OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: kdx Geoff on March 02, 2014, 12:12:02 pm
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Hi,
I've established that this bolt is stuck in the cases, l started trying to get CRC in there and I've hit the hollow bolt hard enough to mushroom the thread end. I've lent on the bolt head end but not used a significant lever in case l damage it or twist it off and make things worse.
There is very little space between the swingarm and the case (taken up by a seal) to try and cut the bolt but access is difficult anyway.
Idea's ?
Geoff
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Heat, bucket loads of CRC and a press. No amount of hitting it will loosen it. Strip it to a frame, engine and swing arm and find someone with press and you'll be good.
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Thanks,
I've stript down the frame and l can get an angle grinder in there to cut the bolt but I've always wanted to buy a small press ;D
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Buy a big press instead! ;D
cheers,
Michael
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coca cola sprayed on will work better than CRC if it's seized solid due to rust ;)
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if the bolt is hollow cut a thread inside and use slide hammer to pull the bolt out also you can set the frame and swing arm on a drill press and drill it out.
when you start bashing it with hammer the bolt will only get thicker and tighter in the hole.
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I've been able to get the bolt to turn enough to say its jammed in with corrosion and not fully seized any more.
if the bolt is hollow cut a thread inside and use slide hammer to pull the bolt out also you can set the frame and swing arm on a drill press and drill it out.
when you start bashing it with hammer the bolt will only get thicker and tighter in the hole.
l need to cut off about 5 mm of the expanded end of the bolt before l push it through with a press. Its not going to tap through with a hammer.
Thanks
Geoff
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Hey Geoff, OLD FART is right, coke does work and Subaru Upper engine cleaner works even better! I had a seized one, SOLID in the case, laid on its side and kept squirting upper engine cleaner for a week, in the end didn't even damage the shaft! Like yours I could get it to turn but no way could I move it towards OUT. Give it a go and soak, at very least will make pressing easier and less damage to the shaft...try and buy that! Upper engine clean is about $18 odd dollars a can, smells a bit like caustic but is not, even works great on seized nuts/bolts and is great for soaking and cleaning carbs, engine blocks, you name it.
Kt,
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i got a xt500 swinger bolt out by soaking it with wd40 for 2 months before I tried to get it out. when I did try I used a impact socket on the bottom supported by hardwood timber on concrete and a big stepped pice of shaft I had with a 7 pound hammer, one mighty hit and it started moving and when I got it out you could see how the wd40 had penetrated the rust. good luck with getting it out!
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Home made peno oil, 50:50 auto trans oil and acetone. If you decide to press it maybe use some timber blocks to reinforce the swing arm along with a mate to help.
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Guys when are you going to give up on your magic potions.
Use the product that makes life easy.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQraZhbGwHLQzDPIEu3rZ-K8c1c7WtlUCGhN9x4L6g8WG_93xyg)
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Geoff,I've got a press if you need one.
lewis
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Guys when are you going to give up on your magic potions.
Use the product that makes life easy.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQraZhbGwHLQzDPIEu3rZ-K8c1c7WtlUCGhN9x4L6g8WG_93xyg)
Slake well is right use Rost off first it just works
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if the bolt is hollow cut a thread inside and use slide hammer to pull the bolt out also you can set the frame and swing arm on a drill press and drill it out.
when you start bashing it with hammer the bolt will only get thicker and tighter in the hole.
Tomas is right
Mig a nut to the bolt and pull it out
Not push it through
Added benefit of the Mig is the heat helps crack the tension,
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coca cola sprayed on will work better than CRC if it's seized solid due to rust ;)
Hey Geoff, OLD FART is right, coke does work and Subaru Upper engine cleaner works even better! I had a seized one, SOLID in the case, laid on its side and kept squirting upper engine cleaner for a week, in the end didn't even damage the shaft! Like yours I could get it to turn but no way could I move it towards OUT. Give it a go and soak, at very least will make pressing easier and less damage to the shaft...try and buy that! Upper engine clean is about $18 odd dollars a can, smells a bit like caustic but is not, even works great on seized nuts/bolts and is great for soaking and cleaning carbs, engine blocks, you name it.
Kt,
Neither of those liquids sound fit for human consumption ;D
Guys when are you going to give up on your magic potions.
Use the product that makes life easy.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQraZhbGwHLQzDPIEu3rZ-K8c1c7WtlUCGhN9x4L6g8WG_93xyg)
Slake well is right use Rost off first it just works
Geoff,I've got a press if you need one.
lewis
Thanks Lewis, see you in a week :)
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easy to wail on the end of the bolt in the hope it will shift. lots of help here!!
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Theres even a better rost off called rost off ice comes out of the can at -40 degrees
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Theres even a better rost off called rost off ice comes out of the can at -40 degrees
As its a hollow bolt it might help at press time
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heat it up so the whole shebang expands a bit then pour cold water into the bolt hollow to retract it suddenly and break the corrosion seal!
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This is the blurb with Rost off ice.
High-grade rust loosener with cracking effect created by extreme cooling, and excellent creeping properties.
• Cracking effect.
The advantage for you:
• When the surface of the material, e.g. that of a threaded bolt, is cooled down to -40oC, microscopic cracks appear in the layer of corrosion of the joints, and these cracks break up the rust and therefore ensure better penetration by the active substance.
• Phenomenal capillary action.
The advantage for you:
• Superior creeping properties combined with the cracking effect ensure excellent penetration of rust.
• Ideal rust removing capability.
The advantages for you:
• Penetrates rapidly underneath rust and loosens bolts that have seized up.
• Badly rusted-up screw connections can be easily loosened without damaging the bolts.
• Corrosion protection additives.
The advantage for you:
• Long-term protection against subsequent corrosion.
• Free from resins and acids.
• Silicone-free.
• No damage to rubber and seals.
All in a can, sound like a easy way to do this if it works.
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If you have managed to get the bolt to turn a bit. Just keep spraying whatever you want to use into it and keep trying to get the bolt to turn more.
Drawing the bolt out (Slide Hammer) will be better than pressing or just bashing it.
You said it is stuck in the cases. Is there steel sleeves in the cases or just the alloy. Heating things may not work, because it will just expand the alloy and not the sleeves.
Either way patients will be the key to getting it out.
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Guys when are you going to give up on your magic potions.
Use the product that makes life easy.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQraZhbGwHLQzDPIEu3rZ-K8c1c7WtlUCGhN9x4L6g8WG_93xyg)
Get this, great stuff :D
Disassembling a wheel with rusty spokes & nipples and getting excellent results while the swingarm bolt soaks.
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Either way patients will be the key to getting it out.
:)
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If you have managed to get the bolt to turn a bit. Just keep spraying whatever you want to use into it and keep trying to get the bolt to turn more.
Drawing the bolt out (Slide Hammer) will be better than pressing or just bashing it.
You said it is stuck in the cases. Is there steel sleeves in the cases or just the alloy. Heating things may not work, because it will just expand the alloy and not the sleeves.
Either way patients will be the key to getting it out.
Hey Kev, Are you suggesting he takes the seized bolt down to the local hospital, ties it to a couple of top floor PATIENTS and chucks them out the window.
It's worth a try I suppose. ;D ;D ;D
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Just another point. You say the bolt is turning. Is it the bolt turning in the steel sleeves (assuming there are steel sleeves in the cases) or the sleeves turning in the cases. When you try it next see if the sleeves are turning.
I learnt a long time ago if things aren't coming easily, don't use extra force. Take your time. I've seen someone trying to split crank cases banging a screw driver between them. I quickly said STOP!!!!! there is something wrong. There were several screws not undone.
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You can also try your luck with 8lb sledge hammer ;)
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=776648
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ither way patients will be the key to getting it out.
:)
I always make it a habit to go quietly with a BIG STICK young Geoff.....go very gently with that press mate, can easily do some damage, its hard to "feel" when using something big on something small, SOAK IT FIRST and then go gently.
W.
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You can use a bearing puller as a portable press. See if you can get the puller attached around the swingarm pivot useing the frame. Then wined down the threaded part on the bolt and use it as a press. When the puller gets hard to turn try a swift sharp blow with a nornal hammer on the end.
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The stript down bike is sitting on its side with regular spraying of 'Rost off'. lm flipping it over every couple of days and getting a can of 'Rost off ice' to use on the hollow bolt.
l might go with this for a couple of weeks, l don't want to have to cut it out like this other bloke had to :o
You can also try your luck with 8lb sledge hammer ;)
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=776648
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There you go :)
l had a date with that bolt this morning and brought my angle grinder.
There was no way ever ever was that bolt going to come out in one peice. It was rusted to everything it touched, both the bearing sleeves and the spacer in the cases.
l had enough clearance between the swingarm and the spacer and only suffered some minor damage that should be pretty straight forward to repair. l have to cut off the bolt head to get that part of the bolt out and get the swingarm out of the frame.
(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag23/kdxGeoff/IMAG1442_zpsbba67fb1.jpg) (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/kdxGeoff/media/IMAG1442_zpsbba67fb1.jpg.html)
lm very glad l didn't put this lot in a press, it was never going to press out and l could have done significant damage.
Thanks for everyone's input :)
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MIG the biggest possible nut to the pivot bolt and slide hammer them out
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MIG the biggest possible nut to the pivot bolt and slide hammer them out
If you are after heat then forget the Mig .. use an Arc welder as they provide much more heat into the weld.
I've just read this entire thread as I found out I have to do exactly the same to my YZ125G ... bloody swing arm bolt turns but is seized in solid .... will get the rost off today and see how we go ::)
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Just helped a mate with an xr 100, axle seized in the centre tube.. managed to get it out enough to cut 2" of it then bashed it back and got the wheel out....
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Finally out ! Freakin bolt fought me every step of the way.
As the bolt was hollow it was straight forward drilling down the centre.
(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag23/kdxGeoff/IMAG1612_zps9150876e.jpg) (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/kdxGeoff/media/IMAG1612_zps9150876e.jpg.html)
l tried as l drilled to knock it out thinking with just a thin part of the bolt left it might come out. No
Once l drilled all the way through l used a ground down a hack saw blade to cut through the length of the bolt and free it up but even then it took a fair bit of effort and lube to get what was left out
(http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag23/kdxGeoff/IMAG1671_1_zps40dde23c.jpg) (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/kdxGeoff/media/IMAG1671_1_zps40dde23c.jpg.html)
Took weeks to get this out but other than some minor damage to the spacers from the angle grinder, we all came out of it unscathed, bolt excluded.
Cheers
Geoff
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great patience my man! next time buy bike in better knick! ;D :D
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Well done Geoff ;) as 80-85 husky said patience is the key some times you need to walk away and leave it for a while and go back for another go , instead of reaching for a bigger hammer :o
You have passed the patience class Geoff 8)
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Yeap patience is a virtue :) well done Geoff.
I bet you felt like clicking your heels and tap dancing when you realised the win ;D
Good stuff.
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Just been through the same thing with a mates XR400 it was laying around my shed for weeks , had to cut it out as well . Glad to see it leave the shed!!
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Taa Daa!!! battles won.!! Now some anti-seize on future re assemblies may just prove handy ;) Cheers