OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lozza on May 21, 2009, 11:17:03 am
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Sometimes it's pot luck with eyewitness, I dunno if it made it onto Nightline click on VIDEO (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/814694/man-shot-twice-in-leg-in-inner-sydney)
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Oh no!!! - Not "wogs" shooting "wogs" - what has this once great country come to?
I thought "wogs" only shot defenceless Aussies? Or used the mobile to call fifteen of their 'brave' mates to bash the crap out of one Aussie kid who had the guts to take them on ???
Jeez we imported more than just some crap bikes back in the '70's and '80's !!!
Dave Mac
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Oh no!!! - Not "wogs" shooting "wogs" - what has this once great country come to?
I thought "wogs" only shot defenceless Aussies? Or used the mobile to call fifteen of their 'brave' mates to bash the crap out of one Aussie kid who had the guts to take them on ???
Jeez we imported more than just some crap bikes back in the '70's and '80's !!!
Dave Mac
Couldn't have said it better myself Dave, 10 Points! ;D
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Thats funny...when i came out the tatoo shop.
he he she's a cutie ...........
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Outher old mates very shaken up "It was awsome"
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I think its stupid that middle eastern males being refered to as 'wogs' when the true wogs of this country were the greeks and italians!!
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True - Lebs steal everything, lol ! Even words !!!
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Sheesh, I leave South Africa to find the Kiwis are worse racists than the saffies and now this ;D
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Luckily not every Aussie is racist Tim.
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Sheesh, I leave South Africa to find the Kiwis are worse racists than the saffies
EXPLAIN PLEASE ???
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YO YO Fully Sic Boyz Roolz OK :D :D :D
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In a serious light (because I've been called to order) Mark, I think everybody is to a greater or lesser degree. There's nothing wrong with drawing distinctions between people. It's natural. But there's everything wrong with acting on the predjudices. In the old SA it was wrong because not only were those predjudices acted upon but they were institutionized and took the form of social engineering (in the long term it was also economic suicide).
Bill, yeah. When I arrived I was surprised at how much venom is directed towards the Maoris and the PI's. I had this impression that NZ was pretty easy going about the whole race thing. Boy was I wrong. Strangely I haven't come across much here (in Aus) in spite of the countries reputation. I don't doubt that amongst certain, shall I say, layers of society, it's rife. I just haven't experienced it yet.
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SA (in my post) = South Africa. My bad.
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yeah I think she is cute, for a lighter side I like Flight of the Concordes on Racism,
"you can uncover your eyes they are not Australian" ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs_rXxi0zhM
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Well here I have a fine example of an Italian RACIST (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YM9Ereg2Zo) ;D
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We have the same problem with our local papper stuffing up as well
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Google the name Clare Werbeloff, I think I'm in love.
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interesting view Tim , name a country that treats their minority peoples as well as NZ does , I think one of the main reasons the average Kiwi views Maori's the way they do is the inequality of the way the different ethnic groups are treated - there are Maori only schools , places in university's for Moaris only etc etc etc - imagine if someone tried to start a whites only school !!!! . But in general I think white NZr's and Maori's mix well , we work , socialise , play sport together and intermarry.
interestingly I think the term WOG stands for "worthy oriental gentleman" , the young lady in the video clip should have chosen her derogatary term more carefully , perhaps WOP or dago might have been more appropriate ;D
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:D
Good to see you are eating some fibre, Doc :D
cheers
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After reviewing the original thread video, I'm swaying towards thinking that Clare saw her chance for 15 minutes of fame and deliberately threw in as many politically incorrect quotes as she could fit into the grab. Methinks Clares a bit of a comedian who saw her opportunity. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of her. She's funny, cute and politically incorrect. TV will lover her!
On the racism issue, I think Tims right that we all hold some sort of bigotry. My biggest disapointment in my fellow human being is intolerance of others. I live in a working class suburb with a fair smattering of Pacific Islanders, middle eastern muslims and more recently an ever growing community of Somalian refugees. I have no problems with any of those people sharing my community and welcome them with no animosity. I find it great to see kids from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds playing together on the playground of the primary school close to my home, it's integration working in its purest sense.
Unfortunately something will happen during some of those kids teen years that will turn them into bitter, angry bigots. What causes those Australian born kids to turn into the ugly racist troublemakers that inspired the Cronulla riots and other incidents? What turned them from content Aussie kids into jive talking troublemakers who go out of their way to make trouble for us "Skips"? I worked for 20 years with a great Lebanese imigrant who often invited me into his home. I watched his kids grow into great little Aussies with the oldest boys becoming good rugby league players and embracing a normal Aussie lifestyle. I recently dropped by my friends house and saw how one of those kids turned into someone I didn't recognise any more. The two oldest boys Bekir and Nad were both good footballers but now only Bek still plays. While I was there Nad was laying shit on his brother for playing in a "100% skip team as the token wog" and going on about how his brother was "turning Skip, bro". I found myself hating this little prick and felt sorry for his brother for being made to feel as if he's let his race down. If these kids had been born in Lebanon during the sixties middle eastern war they may have some afinity to the Lebanese cause but these kids are born and bred in Toongabbie and don't even speak or read arabic. They're both Aussies but one has turned his back on that 'Australianism' and now has a distrust and hate of us "Skips' and "Kangaroo rooters". The two brothers even have different accents.
Why has this happened ? This is the attitude that prompted young kids of Lebanese heritage to enter into all sorts of gang activity against non middle eastern beach goers that prompted the Cronulla riots. I'm equally disgusted with the retaliation by the "Aussies" that day but understand the enviroment that inspired their action. What's causing these Aussie born kids to turn on the country that is theirs? Why is hate a more desirable emotion than love and respect for each others differences. As someone who has had no problem with any colour race or religion my whole life I find that the racism those Lebanese kids display against us has tainted my attitude and now I find myself biased against them. It's not their colour, race or religion, it's their attitude. I've never felt this way about any race or creed in my life and hate the fact that I've become something I always thought was wrong.
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That Firko, is it in a nutshell. It is very hard to go past the race, religion thing, when its the 'attitude' you dislike, and I think most people feel that way.
Its true that what we think or have been brought up to believe is the correct way and its hard to understand other peoples thinkings and lifestyles but that is the differences that all races face.
I lived in Belfast NI and not having a religious bone in my body I couldnt for the life of me understand why they hated each other, since to me, they seemed to be in the same boat. It was explained to me by various people over there and I grew to have an understanding of the whole battle, but at the end of the day its all about money. What is the sad part is that whole generations over there have grown up never even meeting or getting to know someone from the other side of the fence. Hatred is a crazy thing.
Its the same thing all around the world, where ever you go people are putting down other races/religions whether its their birth place or adopted country.
Hate a person for what they stand for or have done by all means, but dont hate the race, colour or religion because the world is getting smaller and smaller.
Im not trying to be PC although it may seem like it, but to me the people who always like to throw the stones at others are always worse than the ones they are throwing the stones at.
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I was working on a shutdown at Kernell oil refinery when the Cronulla riot happened. A lot of crew I was working with from the "Shire" left work early that day to go and "smash some Lebs". And let me tell you this about the hatred and pent up anger towards "Lebs"... it was not something that happened overnight. As it was explained to me by a few of my work colleagues.."We have had a gutfull of these bloody lebs coming to Cronulla beach and calling all our women in bikinis, SLUTS." and generally berating them with other foul language...A lot of the crew I worked with were not young thugs but hard working family men, who were just fed up and wanted to do something about it....A day or two after the riot happened the Lebs drove into town, like rats in the night , and proceeded to smash up as many cars as they could, not to mention gang attack single Aussie males and stab them in the back.......Australians as a whole are a very tolerant race, but occasionly the pressure cooker will boil over.......
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Sheesh, I leave South Africa to find the Kiwis are worse racists than the saffies and now this ;D
I was somewhat floored by this comment in my response to that outspoken 'eye witness'. I did after all paraphrase (if somewhat conveniently) what she had said but let me say this.
With respect Tim, many Saffies have left their native South Africa and I am at a loss as to why if it is such a good place, or am I incorrect in making that assumption. I would have thought they would just live in harmony with their indigenous brothers and sisters and make the country prosper as opposed to emigrating to countries such as NZ or OZ (especially OZ where racism is rife)?
I too try and accomodate everyone that comes to this country but hold little favour for those who believe it is their God (or Allah) given right to screw it up. It is rarely the privileged areas that are exposed to the nonsense perpetrated by some of the more Neanderthal idiots we have in this country, rather the areas that join onto the suburbs where you simply don't go at night if you have fair hair etc.
We have known of soccer clubs and ref's threatened in car parks by the people I mentioned because the "skip" team beat the others fair and square. We have gangs modelled on the States with these guys picking on other kids be they Äussie, Asian, Islander or whatever and beating the crap out of them - often so outnumbering the victim it is bullshit and very un-Australian!
When they come knocking on the doorstep of your leafy neighbourhoods revisit this subject.
All I want is the Australia I grew up in where the migrants that came here went out of the way to assimilate eg the Italians in Haberfield where we went for coffee today! I went to school and played with these "wogs" and saw many go on to become successful and ASSIMILATED Aussies who are proud to call this country theirs - a shame others just use the place for what they can get out of it!
If I can be accused of having selective racism so be it. One thing my old man and a host of others fought for was right of free speech and if I exercise that right too f...... bad if someone doesn't like it. This country is following others where minority trouble makers are embraced and protected by idiots who are never exposed to their nonsense. If you don't believe me drive down to Parramatta Westfield on Thursday night and see for yourself.
If certain groups are not a problem why has the politically correct Labour Govt of NSW endorsed the NSW Police having MIDDLE EASTERN and ASIAN crime squads ? They don't have Italian, Greek or dare I say it South African crime squads ??? Nor do you hear of very many handgun toting skippies but woe betide you if you have a road rage incident with one of our Middle Eastern friends as they may well be carrying a concealed firearm!
There are the good and bad in every community - it just seems some communities have either more bad than good or VERY ill deserved reputations that only THEY can fix.
I hold myself to comment gentlemen
Dave Mac ;)
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I think most social problems are caused by young, angry, testosterone fueled men, regardless of race, creed, religion or colour.
Some race or religions may be more prominent in these areas simply because of their culture or belief systems, which in turn makes the women put out less.
In simple terms the biggest trouble makers are the ones not getting laid. Which is why they got to the beach to look at near naked women. Sexual frustration takes over, as they have no outlet, they take it out on the women by name calling. A bitch is the girl who sleeps with everyone but you.
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I thought she was a ho :P jeez I'm really behind the times but I do know something, we all bleed red ;)
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What would this topic come under - sex, religion or politics? The three subjects we're told never to discuss at parties.
Yeah, pigs arse. I reckon these three topics are debating gold and I think all three have rated a mention in the thread so far.
Three subjects I enjoy... but only in civilised company. Only if we can discuss without coming to blows. Only if we show tolerance for others opinions.
There are far too many great quotes from you people for me to insert here; and I find myself nodding in agreement as I read.
But this one from crash n bern sums it up for me:
...most social problems are caused by young, angry, testosterone fueled men, regardless of race, creed, religion or colour...
For the purposes of disclosure let me state I'm a blue eyed Aussie white fella of Anglo Saxon/Celtic origins - and I try hard not to be biased toward others.
I say 'try' coz like Firko I've listened to the vitriole about us 'Skips' and it's hard not to flare up at times like that.
And for our overseas forum friends let's clarify 'Skips' is a reference to skippy the kangaroo who I imagine you're familiar with.
Personally I'd rather live next door to decent living immigrant 'foreigners' of any colour than live next to some white, troublesome arsehole Aussie.
Because surely we all recognise arrogance and attitude and 'superiority' is not the trait of any particular ethnic group.
Nice people are nice people. And I have no idea what most of you forum members look like...
We're all like minded in our love of the old dirt bikes and we chat and generally get on well.
Are we all white on here? Dunno, and quite frankly it doesn't matter.
It's just a bunch of like minded people getting on. And that's how it should be across society.
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One of my favourite quotes to use whenever race/racism is being discussed:
There's only two types of people that I don't like in this world:
1. Racists.
2. Lebs.
Really, we're all too eager to categorise people.
Eg: He's an arsehole and he's Lebanese, therfore we equal being Lebanese with being an arsehole.
Its the same with any other race, religion, gender, sexuality, age group, etc.
Personally, I know I'm guilty of ranting about those frikken Gen Ys - they're selfish, self obsessed, irresponsible, materialistic etc. Then I look at the Gen Ys I actually know, and individually, they don't fit that stereotype any better or worse than the members of any other generation.... In fact, my little sister is probably the least selfish, materialistic and most responsible person in my family despite the fact that she fits right in the middle of the Gen Y age group.
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After reviewing the original thread video, I'm swaying towards thinking that Clare saw her chance for 15 minutes of fame and deliberately threw in as many politically incorrect quotes as she could fit into the grab. Methinks Clares a bit of a comedian who saw her opportunity. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of her. She's funny, cute and politically incorrect. TV will lover her!
I told you so!...News this morning that it was all bullshit, she never saw the shooting and made it all up. She saw the camera and decided to have some fun. Clare's already got a manager and booked for the Today Show tomorrow, A Current Affair on Monday night and a feature is ready to hit Who Weekly so my prediction of her being this weeks media love child may prove to be correct. Just wait for the Ralph centrefold and comedy spot on Rove. My mates daughter has even ordered the chika-boom t shirt online. ;D
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WOW this has been an eye opener thread-never realized it was so bad in the city.
Skip,roo rooter,all new too me.We only shoot em with a shot gun/22 for dog meat or claim insurance when you hit one in/on your vehicle.
Some of our kids in the country would be amazed at reading the above. :o
How sad that they are this bored generation of pumped up hormone lads, :( where are there parents.?
Hope they don't end up in parliament.
cheers
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Dammit, missed Firko's most recent post. Yes, what he said.
I have a theory* that says that because we live in a safe society, basic human insitinct seeks out 'thrills' to keep us connected with more basic survival instincts.
Look at the way we indulge in risk taking behaviour (including racing dirt bikes) when we know that we'd be far safer going for a walk around the park...
The rise of pointless violence has pretty much happened in parallel with the rise of the nanny state.
To be sure, there's always been an element of society that's been keen on having some biffo, esp if drugs/booze are involved - but never in recent history has it been so vicsious and so prevelant.
By limiting personal freedoms in the name of protecting people from harm, people will then find new ways to put themselves in harm's way.
No doubt we've all seen that email about being a kid in the 50s/60s/70s/early 80s, that celebrates all of those fun but now-unacceptable things that should have killed us all - like walking home from school, drinking tap water, cracker night, etc... The removal of those freedoms, of those risks, and of those responsibilites, is IMHO a big part of the reason for the rise in pointless racism, pointless violence, and a lot of other social ills.
*You always know its going to be a quality post when it begins with those words... :D
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:D what never ceases to amaze me is people actually believe what the media publishes. Monkey see monkey do. I take anything I read in the papers or see on the news as utterly sensationalized or totally improvised stories until proven otherwise. For example, a footballer gets pinged for taking a discreet piddle in a carpark and another for a sex romp that happened 7 years ago! This dribble grabs media attention for weeks on end running headlines in all states and all channels yet at the same time 2 police were charged for the rape of a girl during the Victorian bushfires but that's only worthy of reporting for a day. Society is all arse about and sadly it's only getting worse. Roads and hospitals in ruins yet good old Backflip Bligh is so damn proud of the new billion $ football stadium the government sponsored..hypocrasy to the hilt!! it all sucks and excuse me for for not wanting to be a party to any of it ;) there ya go, I feel better already being the 'anti-social misfit' I am ;D
the classic that gets me is all these money handouts from the Government and not a single penny went to the homeless or destitute. The funds could have easily been accountable using vouchers which homeless and poor 'WOULD' spend locally but nooooo...give it to many who don't even need it and then simply put it in the bank. The rich get richer and the pot stinketh >:(
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WOW this has been an eye opener thread-never realized it was so bad in the city.
Skip,roo rooter,all new too me.We only shoot em with a shot gun/22 for dog meat or claim insurance when you hit one in/on your vehicle.
Some of our kids in the country would be amazed at reading the above. :o
How sad that they are this bored generation of pumped up hormone lads, :( where are there parents.?
Hope they don't end up in parliament.
cheers
And for the most part it is a 'City' thing. Too many people packed into too small an area, all puffin' their chests out in racially divided groups.
Live in the bush and stay in the bush if at all possible.
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With respect Nathan, you may be coccooned away from the situation in sleepy anglo saxon Yass.
If you live in the 'shire' or Bankstown it's a real problem. There was never any serious race problems with the original fifties and sixties influx of middle eastern immigrants, it's the reverse discrimination from their Aussie born children against us that is causing angst in society. I grew up and worked amongst Greek,Italian and Lebanese immigrants who copped the wog tag from a sixties society that knew no better but there was little animosity. It was merely a reaction from a previously all white population to something thay didn't initially understand. Eventually the barriers wore down and those immigrants became good Australian citizens, intergrating beautifully into our society. I'm very proud to have good friends of all three races from that initial immigration influx.
The "leb" problem we have today is a bizarre form of discrimination against anglo-saxon Australia by mostlyAussie born young men against other Aussies. It's based firmly on race and is getting more serious from month to month. It's so disapointing to people like me who have never previously held any racist beliefs and I'm not alone in those thoughts.
I'm no social anthropologist but I put the atitude down to two major factors:1 The resurgence of fundamental Islam and 2: The American 'Gangsta' rap culture. Ironically both of these influences have a poor track record in their respect for women which today manifests itself in the attitudes of the Lebanese at Cronulla (and other beaches), calling women in Bikinis sluts and hoares and calling their boyfriends "skip pimps". The worst case is shown in the Lebanese gang rapes of "Skip Ho's" in Sydney in recent years.
It's disapointing in that my first generation Lebanese friends are genuinely embarrased and distressed by the behaviour of these gangs. My mate Jusef is so proud of his four children but is openly worried that his 'homeboy' son Nad is involving himself into a culture that he (Jusef)can't relate to. It's all so serious and it's all so sad.
* As far as generational discrimination goes, there is no problem as long as the lesser generations still realise that the Boomers created their perfect world ;)
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Mate, I lived the Mazda rotary scene for a long time, mostly while living in Wollongong.
I know the shit that goes on, and I 'like' it just as little as everyone else - you'll notice that my quote could have been about (say) not liking homophobes and fags, but isn't.
But to simply generalise on such a touchy topic simply inflames the problem. If you were a fair minded Leb, and you spent your whole life listening to people whinge about "all of those flamin' Lebos", how long would it be before you became one of those flamin' Lebs"?
Particularly when the Leb gang mentality (NB: I'm not saying that they're formed into organised gangs) is ultimately quite similar to many other objectional behaviours exhibited by many other young people - its just one that is easy to identify and the current one that's getting the attention.
I remember as a teenager, all of the hype surrounding Asian gangs/street crime, and my parents talk of similar hype surrounding "wogs", bikies, "abos" etc etc prior to that.
Ah, gotta go to The Boy's combined birthday party, but you see the direction I heading. I'm no bleeding heart - arseholes are arseholes - we just need to keep things in perspective.
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Sheesh, I leave South Africa to find the Kiwis are worse racists than the saffies and now this ;D
I hope you are not in OZ care of one of our racist citizenships.Id hate to think you were slagging a country that helped you.I dont know what part of SA or NZ you lived in but you cannot compare the two even closely in the systematic racisim that South africa was involved in.
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Sheesh, I leave South Africa to find the Kiwis are worse racists than the saffies and now this ;D
feel free to go back :D
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Now now fellas....lets not start throwing rocks at each other.
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Asasin: that was exactly the point I made in my subsequent post. The racism in SA was institutionized. Institutionized racism is social engineering and all social engineering will end in tears. Read further and hopefully you'll see my point. BTW I was bought into this country because I have skills that simply are not available in Aus. And please don't take an observation as a criticism I hate racism. It's one reason why I left SA.
Dave Mac: I think an example would be best illustrate why the saffies are leaving in droves. In SA the electrical power is provided by a quasi-state company called Eskom (nowadays it's called a lot of other names, none of which are complimentary). In 1997 the govt decreed that all levels if the workforce should represent the demographics of the country that is 10% white, 10% coloured/indian and 80% black. This included the professions like engineering. Problem was/is that there are very few black engineers for historical reasons (i.e. apartheids bantu education system where blacks were educated to be "the hewers of wood and the drawers of water"). Nonetheless Eskom forged ahead and, according the govts policy of affirmative action, replaced 80% of it's engineers with blacks. But the blacks they appointed weren't engineers. They were social workers, biblical studies graduates and, generally, "soft" graduates. The result was that there were no skills left to determine policy, so no investment in maintenance, no investment in new power stations and at the beginning of 2007 the whole thing turned to custard with the grid collapsing under the load. The result was that the country was bought to it's knees by continuous blackouts. Mines (60% of SAs GDP) closed by the score and the economy went into freefall. Eskom desperately attempted to lure back the engineers it had bounced but they'd left. Many having moved here. Eskom attempted to raise capital on the international money markets only to be downgraded by Moodys to extremely risky. In short Eskom and SA are stuffed.
The example above is typical of post independence Africa where ideaology was put ahead of practical considerations and the whole pattern of the govts actions in that country are eerily familar with the rest of Africa. That is why Saffies are leaving. The irony is that it is not the skilled Saffies that have been kicked out that will suffer but those poor people who are now denied sevices like electricity, clean water and other infrastructural neccessities that people in first world countries take for granted. The ex-pat Saffies move to those first world countries do, finally, get to carry on with their lives without all the crap that they've had to deal with for the past 30-40 years.
To imagine that every white Saffie is a rabid racist is simplistic. Many of whom voted in a referendum to dismantle apartheid (which was failing anyway). Most were sick to death of the instutionised racism and defending it and wanted nothing more than to get on with their lives.
Geraldo, I agree. NZ does look afer the Maoris and PI's very well and generally the relationships are very good. But in my small circle of friends the venom directed towards those groups was surprising. And that group was thoroughly middle class.
On my point that we all harbour predjudices to some degree or other: our primary purpose in life is to breed and to ensure that our genes are perpetuated. In order to achieve this we must protect and nurture our immediate family. This requirement ripples out to extended family our neighbourhood, our circle of friends etc. Anybody outside these grouping is viewed with suspicion. Hence an inbuilt predjudice towards those who are different to us . As I mentioned earlier the evil is on acting on these predjudices. Whether that action takes the form of unwelcome name calling (e.g. wogs etc) or systematic brutilization (gangs walking the streets beating up pakistanis) is irrelevent. It's all the same thing, just a matter of degree.
Reading the posts about the Cronulla riots. It seems to me that the blame can be ascribed to politicians who were too PC to send in the plod to tell the (unassimillated) little pricks to "move on" before it all got ugly. They didn't and it did.
Dave mac (again), it's not that racism is rife in Aus. It's present. But it is in all societies. BTW sorry I missed your second call last week we had to shoot out for dinner.
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We all just got back from a few laps on the local track and stopped in town to check out the new
WOK IN A BOX....the Asians have arrived in the country ;D
This will get the town talkin for a few week.. ;D
Noodles are yummie and HOT might put CD6 cooks to shame. :P
cheers
oh yer and I asked around if anyone knew what a SKIP was...A:::Kangaroo and large rubbish bin ,was all I got. ;D
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Tis truly interesting TO FAST TIM ,on how you can even begin to compare our Racism in Australia to that of South Africa. There is only one country that outshone SA when it came to Racism and that was Germany during Hitlers day. Bet you didn,t know that former prime minister Botha spent a fortune financing a Laboratory that for 20 years tried to develope a gene that would render the SA black sterile! .... Racism,aparthied call it what you will, has been bred into the white SA since the Dutch and English first colonised the place... I work in the mining industry in Australia where a lot of white SA,s are now employed with positions high up on the ladder. My job is hands on, Crane driving, rigging ,etc and when it is required I get covered in shit now and then ,and get very dirty. As one Good ol, SA white boy said to me last week when I was sweating like a pig and covered in dirt " Back in SA we would get the blacks to do that" ... Well that little comment speaks a life time and thousand words to me...
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Tim the flip side of your arguement is a hell of a lot of SA white's got very good jobs because of their race, and most times the only reason the business's were successful was being able to ride on the back of their basicaly slave labour force.
One major contributor to the Cronulla riots was Alan Jones he spent a full week whipping up hysteria before it, which basicaly breeched about a dozen paper tiger 'code of conduct' rules, but being the tricky shit he is, he refrained from making racist remarks himself(would have landed him in big trouble), just let listeners do that for him.
I'd agree with DJ as I have spent sometime in Belfast, and as a rule it was OK to hate whom ever you wanted to, for whatever reason you feel justifies your hatred.To me that seems to be the undercurrent today, just plain hatred.
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does anyone else love the irony of arguing about which race are the biggest racists ;D ;D ;D
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That is a pisser
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Lyle, like Asasin you've fallen into the trap of seeing what you want to see, not reading what I wrote. I made a clear distinction between institutionized racism and predjudice. I am not comparing the systematic racism that was present in SA with the predjudices that are present in Aus or NZ or any other multicultural country for that matter. What I am saying is that predjudice is everywhere.
Lozza, saying that Saffies got jobs or opportunities because of their colour is a simplification. When I was 10 my parents considered emigration from the UK to either SA or Aus. Had they have chosen Aus there is no reason I would have turned out any different to what I turned out to be as a result of the SA education system because of my upbringing and background.
With a large population of unskilled labour on which it could draw the salaries were low. This is simple economics. Large supply equals low price. Curiously the mines drew much of their labour from outside SA where those people had been "emancipated". The salaries in SA, low as they were, were still higher than those they could command in their own countries.
The idea that whites in SA have a very high standard of living is false. It was, in the '70's not very different to standards of living in Aus. But it was limited to the whites.
Apartheids greatest crime was (in my opinion) the denial of opportunites to people who may have wished to join the western world (for want of a better expression). That is, to gain an education and join the middle classes. Curiously it was Smuts, not the apartheid govt, that denied them this opportunity in 1925. It was this act (following the miners strike where the miners demanded that the blacks be limited to manual labour) that, in my opinion, sealed that countries fate. By condemning the blacks in SA to a life in poverty they also ensured that their population growth rates would be high (poverty and high population growth rates go hand in hand). A large population of poor people is a recipe for civil unrest.
Had SA not denied the blacks those opportunities a number of things would have happened, firstly the black population growth rate would have slowed down considerably, second, because of greater human resources, the economic growth rate would have been higher, leading, in turn, to a slower population growth rate. I mentioned earlier that apartheid was economic suicide. This is why. But this is all conjecture.
Oh yeah Lyle: I was well aware of Wouter Bassons experiments.
Just to re-iterate, I was not, in my original posting in this thread, drawing a comparison between the institutionized racism that was present in SA to that in Aus or NZ but (in jest and probably poor taste) comparing the predjudices shared between those countries.
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It's a shame this ones not being belted around at a post ride campfire !!! We'd be up all night !!!
Anyhow Tim welcome to Australia - warts and all it is THE BEST PLACE ON EARTH - that's why every man and his dog are busting their arse to get here.
Dave Mac :D
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Turns out she didn't even see it. :D
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Thanks Dave. Hey, M49 available in Queensland. See Spanish bikes section.
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Explanation accepted TFT. Don,t take it as a personal attack. I have worked with quite a few Saffies over the years and a few of them I would even regard as friends.I find that their sense of humour and way of life is almost identical to ours. Anyway welcome to OZ.
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Lyle, I found this a good natured & sensible discussion. I've enjoyed it.
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I agree,she should be charged with making a false statement,and anything she gains financially should be forfeited.Having said that,I wouldn't mind swinging out the back of her!
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In South Auckland, a fire destroyed a four story block of flats?
A Polynesian family of six con artists lived on the first floor, and all
six died in the fire.
An Islamic group of seven Pakistani welfare cheats, all illegally in the
country, lived on the second floor, and they, too, all perished in the
fire.
Six Maori, gang banger ex-cons lived on the 3rd floor and they too, died.
One white couple lived on the top floor. The couple survived the fire.
Rajen Prasad, Pita Sharples and Mike Minto were furious. They flew into
Auckland and quickly demanded a meeting with the fire chief. On camera,
they loudly demanded to know why the Islanders, Muslims and Maoris all
died in the fire and only the white couple lived.
The fire chief quietly replied, "Simple - they were both at work."
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Great thread on a serious subject. If only the art of sensible debate and respect for others opinions shown on this thread were seen more in real life. I don't think Australians are essentially a racist society but I think the media coverage of racial strife in other societies sparks up the feelings of hatred in a minority and before you know it that hatred has spread like a virus, just as decent people on both sides got swept up in the Cronulla situation.
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For Bill:
An Australian, a Kiwi and South African are in a bar one night having a
beer.
All of a sudden the South African drinks his beer, throws his glass in
the air, pulls out a gun and shoots the glass to pieces. "In Seth Efrika
our glasses are so cheap that we don't need to drink from the same one
twice," he says.
The Kiwi, obviously impressed by this, drinks his beer, throws his glass
into the air, pulls out his gun and shoots the glass to pieces. "Wull
mate, in Noo Zulland we have so much sand to make the glasses that we don't
need to drink out the same glass either," he says.
The Australian, cool as a Koala, picks up his beer and drinks it,throws
His glass in the air, pulls out his gun and shoots the South African and
the Kiwi.
He turns to the astonished barman and says,"In Strailya mate, we have so
many bloody South Africans and Kiwis that we don't need to drink with the same ones twice."
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She should not be charged, if the media is stupid enough to plaster it here and there more fool them. Please consider this theory, Maybe she is in bed with Kevin Rudd and it was a whole publicity stunt to make everyone forget the stuff up that our fine PM and treasurer are making of this country. Has she recieved an invite to CD6 yet?
OLDYZMAN
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Bill, being a kiwi your post bought back some memories. Especially the reaction by the PC brigade.
As my dad always said " if it wasn't so true it would be funny"