OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: vmxrider on June 12, 2009, 02:12:57 pm
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From most reports these things are at least capable of matching modern 250 4 strokes in performance. Way of the future for MX or just another option???. The lack of exhaust noise has got to help in making more areas available for riding. Maybe one day well have to hide an electric motor inside our VMX engine cases. Just won't stir the senses or get the adrenalin going.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/gallery.php
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I for one will NEVER be a part of it!!!!
Electric MX Bikes........Sheesh.......... >:( Dont care how fast they are, I'll stick to burning very old things that rotted a long time ago ( not Kawasaki's but fossil fuel ;))
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I think they are a great idea and the more of you that buy them, the better.
You see, that will leave more of that good old fossil fuel for me and my bikes/cars. :D :D
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http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/525/5310/Motorcycle-Article/2009-FIM-Ride-Green-Eco-Enduro-Results.aspx
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They did not show the re-fuel stop. ??? ;D
Evo
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Check this out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNzkhTy3Oyc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNzkhTy3Oyc)
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You won't know if it's running as there won't be any white smoke!
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I do love my internal combustion engines, but I also love the idea of electric bikes.
Imagine how cool it would be to have your kids tearing up that vacant block next door without pissing off the neighbours. ;D
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Check this out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNzkhTy3Oyc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNzkhTy3Oyc)
way cool fun alright. 8) ..they had one at the Nats and Proserpine and they are errrieyyy quiet :o
cheers
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I do love my internal combustion engines, but I also love the idea of electric bikes.
Imagine how cool it would be to have your kids tearing up that vacant block next door without pissing off the neighbours. ;D
Bang on the money, Tony, that's exactly what they're good for : I saw a short blurt about them on tv a couple of weeks ago, they look the biz and go ok, but all in relative silence.....that'll snooker the cranky neighbours ! ;D
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I do love my internal combustion engines, but I also love the idea of electric bikes.
Imagine how cool it would be to have your kids tearing up that vacant block next door without pissing off the neighbours. ;D
Until your kid or a neighbours kid gets hit by the noiseless bikes from being unaware.
Noise is our enemy off road but a bonus on the road...(harley etc)
I can just see the future for bikes on the road....sorry officer, i just didn't hear it coming.....add to the didn't see excuse.
Just watch the pedestrian fatalities take a sharp jump once electric vehicles become common.
Head-ons in the bush will probably become more common.
I've noticed the DSE has been pushing and already put in some places oneway only tracks in the gippsland area.
Imagine charging stations in the bush???
Can't wait to watch a stadium supercross meeting....the sound of wheel chairs and the smell of burning armatures ;D
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I'd happily have one.
Initially, I was a bit against the idea of electric bikes, but then I stopped and realised that all of my objections were irrational nonsense - probably due to an unspoken fear of the unknown...
A mate (who happens to be THE best car engine builder I know) has gotten right into electric bikes, and some of his weird and whacky creations have opened my eyes to what's possible.
The future is coming. We can either sit with our eyes closed and our fingers in our ears, or we can jump on board and be the ones with all the knowledge when the rest of the world is finally rescued from the fossil-fuel-less ocean...
Also, I initially thought of electric bikes as being some kind of threat to my fleet of VMX bikes - that the adoption of electric powered bikes would somehow make it harder to get petrol for the old bikes. The reality is actually the opposite (like Tony said).
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The noise thing is another issue.
I love the sound of any internal combustion engine singing - and I mean "any" - the sound of an engine running strong and clean is music to my ears, regardless of whether its a 65cc 2-stroke MXer, a thumping V8, a rotary, or even a f$%king Subaru. As tone deaf as I am, I listen for the change in note as it accelerates up through the rev-range, the lack of misfires, the clean crisp sound that you only get from a properly tuned motor, etc etc - if it ticks all of those boxes, then I'll probably say "Yeah, that sounds great!".
Similarly, a stock Harley with open pipes is one of the worst sounds to be inflicted upon my ears - sure its got "a note" and its invariably bloody loud - but it is just a loud message that this thing is running like pooh.
This leads me to conclude that its not really the noise that I like, even though I'll say "listen to how good that sounds!" - what's making my brain happy is the audible proof that the car/bike/kart/boat/whatever is operating well - and the actual the sound that it makes, is basically irrelevant.
Despite all of the cliches we use, the vast majority of motorsport people that I talk to agree with me. It usually takes a few minutes of thinking about the engines that they like or dislike the sound of, but they soon realise that I'm right.
I'm sure that it won't take much mental re-calibration to appreciate the sound of a good electric bike.
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Hey i'm all for it too, and it is the way of the future and it will be exciting....although i can just see the electrical trades union wanting to put a finger in the pie.
Surprised they haven't got involved/interfered with motor vehicles...YET ;D
Yeah the future....mechanics will still be on about $25 an hr and the sparkies will be making room for another gay-lux and fishing boat in their driveway and 4 RDOs a month to go fishing ;)
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Until your kid or a neighbours kid gets hit by the noiseless bikes from being unaware.
Noise is our enemy off road but a bonus on the road...(harley etc)
I can just see the future for bikes on the road....sorry officer, i just didn't hear it coming.....add to the didn't see excuse.
I stole a test ride on that electric bike that was on display at the Nats.
It was actually very dangerous to ride around the pits as no one heard you coming (it only had chain noise) and so people would turn & walk in front of you.
It was a bit weird to ride without noise too, as we get conditioned to judging speed by noise.
It takes a little getting used to.
The Zero was a bit like a DT1, it has potential but their is a lot more development to come before it is really worthy.
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I think the Zero is around $10,000.00 and a spare battery $3000.00. In a perfect world I'd add one to my collection
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I think the Zero is around $10,000.00 and a spare battery $3000.00. In a perfect world I'd add one to my collection
..........not bad price really it you want to ride in the suburbs and wave to your neighbors on your new electric wizz ;D New KTM 450 in the shop windows are 14k :P
cheers
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Next you will be telling me they will be enviromently friendy ??? pigs arse they are.
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Here's a link to some info on the bikes used in Tony T's Enduro footage
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_0910_2009_quantya_evo1_strada/index.html
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Got any info on that, fart?
I know (and agree with) the arguments against the green cred of a Prius, but haven't seen anything on the Zero.
My gut feeling is that the Zero will be a lot less hypocritical than the Prius as it has no petrol motor, much smaller battery packs, etc etc.
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with you oldfart.you still have to dig up the raw materails.go thru the production etc.i buy one,charge it (fossil fuel) ride it.how`s my carbon foot print now.
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Show me anything remotely sexy about an electric vehicle......................................... 8)
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Show me anything remotely sexy about an electric vehicle......................................... 8)
ADB Feb Mag = While filming a segment the 27 year old Miss Universe Erin McNaught (Aust) lost her balance and fell, accidentally twisting the throttle of the electric dirt bike she was throwing a luscious leg over. McNaught's finger was partially severed.............now if this was a two stroke (for Jesus ;) ) do you think this incident would of happen....."NO"....
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Lozza, I'm struggling to find anything remtely sexy about a race-spec TS400, but that doesn't stop it being fun to ride.
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Got any info on that, fart?
I know (and agree with) the arguments against the green cred of a Prius, but haven't seen anything on the Zero.
My gut feeling is that the Zero will be a lot less hypocritical than the Prius as it has no petrol motor, much smaller battery packs, etc etc.
'Energy can be neither created nor destroyed'. Leaving the Carbon Footprint of development and production, and the potential bio hazard pollution of production and disposal of nic cad batteries to one side, the energy to run the bike as to come from somewhere.
Currently for trail riding at Yass you either go to a servo and get energy/petrol store as hydrocarbons 600 million years ago and then release the carbon in the Yass environs, or you plug into the electricity grid and use electrical energy created by burning energy/coal store as hydrocarbons 600 million years ago in a Power station in the Hunter Valley and then release the carbon into the Hunter environs.
Unless the electricity is produced by a sustainable means such as wind power, wave power or solar, the electricity is not green but simply moves the source and concentration of the carbon pollution. (And please don't argue Nuclear - the unaddressed safety and environmental issues associated with nuclear and in particular nuclear waste are proven and just as great if not greater than Global warming.)
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Lozza, I'm struggling to find anything remtely sexy about a race-spec TS400, but that doesn't stop it being fun to ride.
;D and DT125's more looking at them there is nothing 'exciting' about them, there are no aftermarket bling gold anodised anything you can't even put a red plug cap on......................
Hydrogen powered vehicles will be what we use the future.
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Will the electricity company reimburse me for the loss of a days wages when the grid goes down during the night and it hasn't recharged my new Yamaha WR450E,C/dore EE/V Sportwagon or the GSXR750kW.
I will have to rip out the jerry-can holders on the trailer and replace them with battery holders.
I unrap my new tool kit that comes with the WR450E....hmmm a battery post cleaner,2 spare brushes, a can of contact cleaner.
The spares kit will contain a 3ft long earth strap :D
A 10cent resistor that eliminates the ADR required 10v voltage drop @20ft to give you the full 48volts.
An air duct that fits on top of the armature to cool it down.
An Anderson plug to hard wire into the bike to enable jumpstarting you or your mates (although you will have to sit there for at least 1 hour and then end up discharging your mates bike ;D) whilst you roost away from him....and the "cycle" begins again.
You and 20 mates do a river crossing and you look back and see 100 dead fish floating on the surface..although you now know what you are all having for dinner...which aint bad.
Then ordering your new fandango sticker kit....Danger-high voltage,the shocked x-rayed skeleton head in a helmet, and the "What did the baby light bulb say to the mummy light bulb? "I love you watts and watts!" sticker.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Got any info on that, fart?
I know (and agree with) the arguments against the green cred of a Prius, but haven't seen anything on the Zero.
My gut feeling is that the Zero will be a lot less hypocritical than the Prius as it has no petrol motor, much smaller battery packs, etc etc.
'Energy can be neither created nor destroyed'. Leaving the Carbon Footprint of development and production, and the potential bio hazard pollution of production and disposal of nic cad batteries to one side, the energy to run the bike as to come from somewhere.
Currently for trail riding at Yass you either go to a servo and get energy/petrol store as hydrocarbons 600 million years ago and then release the carbon in the Yass environs, or you plug into the electricity grid and use electrical energy created by burning energy/coal store as hydrocarbons 600 million years ago in a Power station in the Hunter Valley and then release the carbon into the Hunter environs.
Unless the electricity is produced by a sustainable means such as wind power, wave power or solar, the electricity is not green but simply moves the source and concentration of the carbon pollution. (And please don't argue Nuclear - the unaddressed safety and environmental issues associated with nuclear and in particular nuclear waste are proven and just as great if not greater than Global warming.)
All of which is (should be!) well understood. I remember a statistic from 10~15 years ago, which basically said that it took a new car 7 or 8 years to 'pay off' the environmental impact of its production.
In other words, the amount of energy used to make the new car, was seven years' difference in fuel economy (compared to an older car).
Now that new cars are 'all' EFI and fuel economy improvements are much smaller than they were 15 years ago, I suspect that it takes even longer than 8 years before a new car is environmentally justified (new era turbo Diesels aside).
The Prius fails to live up to its environmental promise because its production involves a full petrol powered car, plus all of the electric stuff.
At the end of the vehicle's life, the batteries are also an enviromental problem.
The Zero, on the other hand, has none of the environmental production costs that a petrol engine brings with it, it weighs less than a conventional bike, and the battery packs are much smaller. Hence my questioning of whether they're really worse than a normal bike.
The generation of electricity to charge a Zero can be purchased as Green Power from (I believe) every commercial electricity provider in the country, so that's a bit of a non-issue.
You wouldn't even have to be super keen to set yourself up with a fairly dinky home solar set up just to charge your Zero (or whatever).
I do agree with Lozza's assessment that we're far more likely to end up with some form of fuel cell/hydrogen power than battery electricity. The most likely exception is if there's a sudden break-through in battery technology.
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I think we've gone full circle here guys....push bikes and motor bikes (petrol). Can't go wrong there!
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until something better comes along anyway. I'm still waiting for the Jetson's cars and scooters to come on the market! LEE ROY!!
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Hydrogen powered vehicles will be what we use the future.
The other night while watching the Dakar rally they showed one of the bike riders who is running a Hydrogen powered bike.
I hate bikes with batteries. >:( They go flat, need charging, they are unreliabile and piss out acid which wrecks stuff like chrome. The half decent sealed ones that dont leak are bloody expensive, but need proper care and maintenance so they last. They are heavy and take up space for other things like decent air boxes.
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http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/5/1430/Motorcycle-Article/Electric-KTM-Prototype-Revealed.aspx
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I remember when I was an appretice back in the 70's we went to a Battery manufacture as a polytech trip. The guy showing us around said that they had the technology then to produce a battery that lasted foever (this is 1976) but theres no money in that....they want to keep selling you batteries. Think about this, most of the space station shit was all battery powered, they didn't "holler for a marshall" up there did they?. They seem to have alot of trouble with the solar panel shit though!!!. And as for the Toyota Prius, that is the biggest con going around in the motor industry at the moment. over priced peice of shit!!!!, whats worse is our stupid polititions keep buying the bucket's of shit with our tax money! There, thats my rant for the day.
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I remember when I was an appretice back in the 70's we went to a Battery manufacture as a polytech trip. The guy showing us around said that they had the technology then to produce a battery that lasted foever (this is 1976)
Absolutely untrue for just about any real world 1970's application he could have named! Lead-Acid? no. (sulphation, no deep-cycling, grid corrosion) Nickel-Cadmium? no. (memory effect, self-disharges) Nickel-metal hydride? no. (limited cycles, self-discharges) Lithium ion? no. (didn't even exist back then! poor cycle life) The only one I have heard might have this ability is the EEStor, which is apparently based upon a barium titanate ceramic powder, but has been greeted with great scepticism. (but then again Lockheed-Martin have signed some deal with them)
You might want to look at what CSIRO are up to - http://www.csiro.au/science/Ultra-Battery.html
As to space work, Apollo used silver-zinc, which had to last a week. (lots of real silver!)
The space-station has huge 175kg battery packs for the solar arrays that are meant to last 6-7 years . Dead ones are being replaced in space-walks after 9 years. 'last forever' did he say?
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Could this change your mind?
(http://www.cyclenews.com/files/news_articles/newbikes/1003/KTM-freeride-offroad-01-z.jpg)
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Tim can you imagine the fun I will have at 04h30 in the morings in the Constantia forests. Dream on Tim- I have placed an order. Tonight I rode trials in the up reaches of the forests above Porter School- always trying to avoid anybody hearing us. Based on the electric bike prospects we could proabably hit Cape Point from Tokai and be back before the bunny huggers wake
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Could this change your mind?
(http://www.cyclenews.com/files/news_articles/newbikes/1003/KTM-freeride-offroad-01-z.jpg)
White frame brace is fugly...I think it would handle better than the Zero...
LWC82PE, not sure why you want room for an airbox on an Ebike.
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How long before a budding entrepreneur leases/builds a 3000/3500 sqM facility in the inner city area, builds a motocross track in it and stocks it with a fleet of these bikes, there’d be a queue to get to the counter to book in.
Image having tea, cruising down to the “Compound” afterwards and cutting 30/40 minutes of laps then heading home.
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Why do KTM put the rear brake up on the bars (they do the same with some of there 50s & everyone changes them) ????
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Why do KTM put the rear brake up on the bars (they do the same with some of there 50s & everyone changes them) ????
Only on the KTM Adventure 50's which are the beginers bikes do they have both brakes on the bars. This is to help them tranistion from a push bike (eg: BMX) to the motor bike. When they have confidence with the bike, you buy the rear brake kit which comes with a cable, brake pedal and hardware and convert it to a rear foot brake. We used to sell them with a new bike each time. Its a pity that the Japanese manafactures diddn't do the same.
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Bicycles that look like current model motorcrossers, Soon there will be power points in trees. recharge while your in the state forrest.
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This has an eerie resemblence to a story that Rick Siemen wrote about thirty years ago....... :(
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How long before a budding entrepreneur leases/builds a 3000/3500 sqM facility in the inner city area, builds a motocross track in it and stocks it with a fleet of these bikes, there’d be a queue to get to the counter to book in.
Image having tea, cruising down to the “Compound” afterwards and cutting 30/40 minutes of laps then heading home.
Good idea! Got enough insurance?? Btw, I rode in one of this huge mutha indoor tracks on the east coast of the US not so long ago, pretty cool it was too!
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Why do KTM put the rear brake up on the bars (they do the same with some of there 50s & everyone changes them) ????
Its a bicycle thing. I can see the mountain bike trails in suburbia swamped with Ebikes in 2 years. How long before some antsy assholes whine their asses on the front page of a local newspaper about them??
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-MX-2011-zero-mx-electric-motorcycle-zero-mx-off-road-/360751910008?forcerrptr=true&hash=item53fe7d4c78&item=360751910008&pt=US_motorcycles
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anyone up for some night golf course racing ;) ;)
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If it were in Australia at that price locally? I would probably hit the BUY IT NOW.
I see the main consideration in a second hand purchase such as this would be establishing the condition of the Batteries?
A friend bought a second hand earlier Toyota Prius, it turned out to be dud buy when it needed a new set of batteries twelve months latter.
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do ya recon ya could put a sidecar on it ? :o
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Yeap, they do that for the up and coming endurance model, optional sidecar,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,full of batteries ;D :)
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Yeap, they do that for the up and coming endurance model, optional sidecar,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,full of batteries ;D :)
;) :) :D ;D 8) sneeky pete eat your heart out :o