OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: 211 on August 30, 2014, 01:55:02 pm
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Thought I would give you a few of the oh my God your going to ride that? moments in scrutineering
From last weekend
Rear Shocks with 100% no dampening - sent away complaining loudly, retuned with shocks that worked.
Another guy missing 2 engine bolts, 3 remaining so she will be right!!!!
Broken front rim
at least 6 without plugged bars
at least 4 no countershaft cover
loose swing arm bolt - at least 3
Under size front axle - wheel really loose.
That's just off the top of my head that I saw let alone what the other guys pinged before it got to me.
Had a couple of rear suspension measures both local 125s both with at least 5.5"rear travel.
One from Toowoomba Post Classic - RM frame rusted out on the bottom frame rails; sent away, returned with satisfactory repair!
I could go on = it just puts the ice cream lid on the sprocket thing in a bit of perspective.
DT
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Ive seen flat tyres , leaking fuel tanks. Missing sprocket bolts.
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what about Big Thumpa turning up with a fire extinquisher tied to his handlebars, didn't want the same thing to happen to his metisse as it did to the CCM. Buggers wouldn't pass it, no sense of humour!!lol
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I saw a bike with a bottle finilec on the bars...burst during an endfor :oand covered the guy and bike in fungus...looked pretty funny ;D
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When I was doing it down here in Tassie I had a lot of the younger guys turning up on their moderns with swing arm bearings soo buggered I asked what the hell they had been doing , Freestyle was the answer . some had 10 to 15 mm play .
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No flywheel/stator cover :o
Like "derr"...
who in thier right mind would let that through???
Cracked/broken triple clamps!!!
SL100 tough sorta stuff...
who'd wanna be a scrutineer???
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A linkage bike converted to twin shock . It was a neat job, and yes he got to ride it in Evo class ;)
Hand grips that roll around on LHS
no kill switch
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Of course one of the worst things are dirty bike. Take note Steve
Bikes without the numbers on them. That is part of scrutineering.
Coins in grips instead of plugging handlebar ends.
and riders wearing thongs up to scrutineering.
Of course the other thing is scrutineers who don't know the rules.
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Of course the other thing is scrutineers who don't know the rules.
Yep. Took my modern to scrutiny at a grasstrack meeting with a sidestand on it, the scrutineer's reflex was to knock it back. I tried pointing out that the MoMS specifically allows stands (and wrap-around handguards) at grasstrack MXes, but he stood his ground because "we're running MX rules, not grasstrack rules"....
The required level of tact was out of my grasp that morning, so I removed the stand, but it grates knowing that the scrutineer still thinks that sidestands aren't acceptable for grasstrack MXs.
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No ball ends on levers. Loose spokes. Broken spokes. Brake cables flapping in the breeze. Fork seals blown so bad that oil leaks with the bike standing still. The list goes on and on but the biggie for me was a cracked helmet. No brains and happy without them ::)
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I find it strange that in the litigation state that oz is that you even have scrutineer . surly the scrutineer leaves himself open to litigation if he passes a bike to race and then it has a mechanical failure which injures the rider?
I would have thought that log books as a minimum would have been required.
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I think you're all Nazi's, if a guy wants to roll-up with an un-maintained bike that's his problem. Maybe in roadracing where he could take-out someone else, at high speed and on hard bitumen, is a different story.
The only things I care about when checking peoples bikes to race are front & rear brakes and self-closing throttle. Let em DNF, just moves me up a place ;-)
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I find it strange that in the litigation state that oz is that you even have scrutineer . surly the scrutineer leaves himself open to litigation if he passes a bike to race and then it has a mechanical failure which injures the rider?
I would have thought that log books as a minimum would have been required.
Exactly my point about the sprocket guard. They introduce these rules, don't enforce them and then sign off on them. Crazy if you ask me.
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Well, have any of you fellow every swallowed a handlebar going over a jump, well I have, the went though my mouth guard knocked out my front teeth and cut the roof of my mouth inside.
I have scrutineered bikes for any years, if a bike rolled up with bars unplugged, solid foot pegs, loose spokes, no ball ends on brake and clutch levers, (side stands removed), any nuts and bolts loose on the bike, headstem loose if they where not right, see you later mate, go away and fix them. plus Helmets where always checked, they must display the snell number. if not, was not to be used.
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Well, have any of you fellow every swallowed a handlebar going over a jump, well I have, the went though my mouth guard knocked out my front teeth and cut the roof of my mouth inside.
I have scrutineered bikes for any years, if a bike rolled up with bars unplugged, solid foot pegs, loose spokes, no ball ends on brake and clutch levers, (side stands removed), any nuts and bolts loose on the bike, headstem loose if they where not right, see you later mate, go away and fix them. plus Helmets where always checked, they must display the snell number. if not, was not to be used.
Thats all cool , but what if you missed something and it broke and he or someone else got hurt , would you not then be liable as YOU checked the bike and said it was OK.
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I find it strange that in the litigation state that oz is that you even have a scrutineer .
Well, reading the list of ailments Dave outlined earlier, it's lucky for other riders we do. Considering how each and every nats gets micro-examined on here, yet dickheads still roll up with an heap of crap and an attitude. One answer would be the same as my solution for eligibility : have your bike looked over by those racing against you.
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Having travelled many of thousands of kilometres on bikes with rooted swingarm bearings, I can say that it is a very minor concern WRT safety.
Ditto rims that are cracked across the join - even if it breaks all the way through during the race (which is highly unlikely), the biggest problem will be the broken edge of the rim puncturing the tube. The spokes and the bead of the tyre hold it in place.
A loose spoke is much the same story - its not ideal, but nor is it the catastrophe that most scrutineers seem to imagine...
I was a CAMS accredited scrutineer (and CAMS are even more paranoid than MA).
One of the things that was repeated many times when I did the course was "you job is NOT to knock back cars. Your job is to get as many safe and legal cars out there competing as you possibly can". This is a lesson that many scrutineers seem to forget.
I don't want to race with someone who has no brakes and a sticky throttle. But if they choose to ride with leaky forks, or walk around the pits in jandals, then it makes no difference to me.
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Well, have any of you fellow every swallowed a handlebar going over a jump, well I have, the went though my mouth guard knocked out my front teeth and cut the roof of my mouth inside.
I have scrutineered bikes for any years, if a bike rolled up with bars unplugged, solid foot pegs, loose spokes, no ball ends on brake and clutch levers, (side stands removed), any nuts and bolts loose on the bike, headstem loose if they where not right, see you later mate, go away and fix them. plus Helmets where always checked, they must display the snell number. if not, was not to be used.
Thats all cool , but what if you missed something and it broke and he or someone else got hurt , would you not then be liable as YOU checked the bike and said it was OK.
I would not miss anything, I was very thorough, nothing got passed me.
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I wouldn't be a scrutineer for quids, damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Most of these points are even less important on Dirttrack but I for one don't want to be hot up someone's clacka when there front wheel collapse going into a corner at the end of the main straight.
They have a job to do and a rule book to follow.
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I remember a fellow at a barrabool Australian vintage title, went over a jump on his Maico and when he come down the front wheel disintegrated, he ended up in a bad way. I don`t remember the scrutineers that weekend, but that maico was not checked properly. Another time I rode another fellows AJS 370 Stormer at Boagy race meeting at Leongatha, the whole time I was riding that bike it felt strange, there was a clunking sound, as if there wasn't any oil in the front forks, when the race had finished I told the owner, a week later he called me, and said David, that sound you heard, was the forks, the bolt that held the forks in place where gone, only the front brake cable was holding the forks together. Now that could have been trouble for me, if those forks had have pop out.
Now that comes back on the owner not doing his maintenance the week before, or the scrutineer over looked that, and did not test the forks on the day.
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Having travelled many of thousands of kilometres on bikes with rooted swingarm bearings, I can say that it is a very minor concern WRT safety.
Ditto rims that are cracked across the join - even if it breaks all the way through during the race (which is highly unlikely), the biggest problem will be the broken edge of the rim puncturing the tube. The spokes and the bead of the tyre hold it in place.
A loose spoke is much the same story - its not ideal, but nor is it the catastrophe that most scrutineers seem to imagine...
I was a CAMS accredited scrutineer (and CAMS are even more paranoid than MA).
One of the things that was repeated many times when I did the course was "you job is NOT to knock back cars. Your job is to get as many safe and legal cars out there competing as you possibly can". This is a lesson that many scrutineers seem to forget.
I don't want to race with someone who has no brakes and a sticky throttle. But if they choose to ride with leaky forks, or walk around the pits in jandals, then it makes no difference to me.
You've got to be kidding me Nathan. For such an otherwise sensible bloke you've seriously dropped the ball on this mate. Or have you had too many Karva's? Safety is paramount in what scrutiny is all about. It might have been different with your rally buddies, but I sure as hell wouldn't let some dodgy pile of crap onto any race track just to make up the numbers. If you want to ride by yourself with clapped out swing arm bearings that's fine....just don't do it beside me!
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D FFS I have been racing bikes for close to 40 yrs on both sides of the world . Reading this I must be the luckiest Bastard ever to line up on a start line as I have never seen a anyone seriously injured due to what a lot of you would consider life threatening issues with motorcycles .
I have also broken both legs , arms, collar bone , and a number of minor bones over the years . I have been knocked cold on several occasions , and yet I cannot attribute any of those injuries to mine or anyone elses bike .
We dropped scrutineering at motorcycle events here in NZ about 15 years ago ( for the reasons Asasin ) said earlier and yet as far as im aware we still have had no serious injuries or deaths as a result of this practice .
Road racing is a different animal all together, those guys are actually racing at speed on hard stuff called concrete or tarseal , and I agree that they need to be checked (by someone who A ACTUALY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING < and B SOMEONE WHO ACTUALY UNDERSTANDS AND CORRECTLY INTERPRETS THE RULES )
I had an encounter a few years back with one of your senior officials over a helmet , long story short the bloke didn't like me and did all he could to be a wanker . Fair enough a lot of people don't like me ( couldn't give a toss I am what I am ) but to take personal feelings into a professional role says more about him than me ::)
Take a step back for a minute and look at what we actually do ;) were a bunch of old wobblers , wobbling around a paddock at probably an average speed of 40 km hr ( and I run at the front of my classes )
Reading some of the latest posting on here from some makes me realise that they are obviously PAST IT ;) time to park it up and take up the pipe and slippers .
I don't condone dangerous or illegal eligibility practices , but I think GD66 summed it up with this .
One answer would be the same as my solution for eligibility : have your bike looked over by those racing against you.
And IMHO Nathans Rally scenario
One of the things that was repeated many times when I did the course was "you job is NOT to knock back cars. Your job is to get as many safe and legal cars out there competing as you possibly can". This is a lesson that many scrutineers seem to forget.
is spot on the money :)
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Jezbus
I thought Dave started this one for little light harted fun.
You remember fun guys ;)
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I would not miss anything, I was very thorough, nothing got passed me.
I am sure you are very thorough and love your position of authority but you cant crack test every item , hub, handlebar mount , suspension point , bolt and tube. so the instant you pass it and it breaks its your problem.
I am just making this point as this was taken to high court in NZ quite a few years ago after a crash at a local car club drags. Admittedly on a public closed road and private property got damaged . but the cops firstly pointed the finger at the person who last checked the car.the poor scrutineer who was just like you a volunteer..
I also believe they did the same with officials and scrutineer at a event where a spectator got badly injured .
Better to have the competitor sign his bike is safe then it is entirely his problem
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You've got to be kidding me Nathan. For such an otherwise sensible bloke you've seriously dropped the ball on this mate. Or have you had too many Karva's? Safety is paramount in what scrutiny is all about. It might have been different with your rally buddies, but I sure as hell wouldn't let some dodgy pile of crap onto any race track just to make up the numbers. If you want to ride by yourself with clapped out swing arm bearings that's fine....just don't do it beside me!
Not at all. All of the things that scrutineers typically make a big fuss over are really minor issues.
There's so many things that contribute to safety when you're racing a dirt bike - rider attitude is the biggest one by far. A swingarm with 5mm of side-to-side play is so far down the list that its amazing it even rates a mention.
An AT1 comes factory fitted with rubber swing arm bushes that allow the swing arm to move 5mm from side to side when the bushes are new.
Racing MX is a risky sport. Everyone who participates knows this.
MA needs to (be seen to) mitigate the risk to themselves - and that's all that scrutiny hopes to achieve.
But instead, we have some (I repeat some) scrutineers who think that their job is to send as many blokes home as they possibly can, and/or who just love making competitors jump through hoops for their amusement/ego trip.
To be honest, I've seen very little of it in VMX, but some of the comments in this thread show that the attitude is among us.
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Would this pass with flying colors at scrutineering, check ebay 151395280218 dt1mx mp3 speakers, just the ticket for when you're so far in front of the pack [or behind lol].
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i haven't read all the comments & a bit outa vmx touch here now but don't think we have scrutineering any more due to liability laws [or everyone being responsible for them selves--or liable for their own injury causing bikes] someone here [nz] will put me right.
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takes me back to 1967 when we were there & one of the kiwi's with a 250 cz had to [with help from a handy engineer over there] make up a front sprocket cover to get past the scrutineers. Was a wake up call for us guys who never worried about things like that [still don't lol].
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I think you're all Nazi's, if a guy wants to roll-up with an un-maintained bike that's his problem. Maybe in roadracing where he could take-out someone else, at high speed and on hard bitumen, is a different story.
The only things I care about when checking peoples bikes to race are front & rear brakes and self-closing throttle. Let em DNF, just moves me up a place ;-)
You have got to be kidding. Do you really think a motocross bike breaking something can't also affect another rider. Road Racing already has stricter rules, drain plugs wired, etc, etc, but to say you shouldn't check the obvious things on a MX or DT etc is BS.
However you aren't doing a service on the bike just checking simple things, that can be checked in a minutes.
In the following order.
Front brake, steering head bearings, front spokes & wheel bearings, handle bar plugs, throttle self returns, foot pegs return, rear spokes and wheel bearings, suspension/swingarm bearings, rear brake and correct readable numbers. If during this the scrutineer spots frame cracks etc take action. Also helmet and licence.
You could check riding gear etc but I usually check that on the start line/gates and check back numbers too.
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The first thing I inspect is the lever ends . wheel bearings . sprocket covers . Tank and Seat secure .
no fuel leaks. swing arm bushes. and that the engine is bolted in ..yep I have found a few loose in the
frame..
loose spokes just ask them to tighten them before they go out on the track
After all your not out to spoil there Day Just to point out what they have missed in prepping the Bike.
The Stig
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The first thing I inspect is the lever ends . wheel bearings . sprocket covers . Tank and Seat secure .
no fuel leaks. swing arm bushes. and that the engine is bolted in ..yep I have found a few loose in the
frame..
loose spokes just ask them to tighten them before they go out on the track
After all your not out to spoil there Day Just to point out what they have missed in prepping the Bike.
The Stig
That's it in a nutshell really. Scrutineering isn't about stopping anyone from riding but more pointing out any mechanical issue(s) that might have been overlooked. Fix it and come back for inspection to verify any serious issue has been fixed. Some people don't realise that broken levers and hollow bar ends aren't allowed on a race track because it is a real danger to not just them, but other riders as well. Nothing wrong with pointing it out so they do know. Again, fix it, come back for inspection and you're right to go.
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cant remember stopping someone having a ride on a mechanical matter - most can be sorted on the day. Cant say the same on Eligibility though - no, Im not even going to go there on a similar thread to this one; but it would be interesting........
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Well all I can add into this matter after reading all this is that NSW HEAVEN VMX club scrutineering is VERY sensible.
They do it properly - check for safety, without attitude or ego, and get the job done so we can all get on with what really matters.... fun racing on old bikes.
I have only experienced "attitude" from a scrutineer once that I can recall - and it wasn't a HEAVEN meeting. I was told my front wheel had a few loose spokes. When I asked which ones (as I was surprised) ... the response was 'there's a few mate - just fix them' ...
To no surprise I didnt find any.... :o
;D
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ha spokes!!,1st time out for my stilletto at nepean,going over pre race prep (nite b4 ::))broken spoke,no wukkers tighten the rest ,take it out,(leaving the nipple on rim),no biggie one missing spoke thinks i,scrutineer next day park it son you have a missing spoke :(??,(fugging 8 guage,built like a brick shizenhousen,really early ossa rear ),hmm i'll just ride the XL 8),scrutineering Coff's Classic,poxy TS/TM125, titearse me relaces wider/smaller alloys with the "ome" rustyish spokes ,scrutineerer runs the screwdriver over them,he's impressed,i come back with the XL later to overhear him telling a guy in the que (with dodgy loose spokes)his experience with my suzy,"yep rusty as all fugg,but correctly tensioned & laced ",win some ,lose some, :P
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Nathan when I mentioned the s\arm that I knocked back . there was at least 15mm play each way from ctr that's why I knocked it back . When I have scrutineered I have always got at least one spoke spanner with me , out of my own tool box I have loaned levers to other new riders . Im not out to knock back as many bikes as I can , In-fact one new rider's bike was soo bloody bad I loaned him one of mine for the day .Iain
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Nathan when I mentioned the s\arm that I knocked back . there was at least 15mm play each way from ctr that's why I knocked it back . When I have scrutineered I have always got at least one spoke spanner with me , out of my own tool box I have loaned levers to other new riders . Im not out to knock back as many bikes as I can , In-fact one new rider's bike was soo bloody bad I loaned him one of mine for the day .Iain
That's the spirit Iain. Not all scrutineers go out of their way to stop people riding. As a matter of fact, I haven't met a bad scrutineer yet.
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You need to get a rally car then.
A young bloke took his car to Adelaide for an Aussie championship round a month or so back. Got knocked back for a hastily fitted oil seal leaking badly (fair enough) at around 8pm. They allowed him to fix it and re-present the car the next morning ... at 7am, deliberatley leaving him with no chance of being able to get a new seal...
He and his crew busted their humps getting and fitting the new seal, and turned up to have the car re-inspected at 9:30am, only to be turned away because they were 2.5 hours late (even though the event hadn't started and the relevant officials were still there).
So his kissed goodbye about $4k and a week of his life - and then the head scrutineer threatened to take disciplinary action when he cracked the shits....
Anyway...
My KDX's stock standard swingarm was questioned this year, because "you've modified it"... I didn't mind it being questioned, but the ignorance of both mechanical principles and virtually every Japanese enduro bike of the era, didn't inspire confidence.
I've seen a scrutineer try to tell a mate (who runs a bike shop), that his spokes were tensioned wrongly.
I've seen a competitor be berated for having dead wheel bearings, when the axle clamp plate was loose...
Yes we're all human, yes we all make mistakes, yes they're volunteers. But those defences disappear when you're being a nazi, and aren't motivated by the desire to help people out.
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Scrutineers aren't safety inspectors, so why pretend you are. A scrutineers job is to check that the bike complies with the regs and that's it.
Sure point out a problem with the bike, but you can't knock a bike back for what you deem sloppy bearings or loose spokes.
Check the bike for items listed in the rule book and nothing more..
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My father was the machine examiner at both Short Circuit and Road Racing meetings here in Syd for many years in the 60-70's, well before age of bike racing came into being.
Safety was probably the most important reason the need for Scrutineering begun.
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Scrutineers aren't safety inspectors, so why pretend you are. A scrutineers job is to check that the bike complies with the regs and that's it.
Sure point out a problem with the bike, but you can't knock a bike back for what you deem sloppy bearings or loose spokes.
Check the bike for items listed in the rule book and nothing more..
Of course they are a form of safety inspectors. If a bike doesn't comply with the standards set out in the regs, then it is deemed unsafe for competition. No body knocks a bike back for loose spokes or sloppy wheel bearings. But they get pointed out to the rider/owner. However, if the wheel is totally flogged out with absolutely cactus bearings or numerous broken spokes, should it be allowed to compete when a failure could cause serious injury to other riders as well as the idiot behind the handle bars? I think not!
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I think Evo's point is that the defined role of "scrutineer" isn't what most people think it is, and that a lot of scrutineers operate outside of their job description.
Sounds a lot like poor risk management to me...
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Scrutineers aren't safety inspectors, so why pretend you are. A scrutineers job is to check that the bike complies with the regs and that's it.
Sure point out a problem with the bike, but you can't knock a bike back for what you deem sloppy bearings or loose spokes.
Check the bike for items listed in the rule book and nothing more..
Of course they are a form of safety inspectors. If a bike doesn't comply with the standards set out in the regs, then it is deemed unsafe for competition. No body knocks a bike back for loose spokes or sloppy wheel bearings. But they get pointed out to the rider/owner. However, if the wheel is totally flogged out with absolutely cactus bearings or numerous broken spokes, should it be allowed to compete when a failure could cause serious injury to other riders as well as the idiot behind the handle bars? I think not!
I agree wit TBM. The scrutineer is looking for obvious problems. If there is just a little bit of play you take note and let the rider know to fix it for next time and also keep an eye on the potential problem. The one thing a scrutineer should not do is ignore things. Also something you may let go at a MX you probably won't let go at a Supercross.
Nathan The example of the Rally Car doesn't work for me. If they were 30 mins late maybe, but 2.5 hours. If I was trying to get something finished and I knew I wasn't going to make the time, I would let the scrutineer or CofC know and ask if they would give some leeway. I wouldn't just turn up 2.5 hours late and then abuse the officials. I am yet to see one example of abusing officials that gets you any where other than in more trouble.
I will also try to help someone who treats me with respect.
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I think Evo's point is that the defined role of "scrutineer" isn't what most people think it is, and that a lot of scrutineers operate outside of their job description.
Sounds a lot like poor risk management to me...
Is it not a duty of care also to our fellow riders/members.
Ive not seen boot inspections at club or national level this year and believe its a hard depressing life on injuried feet.
Well we are on them more than 10 hrs a day :)
Cheers A
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I think Evo's point is that the defined role of "scrutineer" isn't what most people think it is, and that a lot of scrutineers operate outside of their job description.
Sounds a lot like poor risk management to me...
Poor risk management would be allowing a bike with an obviously clapped out (insert whatever you like) wheel onto the track.
I've yet to meet a scrutineer who goes out of their way to make life difficult for any rider. Most want to get the job over with so they can get on with enjoying the rest of their day.
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TBM, I'll stand corrected, but isn't there a widely misunderstood difference between "scrutineer" and "machine examiner"?
KTM47, he had asked for a later re-inspection time, but was denied because the scrutineer wanted to jerk him around. The 7:00am time was specifically chosen to ensure that the competitor would be unable to source the part and fit it without being late. That way the scrutineer can accurately say that he'd given the competitor an opportunity to re-present his vehicle, but was safe in the knowledge that he'd made it impossible for the competitor.
A lot of us are hopeful that it will be the end of this particular scrutineer's career, as it is simply the most blatant example of his behaviour/attitude.
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I wise man once told me, it's not too hard to figure out those who have responsible demanding jobs and those who take it up the arse during the week. It plays out on weekends or leisure activities with the latter types try and release their built up frustrations. I take comfort every time I've had some jerk try to make my life hard knowing he probably has problems sitting comfortably.
Years ago at nunawading a new member on a YZ250F, on his first ride, was not allowed to ride because he had an aftermarket muffler. I intervened and pointed out that other bikes on the track which were also modified and a few had not been submitted for scrutineering. Several of the offenders were family friends of the Scrutineer. With reluctance, he provide the new member with a concession. My brother and I left the club, which seemed to run by too many types who had funny walks.
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I wise man once told me, it's not too hard to figure out those who have responsible demanding jobs and those who take it up the arse during the week. It plays out on weekends or leisure activities with the latter types try and release their built up frustrations. I take comfort every time I've had some jerk try to make my life hard knowing he probably has problems sitting comfortably.
Years ago at nunawading a new member on a YZ250F, on his first ride, was not allowed to ride because he had an aftermarket muffler. I intervened and pointed out that other bikes on the track which were also modified and a few had not been submitted for scrutineering. Several of the offenders were family friends of the Scrutineer. With reluctance, he provide the new member with a concession. My brother and I left the club, which seemed to run by too many types who had funny walks.
Where's the like button for this post ;D
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I'll pay that, Tom.
I've often said is that you really want current, regular participants making the decisions, not career officials. The only thing worse than a career official is a career official that competes once every teo years and thinks that they are in touch...
I recall Super Hunky talking about a desert racing club where you had to race to be a member - sounded like a great idea to me.
Don't get me wrong - I don't know of a single club that could survive without the help of non-active participants, and non-active participants have a lot to offer. But nobody understands the implications of a decision the way participants do.
http://feralsportscarclub.net/CarClub.html (long but you'll only need to read the first few paragraphs).
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Ive not seen boot inspections at club or national level this year and believe its a hard depressing life on injuried feet.
Well we are on them more than 10 hrs a day :)
Cheers A
Toowoomba Post Classic Nats - they checked eligibility (frame numbers), bikes, helmets, boots and rider jerseys for numbers. A lot to get through and all done pretty efficiently in my humble opinion.
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I think Evo's point is that the defined role of "scrutineer" isn't what most people think it is, and that a lot of scrutineers operate outside of their job description.
Sounds a lot like poor risk management to me...
There is no difference The term machine examiner is in-correctly used. Scrutineering is more than just checking the bike. The only official licence terms are as follows:
Steward or (Referee for Speedway)
Clerk of Course
Race Secretary
Scrutineer
Marshal
Starter
Timekeeper
Judge
Measurer
All the above positions can have assistants
and Mechanic (again just for Speedway)
All other terms that are used are not official terms.
There are a lot of terms used in our sport that are used incorrectly.
Kevin
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How would we ever manage without you Kev?
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http://feralsportscarclub.net/CarClub.html (long but you'll only need to read the first few paragraphs).
Good read. Thanks. Wonder if any of ABs walk a bit odd ;)
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I bet you'd be lucky to find the word, Scrutineer in a program from around 40 years ago?
I just bet I get proved wrong.
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Maybe we could start a "stupid things scrutineers say" thread.*not VMX, modern*
1. friend gets knocked back and told he can't ride until it's removed.....a brake snake.
2. Standing in the queue about 2 weeks ago, two kxf 450 a few bikes ahead of me, first one gets knocked back, disc is cracked at each mount points where it attaches to the hub, poor bugger I thought, next one right behind him same scrutineer, bike has the same problem. The scrutineer then proceeds to advise his off sider to check all Kawasaki's as there must be a design fault with the disc, for about two minutes this guy was god(well he thought so) until some farmer at the back of the queue on a quad yells..."Their fcuking floating disc's you moron..."
Maybe I view things a little different, just because I only apply the rules is not because I'm anally retentive rule book reader, but because I only want to do what I have to and nothing more...why create more work for yourselves than you have to.
It also creates consistency for riders, why create situations for riders where they have no idea whats the go from week to week.
The duty of care is an interesting argument( the world, and some scrutineers, seem hell bent on saving us from ourselves)
By knocking bikes back for things that seem "unsafe", by default you are deeming all the bikes you let through "safe", heaven help you if one of those wheels collapse....Load of B.S.
All that shit is covered at riders briefing when you are told you may not get home alive this afternoon. "Duty of care" covered.
Scrutineering whether it's eligibility or machine examination is the biggest shit fight in this sport at the moment...hands down.
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I don't know what experiences you have had with over the top scrutineers Evo, but none of it sounds good. To say that scrutineering is the biggest shit fight in our sport at the moment is a big call. Maybe it's time for your club to get a new scrutineer?
I think the only job of a scrutineer is to point out any obvious mechanical fault with a machine so it can be addressed, not to try and exclude someone from entering.....but I guess it takes all types to make the world spin.
The times I have done the job and have had an issue with a bike, once all bikes have been checked I will seek out the bike with the problem and see if it's been fixed. I've even helped blokes fix the bike when time allows, even if it's only getting the tool for the job or borrowing parts, it all helps.....All I want to do is put the OK sticker on the bike and get on with the day.
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In my opinion if a (Chief Scrutineer) is doing the job correctly he or she is not scrutineering any bikes themselves, they are overseeing assistant scrutineers. So they should be able to stop any stupid things like the Kawasaki disc example. An experienced scrutineer is unlikely to make a mistake like that, however it can happen.
As for duty of care, even self scrutineering at the Australian SX and MX Championships requires the rider or entrant to sign a statement that machine is safe. There also should be a level four scrutineer present to do random checks. If something broke on the first lap of practice maybe the question should be asked how did it get through scrutineering. However as has been said previously a scrutineer can not be expected to see everything.
Back to the thread topic (Stuff you see at scrutineering). One problem that I came across once, was a rear brake that didn't appear to work. Pushed the pedal down no brake. I then realised the rider had changed the tyre and hadn't pumped the pads back up to he dics.
TBM has posted as I wrote this and I agree with what he has said.
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I had prepped my bike for the Wandering meet several months ago - knowing I would come back basically the day before the meet. Had a really good scrutineer who found a loose bolt on my brake torque arm I had missed - he passed the bike and said tighten it up - which I did whilst he was there - good attitude, no issues.
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I had prepped my bike for the Wandering meet several months ago - knowing I would come back basically the day before the meet. Had a really good scrutineer who found a loose bolt on my brake torque arm I had missed - he passed the bike and said tighten it up - which I did whilst he was there - good attitude, no issues.
A good example of what the majority of officials are like.
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I had prepped my bike for the Wandering meet several months ago - knowing I would come back basically the day before the meet. Had a really good scrutineer who found a loose bolt on my brake torque arm I had missed - he passed the bike and said tighten it up - which I did whilst he was there - good attitude, no issues.
A good example of what the majority of officials are like.
See, that just demonstrates what scrutineering is all about. We all miss something from time to time and luckily someone else checked the bike before it cost a failure.....and money.
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I bet you'd be lucky to find the word, Scrutineer in a program from around 40 years ago?
I just bet I get proved wrong.
True Slides, it used to be 'Machine examiner'.
After a fair few years doing RTA rego inspections, numerous times I have checked vehicles owned by mechanics and pointed out to them things such as very out of adjustment brakes, steering boxes etc. Obviously these things sneek up on one and unconsciously get compensated by the driver. This is why another pair of eyes is benificial. I do also see a case for riders signing off on safe condition and elegibility. pancho
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CAMS does "targeted scrutiny" for circuit races, and have done for a few years now.
Basically, cars are self-scrutineered for four out of every five events (I think they're the correct numbers), and can be checked at any time. At the 5th event, the car is checked more thoroughly than used to (because the scrutineers have 20% of the workload, that have a lot more time.
It's funny how many competitors got upset by it, but it's working fine. Despite the more thorough checks, apparently fewer defects are found because competitors are taking more responsibility for their machinery.