OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: pokey on July 22, 2014, 05:39:45 pm

Title: Claiming Rule
Post by: pokey on July 22, 2014, 05:39:45 pm
On a different place I just read about the AMA  Claiming rule where in the interest of an even playing fields a competitor could claim another riders bike  upon presenting a cheque for a set standard amount and the claim form.
Can you imagine picking up Marty Tripes RC250  for a song?

 Have we ever had that situation on Oz or even the rule?

 


you can read about it here

http://www.mxworksbike.com/index.php/history/mx-history/116-the-ama-claiming-rule-controversy
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: JohnnyO on July 22, 2014, 05:58:59 pm
No that was a US only rule for a couple of years.
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: tony27 on July 22, 2014, 06:24:32 pm
Which year did they bring in the production bike only rule in?
The rule seems to have some large loopholes with the top teams running factory forks that aren't available to anyone else
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: Iain Cameron on July 22, 2014, 06:52:43 pm
From my often shaky memory in 1976 Yamaha had a watercooled 125 OW27  that Hannah was riding there was a claim made but lost as Hannah made a counter claim and by luck only won  , Yamaha quickly got the bike out of the US and it was then raced in Europe for the rest of the season . Iain
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: Iain Cameron on July 22, 2014, 06:58:48 pm
From 84 Yamaha was running stock bikes in the US  supercross  .
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: Nathan S on July 22, 2014, 08:06:59 pm
AMA Production rule was 1986.
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: evo550 on July 22, 2014, 09:01:52 pm
Which year did they bring in the production bike only rule in?
The rule seems to have some large loopholes with the top teams running factory forks that aren't available to anyone else
The production rule only required use of production frame, swingarm and engine cases, IIRC.
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: JohnnyO on July 22, 2014, 09:02:24 pm
From my often shaky memory in 1976 Yamaha had a watercooled 125 OW27  that Hannah was riding there was a claim made but lost as Hannah made a counter claim and by luck only won  , Yamaha quickly got the bike out of the US and it was then raced in Europe for the rest of the season . Iain
You are thinking of Marty Smiths type2 Honda, after a claiming attempt it was parked and Marty rode a fmf  modified CR125.
Hannah rode the water cooled OW all year..
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: r4brightred on July 22, 2014, 09:22:36 pm
Hannah did not ride the water cooled bike all season. Yamaha got scared after the attempted claim on the YZ and switched to air cooled and then later switched back to water cooled again later in the season.
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: DJRacing on July 22, 2014, 09:31:26 pm
Yes, didnt the water cooled Hannah bike get ridden by Rond in Europe
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: JohnnyO on July 22, 2014, 09:53:03 pm
Hannah did not ride the water cooled bike all season. Yamaha got scared after the attempted claim on the YZ and switched to air cooled and then later switched back to water cooled again later in the season.
Really? I was unaware of that only remember Honda taking Smiths new bike from him..

Ok just read in Hannahs book that Mickey Boone tried to claim Bob's bike in 76 so they went to the old aircooled engine for a couple of rounds at the same time Smith rode a modified production CR125 and Suzuki put LaPorte back on a RM125 instead of his factory RA125..
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: KTM47 on July 22, 2014, 10:00:19 pm
I vaguely remember someone did manage to claim a bike under the rule.  He was given hell by everyone else and did get much help after it.  I think they changed to rule after that.  Also the AMA Superbikes had a claiming rule on the forks.  Someone claimed Mat Mladin's forks.  I don't think the forks were much use when handed over.
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: JohnnyO on July 22, 2014, 10:14:54 pm
I vaguely remember someone did manage to claim a bike under the rule.  He was given hell by everyone else and did get much help after it.  I think they changed to rule after that.  Also the AMA Superbikes had a claiming rule on the forks.  Someone claimed Mat Mladin's forks.  I don't think the forks were much use when handed over.
That was John Roeder who claimed Marty Tripes 79 RC250
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: g465b on July 22, 2014, 10:16:53 pm
an interesting story followed the claiming rule-(http://[URL=http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/gbankier/media/rc001_zpsde1d65c8.jpg.html][img width=582 height=800]http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a561/gbankier/rc001_zpsde1d65c8.jpg)[/URL](http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a561/gbankier/rc001_zpsde1d65c8.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/gbankier/media/rc001_zpsde1d65c8.jpg.html)(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a561/gbankier/rc002_zps71ff71ca.jpg)[URL=http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/gbankier/media/rc003_zps46465cb4.jpg.html](http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a561/gbankier/rc003_zps46465cb4.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/gbankier/media/rc002_zps71ff71ca.jpg.html)(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a561/gbankier/rc006_zps68fe4a84.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/gbankier/media/rc006_zps68fe4a84.jpg.html)(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a561/gbankier/rc004_zps908ada75.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/gbankier/media/rc004_zps908ada75.jpg.html)(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a561/gbankier/rc005_zps5c96d650.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/gbankier/media/rc005_zps5c96d650.jpg.html)(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a561/gbankier/rc007_zps67064959.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/gbankier/media/rc007_zps67064959.jpg.html)(http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a561/gbankier/rc008_zps2ab807d3.jpg) (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/gbankier/media/rc008_zps2ab807d3.jpg.html)[/URL]
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: Tahitian_Red on July 23, 2014, 01:09:02 am
Lots of interesting stories about the claiming rule era.  I read that all the Japanese factories got together and agreed that every time some Privateer put in a claim they would all put in a claim for that bike and then give it back to the Factory that owned it, so every "Claimer" only had a 1 in 5 chance of winning.  Looks like Roeder got lucky! (I believe he had lost the week before.)
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: KTM47 on July 23, 2014, 08:11:44 am
Apparently Roeder wasn't the first to try and claim a bike.  Mickey Boone tried before him, but lost the ballot.  The others teams also put claims in as soon as he did.

Anyway when Roeder did it he left it as late as he could and then put in two claims his and another rider's.  The teams were ready for it and also put in claims.  The claims apparently had to be from a rider so each team put in one on behalf of their riders. The odds were 14 to 2.  Roeder won, he then gave the bike to a magazine to do a test on it.  It probably made him some money, but I doubt he would have much of a MX/SX career after that.
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: tony27 on July 23, 2014, 08:44:08 am
I read the article including the points of views from the 3 main players, Marty Tripes as rider, John Roeder as the claimer & Gunnar Lindstrom as Honda team manager.
Very interesting read & you could understand just how much pressure the factory teams were able to apply to the AMA when the rule was suspended the next week & never reinstated, John Roeder's point of view was that the counter claim rules weren't stuck to as the factory teams didn't have the paperwork ready within the 30 minutes of race finish & were still allowed to lodge after the deadline
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: JohnnyO on July 23, 2014, 09:28:10 am
Interestingly Scott Steger from Vintage Factory tracked down Roeder a few years ago and he still had the bike lying in a shed where it had been for many years.
Scott purchased the bike, cleaned it up and later on sold it to Terry Good.
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: Tahitian_Red on July 23, 2014, 09:37:37 am
The bike was in a Sea Van about an hour and a half from my house.  I had the article on the tear down and never thought once to see how hard it would be to track Roeder down.
 :(
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: JohnnyO on July 23, 2014, 10:45:16 am
The bike was in a Sea Van about an hour and a half from my house.  I had the article on the tear down and never thought once to see how hard it would be to track Roeder down.
 :(
An opportunity missed! Would love to find something like that, with the Internet today I think pretty much all missing works bikes have been tracked down.
Title: Re: Claiming Rule
Post by: Lozza on July 23, 2014, 09:48:25 pm
First time the claiming rule was enforced was in Ontario where canny US racer claimed a works Rocket 3 Triumph of Sammy Miller's (if my memory doesn't fail me) the claimer did it to prove a point but wasn't going to give the trumpy back, he felt for the team manager who had to return to the Old Dart with no trophies or bike. That was early 70's. Here is a rough outline of the story
Quote
BSA Rocket 3 that John Cooper won with at Ontario 1971 that was claimed. The BSA/Triumph management persuaded Bob Bailey that it'd be too complex for him to run, and ended up giving him a Trident of lower spec instead. Still a good get by Bailey, the fee at that time was $2500 US.
  Also the AMA Superbikes had a claiming rule on the forks.  Someone claimed Mat Mladin's forks.  I don't think the forks were much use when handed over.

Reg O'Rourke completely forked them on puropse, the claimer fixed them up and put new internals. There was a pretty good article in AMCN covering all the claimed bikes/bits when MotoGP had the rule a few years back.