OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Honda => Topic started by: jimson on February 20, 2009, 09:54:50 pm
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G'day VMX247 would it be possible for you to put some photos of that lovely 8) looking XL350 you have and some information on what you've done as the bike is very cool 8) jimson
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Don't be shy :o give us a look. jimson
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Compliments of www.vmxwa.com.au
I reckon this one would look good blown up on the wall. 8)
alison
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That bike looks so cool 8) it looks like a big brother to a XR75 I have a XL350 engine waiting to go into a BSA Starfire 250 69model frame that will be for the dirt I just have to finish some other projects first :-[ jimson
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Thanks jimson,
cause it is a new ruling to change the decibels on the vmx bikes,steven thought he would try this out,,,,,,,
After Steven kicked black beauty over 2-3 times (Honda's do that after sitting for long periods of time/doesn't take much ;D) he looked at me with disbelief on his face and said "THAT IS LAME" :(
I then went up the house to get the camera and came across our son on the back lawn rolling in fits of laughter... :D...He finally stopped having a laughing fit,and said it sounded like a postie bike.
and my thoughts where "that is really pathetic to hear a pre 75 bike sound like that"
that's between you and me ;).......I didn't say anything to him. :-X
Anyway here are the pics for a few ideas if you need them.
cheers alison
picture avatar isn't working- I'll have to post up pics later
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EEEEP the roar is gone!!! and replaced with a strangled fart >:(
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EEEEP the roar is gone!!! and replaced with a strangled fart >:(
Sad hey :'(
Couldn't say what he is going to do with it...
he's not keen on it being SO quiet.
aLISON
ps pull some packing out for a start
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You would think because of the very limited use these machine get that they might get a pass for the noise they make, it's not like we are riding them in the street around peoples neighborhoods, and besides the harley's that go past my house would put most vmx bikes to shame.
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Here's today's A graders with a couple of XL's.
Steven's 350 played up for awhile, then something happened to the cam chain.I got the message via the canteen. 8)
Good day really as he is now recovered from the smashed up collar bone,so he got in a few much need laps. ;D
There will more pics on www.vmxwa.com.au tomorrow probably. 8)
cheers Alison
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thats what I was thinking of ;),only problem could be the direction of the rotor past the coils once you reverse the plate ?
advance will be turned into retard ?
we need a brains trust reply I think
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As supplied the coil backing plate would have fitted to the crankcase of the original cycle
To fit it to the cover we just mirrored the orientation. So the coils are in the same position (and polarity) in relation to the rotor as they would have been on the original plate.
I assume that the Chinese put the ignition plate on the left and keep with convention and the crank rotates the same as the rest of the world ::).
We machined the taper on the rotor. It's the same taper just had to go bigger. Then changed the coil stand offs to suit the rotor position on the crank.
I'm trying to sort out the timing position at the moment. I'm thinking that the firing point should be when the middle of a magnet aligns with the middle of the pick up coil :-\ Anyway - Nearly ready to see if it will fire.
Note to self- Put boots on in case of big kickback :o
Whaqt do you recon?? ???
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today's progress in the shed and I played with the camera . ::)
9.08pm and ready to kick over/oopps just heard the shed door slide,so maybe tomorrow. :P
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/cdifit.jpg)
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It won't be starting in a hurry without a carby Alison!
Has anybody adapted a Chinese pitbike CDI to a British single? I just bought two Chinese CDIs after seeing a number of people using them at the Barry Sheen meeting at EaCk. I'm negotiating a B44 Rickman head engine for my upcoming Greeves and I'd like to check out anybodys conversions. I've also got an XL 250 that I may turn into a lo buck vinduro mount. I dig the idea of using the Chonda ignition as the road race blokes love them.
Sorry to turn left on the thread.
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oh shi..... no carby ;D .............. (tomorrow-on any sunday 8) )
turn left as much as ya like ;) ;D
Steven & Alison
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How did the cdi go, did it work? I have an XL250 project that could use one of these. I see them on ebay for around $65 almost cheap enough to take the chance. Are there any links to this mod with the classic road race guys?
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The project is still going on.
Unfortunatelly I giggered a wire on the pulse coil and had to buy another coil. (complete unit) ((glad they are not modern bike prices))
Got that on Friday and fitted to stator plate today. Have been having no end of trouble getting spark today. Will look again at what I have done tomorrow. One of the other guys in VMXWA fitted one at the same time as mine. He kept the plate configuration as supplied and made stand offs to set the stator plate back. Mines the reverse. Plate mounted on cover. He said it was good but noticed distinct steps in the CDI curve. Probably easy fixed for another $50 with the race CDI.
The other WA guy that has his working got the bits via the following link
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RACING-INNER-ROTOR-KIT-FLYWHEEL-CDI-CRF50-XR50-LIFAN_W0QQitemZ160333513293QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycle_Parts_Ac
cessories?hash=item25549f424d&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A30
(If that makes sense.) He brought 2 for what I paid for one.
Anyway Ill let you know on tomorrows outcome if I can get back down the shed.
Cheers
Steven
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that xl 350 number #50, what frame is the engine in. david
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that xl 350 number #50, what frame is the engine in. david
standard XL frame no mods. 8)
and of course no Maico frame yet ;)
cheers S&A
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Will look again at what I have done tomorrow.
still no spark, doing my scone in over this one. >:(
maybe too much gap between the rotor and pole faces- ??? will move closer today :P
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found another photo
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This is just a thought 247 but with the stator coil, is it still the same way around on the mounting plate as it arrived? My logic is that the cdi's usually pick up of the pulse running one way, (say North South) generating a + direction pulse (sine wave). If you have turned the plate around but are running the rotor in the supplied direction (South North) you may be generating a - pulse ( sine wave), then those little diode thingise will not allow the pulse to trigger.
Try turning the stator coil over on the mounting plate, if it will fit.
It may be worth a try and should cost nothing.
I like the handy work of your mounting system. I like blending old stuff with new and you look like you've done a great job.
Good luck
PB
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The coils are orientated as they were if the stator plate was set back as normal. So the poles are right. What I discovered was the air gap required is absolutly naff all. By mounting the plate as I did it was quit difficult to get the gap right between the coils and rotor. To make it worse the rotor diameter was'nt very true. We have modified the backing plate a bit by machining out the area near the pulse coil and slotting the mounting holes so that i can get some adjustment and see whats going on. Works ok so far. true test will be race day.
The next version I will keep the stator and coils as normal, machine out the centre of the stator plate then make standoffs to set the stator plate back off of the ignition cover. Doing it that way makes it heaps easier to adjust the air gap between the coils and the rotor and ultimately ends up less machining to do.
Cheers
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Hi Jim, so your looking for a maico frame to put the engine in.
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Guess where we are going ;D ;D :P
(http://[url=http://[img width=800 height=600]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Nationals.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Nationals.jpg)[/url][/img]
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Guess where we are going ;D ;D :P
(http://[url=http://[img width=800 height=600]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Nationals-1.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Nationals-1.jpg)[/url][/img]
an XL funeral!!!
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funny haha Tossa
Alison
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funny haha Tossa
Alison
Now, now Alison, just don't raise your hand near me otherwise Christine will hit me!!
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as Tossa's post below.... Box of tricks ;D
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JUST NEEDS SOME RED PAINT ,,
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(http://[url=http://[img width=800 height=600]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Nationals001.jpg)](http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Nationals001.jpg)[/url][/img]
Box of tricks 8)
Best looking XL I've seen!!
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10am Saturday.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/xlinards002.jpg)
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2pm Saturday
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Nationals003.jpg)
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looking good you must be looking forward to getting it there that is a very nice looking bike you better check your list and check it twice though dont forget anything important thanks Michael. :)
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Lookin good for the long trip East guys. Kinda wish I was going now.
Like that Ultra light Eddy Mercxx style rear sprocket. :)
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5pm Saturday
JUST NEEDS SOME RED PAINT ,,
Got some Spectrum Red-it's a bit dull looking once it was on-international orange ;) ;D
Lookin good for the long trip East guys. Kinda wish I was going now.
Like that Ultra light Eddy Mercxx style rear sprocket. :)
Thanks Red & Michael,its been 8 months of blood sweat and tears,(wish that money tree would grow faster ;) :P )
Should be a hoot of a time :o
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/Nationals004.jpg)
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mmmm - Steve - looks like I will lining up against you eh!
>:(
Rossco
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Love the little wings ;D see you there
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That bike looks so cool 8) have fun don't forget the camera.jimson
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Hi Rosco.
I'm only running in the 4st all powers and sidecar. :-\ I was going to do other races and I did intend to get the TM going, but with Ben racing, the holiday after and all. the funds, time and inclination just don't seem to be able to keep up. I guess we can just do a bit of bench racing together.
Looking forward to doing a couple of skids and meeting up with some new people. See you over there. Safe travels. 8)
Jimson
Thanks for starting the thread. I think the photos do the bike more justice than reality.. ::) The old girl is due for a big birthday after this year. She's getting a bit scratched, chipped and untidy in the flesh. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing how it faces up against some of the other XLs over that side.
Cheers to all
Steven
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sorry Steve - just looked at thee numbers etc and though pre 75 open. Certainly looking forward to catcthing up - it has been a while. Bit funny eh - both from the West and our next catch up is in Queensland? Are you going to Wandering?
Rossco
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Yep XL and Sidecar at Wandering.
Probably catching up with a lot of WA people, in Qld that I haven't seen for a while.
cheers Steven
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Just started building a XL350 side port racer & I would like to ask you how you got the CR tank to fit, did you remove the std XL tank mounts from the frame, also what are the guards off CR as well? The plans is to do it CR style like the old Curtis Honda with Hooker header pipe that came with the bike, will have to make the muffler as that was missing.
How did you CDI work out?
Thanks
Tony
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Just started building a XL350 side port racer & I would like to ask you how you got the CR tank to fit, did you remove the std XL tank mounts from the frame, also what are the guards off CR as well? The plans is to do it CR style like the old Curtis Honda with Hooker header pipe that came with the bike, will have to make the muffler as that was missing.
How did you CDI work out?
Thanks
Tony
Tony
Sorry for the delay in replying. By the time Alison has finished with the computer for the night I am ready to hit the sack.
The tank picks up the same mounting holes at the front of the tank and similarly at the back. The tank is CR125 (76) I think it was. (red tank anyway) . It sits a bit high at the front but really is'nt too bad.
Guards are CR.
Seat is off a PE250.
CDI has worked well. However I would not mount it like I have again. I think from previous posts you will see the photos of the plate we made up which mounted to the side cover. The next version I will set back off the side cover so that the mounting plate is behind the rotor and just clear of the cam chain. The way I have it now, it is too hard to set up the timing as you cannot see the coils easily.
As far as the product, I think its good value for the dollar. and has not let me down yet. Buy two hand have a full set of spares
Good luck with your project. I really believe the XL is a great motor that even when modified sensibly provides great performance and reliability.
Cheers
Steven
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Thanks Steven, I have most parts to make the transformation, I was thinking all I would do is fit a hot cam, 36mm or 38mm carb? & a 1 3/4 header pipe, don't know about over boring as hear the gearbox blow with to much done to the engine, what do you think?
Cheers
Tony
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Tony
I went with a VM38 Mikuni from TD Hatrick, They supplied it all jetted to suit the following:
Cylinder was bored 87mm to suit an XR400 piston (96 onwards). This makes it to 420cc which I think is very useable and not over the top. This leaves very little liner, but once you are up for a re bore then you can fit a new liner with a bit more meat. You could then run oversize pistons as required.
The cam was standard XL350, ground to a sports XR75 Webb profile. What that means I have no idea, but seems to work ok.
Cam timing is retarded a couple of degrees. I think I worked it out to be about 3 deg but not sure right at the moment. As the cam chain drive sprocket is not keyed to the crank, inadvertently it was replaced slightly off line, and has proved to run to good revs like that. I have a vernier cam sprocket to dispose off if you are interested. We do not run any fly wheel other than the little rotor from the ignition kit.
I have had the head modified to run roller bearings on the cam. Again a successful mod.
I am not sure of the pipe diameter but think that it is up where you are heading.
As far as gearbox's go, I have done in third gear once. I think the biggest killer is coming down under hard power off of jumps. If you can control the urge to land under power I am sure the life of the gearbox will be extended. I had been looking at gearbox ratios for a while before I did in the 350 gears. I had an SL250 box which I removed the gears from and fitted to the 350 shafts. The 250 ratios are much closer together. I found that it was a better bike to ride and am hoping that the load on 3 and 4 wont be as bad.
I still run a cush drive back wheel. With the crap suspension we have and the lack of ability I dont believe the advantages of a light back wheel counter a longer living gearbox.
You could ask pretty well anyone in the WA club about the black XL and I think you will hear that it is pretty competitive. I have been impressed with mine and think with a good frame and better suspension they would be unbeatable (nearly) Other than that they are a bloody reliable, Long living, competitive and fun to ride bike. What more can I say. :)
Cheers
Steven
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In any other era it would be a hell of a ride, by that I only mean if you could have more "Suspension"
In the state it is now, you've done a brilliant job and it's a pleasure to watch you make that beast work. Definitely one of the stand out boutique bikes of VMXWA.
Barry
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It lives and breaths after the 09 Classic Nationals and Wandering WA to ride another day. :P
Boy child will ride in A Grade and Dad has been demoted to B Grade this Sunday--I really believe its a fitness issue. ;)
XL weights in at ...........................gotta buy some scales ;D
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/BenandMel005.jpg)
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and dad weighs in at!!!! Not half as much as me!!lol
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It looks the same but I think yours has more holes in it than my one :D
(http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/sudmanvmx/fire059.jpg)
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When you pull your bike out of the shed after 8 months of rest and then go out and race her the next day--things can go amiss. :-\
Though a good day had by all in the end with 40 rider (alot of new riders to the club ,but not new to bike racing itself) rocky up to do some serious sand skids. 8)
Doing a pit scan can reveal some red faced,breathless riders as it was the first club race meet for the year. :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcnPC0zUivk
Yer thanks dad.
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Quote: from Sudman LivewireNZ Champs 5th & final Round.
Yep it was a good day fine weather & testing track, had the same problem as Steve & could not get the XL started for practice ( I had pulled the stator feed to the CDI out when changing the fuel filter the night before) I found the problem just before the start of the 1st race, got a 2nd in that race with bike not going to well, down on power & hot, I had also changed to a new style of airfilter which started me thinking that maybe it's flowing more air & running lean, went up two sizes in the main jet & the power was back, got 3rd in the 2nd race & another 2nd in the last with bike running great. Grin
Thanks for the interest
Tony : Cheesy
Hi Tony.
I'm over Chinese ignitions >:( and am going back to points (until I can work out a better mod) I have farted around that much trying to get a reasonable spark, and at the right time from the piece of poop. Sunday did it in for me. Ironically one of the other guys that had put a chinese ignition on his XL has pulled his as well. He also said he could not keep it reliable. At low revs it just does not want to sustain life. Don't know what Ill try next, looking for suggestions.
I love the look of your bike. The tank and seat align really well with the frame. My tank sits a bit high at the front. (Something else to do) I like the left swing pipe. Does it clear the mudguard ok? Would not mind a look at the other side.
What did you end up doing to engine - cam, carby, bore, electrics??
What shocks have you used... YSS?
Any good.... ? Id ask Walter but already know the answer. ;D
I was talking to a guy on the weekend and he has gone down to a 34mm carb to get a higher / better air flow at lower revs. He recons that its heaps better than the 36. I suppose it depends where he wants his power, off the bottom or up the top. Because mine revs so hard it has no dramas sucking sufficient fuel, sure its a bit dead off the bottom, (cam timing doesn't help that as well) but by cripes, hold on when it starts reving.
Look forward to seeing a couple more pics.
Steven
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I have a MX250A 2 stroke for sale. Sorry Steve couldn't help myself and I know I'll suffer for it. Was a real pity the beast wouldn't fire properly on your home track yesterday, almost makes you an honourary member of the husky family!!lol
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Hi Steven engine spec is 84mm bore, web cam, 36mm carb, XR200 trigger on the cam & cdi with custom stator coil to fire the higher output needed for the cdi, CDI is the best mod I have done the bike starts 1st kick (if it's plugged in) when cold or hot, the motor pulls from the bottom to the top no problem it has a lot of mid range power so much so at round 3 I ran mostly in 3rd gear only needing to change up for the straights & if it has traction it would wheelie out of the corners.
It still needs a little jetting yet so I am planing a trip to the dyno to get it spot on.
Tank is MT125 & the seat is 76 CR125 1st of the plastic base models by changing from XL tank & cut down seat I saved 2kg
(http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/sudmanvmx/camerapics006-1.jpg)
old seat & tank combo
Shocks are Works Preformance custom made to suit me & the bikes weight, they work well for the price which is about 1/2 YSS (I think YSS would be better but with the full build in a very short time I did not have the budget) , I will take some pictures of the exhaust for you which is a step header that I made, I went down the left to keep the heat away from the carb as much as possable, do you want any other shots as I will take them at the same time?
Cheers
Tony
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Tony.
I am keen to know more of the ignition. Did you make it up? Is there a kit someones done?
Picture of the pick up mount and stator coil if you get the chance. All good brain foder when your thinking.
I have the electronics of an XL 175 and was thinking of sorting that out. May be similar to the XR unit
Something I was and should have done over summer..... but then...... you know how it goes.
Tossa could vouch for us, that Honda of mine had more kicks than a mule and still would'nt fire.
I was guessing I was a bit too advanced on the ignition timing as it was hot as hell and pretty dead. SO gave up kicking and decided to re - time it and that was that. Never to come to life again. AND I will have great pleasure in smashing the cheap piece of crap with a hammer, just so I wont be tempted to foolishly put it in anything else.
Thanks for the offer Tossa but I have enough to work on as it is.... A cheap pre 85 on offer maybe....... ;)
Cheers all
Steven
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I will get you the pictures that you need, did you see this one about the postie bike CDI?
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=12309.msg120979#msg120979
I going to take a look at that next for my C & J centre port I am building over winter. If it is easier to I will do a kit which I could do with the XR one as well
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=12369.msg121477#msg121477
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I built a Staten replica many moons back. I think I used an MT tank (XL/CT125 will do too and was easier to source) and MT front end-I think it was lighter and allowed mounting a CR guard, and a KLX250 seat which had nice lines and fit well. Still ran the cush rear wheel.
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The thing that is most frustrating is the fact that when you have it running, it damn well flies and is very competetive, sounds and looks great. have you spoken to peter boston to see what he is running in his, as he is only just getting his sorted
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(http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/sudmanvmx/SDC10121.jpg)
The other side
(http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/sudmanvmx/SDC10122.jpg)
(http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/sudmanvmx/SDC10123.jpg)
(http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/sudmanvmx/SDC10124.jpg)
(http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/sudmanvmx/SDC10125.jpg)
CDI cover with spacer
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Great stuff Tony. The ignition is exactly the same as the little XL175 unit I have. Potential is there.
Did you have the XL stator coils modified to suit output?
You did a great job on the pipe. Don't like what looks like a nasty in the tank though. Hope you were not holding on when that happened.
Tossa. Peter is the one I wrote of that has removed his chinese ignition and back to points for now.
Same problems as me and is happy enough as is for now.
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OK taking both feet out of mouth!!lol
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mate you have tried that unsuccessfully before ;D
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cutting remarks, that's right kick me when I'm down!!
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Hi Steven
The MT tank came with the nice dent in it so that one is not mine, the stator gets wound to suit cdi but mounts across the top not down side as when it's points, flywheel on my bike is TL 250 as they are 1/2 the weight of the 350 (xl350 8lbs xl250 6lbs tl250 4lbs approx) I got my CDI as a kit from a mate in the states, in the kit is the spacer plate stator & screws then you need all the other parts to suit, coil cdi cam trigger, all in all it would be very easy to do your own & that's what I am doing with the C & J Baja bike, water jet cut the spacer & a stator coil to suit, but this time I am looking at using a smaller flywheel & stator from another model Honda, XR200,XL185, CT110 etc?
Cheers
Tony
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Thanks again Tony.
I have to start building a new engine up so I will look at doing this mod then. Will chuck the points on and a battery back in for the time being.
Seeing photos always helps. If you have the side cover off one day I wouldn't mind a look in there too. But don't do a special job for it.
Cheers
Steven
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Hey Tony..
Is there a plate behind the pick up mounting plate and does the pick up hang over the outside of the rotor a little? I had a look at the little 185 unit and it looks exactly the same. But it will need a plate to mount it forward as it interferes with the rocker cover.
Cheers
Steven
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Hi yes you space the trigger unit off the mounting plate I think by about 4mm ( I don't currently have the bike hear as it's at the dyno guy) with 2 round alloy spacers, remove the index pin from the cam, the trigger hangs out pasted the cam cover & the outer cover spacer is ground out to fit behind, I will get you a side on shot when the bike is back.
Cheers
Tony
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Thanks Tony.
Why remove the indexing pin on the cam. Are they positioned differently... XR to XL.
Thanks for your help
cheers
Steven
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Yes the index pin is in the wrong place, It's a good thing I can deal with all the important emails at work & my staff still think I am working.
Cheers
Tony
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Thanks Tony.
Guessed as much. I compared the xl 185 TDC timing with the 350 tonight and see the difference. I might cut a new key in the rotor to pick up the pin. Checked out what you said about spacers and I am onto that. How thick is the cover spacer... about 6mm?
All else good so far. The 185 CDI and coil will do the trick and I'm going to see if the chinga rotor and coil will make enough volts to fire it all.
Hey this should only take 5 minutes.... ::)
Having said that we have a busy weekend of boy child racing then up to the city for a week. No playing in the shed. Thanks for your help so far.
Steven
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Hi Steven yes about 6mm, I have had a new slot cut in my rotor as well as we found it retarding after two or so runs, will the dyno was well worth it when up on the main jet & it's making lots more at the back wheel now from bottom right to the top ;D So it's all ready for the Johnny Old now.
Steven I am more than happy to help a fellow XL rider.
Regards
Tony
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Hi Steven, for what it's worth I run a Dyna ignition on my roadracer, with a battery, it fires wasted spark : in other words, every turn of the crank, it's off a GS1000 Suzuki, but runs a battery. For ever, batteries have been a pain in the ars3, but when I was down at the Collie roadrace at Easter, a local with a 500 Suzuki gave me a big lowdown on the advantages of voltage retention and low maintenance of a gel battery, so if you're considering going back to a battery/points ignition for now, a gel battery might help things in the short term. See you at Narrogin, regards GD ;)
PS I've seen vmx60's Alron, and it's ready to go for Narrogin, should be a stirring moment or two for those with any speck of emotion in them regarding the history of WA MX... :)
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I ran posty CT110 CDI ignition on my Champion XL350 with nary a problem. That's a disapointment about the Chinese ignition not cutting it. Over here, I've hearD nothing but good stories from the guys I know using them in road race Ducati singles and some Beeza singles. I'm using one on my Ducati 250 MXer engine but probably won't get to see if it works in the forseeable future as I've decided to fit a Triumph 500 to the Hindall. The Trumpy apparently has Yammy YZ80 ignition so it'll be interesting to see that conversion once the engine arrives from the US.
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<a href="http://s943.photobucket.com/albums/ad275/albrid3/?action=view¤t=hondaxl350007.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad275/albrid3/hondaxl350007.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
CZ/ XL 350
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I have made peace with the chinga ignition.
Based on info from other forum members, and thanks to them. I have spark from a combination of the XL185 CDI unit and XL pulser mounted back on the cam, with a supply to the CDI coming from the chinga rotor and coil The Ignition coil is still chinga. But I get abetter spark from the XL coil
I always had dramas trying to get the chinga pulse coil set up right. Maybe with all my fiddling I broke it..... again.
Anyway a spark is better than Ive had before, so its now time to mount it all up. Proper.
The sight of a couple of little blue flashes at the spark plug when you push the kick start over is sometimes an emotional time. I'm glad I had beer to celebrate.
Firko... Do you know if the Chinese ignitions that they use on the road bikes you speak of are an inner rotor type and do they use a coil near the rotor or a hall effect sensor for the pulse pick up??
No dramas if your not sure, just curious as I found the unit I retro'd was a pig to set up.
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Yay the Pheonix is rising!!!!!
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Firko... Do you know if the Chinese ignitions that they use on the road bikes you speak of are an inner rotor type and do they use a coil near the rotor or a hall effect sensor for the pulse pick up??
No dramas if your not sure, just curious as I found the unit I retro'd was a pig to set up.
To be honest Steve I've got no idea of the setup on Jonathons Motobi and Ducati road race bikes. I know they're the internal rotor version but that's where it ends. I'll see what I can come up with.
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Good to know you have got the old girl going Steve, I am currently working on a new CDI conversion which uses an early XR flywheel & stator so you can leave the cam cover as is & just remove all the inside bits, I will keep you up todate as we go along.
I hoping to fit this system to the C & J project bike.
Tony
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Tony.... or anyone else.
Instead of cutting a new key for the pulser rotor I pressed the rotor off and have moved it around to suit the timing. The reason I did this is so that the magnets are closer aligned to the pick up, and because my machinist brother is too busy to cut the key just at the moment..... and I want it now :) It obviously does not make that much difference as your bike runs with it in the normal position.
What I query, (how important is it etc). Is the timing of the pulse (voltage) from the supply coils down on the crank. I have been trying to think of the theory behind the CDI's and what i think is so long as there is a voltage being generated for the CDI (capacitor) to discharge then it should'nt matter.
whats your thoughts??? ???
In my mucking around I also discovered that a boyer pick up could be modified to fit behind the standard ignition cover ::). But then your back to a battery again :-\
Steven
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Good idea Steven I just drilled a new hole in the cam & put the pin to suit, I think your are wright about the charging of the coil as my stator has been move 90 degrees to the old mag position.
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and she roared with a 16yr old rider.
The guys had a blast riding all day, as it was capacity racing. :P The shocks gave out by the end of the day on the XL.
Poor old girl is due for an make over. :(
125
250
Open
Over 55(not our crew yet!) ;D
Sidecars
and 4 strokes= pic below.CCM,Maico and 16yr old on XL.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/dyjackridge003.jpg)
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I have made peace with the chinga ignition.
Based on info from other forum members, and thanks to them. I have spark from a combination of the XL185 CDI unit and XL pulser mounted back on the cam, with a supply to the CDI coming from the chinga rotor and coil The Ignition coil is still chinga. But I get abetter spark from the XL coil
I always had dramas trying to get the chinga pulse coil set up right. Maybe with all my fiddling I broke it..... again.
Anyway a spark is better than Ive had before, so its now time to mount it all up. Proper.
The sight of a couple of little blue flashes at the spark plug when you push the kick start over is sometimes an emotional time. I'm glad I had beer to celebrate.
Firko... Do you know if the Chinese ignitions that they use on the road bikes you speak of are an inner rotor type and do they use a coil near the rotor or a hall effect sensor for the pulse pick up??
No dramas if your not sure, just curious as I found the unit I retro'd was a pig to set up.
i'll take credit for that idea and glad it worked out ok,as to using a magnito points coil with cdi it wont last because it's being over driven and that's why you are getting a big fat spark.when you connect up a magnito points coil to a m/cycle ignition tester on the cdi setting they pump out a way fatter fat than on the points setting but run hotter,you'd be better off to run your pe coil you have spare for the tm250.pulser coils are low voltage/current coils and there to trigger the cdi box
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VMX247,your'e right to assume it's not necessary to index the rotor on your system as it's just a charge coil setup,it charges the capacitor,the trigger (pulse) tells it when to discharge (ignition timing),
is the std XL250/350 flywheel generator capable of charging XL185/posty CDI's or do i need to change over bottom generators to match?, :P
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You need to rewind the the coil to suit a CDI which is what had done on my XL.
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cdi's run on 90 to 100 volts AC so dont go grabing wires while its running,i got a nasty boot off a xr200 by touching the chassis earth which wasnt making full contact because some jap on the line didnt take off the paint where the earth terminal bolted on....not enough to kill but had a sore arm for a day
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16 year old Works Rider sponsored by MUM and DAD.VMXWA 15th Anniversary. ;D
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/shedgreeves.jpg)
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Nice!
Is that a CCM lurking behind or a B50MX?
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that's great Alison, it's always a pleasure to see the man child ride, think he learnt a lot in moderns this yr, still got his feet (massive) planted on the ground, thanks to mum and dad
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I have got an XL project that I am pulling together. NOS Cheney frame, KSI (Moates spec) motor built up ready to fit. Would post pics but dont know how to on this forum...... how is it done?
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I have got an XL project that I am pulling together. NOS Cheney frame, KSI (Moates spec) motor built up ready to fit. Would post pics but dont know how to on this forum...... how is it done?
here
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=3727.0
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15th Anniversary..Awesome days racing with the XL
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/15thanniversary030.jpg)
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8) Very cool looking track, nice power slide.
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The much needed rebuild has begun today 8)
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The bike or Steve ;D
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The bike or Steve ;D
The bike.. ;D cause if our young bloke gets on it again its going to need it all.. :P
cheers
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Steve will just have to come over and ride one of my C & J's to get his XL fix. ;D
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(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad275/albrid3/xl350.jpg)
This will be my new mount for next year scrambles, I was thinking about using a different frame, but I am not sure whether to go down that road.
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Finding one to suit is the biggest problem, Husky frames are the best option as the motor fits without having to cut the frame. If it was me I would stay with the old XL frame I raced one to a win in Kiwivmx 2 years ago, just work on getting the weight down, drill axles, replace the steel wheel spacers with alloy, cut all the unneed tags off the frame etc.
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I am keeping an open mine, you may be right sudman.
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Hello, VMX247 can you tell me how you manage to fit an XR400 piston into the XL350 as the gudgen pins on the pistons I have are different diameters. Thanks Neil
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Neil
Strange you have a difference. The piston I use is XR400R / TRX400EX - 96 to 06.
I have not had a difference in gudgeon pin diameters.
The XR piston is a bit shorter in crown height than other pistons guys have used but thats all.
Otherwise I can t advise otherwise...... It is a sideport XL?
Cheers
Steven
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neil...use an xr 350 piston same gudgeon pin and 84mm - 86mm bore wiseco
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What year XR350 Davy?
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83-85.. think they only made it in those years
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Thanks Davy, been doing some research, the XR400 piston has a 20mm pin and the XR350r and XL350 pins are 21mm, I will keep you updated. Thanks
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I have used the XR piston....it is bigger in the bore but a little shorter in the hieght between the pin and the piston top which leaves it a couple of mm below the top of the bore at TDC.
The extra bore size must nearly make up for the lower piston hieght.
I ground a groove in the top of the piston to replicate the original one for the inlet valve clearance
This setup worked for a couple of years hard racing for me and as far as I know it is still working for its present owner
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Gorby - you have been quiet for a long time???
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Needing sprockets any links ,sorce or compatibles..
Cheers SA WA
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Gday Steve and Alison
The CR250M rear sprockets fit the XL cush drive hub. XL250 countershaft sprocket fits so you can run a 520 chain rather than the 530 of the 350.
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Ali/Steve - can't remember their name and the current work firewall prevents me from looking but there is a sprocket specialist in South Aus that custom makes if need be?
cheers
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cheers pre75 fans :D shopped here for blanks ,but would of preferred that SA link Rosco :)
PBI Sprockets.com
Check out our New PBI Steel rear sprockets for ATV and Harley-Davidson@. Made in USA.
http://shop.pbisprockets.com/
cheers A
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Ali - have you tried this one in QLD:
http://www.chaingangchainsandsprockets.com.au/contact-us.html
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Ali - have you tried this one in QLD:
http://www.chaingangchainsandsprockets.com.au/contact-us.html
thanks, just taking a look now :)
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There is also Titman racing in QLD who can supply you with any sprocket you need. Great prices and an absolute pleasure to deal with.
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Aunty ;) here you go
https://www.facebook.com/PBIsprocketsaus.com.au
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I think these are the ones, JT sprockets any bike shop should be able to order them in
http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/model/5163 (http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/model/5163)
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Sprockets, brake pads and stickers arrived ~~ bankcards tilting on the axis.....life is good 8)(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/20140706_111747_zps26639d13.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/20140706_111747_zps26639d13.jpg.html)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/20140719_140838_zps99960017.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/20140719_140838_zps99960017.jpg.html)
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resprayed plastics in black have just arrived, with two pots of gold flex through...
ooh lah lah :P :P
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Ben can wear the same nail polish!!
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Always nice to have people within your club/s to get the job done 8) cheers A
COOL SHED NIGHT :P
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/20140723_161722-1_zps49a6df67.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/20140723_161722-1_zps49a6df67.jpg.html)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/20140723_161338-1_zpsca441b2b.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/20140723_161338-1_zpsca441b2b.jpg.html)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/20140723_161226_zpsfd26abba.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/20140723_161226_zpsfd26abba.jpg.html)
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Shiny....and nice ;D
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Aww very pretty.....for now!
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ooh la la Alison what's with the selfy ;D ;D
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ooh la la Alison what's with the selfy ;D ;D
pre75 era's all good lookin ;) :)
Just put the motor back in the frame ~ weapon 8) :D
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Day by day get a little bit closer. 8) Chasing a C&J frame if you find one in your travels :)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/latest_zpsffa3bc46.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/latest_zpsffa3bc46.jpg.html)
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lookin great guys......Good luck with the C&J frame find. The later C&J's come up from time to time, but I've only ever seen 1 early frame, and that was in the states.
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cooll..
john kemp has done a nice job getting his xl motor into a bully frame after ditching the maico frame.
hes going really well on it. maybe an option for you if the c&j is not forthcoming
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A mate of mine put a XL350 into a Bultaco frame as well. He had to do a lot of cutting and shutting on the lower rails to make it fit though. Allison knows Garry W. have a word to him if you want to go the Bultaco route.
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C&J swingarm,CR250M back wheel save 11 kilos go racing.
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Is the breaking gearboxes a fact or myth on the xls? hp related I take it? the xl wheel is one heavy mutha that's for sure.
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Thought you all might be interested in looking at this one ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Other-1974-vintage-honda-xl-350-mx-/171404677525?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item27e883d195&vxp=mtr
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Is the breaking gearboxes a fact or myth on the xls? hp related I take it? the xl wheel is one heavy mutha that's for sure.
I ran a 305 on meth with a YZ back wheel for year with no gear box problems , I did reduce allot of weights in the motor and ran a 400 rear tyre size.
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destroying 3rd gear is a known issue if flogged and if 420 kit was fitted, it almost guaranteed....
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sounds like early Honda gearboxes - standard stuff.
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That's looking great! Be a shame to get it dirty. ;D
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/latest_zpsffa3bc46.jpg)
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Is the breaking gearboxes a fact or myth on the xls? hp related I take it? the xl wheel is one heavy mutha that's for sure.
The early side port XL350 had a problem with breaking 3rd gear once it was taken to an mx track. The problem got worse with big bore HP and replacing the cush drive hub with a solid unit. The cush drive helps a lot when landing from jumps and braking/acceleration bumps.
The later centre port gears are much beefier with bigger dogs on the gears and stronger selectors. They can be made even more reliable by speeding up the clutch gears which is something Bill Bell used to do with his C&J desert racers.
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TBM beat me to the post, by a stroll down to the shed :)
From MB Racing shed :
No problem with gearbox.
The cush drive and rear hub have been lightened.
Changed Primary drive ratio's (new gear).
250 Gear box ratio's close together.
XR400 piston ,not high compression.
Bigger the bore the more reliability you lose.
Cam and ignition changed as in previous posts..
cheers A
Clear plastics now on tank for protection :)
PS She runs and sounds sic/wicked/awesome 8)
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Just do idler gears here...timing was out so something gave way..bad backfire... :-X >:(
:::Back up needed :::
Anyone able to bring XL350 KI 74-76 Kickstart Idler gear to the Port Augusta Australian Championship, would be greatly appreciated..
We have a spare in, though not 100% happy with it.
cheers US2 WA
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Electrics passed away :-X ,so new PVL coming in from USA.
Pick up # plates today and spare back wheel.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/latest_zps87def7e4.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/latest_zps87def7e4.jpg.html)
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Ali - will you be at Wandering or already on the way to SA?
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Ali - will you be at Wandering or already on the way to SA?
She won't be there Rossco
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Electrics passed away :-X ,so new PVL coming in from USA.
Pick up # plates today and spare back wheel.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/latest_zps87def7e4.jpg) (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/vmx247/media/latest_zps87def7e4.jpg.html)
You'll be happy with the PVL. It bolts straight on without any problems whatsoever.
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bugga - will you be Tos?
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yep Clerk of Course
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Last night saw 19 West aussie greg nomads at camp one.800 odd km down,with car troubles and a trye issue sorted,we gathered around the fire till 9ish.
We all hit the road before 9am.Got in another good 600km with the Eucla dunes now in sight.
Have paid $2 a ltr for diesel and now sitting pretty doing 95km hr,as this gives us 15ltrs to 100km in the toyota.
Cheers A
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15L/100 at 95. far out. I spit it if my truck goes 10L/100 at 120
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Most getting 15-25 ltrs so all happy as long as we make it safely :)
After 720km yesterday with stops for fuel,showers and seeing Simon(hitchhiker) from South Africia connecting with his father,to both continue east on pushbikes.
Many lizards and snakes on the warm biitumen and heading into Dingo country its a free easy snack for them.
23 wavmx people gathered on wind swept rest area last night.
Imagine its like the old days,with bikes coming out, to make way for bedding.CZ,Bsa look magic in sunrise.
Next gathering 400odd km Ceduna for fish n chips by the foreshore.
Cheers A
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Alison ... why are you getting P/ pour fuel economy ::) is the hand brake on Steve LOL
Enjoy the trip and post up plenty of pics please
Cheers
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Here's a good project starter on fleabay.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/honda-xl250-1973-supersport-/171423310816?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
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its got a kdx rear wheel :o...interesting convo or is it an earlier kx? im sure its Kawa.... ::)
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Thanks Slakey of the link,one takes us around oz as is :P
Last night a gathering of 22 off the Eyre Hwy.200km left till we check the track and the best lines to take.
May the best Honda win ;) :D
Cheers A
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Clans arriving from across the continent.With stories coming in of broken axles,missed hire car bookings,forgotton bar pads anx putting diesel in a petrol car.Everyone made it in good health so thats a positive.
Friday afternon bring scrutinerring and isnt there some nice pre78 bikes.Personal touchs show in chain guards of all types.Quick shades take up every space.
The track is modern though the jumps hsve been squared at the tops.Its very similer to Southern Cross in WA,soil type etc can be seen on Peter Kitchingham Photography site.
Cold mornings,glourois sunsets and warm days bring a superb weekend.
Alan Smith and his team have done an outstanding job for PRE78 NNationals.
Cheers A
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Where does anyone start on the subject of scrutineering,maybe it should be a sacred word or maybe MA should start handing MOM's back out again,which ever way I reckon medications need to be readily available to listen to the stories that filter in after the day.
Wish we lived in the perfect bike world.
With that day over and a warm night ,pits now full it's 'race day one'.
A lot of class's with low numbers are in the same races,which fills the gate better,of course it's a shame they are not full.You should be here :) ;)
My suggestion for National events was for combined Championships post/classic to be held on west and south coast.with individual being on east coast.just an idea.
Well heading out to take some more pics of the superb bikes of the pre78 era.
Cheers for now A
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Have a fantastic weekend Allison. Did the Honda pass scrutineering ok? Roost on!
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best of luck to all the wa boys and girls wish i was there, were you posting the photos on facebook
cheers
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Here's some pics on facebook :) https://www.facebook.com/260528453981099/photos/pb.260528453981099.-2207520000.1408749462./827856707248268/?type=3&theater
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Fantastic thread, Steve and A.
How much would it take to buy this?
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/10634044_827509280616344_6315005469_zps9bb7edac.jpg~original)
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cheers for that smed
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Track is fast flowing in places and gives many opportunities to pass ,going to be a cracker event.
Some of these riders are going hammer and tongs,on the big bikes :P
Apparently the timing/scoring is via Orion..
Re:Mick the banner,I'll ask ;) since I'm here - first dibs :)
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Track is fast flowing in places and gives many opportunities to pass ,going to be a cracker event.
Some of these riders are going hammer and tongs,on the big bikes :P
Apparently the timing/scoring is via Orion..
Re:Mick the banner,I'll ask ;) since I'm here - first dibs :)
Thank you :), worth a try
I would be happy to pay/donate its value
I would love to see such a thing on display at NSW meetings
I reckon it would be a great backdrop for Diana's photography on the Podium presentations ;D
Worth a try anyhow ;)
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Track is fast flowing in places and gives many opportunities to pass ,going to be a cracker event.
Some of these riders are going hammer and tongs,on the big bikes :P
Apparently the timing/scoring is via Orion..
Re:Mick the banner,I'll ask ;) since I'm here - first dibs :)
Thank you :), worth a try
I would be happy to pay/donate its value
I would love to see such a thing on display at NSW meetings
I reckon it would be a great backdrop for Diana's photography on the Podium presentations ;D
Worth a try anyhow ;)
I'll bit Mick! I assume or hope you are taking the piss ::)
The banner was taken down to SA by Carl and has been at several Nationals. It is at almost every one of our meetinsg along with four others. There were four along the fence at Gloucester.
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Thanks for the heads up Greg.
I had a lot on my mind at Gloucester as you know, didn't notice it.
I assumed/thought it was an heirloom that may have somehow found its way into a parallel state/universe as a memento :o
I had intended to pay the ransom and donate it back to Heaven, no need now, as said thanks for the heads up ;)
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Are you suggesting something like this for the presentations
(http://i1317.photobucket.com/albums/t631/uNeekiMages001/Heaven%20VMX%202013%20RD%207%20Lakes%20Presentation/Image00142_zps0d57da38.jpg)
;) ;) ;D
Sorry Mick couldn't help myself :-X
The banners at Gloucester were naturally on the spectator side of the fence. Yes I know you were lacking a little of your normal sparkle for all things VMX at Gloucester and understandably so.
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My wallet will never become a meeting place for moths, that's for sure ::)
Although, I am hell impressed that you have helped me keep it shut for a brief moment ;D
Now stop giggling at my expense please ::) ::)
PS; that looks fantastic
(http://i1317.photobucket.com/albums/t631/uNeekiMages001/Heaven%20VMX%202013%20RD%207%20Lakes%20Presentation/Image00142_zps0d57da38.jpg)
Now back to work on that BSA conquering, Maico works stead ;D
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My BSA is becoming the never ending story :o Seems it is one small step forward and two large steps back ::)
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My BSA is becoming the never ending story :o Seems it is one small step forward and two large steps back ::)
Yeah, well, that's what I am hoping for, that it looks like its stepping backwoods when I give the mighty Maico some stick
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D it all starts with a dream ;D 8)
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Why would I have my BSA in the backwoods? :P. I just hope it does not run backwards :-X or worse still the forks part company :o
Sorry again, slow day at the coal face ::)
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I was trying to give you some hope,,,,
Although the wrong direction,,,wouldn't backwoods still be heaps faster than the last time you straddled a BSA??
I heard the last time you rode a BSA, that you accidentally lent on the fully catastrophic self destruct button::) :o
;D ;D ;D
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http://www.orion-timing.com/results.htm
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Twas a great day for the XL and rider though the timing needs a bit of a tweek why touch something if its running fine at the time !!
Windy day with yhe night the same.
Nice to catch up with new and old forum members,top community 8)
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Thanks for the update Aunty ...... looking at the laps scores there are a few DNF by a few of the guns ???
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Limped though sunday with a badly damaged lower tubes.Jumps where lower in last few races. :P
Someone mentioned "oh thats how i broke my leg" encouraging words :P
She still needs find tuning,but heading home with positive results.
BIG thanks to the people of Port Augusta,great to be there and make the journey with other vmx folk. 8)
Cheers A
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Might be time to send off for that C and J chassis pamphlet... ;)
Well done once again, Melvins ! 8)
And thanks heaps for the nats updates on here and various facebook sites Alison, on behalf of countless folk who wish they'd been there, you are a star x
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Ditto what Glen said ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Cheers, know when i miss a big event i look forward to the updates. :) :P
Back to the frame department.Subman took two years to come across his nice c&j pearlier from USA..
Any thoughts on mojo or faber frames ???
Cheers us2 wa/via sa
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Which frame are you talking about, his original red bike or the black one he finished around the time of his diagnosis?
Hard to believe it will be a year next month since his passing
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I have the black '74 C&J that Tony built & a lovely bike it is . Unfortunately I have trashed the gearbox - ripped all the dogs off 3rd gear - does anyone have any bright ideas on how to stop that happening again ?
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Which frame are you talking about, his original red bike or the black one he finished around the time of his diagnosis?
Hard to believe it will be a year next month since his passing
Which ever comes passing by first. :P :)
Yes, one year ~ way fast.
Would of been very valuable to have more added knowledge from Tony's racing experiences if not cut short.
I have the black '74 C&J that Tony built & a lovely bike it is . Unfortunately I have trashed the gearbox - ripped all the dogs off 3rd gear - does anyone have any bright ideas on how to stop that happening again ?
250 gear box.Primary ratio drive closer together. Ours was made up set, from vmxer in Victoria.
Cheers us2 WA
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Mojo frames are drop dead gorgeous......I dont think you could do better..just need them to do the right one for you, no idea what they cost though...excuse whilst I stop drooling thinking about them...
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I have the black '74 C&J that Tony built & a lovely bike it is . Unfortunately I have trashed the gearbox - ripped all the dogs off 3rd gear - does anyone have any bright ideas on how to stop that happening again ?
Look at fitting an XR 200 rear wheel
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Whats the xr200 rear wheel Slakey..?? Not as heavy ?
Cheers
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Whats the xr200 rear wheel Slakey..?? Not as heavy ?
Cheers
Just about any wheel is lighter than the XL original , XR 200 also has some rubber damping so will help with the gear box issues. I used a YZ wheel in mine but I only ran an 310 motor.
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I have the black '74 C&J that Tony built & a lovely bike it is . Unfortunately I have trashed the gearbox - ripped all the dogs off 3rd gear - does anyone have any bright ideas on how to stop that happening again ?
If you use a centre port gearbox ..third and fourth gears are stronger..or you can weld a steel ring to the side port chocolate ones ..
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Ditched my XL rear wheel think saved 8 ib or something crazy
merry xmas Alason, steve and family from Kiwi klub Kevlar
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Whats the xr200 rear wheel Slakey..?? Not as heavy ?
Cheers
Just about any wheel is lighter than the XL original , XR 200 also has some rubber damping so will help with the gear box issues. I used a YZ wheel in mine but I only ran an 310 motor.
Slakey do you know if the xr200 rear will also fit a 74 CR250?