OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: fatboyracing on September 22, 2009, 02:36:53 pm
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I brought a leatt brace last week and tried it out on Sunday at our grass track it felt uncomfortable at first but after 10 races I started to get used to it. Second last race I had a big off highsiding myself and driving my head straight into the ground, picked myself up abit dazed but perfictly ok, I know it sounds silly but what if I wasnt wearing a brace would I have been sorer or even werse.
I think eventualy leatt braces will become a must have for all riders senior and junior what price do you put on your neck/life.I would be interested in see what vmx riders think about this.
Cheers
Fatboy
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I would have a leatt brace but they wont fit my dainese body armour. Instead I wear a EVS neck roll. Tried it out a few times & works great.
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at the Nats recently I had a small "lay down and rest" on the back section of the track - real minor but was actually surprised how much the trousers/pants/nylons didn't protect me - then you start to think what if.......... I would be interested in hearing more about the neck braces?
Rossco
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I bought a EVS brace ($299 Clem Nunn Honda) because it can be dangerous at the back of the pack when you get lapped by the high-speed riders. It comes with a crappy tie-down system (which doesn't appear to work) but I slip my body armour over the top which holds it nicely in place. But it's not an easy task to get the brace on first and then pull the armour-jersey over the top, especially the back bit.
Also, reconsider your pullover-style top because the neck brace needs a zip-up front (or at least zip-up neck) to get the jersey over the brace.
But it weighs zip and you get used to the small limit in peripheral movement. There is almost no lateral head movement and limited yaw movement 'cause the full-face helmet collects the rim of the EVS.
Worth the money? I don't know about the wallet damage but I feel less vulnerable. Doesn't make me a better rider, though - Felix
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Thanks for the links Rossco,I was told by an ambo that a guy my size is more likely to snap there neck when I hit the ground then a lighter person just due to the weight of my body on my neck makes sense
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I have been running a EVS neck roll for a few years when the LEATT came out, and then bought one from BigK. i think that it is ( next to your helmet) the single most important piece of safety gear you could have. I was working at the broadford round of the national mx series a last year/year before and saw Carig ANDERSON have a huge off on one of the uphill jumps which resulted in his LEATT brace being broken. Who knows what would have been the result had he not had it on. Sorry, but for me the "its not comfortable" ,just is not a valid excuse-get used to it. Neck braces might not have saved Bronte Holland or Noel Clarke, we will never know, but as i get older i just wear every piece of protective gear i can when i get on the bike.
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...as i get older i just wear every piece of protective gear i can when i get on the bike.
Pretty much how I feel.
My Leatt Adventure is a bit of a pain to get on and off, but I don't notice it at all when I'm on the bike.
I can't seen any reason to not wear it.
There was a time when helmets were seen as overkill too...
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I would have a leatt brace but they wont fit my dainese body armour. Instead I wear a EVS neck roll. Tried it out a few times & works great.
It should fit as I wear a Leatt with my Dianese. You just slip the rear arm of the brace under the top of the back protector.
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BUY A BRACE... ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING. I HAVE THE ALPINESTARS BIONIC BRACE AND LOVE IT, HAVE ALSO HAD THE LEATTE BRACE AND THAT WAS SWEET TOO. ALPINESTARS HAVE A CHEAPER VERSION THATS JUST BEEN RELEASED IN THE US, WORTH A LOOK FOR SURE. ONCE THEY ARE FITTED PROPERLY, YOU DONT KNOW YOU ARE WEARING ONE. 8)
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Do they fit with any kind of body armour, or do you have to buy new armour to suit?
The Alpine Stars version sounds like it minimises collarbone injury in the event of smaller incidents. This makes them more attractive to me.
http://www.btosports.com/p/ASTARS-BNS
Tex
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I know it sounds dumb to say that I can't really afford a Leatt, but it's true. Although I see the Adventure is considerably cheaper. I've done a lot of reading and I think the EVS Evolution sounds about par with the Adventure for $100 less, so I am going to get one of those. Anyone got experience with the EVS?
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Graeme,
I picked up an EVS brace recently. It was a bit of a pain to use with the 661 pressure suit I had, and the idea of having to leave it on all the time if it was hooked up under the neck of my shirt didn't appeal.
I ended up with a mates old fox body armour, and like others have said it fits under the body armour and everything sits in place pretty comfortably, and you can take it off easily between races.
It seems really well made, and within 5 mins you honestly don't notice you're wearing it.
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I use an EVS evolution, won't go onto a track without it now and most times use it if trailriding. Don't notice I've got it on when racing but find it a bit restrictive when looking up down and around on the trail. At less than $300 its the cheapest way of getting significant neck protection. Dont hesitate. Get one.
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I originally had a leatt when they first came out, but tried a friends alpine star brace and never went back to the leatt.
The alpinestar feels far more comfortable and provides much better movement, although fitting body armour is a problem.
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I know it sounds dumb to say that I can't really afford a Leatt, but it's true. Although I see the Adventure is considerably cheaper. I've done a lot of reading and I think the EVS Evolution sounds about par with the Adventure for $100 less, so I am going to get one of those. Anyone got experience with the EVS?
A mate and his kids wear them and say they are great. His son had a big over the bars head first into a hard pack track a few weekends ago, the ambulance officers said he was a super lucky boy that he was wearing neck protection. He broke collarbone and cracked shoulder. Could of been much worse. :-\
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BUY A BRACE... ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING.
Not sure about that ??
When it comes to any type of mechanical bracing wheather its knees or neck get advice from a orthopedic surgeon or at least someone in the ortho field.
It is really hard to measure whether neck or knee braces have any beneficial effect, there is a lot of anecdotal "i had a real big one, could have been a lot worse without the brace" and stuff written in magazines which is just regurgitating the manufactures claims but nothing convincing.
If you have a hard impact without a neck brace, the force is distributed over over many joints, if you "lock out" these joints with a brace you then concentrate the force into one area and are more likely to break something in a small accident where you may have got away with just being a bit sore.
I have spoken to several ortho's about bracing ( a couple are quite familiar with MX) and all have said the same, bracing should only be used where there is a pre existing weakness in a joint otherwise you are putting yourself at greater risk with a brace on.
I'm not saying all this to blindly shitcan braces I would be quite happy to be proven wrong on this one, I just think there is a lot of emotion and marketing overiding the facts when it comes to to braces. The last thing you want to do is wear a serious orthopedic device that is designed and made by a clothing manufacture and is going to do more harm than good?
But don't listen to me, why not ask an expert
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Braces neck or knee also stop hyperextension of the bone and muscle- a good preventative 8)
this of course does not include headbanging in the mosh pit ;D
cheers
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Hyper extenension was the main reason my ortho told me NOT to use a knee brace. A knee brace can turn a hyperextension( really bad, done it twice) into a compound femur fracture (a lot worse).
Thats the main thing that worries me with the Leatt is the "tail" that runs down your spine, if you have a minor neck hyperextension, all that force is being concentrated into your thoracic spine at the end of the tail.
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I too have a read a lot of varied opinion about braces. So far I haven't been convinced that for my level of riding a knee brace is necessary, although I do wear a fairly supportive knee/shin guard. But the neck thing - I have read a lot of anecdotal evidence that they work, and a lot of relatively informed opinion that they work. I have never read of anyone experiencing a spinal injury through the use of a neck brace (ie the tail damaging their spine). I wear an EVS neck roll, and I have experienced one face plant where I was aware of the helmet stopping against the roll. I had no injury, but I have no idea whether the roll helped prevent one. On balance tho, it seems to me worth wearing one.
I've ordered an EVS Evolution.
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believing a broken leg is better and quicker healing than a hyperextension knee joint...
I'll agree to disagree ;) ;D :-*
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believing a broken leg is better and quicker healing than a hyperextension knee joint...
I'll agree to disagree ;) ;D :-*
Make sure that when you snap your femur that you are close to good medical help......or bleed to death :(
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believing a broken leg is better and quicker healing than a hyperextension knee joint...
I'll agree to disagree ;) ;D :-*
Make sure that when you snap your femur that you are close to good medical help......or bleed to death :(
:-X ah yes the femurs the big one-sorry ::) :-\
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EVS evolution neck brace 300.00 including post 07 3821 6777 robin
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Not sure about that ??
When it comes to any type of mechanical bracing wheather its knees or neck get advice from a orthopedic surgeon or at least someone in the ortho field.
It is really hard to measure whether neck or knee braces have any beneficial effect, there is a lot of anecdotal "i had a real big one, could have been a lot worse without the brace" and stuff written in magazines which is just regurgitating the manufactures claims but nothing convincing.
If you have a hard impact without a neck brace, the force is distributed over over many joints, if you "lock out" these joints with a brace you then concentrate the force into one area and are more likely to break something in a small accident where you may have got away with just being a bit sore.
I have spoken to several ortho's about bracing ( a couple are quite familiar with MX) and all have said the same, bracing should only be used where there is a pre existing weakness in a joint otherwise you are putting yourself at greater risk with a brace on.
I'm not saying all this to blindly shitcan braces I would be quite happy to be proven wrong on this one, I just think there is a lot of emotion and marketing overiding the facts when it comes to to braces. The last thing you want to do is wear a serious orthopedic device that is designed and made by a clothing manufacture and is going to do more harm than good?
But don't listen to me, why not ask an expert
Food for thought indeed, thanks Mick22.
Does anyone know of an independent medical study that's been made into mx neck braces? Obviously there won't be any links from the manufacturer's websites...
Tex
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcSuV6sh_F4&feature=relatedLongneck-Taz
http://www.dannymagoo.com/
At the Paris Supercross, Chandler suffered a crash in a heat race that broke his neck and left him paralyzed.
After the accident, Chandler went through a tough period. Within the span of a few years after the accident, he went through a divorce and then suffered even further when both his parents died within a few years of one another.
Spurred on by support from friends and his newfound faith, Chandler worked his way back to being a man of action. He began to promote mountain-bike races and got involved with DARE, a drug-awareness program geared towards school children. Chandler also started coordinating children’s hospital visits by top motorcycle racers through his International Riders Helping People organization. Through his organization, Chandler hopes to generate interest in the sport of motorcycle racing with kids, and also to remind them of the importance of always wearing the proper riding or racing gear if they participate in the sport.
Is a Neck Brace For You?
So what is all the fuss about neck braces? Do they really work? Who's wearing them? And who's making them?
Well, I think it's about time some form of neck protection was produced for the dirt biking world. With so many neck and back injuries plaguing the riders in our sport, it's a welcome breath of fresh air to finally have a safety device that can potentially minimize damage to the spine.
Although, there still seems to be much debate about the effectiveness of such products as the Leatt Brace. Some people want 'scientific proof' and crash tests carried out on these products before they fork out a few hundred dollars for something that might prevent injury. Personally, I can't see how it won't help.
It seems KTM and BMW believe in, and endorse the Leatt Brace. KTM have had their Leatt Braces re-branded with their own logo and have a lot of their team riders wear them. The Leatt Brace has also been accepted for use in all NHRA (National Hot Rod Association) classes via it's SFI 38.1 certification. Many pro riders are wearing them too. Riders such as Ryan Villopoto, Mike Aessi and Darryl King are flying round the track with these human collars on.
Neck braces are not only used for motocross and enduro e.t.c... they are also being worn for use in racing cars, jet boats, super-motard, go-karts and other types of extreme motor sport where the risk of neck injury is high.
Although an ingenious idea, neck braces are quite simple in functionality. Their purpose is to restrict the amount of movement or travel in the neck during an accident. They achieve this by resting on your shoulders like a collar around your neck and forming a kind of base support for your helmet.
They have been designed to fit comfortably with most types of body armor and helmets. And the Leatt Brace Team claim that "one lap or 5 minutes is usually all it takes to get used to the brace."
The Leatt Brace is the original, and probably the most tested and thoroughly designed brace on the market. At this stage they have 3 different styles beginning at around US$400. They're made out of injected glass-reinforced nylon and/or carbon fibre and Kevlar. Alpinestars and EVS also make a brace at a lower price.
Should you buy one? I guess until it's undeniably proven to help prevent your neck snapping like a butchered chicken, it's your call. But when/if there is evidence to back it up,I would imagine it will become as vital as your helmet.
http://www.dirt-bike-tips-and-pics.com/neck-brace.html
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Neck protection is better that no protection.
Christopher L Vaughan, PhD, Hyman Goldberg Professor of Biomedical Engineering
Thank you for sharing with me the report by Land Mobility Technologies numbered R/1/00431/1 and dated June 2004. I have read this report in detail and I concur with the basic findings as summarised in section 1.2 on page 5. You have asked me for my own interpretation of these data, which I am willing to provide.
By way of establishing my credentials, I should mention that I am an A-rated scientist of the National Research Foundation in the area of musculoskeletal biomechanics, I have worked in the field for 25 years, and for 10 of those years I was Professor of Orthopaedics and Biomedical Engineering in the USA. During this time I also acted as an expert witness in the field of automobile accidents and impact biomechanics.
Injury to human tissues (such as bones, ligaments, spinal cord, etc.) in an impact can occur through the application of excessive force and/or displacement. In designing restraining and protection systems (such as seat belts, helmets and your neck brace) there is often a trade-off between the reduction of force and displacement. This is indeed the case with your brace: there has been a slight increase in force when the braces are used but there is also a massive decrease in the range of angular displacement at the neck (175 degrees for no brace, 110 degrees for your motorcycle brace, and 65 degrees for your car brace). In my expert opinion, it is this reduction in movement that is most likely to provide protection to the person’s cervical spinal cord and head. I must add that some angular displacement is required to enable the brace to bring the head to a controlled halt (impulse-momentum relationship). Should you require any further advice, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Christopher L Vaughan, PhD
Hyman Goldberg Professor of Biomedical Engineering
Director: MRC/UCT Medical Imaging Research Unit
South Africa
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Does anyone know of an independent medical study that's been made into mx neck braces? Obviously there won't be any links from the manufacturer's websites...
Tex
I haven't been able to find any independent studies into these braces. I got in contact with Proffesor Stepen Graves ( Director of Australian Ortho Assoc) as I had been a patient of his previously, a while back and asked him if there had been any studies and he wasn't aware of any.
There are some studies to be found on the net but like any of these studies, unless you know the scope and the funding for that particular study you have to take them with a grain of salt....look long enough on the internet and you can find studies confirming Kermit is a real frog ;D
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The last thing you want to do is wear a serious orthopedic device that is designed and made by a clothing manufacture and is going to do more harm than good?
I thought " Leatt" was the surname of the orthopedic specialist who invented it? I was also under the impression that they have supplying neck bracing for motorsport for years, including nascar, V8's and F1.
They also don't pay anyone to wear or endorse their product.
Bit more than a fashion accessory I'd say.
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A lot of the arguments 'against' neck (and knee) braces sound a lot like the arguments against full-face helmets that used to rage in the early~mid 1980s...
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This is starting to turn into a conspirousy theory ???. I thought riding motorcycles was fricken dangerous? and the more protective gear you wear the better your chances of coming off lightly improve with more/better quaility saftey gear you have on!!. The next bunch of juniors coming throuh the ranks wouldn't leave home without their neckbrace or kneebraces, to them its just like wearing boots , helmuts ect ect. The safer our sport the bigger and better it will grow and survive. Maybe some safety gear is a compromise but at the end of the day I think your better off with it than without it!! ;). We dont have- ABS, Airbags, Stability control, (most of us are probably unstable) on our bikes so we need to protect ourselves as best as we can. You don't want to be asking yourself,...... what if?......... :-\. Cheers John.
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I've been considering a neckbrace for a while, and started looking around on line this week. But my question is, can you use them with an open face helmet? It seems to me that the jawbone would be the point of contact in an accident, not the helmet.
Would the neck collar be the only option, or are even those not suitable? I would prefer to stick with my open face helmet if possible.
Has anyone out there tried both types?
Mike
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Oi John - I have been told I have my own airbag thanks very much !!!! :D
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Mike,
I use a open face with my leatt brace and it is fine no problem,
Cheers
Fatboy
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What direction of unwanted head movement is the brace supposed to restrict? I can see an open face helmet would be supported to the rear, but what about forwards? The chin piece on full face helmets would contact the front, but an open face would allow much further rotation - Bad?
Mike
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661 have a new product due november that is an intergrated neck brace/body armour - retail here in NZ will be $599.00 .
have a look here for small picture http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=87401&pagenum=2#commentid2169437
this is what I am going to get , no shagging around with seperate items.
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I bought a Leatt when they first came out, wore it a number of times, but then i thought about it, so i don't wear it anymore. WHY?
Because they actually ( in the real world) cause more damage than they prevent. Someone crashes, breaks a collarbone and shoulder, and the ambo says lucky you were wearing a brace. Everyone talks about Baily and Chandler, ok, how man trillions of laps have been raced over the last few decades.
That's why i don't wear it anymore, haven't needed it the last 35 years. I know guys who take over half an hour to get changed into their riding gear.
There are no proven cases. When the day comes when i know what type of accident i will be having that day, i will dress accordingly.
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How many other bike riders have ended up with serious neck injuries that we haven't heard about, because they don't have the profile of Bailey or Chandler?
Personally, I got a big wake-up call after my crash last year, where (along with breaking my leg) I pulled the muscles in the top of my neck. I wasn't doing anything radical or amazing or that I hadn't done a zillion times before, but I got a big thumping.
If I'd been wearing a neck brace, I may have busted a collar bone instead. And to be totally honest, I reckon a busted collarbone would have damaged my confidence a heap less.
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One of our well known vintage racers here in the states died recently. He broke his neck and lingered for a few days before passing away. Also, another vet racer I know personally is paralyzed from the neck down after breaking his neck this summer. I'm not going to take any chances with my neck so I won't ride without my Leatt brace.
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Reading through the latest VMX magazine, I noticed that Ken Smith asked in his Sweep Rider column why nobody makes an integrated neck brace/ armour product . Well 661 apparently makes one called the "droid", as Geraldo mentioned in an earlier post. It has only just been released on the market & I am very interested in buying one. They seem reasonably priced . My only question/complaint about them is why don't they have shoulder protection built into them ?
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/industry-news/2009/11/04/neck-protection-let-s-talk-about-it/5
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It's an interesting topic for somebody who lived and raced in Cape Town for over 30 years. Chris Leatt is an (ex) enduro rider and orthopedic surgeon. Apparently he & I raced at the same events for several years but I never met him. Many of my mates were friendly with him.
Somebody, earlier, posted a testemonial for the Leatt brace, considering Chris Leatt was at the same hospital (Groote Schuur, same place the first heart transplant was performed) I would be very cautious. By all means give creedance to a testemonial from an unrelated institution.
Incidently I detest body armour (shoulder pads etc) & will only wear it under duress, I will usually, if possible, wear a jacket instead. This is not to say that I won't wear a Leatt brace but that I am unlikely to experience the clash between body armour and a neck brace.
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I can't believe that people can to-and-fro about the benefits of wearing braces (as if being an authority on the subject!). Just wear the bloody things if you have any care about your well-being and how much you care about those closest to you (I'm sure they'll get sick of having to wipe your arse in a very short time....). Just wear the bloody things and stop being a bunch of tight-arses.... ???
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I bought an EVS neck brace not long ago. I've only wore it once, and it's a bit of a routine to put on, but I'm still experimenting with a good system.
For the first few minutes, it drove me crazy. I was already a bit grumpy about the palaver of getting my gear on. After a few minutes it was fine. After a few laps I barely noticed it was there. The only minor thing was it makes a squeaking noise when it rubs against the helmet.
Tex
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One of our well known vintage racers here in the states died recently. He broke his neck and lingered for a few days before passing away. Also, another vet racer I know personally is paralyzed from the neck down after breaking his neck this summer. I'm not going to take any chances with my neck so I won't ride without my Leatt brace.
I'm with CamP, after one of our own top vintage racers was paralyzed i won't take the chance and always ride with a Leatt brace.
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Incidently I detest body armour (shoulder pads etc) & will only wear it under duress, I will usually, if possible, wear a jacket instead. This is not to say that I won't wear a Leatt brace but that I am unlikely to experience the clash between body armour and a neck brace.
I never like shoulder pads either. I like the idea of chest and back protection though so when I got the Leatt a couple of years ago, I took an old MSR roost guard and removed the shoulder cups. Then I fashioned some leather straps from an old belt to replace the shoulder cups. I ended up with something that works so good that I'm still wearing it years later. I like having the chest/back protection without anything on my shoulders restricting arm movement.
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i60/clpotter/Leatt-1.jpg)
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I've rarely worn any armour. I just hated it and thought it was a bit of overkill, it was just me, jersey, pants, gloves helmet and goggles, no need for that other shit. Then I started wearing a knee brace to protect the dicky knee and now, seeing I'm intending to do a few laps next year, I'll be wearing a neck brace. No qualms about it. Noel Clarkes s plight has bought it home to me how a simple little get off can have disasterous repurcussions.