just for the love of it. Surf life saving have a weekly comp.
This crap about us being to old and the bike being to old is just that, "crap" and so is "there are to many meetings"
Why have less meetings, I am with Nathan on this. I belong to another club that has less meetings and gues what, most of them clashed with something that I had on. My total race attendance for the year is 2.
It's my opinion that if you realy love something you want to do it as often as you can. And after all, that's the reason we are doing it!
I think that this year has been perfect. Good amount of meetings and who cares that only 35 people turned up at Clarence. Did we have fun, you bet ya. I certainly did't hear one complaint.
We have a great bunch of people that do a great job at promoting the club considering that all of it is done by volunteers.
Could we do it better? probably with some fine tunning.
Best thing is, get a bike,get fit, come to all the meeting if you can and bring a mate. And tell every one what you are into, that is the best promotion for the club.
Dan, I will talk to you about the web on the weekend.
rgds
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Carl,
Will be good to catch up re the website. Are you camping on the weekend?
Dan
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Sorry to harp on about the rallying thing again, but there's a precedent there too.
The ACT Regional Rally Series is THE most successful rally series in the country - it makes the Aussie championship look like a complete joke (although three kids with billycarts could do that...). It is much more successful because it recognises that we're amateurs participating at a very amateur level - it recognises that everyone has a life away from their motorsport, but still wish to be competitive.
1. The ACT Series has eight rounds, and your best six count. If rounds are cancelled, then "too bad". I think that if two rounds are cancelled, then your best five count.
It makes the whole thing a bit more tactical for the really serious guys, but the vast majority of the punters just appreciate the chance to actually challenge for their part of the series.
Attendance is good across the year, with most classes not being decided until the last or second-last round.
There has even been talk of increasing the number of rounds to nine or ten, and/or making only the best five count. The concern there is that you could be beaten for the Championship by someone you have never actually competed against...
I see no reason why this wouldn't work just as well for HEAVEN.
2. You get awarded full points if you come and officiate at an event. You must commit to doing the job for the whole day, not just breeze in at 1:30pm, wave a flag for an hour and then go home again (or similar). You cannot score official's points if you compete. You can only score officials' points once per year. You do not have to score your officials' points at any time.
It means that the competitors take ownership of the lack of officials problem a lot more, without 'bullying' people into doing their bit (there's a small but vocal number of punters who deeply object to "being forced" to officiate during the year. The Victorian series says that you MUST officiate at least once per year, and they all cope fine - its just some NSWelshmen that complain)
This may, or may-not work as well for Heaven, as the culture is different and there's already a workable (but not ideal) way of gathering enough flaggies/starters/lap scorers.
I would like to see the option of dropping your worst round implemented it worked very well with the Thumper Nats series and meant if you had a dnf you could still compete for the series.
I would also like to see a Pre90 all powers race implemented whether it be a demo class or championship.
Lastly I would like to see the club championship scoring changed to reflect the number of riders you are competing against, this works very well within karting circles an example would be:
Class Pre 78 open had 4 competitors the winner would recieve 25 points plus 4 competitor points total would be 29 points toward the c.c., the 2nd place guy 22 plus 4 competitor points = 26 points etc, etc
Class Evo Open has 11 competitors the winner would receive 25 points + 11 competitor points ie 36 points towards c.c.
Obviously the amount of competitors for each class would change from round to round.
I would like these options presented to the members at the AGM at Glenbawn
Damo
I've not seen the variable points thing in action, but it sounds like a good idea. If nothing else, it will encourage riders to get more of their mates to ride in their classes...
The rest of it, I definitely agree with.
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This was posted over in the Pre 90 poll thread, but it's interesting and more pertinent here:
Average numbers per class - HEAVEN points score table
Pre 70 = 1.17
Classic 125 = 4.58
Pre 75 250 = 7.42
Pre 75 Open = 8.58
Pre 78 250 = 7.58
Pre 78 Open = 8.42
Post Classic 125 = 10.3
Evo 250 = 13.1
Evo Open = 11.3
Pre 85 = 15.5
Pre 85 Only = 17
Four Stroke = 9.58
You can see that the Pre 78 classes in particular are very thin. My point re fewer events and changed classes is aimed at revitalising the scene for everyone and in particular Pre 78. With fewer meetings I do believe we would get more riders. I take Nathan's point, but I think our VMX is a slightly different kettle of fish. MANY of the small pool of competitors try to make it to CD, Nats, and a few of the other 'away' meets like Jack Hogg, DT Nats, etc. As many are in the 40-55 year old bracket, family and work commitments must be a significant issue. There isn't room for all of those, and it's the local events that get dropped in favour of the bigger ones, at least for me it is.
Secondly, I go along to my local club and they run 3 rounds of racing with more than a gazillion classes. At HEAVEN, you'd be lucky to get 2 rounds most events. This isn't a dig at anyone at all, but if the classes were condensed it means bigger fields and more races. I dunno about you, but I couldn't care less what size bike I am racing against. What I do care about is getting a decent number of rides, and having a full field on the grid with me. Of course given I have only one bike and it seems most have a minimum of 10, I guess I am in the minority here.
My argument?
More grasstracks or natural terrain tracks, fewer classes and more actual races, and fewer meetings so the ones we do have are bigger and better attended.
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Hey Firko, get a bike and turn up.
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Best thing is, get a bike,get fit, come to all the meeting if you can and bring a mate. And tell every one what you are into, that is the best promotion for the club.
I've got plenty of bikes and I'm trying hard to get fit and have lost over 50kg in that regard, I swim nearly every day and ride my mountain bike but because of chronic arthritis and a severe ankle injury from a racing accident that requires major surgery I doubt I can race again. Don't for a minute think I wouldn't if I could. I'm merely passing on my ideas based on my experience racing and running vintage meetings with Penrith club, long before you came along Carl. Does that make me ineligible to have an opinion because I no longer race? I've seen the 10 round series before and they've all eventually cut back to a more user friendly 4 OR 5 rounds. In the end though it's up to the racers to decide what they want. Dan asked for some input and I gave my ideas. Because it disagrees with your perspective does that mean my input is wrong (or right for that matter)? No, it's merely another opinion that's all.
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All opinions are encouraged and I thank those who are willing to put their opinions out there. There is no right or wrong in the opinion stakes. If all our opinions were the same then there would be no forum and and we would not be having this constructive discussion and that's exactly what it is, CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION.
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Don't forget the amount of time,money and effort into putting all these events on ,,,for the same people to do the same jobs over and over can be tough stuff... :P
We,you,me,them and us might go to 2 or 10 rounds but someone has done the hard yards already...you just have to pic your date and rock up..
Its a BIG job running a series and setting it all in place at the years beginning. :P
cheers
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Some interesting stats.
58 Riders have scored points in the Pre 85 Only class. Race average = 17
43 Riders have scored points in Evo 250. Race average = 13.1
27 Riders have scored points in Pre 78 Open. Race average = 8.42
33 Riders have scored points in Pre 75 Open. Race average = 8.58
15 Riders have scored points in Pre 70. Race average = 1.17
Perhaps we are being spoiled by choice.
I reckon we could look at maintaining the current "trophy meetings" (CRC, Evo Challenge and Canowindra Cup) as stand alone events with all the hype and promotion we can throw at them.
The point score could then be run over 6 rounds with the requirement to drop your worst round.
Leave the Club Championship as it is ie. combined score of your best two classes.
Throw in Classic Dirt, VMX and DT Nats and I think that makes a good year.
Cheers
Shaun #23
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I think you might be onto something Stig! Gotta love statistics. Maybe 6 rounds and drop your worst for the point score. It appears the riders are there by your figures. Less meetings might equal a bigger turnout.
On the small fields in some classes, combine some classes again , it is always more fun for the rider. Is there a more tedious sight or task than watching or flagging a 3 bike field?
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Yep....F...ing WORK
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I say we should have at least 12-15 rounds all close to Sydney on good tracks and the members who front up the most and are consistant all year should then win the championship.This dropping rounds is bullshit.If you want points work for them.There are a lot of members who go to Louee and Appin and Mt Kiera and Dapto for extra rides ,myself being one of them.So if members can still go to all these places it means Heaven is not catering for its members needs.So I propose Heaven change to 12 rounds to start off and then see if 15 is workable
Fernando Franco
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Do I detect a hint of sarcasm there Fernando?????
Dan
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Fernando
Thats extreme even by your standards.
Have a rational think about your statements and get back to us.
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hey Fernando
go for it, maybe we should race 3 weekends out of every month ??????!!!!!!!!!!!????????
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OK, I am going to preface my entry into this discussion by saying that I am not longer able to ride, but did quite a lot in old days and also have extensive experience in running clubs and events.
Firstly, it's great that there is an open debate about Heaven's future direction. :)
My 2c worth would be as follows:
I am in the "less is more" camp with regard to the number of race meetings that are run during a year. For me, I think probably 6 championship rounds for motocross is more than enough and yes, you should be able to drop at least one round to allow for member's not being able to attend for whatever personal reason.
I also believe that there should be a stronger focus on the tracks used being Vintage bike (and vintage rider) friendly. Modern MX facilities are generally not well suited to Vintage bikes, mainly in the area of having steep upramps on jumps, so they should be used only as a last resort. Tracks that probably fall in this category are Clarence and Mt Kembla. While it is a complete pain in the rear to go out and track down new race locations, it's not impossible to do and that is something that the committee at Heaven possibly should do. Obviously, the closer to Sydney these new locations are, the better and more of an attraction to rider they will be. This is especially important to preserve the participation of the older pre 75 bikes, I feel.
Another aspect of having a long term successful club is the social aspect. Having a club to only organise MX races is a very narrow focus. Thus there should be social or "fun" events organsied during the year, as well as regular club general meetings at a social venue. Examples of fun events could be:
- 4 or 6 hour team MX event
- Vinduro Poker Run
- Gymkana
- Social BBQ / Presentation Night
- Summer Sailing/Surfing Day
- Golf Day
- Bowling Night (yes)
The more someone gets out of a club, the more he/she is likely to recommended it to his mates, I feel. Social events can also involve the other half.
Another important aspect is Promotion of Events and the club in general. Firko has already pointed out things that were done in the past which could still work today in promoting the club. Of course, let us here at VMX know about upcoming events - but don't do it 3 weeks before the event, do it 6-9 months before. ;)
Lastly, timing of events is critical. A lot of clubs take no account whatsoever of what other clubs are doing and what "big" events are on the calender for the year. It's not sufficient to say "we've been running this event at this time of the year forever" and expect everyone else to not schedule a competing event on the same weekend or indeed the weekend before. Sometimes, you need to be flexible to allow for specific one-off circumstances where another event gets scheduled on or near "your" weekend. The key is to communicate with other clubs and coordinate the calender with them. That way all will benefit from maximum participation, including Heaven of course. ;D
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I absolutely agree re the tracks Ajay. In fact, I hereby propose HEAVEN run just 4 natural terrain events a year - in New Zealand! ;D
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My 2c
So VMX Mag is going to do all of that a CD7 its is going to be worth going ..
Conondale is a long way from Sydney ..
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My 2c
So VMX Mag is going to do all of that a CD7 its is going to be worth going ..
Conondale is a long way from Sydney ..
::)
Well actually yes. Seeing as you mention it...we will be doing most of those things.
Less events? Yup. (only one)
Great tracks? Yup. (two)
Social aspect? Yup. (three days of social activites)
Promotion? Yup. (flyers were circulated at the Moto GP in Melbourne already)
Timing? Yup. (June long weekend, away from the nats)
Yes, Conondale is a long way from Sydney...but well worth it! ;)
So I guess it could indeed be claimed that we practice what we preach! ;D
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- 4 or 6 hour team MX event
- Vinduro Poker Run
- Gymkana
- Social BBQ / Presentation Night
- Summer Sailing/Surfing Day
- Golf Day
- Bowling Night (yes)
you can make your own entertainment at CD7.With the lawn & the creek on your door, anything is possible :o ;D ooops sorry ,back to Heaven planning :-X
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Conondale is a long way from Sydney ..
No it's not !! :D. It's just a short drive up the road ;). You N.S.W (& A.C.T) guys are soft ;D.
I have driven more than twice as far to get to Bulahdelah , only to be terrorised in the night by the bark of the legendary Crawford River grappa bunyip :o.
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Did anything come to fruition regarding the maintaining of the website or the set up of a new one after the weekend Dan. If Graeme snatches the home page, Heaven will need a new link up sooner rather than later. Would be a good time to start now although I dont have the skills or knowledge :)