OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vinduro => Topic started by: Nathan S on December 01, 2014, 01:57:08 pm
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Been chewing on this for a while...
Is there a problem? Is it big enough to do something about?
Personally, from what I've seen, virtually all of the faster riders will happily sit back at least until the slower rider has a chance to let them past. Usually there will be a call of "thanks" when the faster rider goes past.
The flip side is that sometimes much slower riders want to race - they speed up and get loose and are still in the way (and yes, I now realise that I've been that guy at times in the past :-[ ).
What's the other side of the story? Is there really a problem that I haven't seen?
I heard of a complaint at a recent event where a rider apparently went off the track to pass a slower rider, and the slower rider complained to an official about it?!
Educate me.
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As far as fast guys upsetting slow guys and vice versa I'm sure it could be sorted out with your fists. Leave the organisers to organise and the men will deal with that stuff accordingly.There are very few rules and we don't want any more.
As long as you are under .05 Sunday arvo for the drive home all is good ;D
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Without the slow guys the fast guys would just be guys ;D
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It's not about rules Ted, it's about etiquette.
As well as riders being fast or slow there is also the level of experience of riding with others.
Most faster guys usually have a bit of patience and wait there chance to pass, some will get carried away trying to catch there mate.
I would also recommend slower riders not getting too self-conscious about pulling over to let guys past in the tight sections as I have seen a few end up stuck in ditches from pulling over at the wrong moment.
I heard of a complaint at a recent event where a rider apparently went off the track to pass a slower rider, and the slower rider complained to an official about it?!
Sounds like someone thought they were quicker than what they really were, officials should have dismissed it, it's not a race so you should be able to do what is necessary to pass some one cleanly.
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Without the slow guys the fast guys would just be guys ;D
Well said!
In my experience as the slow guy most riders will be OK if they know that you know they are there and are making an effort the clear the trail. If however said 'gun' rider is trying to make my life miserable when theres obviously nowhere to stop I'll do my best to roost 'em at any opportunity! Don't have to be fast to hurl rocks.......
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Once a rider said to me , when a faster rider comes along you are meant to move over. As I explained to him at the time when one comes along I will.
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In the past if someone is obviously quicker that me I move over ASAP and expect the same from others .
As Nathan says its annoying if slower riders want to race you but I find a Banzai pass usually sorts that out and if they don't like that when we get back to the pits then Teds method works ;D
Im talking Enduros and in test , I don't know about Vinduros ? they are non competitive I believe ? so I suppose a gentler approach could be used.
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Without the slow guys the fast guys would just be guys ;D
For sure and unless your Toby price or Shane watts then there will generally always be someone faster, but its the slower rider who when come upon by a faster rider then wants to be a hero and race or wont move over that is the problem .
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Hmmmm....
Being a 'fast guy' is a relative term, in some riding groups you will be fast and in others you will be slow. That's something we all need to accept unless you are one of those gifted / talented bastards that are always fast and have the house full of trophies to prove it (maybe overflow of them in the shed as well).
In all situations, if someone catches up to me, I let them through, as quickly as possible, I'll also give them a sign like a leg out to show the side to pass etc. I don't care if I’m in a special test or not, if someone catches you that means they are riding faster than you. Simple, don't penalise someone else (unless I happen to be riding with them, in a group, then I'll make'em work for it)
As you say Nathan, some do want to play when you catch them and to me that means do whatever it takes to pass, just stopping short of punting them into the bushes. There are those amongst us as in the wider community, that are blissfully unaware of their actions and impacts on others, this group you need to let them know you are behind them, it usually takes a bit of reving and shouting, then they snap back to reality and move aside. Unfortunately there is another group where they appear to not give a toss about riders behind them and carry on riding at wobbler (relative term remember) pace and not want to let you pass, these guys get the 'special' moves from me and are the only group that do not receive a thank you shout.
I attended a recent Vinduro where the 'no rules' motto led to at least 15-20 minutes of rules and notifications! Specific instruction was given on both how to and not to pass a fellow vinduro rider. Curiously, it appeared that the slower rider had right of way? Perhaps I misinterpreted these instructions, but I very much doubt it. (And before the mob starts - yes I will vote with my feet, don't come, start my own club, take my bat and ball, etc etc)
Safety was the catch cry I heard a lot. Yet no one checked to see if my 19whatthef%ckever bucket of bolts had brakes, had a throttle that returned to its off position, any spokes left that weren't loose or foot pegs that would return via spring action rather than 12" shifter.
Rider etiquette is simple - If someone catches you, get out of the way - quickly. No matter what form of riding :), unless you can handle the impending overtake manoeuvre.
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Hmmmm....
Being a 'fast guy' is a relative term, in some riding groups you will be fast and in others you will be slow. That's something we all need to accept unless you are one of those gifted / talented bastards that are always fast and have the house full of trophies to prove it (maybe overflow of them in the shed as well).
In all situations, if someone catches up to me, I let them through, as quickly as possible, I'll also give them a sign like a leg out to show the side to pass etc. I don't care if I’m in a special test or not, if someone catches you that means they are riding faster than you. Simple, don't penalise someone else (unless I happen to be riding with them, in a group, then I'll make'em work for it)
As you say Nathan, some do want to play when you catch them and to me that means do whatever it takes to pass, just stopping short of punting them into the bushes. There are those amongst us as in the wider community, that are blissfully unaware of their actions and impacts on others, this group you need to let them know you are behind them, it usually takes a bit of reving and shouting, then they snap back to reality and move aside. Unfortunately there is another group where they appear to not give a toss about riders behind them and carry on riding at wobbler (relative term remember) pace and not want to let you pass, these guys get the 'special' moves from me and are the only group that do not receive a thank you shout.
I attended a recent Vinduro where the 'no rules' motto led to at least 15-20 minutes of rules and notifications! Specific instruction was given on both how to and not to pass a fellow vinduro rider. Curiously, it appeared that the slower rider had right of way? Perhaps I misinterpreted these instructions, but I very much doubt it. (And before the mob starts - yes I will vote with my feet, don't come, start my own club, take my bat and ball, etc etc)
Safety was the catch cry I heard a lot. Yet no one checked to see if my 19whatthef%ckever bucket of bolts had brakes, had a throttle that returned to its off position, any spokes left that weren't loose or foot pegs that would return via spring action rather than 12" shifter.
Rider etiquette is simple - If someone catches you, get out of the way - quickly. No matter what form of riding :), unless you can handle the impending overtake manoeuvre.
Agree 100%
I particularly like this bit ;D
I attended a recent Vinduro where the 'no rules' motto led to at least 15-20 minutes of rules and notifications!
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Hmmmm....
Being a 'fast guy' is a relative term, in some riding groups you will be fast and in others you will be slow. That's something we all need to accept unless you are one of those gifted / talented bastards that are always fast and have the house full of trophies to prove it (maybe overflow of them in the shed as well).
In all situations, if someone catches up to me, I let them through, as quickly as possible, I'll also give them a sign like a leg out to show the side to pass etc. I don't care if I’m in a special test or not, if someone catches you that means they are riding faster than you. Simple, don't penalise someone else (unless I happen to be riding with them, in a group, then I'll make'em work for it)
As you say Nathan, some do want to play when you catch them and to me that means do whatever it takes to pass, just stopping short of punting them into the bushes. There are those amongst us as in the wider community, that are blissfully unaware of their actions and impacts on others, this group you need to let them know you are behind them, it usually takes a bit of reving and shouting, then they snap back to reality and move aside. Unfortunately there is another group where they appear to not give a toss about riders behind them and carry on riding at wobbler (relative term remember) pace and not want to let you pass, these guys get the 'special' moves from me and are the only group that do not receive a thank you shout.
I attended a recent Vinduro where the 'no rules' motto led to at least 15-20 minutes of rules and notifications! Specific instruction was given on both how to and not to pass a fellow vinduro rider. Curiously, it appeared that the slower rider had right of way? Perhaps I misinterpreted these instructions, but I very much doubt it. (And before the mob starts - yes I will vote with my feet, don't come, start my own club, take my bat and ball, etc etc)
Safety was the catch cry I heard a lot. Yet no one checked to see if my 19whatthef%ckever bucket of bolts had brakes, had a throttle that returned to its off position, any spokes left that weren't loose or foot pegs that would return via spring action rather than 12" shifter.
Rider etiquette is simple - If someone catches you, get out of the way - quickly. No matter what form of riding :), unless you can handle the impending overtake manoeuvre.
Bulls#!T XC83 DONT SEE YOU PULLING OVER WHEN YOUR WOBBLING YOUR WAY ROUND THE COURSE!!!
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Bulls#!T XC83 DONT SEE YOU PULLING OVER WHEN YOUR WOBBLING YOUR WAY ROUND THE COURSE!!!
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I'm surprised you can see anything back that far Odd1!
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Its hard to know which side to pass you with arms and legs flapping around every where!!!
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Hmmmm....
Being a 'fast guy' is a relative term, in some riding groups you will be fast and in others you will be slow. That's something we all need to accept unless you are one of those gifted / talented bastards that are always fast and have the house full of trophies to prove it (maybe overflow of them in the shed as well).
In all situations, if someone catches up to me, I let them through, as quickly as possible, I'll also give them a sign like a leg out to show the side to pass etc. I don't care if I’m in a special test or not, if someone catches you that means they are riding faster than you. Simple, don't penalise someone else (unless I happen to be riding with them, in a group, then I'll make'em work for it)
As you say Nathan, some do want to play when you catch them and to me that means do whatever it takes to pass, just stopping short of punting them into the bushes. There are those amongst us as in the wider community, that are blissfully unaware of their actions and impacts on others, this group you need to let them know you are behind them, it usually takes a bit of reving and shouting, then they snap back to reality and move aside. Unfortunately there is another group where they appear to not give a toss about riders behind them and carry on riding at wobbler (relative term remember) pace and not want to let you pass, these guys get the 'special' moves from me and are the only group that do not receive a thank you shout.
I attended a recent Vinduro where the 'no rules' motto led to at least 15-20 minutes of rules and notifications! Specific instruction was given on both how to and not to pass a fellow vinduro rider. Curiously, it appeared that the slower rider had right of way? Perhaps I misinterpreted these instructions, but I very much doubt it. (And before the mob starts - yes I will vote with my feet, don't come, start my own club, take my bat and ball, etc etc)
Safety was the catch cry I heard a lot. Yet no one checked to see if my 19whatthef%ckever bucket of bolts had brakes, had a throttle that returned to its off position, any spokes left that weren't loose or foot pegs that would return via spring action rather than 12" shifter.
Rider etiquette is simple - If someone catches you, get out of the way - quickly. No matter what form of riding :), unless you can handle the impending overtake manoeuvre.
Being "fast" is indeed a "relative" term. We all ride at our own pace and it just so happens that some are faster than others. Whether in a competitive Enduro or just out having fun at a Vinduro.....if someone faster than you comes along....move out of the way so everyone can enjoy the ride at a speed that they enjoy..... Otherwise, things to turn to crap all too often :)
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Being "fast" is indeed a "relative" term. We all ride at our own pace and it just so happens that some are faster than others. Whether in a competitive Enduro or just out having fun at a Vinduro.....if someone faster than you comes along....move out of the way so everyone can enjoy the ride at a speed that they enjoy..... Otherwise, things to turn to crap all too often :)
Agree, everybody is there to enjoy themselves in this instance is a non competitive event.
Someone comes up move to the side as soon as is safe and let them pee off into the distance and get back to enjoying myself.. :)
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I didn't want this to be one-sided. Obviously there are some people out there who are intimidated by faster riders - it would be good to hear the other side of the story.
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as a rider who passes and is passed I feel its always an issue when u come upon aslower rider in the tight stuff and it always seems your riding mate just gets by before the scrub tightens up. I feel I have no choice than to wait till the china boat notices and either pulls over or the terrain opens up.
unfortunately, some times you arrive upon a slower rider with significantly more pace and you take a quick dive pass only to find that the track turns, a stump etc shows up and an infringement on the other riders space occurs. in a race its tough t's but in a vinnie, its apologies all round.
i'll always get out the way of a quicker rider and then try as best I can to hang on...trying to outride a quicker rider is inexcusable (your allowed for a couple of hundred metres ::))
but there is always someone who feels infringed by a blast pass and tries to make a fuss....that why Ego is not a dirty word.....
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I didn't want this to be one-sided. Obviously there are some people out there who are intimidated by faster riders - it would be good to hear the other side of the story.
It's bloody annoying to come up to someone who is riding a lot slower than you are, only for them to persist in trying to stay in front of you no matter what line they have to take. Even more so in competitive events. If you leave the time keeper at 20, 30, 40 second intervals and you get caught, surely that has to mean you are riding slower than the person behind you?
Thing is, I don't think the slower guys and gals realise that when you're on the gas and you have to slow dramatically, it puts you out of your rhythm and you start to hit every obstacle hard, rather than floating or jumping over it like you did before you had to slow for 10 minutes because there is nowhere to pass safely at speed.
Crikey, it can't be that hard to move over and let a faster rider pass
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::) sometimes to get past "anyone" you just need to make a course adjustment. "Simple" no one get's antsipancy about getting showered in shit and as a result all bitter and twisted etc.
God forbid that you make any dust as you zip by.
I hear for release at Xmas " perfect timing " there is a new Welsh publication called "Course Cutting" for the beginner to intermediate rider with a 5.00 buck upgrade for the additional section for discerning expert who has been away from the riding scene for sometime.. 8)
I beleive . "No i know" , the writer is a master at the art of course cutting and i ride with many riders , some reputed to be his best students that have graduated with honours from his master classes course and as of a few weeks ago i witnessed there skills .
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I didn't want this to be one-sided. Obviously there are some people out there who are intimidated by faster riders - it would be good to hear the other side of the story.
Slower riders enter and ride at the pace they feel safe at its not a race I pull over for quicker riders when its safe for me and them
I also put a leg out to let them know on which is safer for them to pass ..
TMB lighten up a bit that way we can all enjoy it Your comment is the reason I will not ride certain Vinduro's even thou I wold like
to
The Stig
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::) sometimes to get past "anyone" you just need to make a course adjustment. "Simple" no one get's antsipancy about getting showered in shit and as a result all bitter and twisted etc.
God forbid that you make any dust as you zip by.
I hear for release at Xmas " perfect timing " there is a new Welsh publication called "Course Cutting" for the beginner to intermediate rider with a 5.00 buck upgrade for the additional section for discerning expert who has been away from the riding scene for sometime.. 8)
I beleive . "No i know" , the writer is a master at the art of course cutting and i ride with many riders , some reputed to be his best students that have graduated with honours from his master classes course and as of a few weeks ago i witnessed there skills .
I've heard that the chapter on 'Acute & Reflex Angle of Attack and Coefficent of Restitution Outcomes or T-Boning your Mates' is a must read for any Vinduro pilot!
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The trouble is some people take quite a while to notice a bike behind them (hearing is not the best when you get older) and once they do notice it can take a while to find a safe place to move over if it is single track in the bush. Best to give then a friendly wave when they do move across and they will be more inclined to do the same in future. Shouting out in anger will just posts them off and give the more reason to stay in the way next time. If it is a competitve race then it's no holds barred!
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(Just)Guys its a Vinduro. There is no sheep station at the end, just all the way through. I agree with Geoff that its about ettiket so we need to respect our fellow riders whatever their foibles. I think we should promote a "Love thy (Husky) rider" slogan to increase our awareness. Ive been fast slow stupid and smart (maybe). I think we should all try to be smarter. Cheers (Bill)
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The answer to all this is simple, a bit of courtesy from both fast and slow riders, if your a grumpy dude who is going to get upset if your held up on your hot lap stay at home as these events are meant to be fun for everyone.
On the subject of grumpy the best way to kill enthusiasm for vinduro is negative crap on forums. If someone thinking of getting involved read this I would not be surprised if they gave it a miss. I know a lot of the comments are personal jokes between mates but it does not read well.
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Bill its hard to get past you when your lying down on the track blocking it!!
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The answer to all this is simple, a bit of courtesy from both fast and slow riders, if your a grumpy dude who is going to get upset if your held up on your hot lap stay at home as these events are meant to be fun for everyone.
On the subject of grumpy the best way to kill enthusiasm for vinduro is negative crap on forums. If someone thinking of getting involved read this I would not be surprised if they gave it a miss. I know a lot of the comments are personal jokes between mates but it does not read well.
What's fun for you may not be fun for me Chilly? Does grumpy come into the equation? Really?
As for jokes with your mates on a forum......
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In Motocross if I am in front of someone - yes has been a while - and they want to pass me it is up to them. I don't change lines, I don't pull over I keep doing what I was before they turned up - if they are good enough they can get past. Similarly if I come up upon someone slower - yes even longer ago ;D - the responsibility to safely pass is up to me - even more so in Enduro/Vinduro where sheep stations are not at risk and there is a lot more time than afforded in a 3 lap race.
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The answer to all this is simple, a bit of courtesy from both fast and slow riders, if your a grumpy dude who is going to get upset if your held up on your hot lap stay at home as these events are meant to be fun for everyone.
On the subject of grumpy the best way to kill enthusiasm for vinduro is negative crap on forums. If someone thinking of getting involved read this I would not be surprised if they gave it a miss. I know a lot of the comments are personal jokes between mates but it does not read well.
What's fun for you may not be fun for me Chilly? Does grumpy come into the equation? Really?
Grumpy sure does come into it, I have been told off severely for holding up a gun rider and been yelled at for overtaking too close. I just want vinduro to be a huge success, sorry if My comment upset anyone. I'll keep my mouth shut from now on and just enjoy the riding.
As for jokes with your mates on a forum......
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would this be the " style" your refering to HVA61 :D :D
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt18/ty4album/cookadinia%20sunday/815-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1.jpg) (http://s593.photobucket.com/user/ty4album/media/cookadinia%20sunday/815-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1.jpg.html)
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I usually ride as part of a three person team, and I'm usually tail end charlie, tootling along enjoying the scenery. Often times I don't hear those coming up behind. I hope you don't see that as malicious. In those events where I come up behind others, I wait for reasonable opportunity to pass.
I believe you shouldn't assume malice where stupidity could explain an action.
I've been in both situations, (fast and slow) and really enjoy the vinduro scene because it's not a competition. I'm having a ball!
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would this be the " style" your refering to HVA61 :D :D
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt18/ty4album/cookadinia%20sunday/815-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1.jpg) (http://s593.photobucket.com/user/ty4album/media/cookadinia%20sunday/815-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1.jpg.html)
That 'passing' line looks pretty well used! :D
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that's the line you 'HAVE " to take on those auto husky's when you shut the throttle down , next stop the lantana ;)
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The move shown in the picture above is called the "downhill inside slice" , a signature move of that particular rider.
Very effective and also notice the care taken in dust reduction by making the move on the inside grass section.
"Now that's a cut with care"
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Im a caring person
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The KTM rider looks shocked at this antic :o
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ktm rider is looking at the vectors, velocity and trajectory factors all pointing to that tree! :D ;D
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Slower riders enter and ride at the pace they feel safe at its not a race I pull over for quicker riders when its safe for me and them
I also put a leg out to let them know on which is safer for them to pass ..
TMB lighten up a bit that way we can all enjoy it Your comment is the reason I will not ride certain Vinduro's even thou I wold like
to
The Stig
I'm not about to abuse anybody in a non competitive environment Stig. As I suggested, enjoyment is all relative. Some people are out for a day sight seeing, which is fine. Others want to ride as fast as they know they can. That is what they enjoy about riding. And a Pre85 bike will always be faster than a pre75 bike.....
I wouldn't get all argy bargy out on any ride. Competitive or not. MX, Enduro or Vinduro. I want to go home with body and bike intact.....I'm just saying that it does get annoying when someone won't let a faster rider past, even when it is safe to do so. Believe me, I've had to let faster riders pass me and it doesn't bother me one bit that I had to stop (or slow) long enough for them to pass without holding them up. And both of us can continue on enjoying our ride at our own pace......
To me it's like that driver in front of you in the right hand lane doing 85 KM/h in a 100 zone who refuses to move to the left to let the faster cars past. Is it because they think if they are comfortable doing 15k's under the speed limit, then everybody should?
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I'll do my best to roost 'em at any opportunity! Don't have to be fast to hurl rocks..
I can vouch for CanAm370's ability to do this, as I have been on the receiving end of such a volley. I wasn't trying to pass him though. In fact we were both still in the parc ferme and the event hadn't started. Where's the flamin' etiquette there? :o
Tex
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To me it's like that driver in front of you in the right hand lane doing 85 KM/h in a 100 zone who refuses to move to the left to let the faster cars past. Is it because they think if they are comfortable doing 15k's under the speed limit, then everybody should?
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That's Gold!
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VERi has been studying this and it has been decided that what Vinduros need is a new rule to govern the etiquette needed.
It would be beneficial if all the states could adopt this ruling so as to have some uniformity throughout the nation.
I will be proposing this this is made clear at riders briefing in the future.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Misc%202/LetGeoffbye-2_zps9dc81389.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Misc%202/LetGeoffbye-2_zps9dc81389.jpg.html)
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Well, odd1 already seems to be a big fan of riding off into the trees and staying there.
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odd 1 is mainly a passenger from what ive seen...he starts of riding but is soon relegated to the passenger position :o
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Im always a passenger that way I get to enjoy the view
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VERi has been studying this and it has been decided that what Vinduros need is a new rule to govern the etiquette needed.
It would be beneficial if all the states could adopt this ruling so as to have some uniformity throughout the nation.
I will be proposing this this is made clear at riders briefing in the future.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Misc%202/LetGeoffbye-2_zps9dc81389.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Misc%202/LetGeoffbye-2_zps9dc81389.jpg.html)
I'm confused, do I wait a lap before I let you pass?
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Wouldn't wait a lap for Geoff he only does one!
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Geoff - I do not want to have to stop!
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Thats Geoff for ya - he'll 'bye' a lap so's he can get a medal without the effort! He always says you are better off spending your money on the things you can't do well so you can concentrate on the things you can do well yourself ::)
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Geoff on the "BMW" is like the fly, it sees everything in slow mo.....
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I'm pretty sure I've never passed anyone. J
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I consider myself ok, not fast, not slow. If I can pull over safely for a faster rider , I will. If I can't do it safely I'll hold my line & speed, the fast guy will have generally gotten past by then anyway. The minute someone starts screaming & yelling at me to move over, there's no way known that's happening. The screaming & yelling guy is obviously super fast in his mind & going for the trophy, as such he should be able to get past in a flash anyway.
K
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I think I passed someone whos motor was still running but it was that long ago now I cant remember what it was like.
Plenty pass me and its simple to get out of their way, maybe its a bit awkward some parts on the first or second lap but once you start to know the course its pretty easy to get out of the way.
I don’t hear faster bikes come up behind sometimes, a squirt on the throttle is whats needed.
Whats Vinduro about? We are getting more new guys coming along to Vinduro, faster riders need to get used to the mix. The guys turning up are not all A graders. They don’t hold MA race licences. Some might not have been too bad 20 or 30 years ago, or maybe always wanted to do this sort of thing back in the day or for whatever. They are there because they love those old enduro bikes and not just for show but to get out and use them.
If anyone wants to put on a proper Vintage Enduro Competitive Event that caters for "fast riders" then would there be enough entrants to make it viable? or maybe it would attract someone faster.
No matter the level we need everyone fast or slow because if not for the slower 50% of riders paying their entry, there would be no event.
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In my experience as the slow guy most riders will be OK if they know that you know they are there and are making an effort the clear the trail. If however said 'gun' rider is trying to make my life miserable when theres obviously nowhere to stop I'll do my best to roost 'em at any opportunity! Don't have to be fast to hurl rocks.......
Lol .. not so sure that's a good strategy Canam :) I think anyone that does that will end up getting what they deserve with that approach mate :) I suspect the next time the same rider approaches you he'll be thinking "I'm passing this roost-hurling b@#$ as fast as I can" and will then promptly carve you up and blow you off the track.
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I think I passed someone whos motor was still running but it was that long ago now I cant remember what it was like.
Plenty pass me and its simple to get out of their way, maybe its a bit awkward some parts on the first or second lap but once you start to know the course its pretty easy to get out of the way.
I don’t hear faster bikes come up behind sometimes, a squirt on the throttle is whats needed.
Whats Vinduro about? We are getting more new guys coming along to Vinduro, faster riders need to get used to the mix. The guys turning up are not all A graders. They don’t hold MA race licences. Some might not have been too bad 20 or 30 years ago, or maybe always wanted to do this sort of thing back in the day or for whatever. They are there because they love those old enduro bikes and not just for show but to get out and use them.
If anyone wants to put on a proper Vintage Enduro Competitive Event that caters for "fast riders" then would there be enough entrants to make it viable? or maybe it would attract someone faster.
No matter the level we need everyone fast or slow because if not for the slower 50% of riders paying their entry, there would be no event.
I totally agree, and its good to see someone considering it from the slower rider's point of view.
My question is: Are the slower riders being intimidated by the faster riders?
I had expected a few people to have a horror story about an old wobbler getting shunted, but nobody seems to have one yet?!
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My question is: Are the slower riders being intimidated by the faster riders?
I had expected a few people to have a horror story about an old wobbler getting shunted, but nobody seems to have one yet?!
Really? I think this would be pretty rare. Personally I think this whole "issue" is a storm in a teacup...
Tex
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I'm hoping you're right.
Personally, I can think of three times I've seen agro riding at a Vinduro. One of them - in hindsight - was possibly caused by me not letting the rider past.
The other two were both by the same rider, at the same event.
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"If anyone wants to put on a proper Vintage Enduro Competitive Event that caters for "fast riders" then would there be enough entrants to make it viable? or maybe it would attract someone faster."
Mick from EBT is trying to put together a competitive vinduro series for 2015...more cross country..seems to have strong initial interest...fast guys can apply!
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I'm hoping you're right.
Personally, I can think of three times I've seen agro riding at a Vinduro. One of them - in hindsight - was possibly caused by me not letting the rider past.
The other two were both by the same rider, at the same event.
So of all the Vinduro's you've ridden you've found 2 bad eggs...and one of them was you ;D ;D ;). I think we have little to worry about. Have a great Xmas everyone :)
Cheers, Brendan
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So of all the Vinduro's you've ridden you've found 2 bad eggs...and one of them was you ;D ;D ;). I think we have little to worry about. Have a great Xmas everyone :)
Cheers, Brendan
Well Zing! :)
Personally, I don't think there's a problem with rider etiquette at vinduros, but someone I respect has told me that there is one.
My intention with this thread was to go beyond my own experience, and hear from a variety of people.
To be entirely honest, I am surprised that the conversation has been so unanimous - although it does fit in with my own experiences and observations.
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I've only participated in an couple of Vinduro event and only one of those was timed.
My experience is that they are bloody brilliant bang for your buck .. the best in the Vintage scene. A more relaxed atmosphere than VMX and that's not saying VMX is bad, it's not, but just that the Vinduro scene is easier going in my humble opinion.
In those 2 rides, I've not had an issue with a) being passed, or b) passing someone else and to be honest, with the good comradery that I have been lucky enough to experience so far, I'm surprised it's an issue for anyone. If I hear someone coming behind that is obviously faster then I will take all steps necessary to safely let them by. Easy. If I happen to be approaching someone else then I will take all steps necessary to safely get by. Again, simple stuff :)
If a faster rider happens to short cut a corner to pass a slower rider then I would not have an issue with that because the alternative is likely to be a frustrated block pass where the faster rider jams it up the inside of the slower rider and that's not what we want is it?
Anyway I just wish we had more of them up this way. Our VMX scene is strong and it would be great to have a Vinduro scene that equalled that.
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In my experience as the slow guy most riders will be OK if they know that you know they are there and are making an effort the clear the trail. If however said 'gun' rider is trying to make my life miserable when theres obviously nowhere to stop I'll do my best to roost 'em at any opportunity! Don't have to be fast to hurl rocks.......
Lol .. not so sure that's a good strategy Canam :) I think anyone that does that will end up getting what they deserve with that approach mate :) I suspect the next time the same rider approaches you he'll be thinking "I'm passing this roost-hurling b@#$ as fast as I can" and will then promptly carve you up and blow you off the track.
Ahh Simo, you've missed the point! :D Misery loves company!
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Ahh Simo, you've missed the point! :D Misery loves company!
Yeah I must have missed a track marker there completely man :)
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Just to save time for next year I unreservedly apologies to anyone I pass, hold up, cause to crash etc etc, im sorry ok? lets leave it at that ;D
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The longer the loop the better (for Me, anyway ) ; generally more distance between riders ,
so I can usually ride around by myself most of the day , without bothering the faster or slower riders . :D
Regards ;
Steve
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And pick them up when they fall off!!!
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The longer the loop the better (for Me, anyway ) ; generally more distance between riders ,
so I can usually ride around by myself most of the day , without bothering the faster or slower riders . :D
Regards ;
Steve
What, you were thinking that the riding around by yourself thing was an accident?????? ;)
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And pick them up when they fall off!!!
"
Have to help them up when they are stuck ............... and blocking the "ONLY " line through ;)
Regards ,
Steve
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The longer the loop the better (for Me, anyway ) ; generally more distance between riders ,
so I can usually ride around by myself most of the day , without bothering the faster or slower riders . :D
Regards ;
Steve
What, you were thinking that the riding around by yourself thing was an accident?????? ;)
Yeah , I know :-[................No friends .....to ride around with :-X
Regards ,
Steve
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And there I was thinking you stopped to help well there you have no etiquette!!!
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It's an EQ thing ;D
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Yes Rider Etiquette should be shown for shoure .
Why .... I think that Vinduro / Trail Ride are for Fun and are a Social event ...
We are trying to get Riders Back to the Sport of Riding there Old Bike and To get New Bloke to come and Ride Old Bikes ...
and enjoy a Good Safe place to ride your Old Bike and a Few Beers and Meet some New Mates ..
I Have heard Riders say that they have Been uncomfortable with some of the Faster Riders on the Loop..
The Vinduro that I have Been involved in We have Mowed Trails 2 meters or more wide ..Trimmed Bushes to Make it Safe .
Now this makes it very Easy to make a pass its 2 meters wide or more ....ALL good..
But when it get down to the single trail 1 meter wide with Long grass.
or in the Bush with trees very close ..
or a Very rocky bit ..
or its a water crossing .
or its Boggy Mud.
Some one who is A Average rider will Bork at this ..
and This is where Rider etiquette come in ....
A Good rider will see that the Bloke dose Not have the experience of you.
All you Just need to do is give Him a Bit of Time or a Bit of Room. That all ...
It will Not hold you up that Much. Even if you are out to try and put in a few fast laps in .it wont be the End of the world . ..
Any way its Not a Race Its a Vinduro .. A Social event is it Not ....
I have Stopped and Help Many riders at Harrow, 3 Bridges, Cooka and the other Vinduro in N.S.W ..
and Blokes have Help Me out of a bad Place (Many Thanks )
Many Rides Come to Vinduro Because They DO NOT WANT to RACE and they just WANT TO RIDE and HAVE FUN..
They Don t ride in the Bush Because of 4x4 .
Don't do Ride parks because they want to ride with other Blokes with Old Bikes .
They don t want to go VMX Racing because of many thing .
Like they Don t like the Jumps or just don't want to do get Hurt
or smash up by some One who think is going to be the 1982 World Champion.
They Now have found Vinduro/ Trail rides as a Grate place to have fun and have a Good ride with Good Blokes ..
I think if you are a GOOD Rider and are in So much of a Hurry that you can Not Give a Bloke a little bit of Rider etiquette ..
Just give Him a Bit of Time or Room.. that all
Than you may not be a GOOD Rider at all ...
.
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And there I was thinking you stopped to help well there you have no etiquette!!!
I shall endeavour to improve myself ,
with some reading /study over the holidays , ;D :)
Regards ,
Steve
(http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt127/scm00/the_gentlemen_s_book_of_etiquette_11_zps152101c9.jpg)
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Theres a few on here that should read it
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Remember Steve:
(http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/tymess/10000231-00-00-00-00_lg.png)
Then some more homework during the holidays, you can watch:
(http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/tymess/612HMJ5Y02L.jpg)
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No thanks Tymes , I'm happy enough to just poke along on the trail & enjoy the ride 8)
Regards ,
Steve
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Rider etiquette; the slower riders respect the faster riders and the faster riders respect the slower riders, end of story.
Now lets talk about riding etiquette...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Beaufort2014397_zps71a3db34.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Beaufort2014397_zps71a3db34.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Tallarook2014087_zpsf0cb9723.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Tallarook2014087_zpsf0cb9723.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Rockley080_zps7bb8a98f.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Rockley080_zps7bb8a98f.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Beaufort2014251_zps73fa3a27.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Beaufort2014251_zps73fa3a27.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Harrow2013083_zpsbcd07f36.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Harrow2013083_zpsbcd07f36.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/MtEgerton2012021_zpsac385052.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/MtEgerton2012021_zpsac385052.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Beaufort2014242_zpsf9cc7d07.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Beaufort2014242_zpsf9cc7d07.jpg.html)
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(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Tallarook2014073_zpsbeaeb183.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Tallarook2014073_zpsbeaeb183.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Tallarook-2011070_zpsea8ef87a.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Tallarook-2011070_zpsea8ef87a.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Tallarook2014016_zps075f4409.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Tallarook2014016_zps075f4409.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Rockley046_zps64a44601.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Rockley046_zps64a44601.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Tallarook2014036_zps35b28cac.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Tallarook2014036_zps35b28cac.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/MtEgerton2012027_zps3b066a4f.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/MtEgerton2012027_zps3b066a4f.jpg.html)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Tallarook-2011132_zpsd0868b98.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Tallarook-2011132_zpsd0868b98.jpg.html)
The correct riding etiquette is so elegantly displayed by this prim and proper gentleman
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Etiquette/Harrow2013155_zpsc20bbf9d.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Etiquette/Harrow2013155_zpsc20bbf9d.jpg.html)
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Can am has just come straight from church that day
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That's more like it Geoff. I've exhibited some woeful form from time to time. So glad you haven't caught it on "film" (yet!) J
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Can am has just come straight from church that day
Prayers to the Gods of Dirtbike Reliability.
If you owned the bikes he does, you'd be a devout follower too.
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Well, thank you Geoffrey. Some less charitable persons have described my riding pace as glacial but I prefer the description of 'stately'. I ride by the credo of 'if you want to perform tricks such as aviating the front wheel, breaking traction with the back wheel and occasionally lifting feet from pegs, then you should join the circus'
Nathan, I will not dignify your comment with a reply...............well, apart from this one.
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You are already in the circus its called VERi see you next week Coco when we drop off the VERi jackets and pick up the SWM motor !!!
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That's more like it Geoff. I've exhibited some woeful form from time to time. So glad you haven't caught it on "film" (yet!) J
Didn't think you were game enough to actually get out on a bike...
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Tallarook%202014/Tallarook-2014-163_zps57490522.jpg) (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/gmcloa/media/Tallarook%202014/Tallarook-2014-163_zps57490522.jpg.html)
No wait, we did let you have a ride around once while being pushed ;D
(http://www.verivinduro.com.au/inc/slideshow/80f2d99b1cf05ee5896dd54ed8d10ea7-large.jpg)
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I will have you know Geoff that the mighty Bultaco will start any where any time. I choose to stuff around with the cold start thing just to get Drakie to push me so as to dissuade him from continuing this absurd practice. I will however concede that in your previous batch of photos my friend Andrew is bringing me a milk crate to stand on to help my arthritic hip gain a mechanical advantage over the ergonomicly (is that a word?) challenged Bultaco kickstart. J
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looks like great fun, just makes me want to be a gentleman on my ....hmm PE ...no.... yer the XR...no... the IT ;)
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Can am has just come straight from church that day
Yes, this one:
(http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/219/c/e/ce26d5794a325a5b3259784dd200904a-d45tcy3.jpg)
Tex
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one question? when is it appropriate when assisting punters stuck in a bog to leave and ride on.....as there is always another stuck punter! (lemming factor)
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If there's a stream of riders getting stuck, then the rider(s) you help then have to help the next person who gets stuck, allowing you to ride off. The basic rule is that you help as many riders who have helped you. But you can help more if you want.
Very occasionally you'll get someone who thinks that other riders are there to help them alone, but even then, most of the time they'll only need a gentle reminder ("once we get you out, you're going to help this bloke, OK?").
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one question? when is it appropriate when assisting punters stuck in a bog to leave and ride on.....as there is always another stuck punter
It is perfectly acceptable (indeed, encouraged) to leave riders on non Japanese bikes where they are, or use them as traction.
Tex
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Leave them there so we know where the soft spots are if it is tex stop in front of him and fill him in!!!
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...if it is tex stop in front of him and fill him in!!
We'll see about that! Check out my 2015 vinduro ride!
(http://sea-flavor.cocolog-nifty.com/photos/etc/dscf0457.JPG)
Tex
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one question? when is it appropriate when assisting punters stuck in a bog to leave and ride on.....as there is always another stuck punter
It is perfectly acceptable (indeed, encouraged) to leave riders on non Japanese bikes where they are, or use them as traction.
Tex
Unlikely you'll find a Euro stuck in a bog. Their forward motion may occassionally have been impeded by the piles of Oriental offal already wallowing (yes, I mean't that) in the mire, which I suppose may have led you to such a shallow situation assessment
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...if it is tex stop in front of him and fill him in!!
We'll see about that! Check out my 2015 vinduro ride!
(http://sea-flavor.cocolog-nifty.com/photos/etc/dscf0457.JPG)
Tex
I reckon you will have that stuck right to the top of its joy sticks!!
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I reckon you will have that stuck right to the top of its joy sticks!!
If anyone can, I can!
Tex
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Self propelled trench shovel! 8)
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is that linkage f/end :o, ::), :P
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Looks like its Automatic - and green - it must be a Husky Auto! But is it pre85? Its no Rokon as it doesn't look sturdy enough.