OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tony T on April 01, 2014, 09:10:34 pm
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I can't believe I'm even asking this, but can anyone tell me if Chinese bikes (specifically the Skyteam V Retro 250) are really as bad as I hear?
I'd prefer to only hear for those with first-hand experience and I'm keen to hear both good and bad experiences.
I really enjoy building and working on bikes, but I'd also like to have something that won't leave me stranded every second ride.
With serious time and preparation is it possible to make one reliable for a 3 or 4 day trip at a time?
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I'm saying this to be a smart arse, but my smart arse comment actually makes a lot of sense:
TTR is cheaper, faster, further away from a rebuild, is a known quantity and has a nationwide parts network.
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In my limited experience, a decent look over a Chinese bike will usually give you a big hint about how good or bad it is.
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Is a TTR really cheaper? If so you wouldn't look at a Skyream now would you? But I do like the sound of the Odes...
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I own a mower shop in se Qld and have recently broadened my product range to include some chinese product.
One range i am trying is the Odes (bikes and quads)
I havent retailed any of the Odes bikes as yet but i have a mcf250 in stock and have taken it for a play in the dirt and it wasnt a bad thing at all.
A lot of people have had really close look at it and the common concensus is that the build quality is really good and the 2 year warranty doesnt hurt either.
The price is right at $5000 for the 250 and $6300 for the 450.
At the end of the day if the punters dont take to this product its ok cause im happy to keep it as my modern.
Cheers
Roger
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I can't believe I'm even asking this, but can anyone tell me if Chinese bikes (specifically the Skyteam V Retro 250) are really as bad as I hear?
I'd prefer to only hear for those with first-hand experience and I'm keen to hear both good and bad experiences.
I really enjoy building and working on bikes, but I'd also like to have something that won't leave me stranded every second ride.
With serious time and preparation is it possible to make one reliable for a 3 or 4 day trip at a time?
DON'T DO IT
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If you're prepared to pretty much dis assemble the bike (engine aside) and put it back together with quality fittings and nylocks/loctite then it's possible to make the higher end of Chinese bikes satisfactory for long term use. The engines and gearboxes on these things seem to be the best part of Chinese bikes by far and I wouldn't imagine any major issues arising with a somewhat competent wrench man on board. One thing I'd be scared of though and I'm sure someone of you're touring experience would of considered is availability of tires in any remote areas, a problem at the best of times but given the specificity of the rubber this thing rolls on you risk being stranded even longer than normal if waiting on hoops to get you back on the road. Just my 2c
For anyone interested this is bike TT is referring to http://ikonikmoto.com.au/demo/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=85
Cheers, Brendan
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I don't know about that one [ skyteam ] but the cheaper dirt stuff is not so good.
One Example.
I've just rebuilt a front wheel using a 2nd hand Chinese ally rim .
It looks great from the outside except for the flat spot but inside the spokes have been chewing their way out and the nipple seats are a mess.
The ally must be softer than the correct grade because I've never seen this before.
cheers
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DON'T DO IT
Have you actually owned one? And if so, what specifically is you're issue with them?
So far, those with first-hand knowledge seem to have a positive attitude to them.
Here's the deal, I enjoy building bikes as much as riding these days, but I'm getting a little tired of the rust and dirt. ;)
So I was thinking that one of these Chinese things might be a fun and cheap to work with and try and turn into something decent. 8)
Good thought about tyres, Brendan. But I definitely would have no plans to take one anywhere remotely remote....... ;D
Just looking for some cheap time in the shed, something to strap to the back of the caravan and the occasional overnighter.
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As rookie said plenty of lock tight and nyelex nuts butn don't try and do them up
too tight.
We had this trouble with the first Japanese Bikes until they learnt to make better
Quality Steel/ Metal parts.
Some Brands of BMW . Harley Davison . Honda. Bikes are made in China.
And General Motors are currently building a plant to make Cars there as well .
I have had 3 mini bikes for my Grandsons they have flogged them to death over
5 years with no motor problems at all.
They will learn the same as the Japanese did..
The stig
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I know if you buy a modern japanese bike or ktm, you can ride it like you stole it and it will keep on keep on keeping on with a bit of maintenance. The china bikes can not do that, they break and wear in funny areas. You would be better of with a good TSER185 for instance.... or a WR200 etc.
I think in 5 yrs some china bikes will be good.....
Brett
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Have you actually owned one? And if so, what specifically is you're issue with them?
So far, those with first-hand knowledge seem to have a positive attitude to them.
No I haven't fallen into that trap but my mate did and it just fell apart .. well the bits that didn't bend and break that was ... you know .. little things bending like the front axle :o :o :o
I couldn't tell you the brand name but whatever it was it was just a complete pile of cheap, poor quality shit in my opinion
And yes Tony, I have heard stories of people claiming that they get good service from them .... and them even lasting a few years but that's not been my experience. Besides .... lasting a few years certainly isn't my idea of good quality or service life either .. in fact it's far from it. And by the time a few years has passed they are completely trashed.
In my humble opinion, good quality and good service life is being able to ride them for 10 years and not have them deteriorate a great deal and then rebuild them to get another 10 years out of them. Sorta like what we do with our VMX bikes ;)
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spare parts availability is sometimes an issue - as is longevity of access to those parts because they change design so quickly.
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the main issue is the quality of the bits that make it up... it looks like a bike, it goes like a bike but it doesn't have years of testing on the standards required to make the critical bits work aslong as they should. ie manufacturing quality control is crap.
No sooner do they get some one turning out part xyz for them when the foreman gets 3rd cousin chang to copy them and supply at a cheaper rate. 3rd cuz gets his steel from chr*st knows where and these issues result in a series of bikes that flog themselves out badly. yes, ridden quietly and on the roads, well graded dirt roads, you will get service but as soon as stresses increase beyond the capability of the weakest part it will let you down. Quite often they are like trying to fix a 30 year old bike with oval wear holes, bent bits that shouldn't be etc etc.
its a tool for a special application....choose wisely.
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Is a TTR really cheaper? If so you wouldn't look at a Skyream now would you? But I do like the sound of the Odes...
I was talking about a 2003 model TTR. A particular one. ;)
But even with 6,000km on it (and away from the sales-pitch :D), it seems like a better bet.
I always get a laugh walking among the shiny new CRFs & WRFs at the dealers, thinking that my 11 year old TTR is still much further away from its first rebuild than all of them.
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One thing to remember with chinka shit.....there is NO resale value.....NO one is going to buy it off you.....so lets say you pay 5K for a 250 or whatever, as long as you are prepared to rip up ALL of the money you paid for it then buy one, but if you change your mind in 6 months, don't expect to get any money for it, as Nathan say's, buy a TTR250 or XR250 for a couple of grand, spend a couple on it and you will have a good reliable bike that in 6 month's someone WILL buy off you.[ I'm saying this because we know you change bikes regulary]. Go and see the Whyalla lurker......he has a shed full of stuff to get rid of.....i'll pm his number if you want. One of the most fun bikes I have ever had was a WR200....went anywhere.
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JTR in Qld will buy all the used motors and suspension components from these bikes He claims they are far superior to what he can produce
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Are you sniffing your product again?.....that white powder is no good for you.
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JTR in Qld will buy all the used motors and suspension components from these bikes He claims they are far superior to what he can produce
I hear people that are doing up Postie bikes are using there china made 125 / 150 motors with good results fit strait in as well.
The stig
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You're right in everything you've said Tatey, but the whole reason I was considering one of these was mainly cos I thought it might be fun to work on and develop.
I don't get a lot of chances to ride, so working on bikes and turning them into something useful is what I'm enjoying most and I'm getting a little sick of dealing with rusted up parts.
I have found out that mostly those that have owned one seem to say they can be ok with work and those that never have, simply say they are junk. ???
Taking on board what everyone has said, I'm still most absolutely, positively undecided............ ;D
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Taking on board what everyone has said, I'm still most absolutely, positively undecided............ ;D
Lol ..mission accomplished then :)
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JTR in Qld will buy all the used motors and suspension components from these bikes He claims they are far superior to what he can produce
Ted, check your calendar mate...its April 2nd today ;D
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Here's the deal, I enjoy building bikes as much as riding these days, but I'm getting a little tired of the rust and dirt. ;)
So I was thinking that one of these Chinese things might be a fun and cheap to work with and try and turn into something decent. 8)
I had similar thoughts bouncing around inside my head many many years back, I knew the bikes weren't the best but with my skills and knowledge I thought maybe I could turn some into something remotely decent.
Then a mate brought around some 200cc full size bikes to have some bits modified and repaired and I came to realize that they were exceptionally woeful.
The finish on them was good and they looked the part but the materials they used on a lot of the parts (metal & plastic) were really substandard, the motor wasn't too bad as it was a copy of something but what they had designed themselves was rubbish.
The forks looked really good with their anodized parts but they had no dampening.
Front and rear discs looked good also but they stuffed up the ratios of the master & slave cylinders to the point that they had no decent leverage and the brakes were next to useless.
The more I looked at what needed sorting the more expensive the whole thing became and it became more obvious that it would be easier & cheaper to restore an XR200.
That was maybe 10 years or more back so maybe the model your looking at is sorted better but I doubt it.
It's often mentioned that the Japs weren't that good in their early years either but the Japs have a different culture, they wanted to build a better product and went to extremes to do so by buying in riders and copying existing models and then improving on them.
It's not that the Chinese can't build good stuff, but it seems that they can only do it when a Western company makes them build to a spec.
When left to their own devices they seem to take as many shortcuts as they can to optimize profits, mostly by using substandard steel etc.
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GMC, you are right but the Chinese are trying. Mate just over there for a year with team of 6 kiwi engineers building a motocross bike, chinese making an effort to make a bike half decent, bike was copy of Honda m/xer. How ever Kiwi's suggested brembo brakes ( better and parts could be bought any where in world) but no we will copy attitude was Chinese answer.
He now works at Silverstone making formula 1 parts.
All is not lost with the Chinese metisse still in production.....lol
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Many years ago I was asked to build up a bunch of Chinese bikes and to also assist with warranty repairs. After a month I bailed as there was no way I wanted to be associated with death traps. I also advised the importer to make sure he had massive liability insurance.
Saying that I recently had a good look at a couple bikes down the road from me and if I was looking for a cheap trail bike I would seriously consider one.
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.... team of kiwi engineers ....
This must be the first time that phrase has EVER been used!
Reckon that six of them being in China, would have left NZ with approximately none.
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i guess you've gotta decide if you want to flush up to 5K down the crapper..you may get a lot of satisfaction tooling around in the shed but when you're over it you may as well lean it against the shed wall..few if any will be interested in buying it..
i reckon grab something else with known issues and put the thought process towards that
tony
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Your wrong Nathan, TMBill [AKA William Doe] is still there [UnZud]......he's a fully qualified underwater flagpole painter [they have gone "green" with the paint and now use water based paints......they still can't get it to stick underwater? ???[
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Another good one are those pocket bike things.
The carb has no idle circuit and the motor has no reed valve.
So what you get at idle is a over fueling loop.
Running way to rich at idle so some fuel gets blown back into the pod filter some of which is added to the next cycle and so on until the engine stops.
I couldn't believe it when I found the problem , who makes a carb with no idle system. :o
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I had a meeting in our office today with a Chinese electronic controls bloke, on the way out he was fascinated about all my Bultaco's parked up on the mezz floor, asking questions etc, etc. I didn't have the heart to tell him!!
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he was fascinated about all my Bultaco's parked up on the mezz floor,
I think a photo might be in order here..... 8)
My lawyer's got a very complete Metralla, albeit a basket case. I've offered to help him get it together and I'll only charge what he would charge me for his 'skills'. ;D
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Do you know what the truly ironic thing about Chinese bikes is, they don’t have pages of fully sick LED light kits listed for them on Ebay the way RM’s and KX’s do???