OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Kawasaki => Topic started by: Expat on August 23, 2008, 05:35:12 pm
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Are there any '74 KX450's being raced competitively in Aus?
Just wondering if these things can run with the best open class Euros if set up properly.
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there has been a couple raced up here in qld in the past
but not lately :'(
they are quite a good bike
just need a bit of setup on suspension
power wise they are ok :o
not as quick as a husky 400 or maico 400 ::)
different sort of power
more tractor like
but you can get them to go
brad lackey used to race one 8)
and he is no slouch 8)
most people just collect them now :'(
i have a 75 kx400 which i am going to race when i finish her ;D
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Expat,
They are a decent bike. Quite light & very torquey. A mate had one converted for a trailbike back in the day. I rode it back then & my memories are of the considerable torque & light weight (& average suspension). Porting is very mild. 400 (75-6) version revved higher & consequently made more top end.
Frame geometry is pretty good. Originally designed & built by C&J. But forks need lots of help - at least a PD valve/cartidge simulator. Or replace w something better. They're 34mm, but I don't recall any good 34mm forks of the day, tho some claimed the 34mm F11 forks were OK. Can ream out the triples & run 35mm betors, cerianis, CZ etc (or perhaps even suzuki/honda w a bit of revalving). My choice would be betor. (I'm an old bultaco man) That's what Lackey ran quite a bit.
Qld's top gun back in the day raced one of these & a 250 Maico for importer Brisk Sales & he won everywhere. I saw him at Bundaberg on them, & even against Greg Hansford on the YZ & Stan Veenstra on the "snore, he creamed them easily on a very testing track. Probably be easier to fing one of these than a Mk 7 360 Pursang.
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The top gun you refer to in those days was Tom Gibson - used to ride a GYT kitted DTI before the Kawasakis - rode a 125 Kawasaki as well. I had quite a few rides against him and Stan Veenstra (who's a good old Mackay product ) over the years. Great fun!
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Mike,
It was actually John Walmsley. He was one of my heros (until he started selling & riding suzukis which I didn't like at the time).
I saw Tom racing a 100cc Kaw Centurion a couple of time in the early 70s & he was very quick on that at the time - it suited his small frame. I never saw him on a KX450. He worked for Brisk sales as I recall, & was more famous for his dirt-tracking, roadracing, & wearing the Qld # 1 plate for many years. A mate came 2nd to him when Tom was on a KX125 in the 125 state MX title one year (c 74?). Believe it or not my mate was on a CZ125! It was a v muddy day/track - the only way a CZ125 could have done that!
Anyway, JW certainly did some winning on the KX450 tho.
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A small number of KX450s have appeared spasmodically in pre '75 over the last 20 years and are reasonably competitive. There weren't many sold back in '74 so they are comparitively rare when compared to othe Japanese makes. The forks were made by Hatta and as Kawboy alludes to, were dismal at best. Kawasaki based their early advertising pitch around the multi adjustability of these forks, trying to convince us that they were the ducks guts when in reality they were bloody hopeless. The multiple adjustability didn't make diddly difference, no matter what settings were used. Even the awful steel bodied DT1 Yamaha forks were better. However with the availability of pd valves and cartridge emulators from YSS or Gold Valve, I'm sure you could get them working OK.
On the track the 450 has a surprisingly soft bottom end, possibly due to the light 250 based flywheels but it comes on bigtime on the transition into mid and last right through the range. They turn pretty well for a 70s era Jap bike but do suffer from a reasonably scary bit of headshake on long straights. Overall, they are way off the Euro open class bikes of the era but were pretty good when compared to the Japanese opposition. The ergos are great. Brakes and wheels are first rate but the shocks are shit but have probably been replaced by now anyway.
Another problem with the 450 was parts supply. Because the bikes were in such a limited release back in '74, the parts supply was also limited in relation to the small bike numbers and have long since dried up. I recall that at one stage during the early nineties one racer had a worldwide search for a piston and failed to find one. That was in the days before eBay and the emergence of the many www based vintage parts suppliers so the situation may haveimproved since then.
I know it's purely a taste thing and doesn't mean much overall but the thing that puts me off are the KX450s the cobby looks highlighted by the horrible pea soup green plastic tank colour. Thankfully forum regular Leith Codrington (LWC3077) showed us how to get the tank looking spic'n'span in VMX #33.
I think that it was Jimmy Weinert that rode works Kawasaki 450s (see below). The bike shown is very different to the production model. I may be wrong but I think that Brad Lackey rode a works rotary valved 500 based on the 350 Bighorn engine in '71 or '72.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/kx450.jpg)
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Thank you gentlemen.
I will give a KX450 a go if anyone hears of one for sale.
MK 7 Pursang 360 is still being hunted ....
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Kawboy, I stand corrected. Put it down to old age & too much rough red.
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Thats OK Mike; didn't mean to embarrass you.
My memory ain't too hot on a lot of things, but I do remember things related to Kaws & Maicos cos I've been a fan of them ever since I saw Tom Gibson & John Walmsely racing them in the early 70s. Almost seems like yesterday.
Mark, the dreaded hatta forks were on the 350 bighorn, not the KX450. The KX450 forks were more like the F11 250's (tho not exactly the same) - they didn't have all that adjustment. But y're right - what a load of rubbish they were. I still can't believe that an engineer would put his name to them, or that Kaw would have bought it. Hatta was a disgrace to the engineering race in my opinion. All that adjustability showed a fundamental misunderstanding of matters affecting steering, & the damping characteristics were a long way off too as I recall.
Last I heard pistons for 450s were nearly impossible to come by, but as Mark says they maybe more available on ebay.
Mark, where is that article on Weinerts 450 (above) taken from? I've seen the photo before, but I'd like to read the article.
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John...It was in the AMA magazine in Nov 2004. I haven't got a copy, I googled the photo.
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expat ive sent you the guys phone number with the 74 kx 450
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It would be great to see one of these circulating; what's your motivation?
It doesn't sound an ideal VMXer if you're out there to win, but for reliving an era on a rare-ish bike then it's gunna pull some stares.
There's not a lot of green going around, and certainly few of these. :'(
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I have only seen one in WA and that was extra quick - but then that may have been the maniac on board to!!!
Rossco
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motorcycles___1974-kx450-kawasaki-motocross-dirtbike_W0QQitemZ260278624456QQddnZMotorcyclesQQddiZ2283QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260278624456&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
Rossco
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Expat,
I have a very good 74 KX450 that i would consider selling, I have some spares including nos piston & rod kit, 75 KX front end.
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That'd sure be worth a look.
Gents, I don't see why the KX couldn't be made into a very good pre75 weapon. Apart from the ugly colour that Mark mentions (which didn't help them sell), they look 'right' - right proportions, ergonomics, rake/trail, weight distribution, wheelbase, frame design etc, & as the saying goes w race bikes, what looks sight usually is right (or at least is well on the way to being right).
For my money, as much as it pains me to say so (cos I love euro-bikes) it looks more 'right' than nearly all the euro big-bores. Little wonder - picture a 74 TM125 tank & 400 Suz barrell (stroke only 1mm diff, but stud spacing quite diff) & spot the diff from an 74 RN400 at 20 paces!! The blood-line appears to me to be uncanny.
Seems to me Lackey & co proved their worth beyond doubt in 72-73. No doubt his bike was better, but the similarity to the prod'n bike is striking (& Lackey admits it in VMX # 12). His bike appears to be more or less a pre-prod'n F12M (which they only made about 200 of, but it was the forerunner to the KX & very much like it)
Of course, you'd have to junk the suspension. The 36mm forks should be pre-75 legal cos both the 73 F11M & 74 KX 250s ran 36mm forks. 35mm Betors are another nice option (which Lackey & co often rode with)
Personally I think the press of the day was scared of the 450 (based on their experience of the TM400 & SC500). I recall one test caption rang out, "Hey bike, come back here!" One or two tests read like what Mark describes above, but others were totally different. Ironically one of the former type reports was written by Ray Ryan. He likened it to a giant sized elsinore. The bike he rode was an ex Team Kaw Aus race bike, so who knows what might have been touched up inside. And by the time he wrote VMX #12 his description was markedly different.
The mate's one I rode was nothing like that. It may have been tamed by a heavier flywheel cos it was set up as an enduro bike & registered (it made a great enduro bike except for the down pipe, but even the g'box ratios suited enduros well). But I vaguely recall you only had to put a lighting coil under the existing flywheel to do that. (I'm trying to check part nos on that). With a g'box ratio spread of 3:1, top speed on an MX course should be little short of breath-taking if geared appropriately.
For what its worth, I'd have described the power much more like a tractor, as other tests of the day did, & so too did Jim Cooke in VMx #12. He apparently rode a box stock 450 in the AMA 500 championship one year w several top 5 placings. I vaguely recall photos of the day which would verify that (hammerhead shocks & all!). He was more a suppported rider than a full works rider like Lackey, Desoto & Weinert. Wyman Priddy did pretty well on one (stocker) too. By the time Weinert was on board (& Lackey & Desoto were gone), the bike he won the championship on (c 74? - pictured above in Marks post) was very diff to prod'n KX.
The porting specs of the KX are very mild w durations of 176 deg for Ex, 111deg for trans & a measly 142deg for inlet. That's trail bike specs! And look at that loooong pipe. It screams broad powerband. They simply relied on raw cubic capacity for power. The best description I think is Jim Cookes in VMX #12 (go read) - a tractor you could ride all day in 3rd gear even in fairly tight corners. Well, maybe thats a bit of hyperbole.
Seems to me they could be made as good as any euro big-bore of the day w a little work that fairly easily done these days. I know that sounds like heresy, but I always did swim against the tide if there was good reason to do so. The fundamentals are there. They were very light for their day too. Dare I say, they could have been a cheap-skates RN?? Alright, perhaps thats hyperbole too. (Pls don't tear me to shreds)
The 400cc version of this engine in 75 was a better engine w 1000 rpm more on top, & the barrell slips right on (but of course its not pre75 legal in OZ - it is in US), but that makes me really wonder about fitting a 400 Suz top end which would be legal. It shouldn't be insurmountable difficulties.
There are more of them around than you think - quite a few in Qld if yr moving in the right circles. (Brisk Sales sold quite a few, mostly as enduros w lights.) But I'm not sure they get taken out to play much.
Brian Cox raced one many times at the Nats. Anyone know how he went?
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I'm onto it ;).....
Watch this space....
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Kawboy,
My KX450 was owned by Brian Cox, he sold it to Simon Healy who sold it to me.
Brian stopped racing in the Vic series about three years ago, still speak to him by phone.
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Thanks Pigmy.
Do you know how he went on it at the Nats over the years?
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Brian was fast in the vic series on the 450, his son also raced one of Brian's 450's a fews years back.
Not sure what results he acheived at the titles
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I have a NOS front sprocket cover for a KX 450 (not sure if it fits the 400 as well)
Open to offers but would like to swap for a 1974/75/76 KX 125 front sprocket cover .
PM me with details or if you have a KX 125 cover to sell thanks Bill.
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the 211kwaka input is
I raced one last weekend, its fast and compeditive for dirt track but the gear box is dodgy. My one lunched itself on the Sunday (dont know yet hav'nt pulled it down). Have a spare engine in the shed as an organ donor for it :)
I like the rarity of the things, kind of kwirky but dont consider it for MX, has the worst front end on it on any bike I own and Ive spent hours on it trying to get it better to no avail. :'(
211
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Yeh, thats about how I recall the front forks too - very harsh. Should be able to fit later damper rods tho from other 34mm dia forks w decent damping (IT175D/E/F??) shortened to 7" travel &/or cartridge simulator.
Or fit betor forks. Factory guys of the day often ran betors.
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211
Every bike has its flaws, If you like Kawasaki's you live with the flaws and work to improve the bike over time, the 450 engine is solid & reliable
The KX450 i owned had no gearbox problems.
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Mike,
It was actually John Walmsley. He was one of my heros (until he started selling & riding suzukis which I didn't like at the time).
I saw Tom racing a 100cc Kaw Centurion a couple of time in the early 70s & he was very quick on that at the time - it suited his small frame. I never saw him on a KX450. He worked for Brisk sales as I recall, & was more famous for his dirt-tracking, roadracing, & wearing the Qld # 1 plate for many years. A mate came 2nd to him when Tom was on a KX125 in the 125 state MX title one year (c 74?). Believe it or not my mate was on a CZ125! It was a v muddy day/track - the only way a CZ125 could have done that!
Anyway, JW certainly did some winning on the KX450 tho.
John Walmsley's KX450 (with No.1 plate - not JW riding it though)
(http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/IT400C/KX450/KX450-1.jpg)
and an enduroised KX450 (I think it's the 450)
(http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo184/IT400C/KX450/EnduroizedKX450-1.jpg)
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(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-4/1252864/Wyman%20Priddy%20endo.jpg)
JC mentioned Wyman Priddy in an earlier post . Here is a photo of him on a KX450, taken in Texas in late '73. He must of been ahead of his time, because it looks like he is doing a Bubba scrub and waving to the crowd at the same time :o. Actually, this crash probably would have hurt a bit . He finished 3rd in the '72 AMA 500cc nationals and is listed in a Jody Weisel article about the most memorable people in motocross. Wyman Priddy died of a heart attack in 1982.
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i've got a mk 7 360 good cond ( race ready ) with new sleeve an piston might be interested in doing a deal with a kx 450 . just thought i'd trow out there to what interest I might get
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Jim Felt, builds felt bicycles now, had the pleasure in meeting with him at the royal exhibition bulding years ago, we a great talk about his bikes and him involvement with the motocross over the years.