OzVMX Forum
Marketplace => eBay Finds => Topic started by: John Orchard on January 14, 2014, 09:47:17 pm
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Hmmmm, what to say?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/250CC-FOXICO-CYCLONE-DIRT-TRAIL-MOUNTAIN-QUAD-BIKE-GOKART-DIRTBIKE-ORANGE-/141164112795?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Ride_On_Toys&hash=item20de096b9b
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Ridiculous that such a blatant ripoff can be sold!!
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they'll be piled up at the tip with the other shite imports.
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Read the blurb with the add, play spot the spelling mistakes!!! and don't forget to tighten ya nuts and bolts.....
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They have no shame. Cheap though.
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Is this the Indian connection?
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Cheap rubbish , nothing more .
For somebody on a tight budget ( if they shop wisely) ,a good second hand (2str) Jap or Euro would be a far better option I reckon.
Or maybe TTR or XR 4str .
Regards ,
Steve
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I'm thinking about buying one just to satisfy my curiosity..... then sell it.
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I'm thinking about buying one just to satisfy my curiosity..... then sell it.
I reckon you would have trouble giving it away, let alone on- selling it.
One thing that bugs me is why don’t the motorcycle Mags test any of these cheap offerings and then tell it how it is?
In the 70’s and 80’s they would bag out any bike that didn’t perform properly or had massive failings (like the Cotton in the rubbish bin, which may or may not have been a bit excessive) but people became aware of what was crap.
Nowadays nothing is said so the naive keep buying shit and then filling up our rubbish tips.
Having said that, our Mags these days would probably be scared of losing an advertiser dollar and sell their soul instead
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Has anyone else noticed that its listed in the "toys/hobbies" category and in the sub category of "ride on toys".....seems even the seller can't take this b grade piece of shit seriously ;D ;D ;D
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Cheap rubbish , nothing more .
For somebody on a tight budget ( if they shop wisely) ,a good second hand (2str) Jap or Euro would be a far better option I reckon.
Or maybe TTR or XR 4str .
Regards ,
Steve
Exactly, I just bought a Gas Gas EC200 2005 model for $2000. Needed a new throttle cable, barkbusters and some jetting. I already love it. Best handling bike I've ridden. Why would you bother with this ebay thing?
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What all you clowns don't get is if nobody bought the shit [and it is shit], then they wouldn't make it.....why would you support that sort of rubbish?....all it does to our economy is fill up the landfill quicker....the guy's in the bikeshops I know will not trade or touch the crap.....much to the dickweads that own them displeasure.
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I'm thinking about buying one just to satisfy my curiosity..... then sell it.
I reckon you would have trouble giving it away, let alone on- selling it.
One thing that bugs me is why don’t the motorcycle Mags test any of these cheap offerings and then tell it how it is?
In the 70’s and 80’s they would bag out any bike that didn’t perform properly or had massive failings (like the Cotton in the rubbish bin, which may or may not have been a bit excessive) but people became aware of what was crap.
Nowadays nothing is said so the naive keep buying shit and then filling up our rubbish tips.
Having said that, our Mags these days would probably be scared of losing an advertiser dollar and sell their soul instead
IMO anything that's own ACP is not worth reading anymore. Yes most of the mags these days are just fluff and adds boring as bat shit.
I still love Super Hunky's quote that got him in the shit with Honda.
Honda dosent quote a power figure for the XL 125 which I think is just about right.
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Should be re-badged perhaps "POXYCO" or "TOXICO"
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One thing that bugs me is why don’t the motorcycle Mags test any of these cheap offerings and then tell it how it is?
IMO anything that's own ACP is not worth reading anymore. Yes most of the mags these days are just fluff and adds boring as bat shit.
The dirt bike magazine scene in Oz is largely driven by advertising revenue focused Hooray Harrys with little or no knowledge or appreciation of anything older than 5 years. A carburetted YZ450 is considered a primitive vintage bike to some of them. I've got a bit of experience dealing with these blokes and know well that there are some talented and dedicated exceptions but on the whole the magazines are driven by the advertisers so it's rare to find any hard criticism of bikes or products (oe events and personalities). They're all so slick and formulated, I just don't read them any more and I'm sure Geoff Eldridge would be turning in his grave if he could see what his beloved ADB has become. I'm in regular contact with many of the old school moto journos from not so long ago and to a man we're all a bit disappointed in what Gen X has done with Moto Media. It could be so much better if they weren't such soft cocks, afraid to tell the truth. I'd love to write a no holds barred track test on bikes like the Foxico but it'll never happen because it doesn't tie in with their reader demographic..... ::)
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" because it doesn't tie in with their reader demographic...." I should not generalize but can that demographic even read or write ? Even their own tattoos? More than a few could not even read the photos......
Hey Motorcycle Dirt Bike magazine editors , you can print the truth, like...
Foxico Cyclone KTM ripoff , very cheap ,very very nasty , dangerous build quality issues, most evident if the crap actually starts and you get to attempt forward motion under it's soon to die own motive power. New comers to dirt bikes, waste your $2000 + freight and be put off for life.
Even the bogeyman ghosts of the Suzi TM400 Cyclone would be pissed off.
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I called the guy today, the following one is a 4 valve version, with alloy swingarm and KTM copy front & rear suspension, including internals. For $1000 more ($2990) the than the above 2 valve model.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/250CC-FOXICO-4V-STORM-DIRT-TRAIL-MOUNTAIN-QUAD-BIKE-GOKART-DIRTBIKE-ORANGE-/151211239068?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Ride_On_Toys&hash=item2334e4669c
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I like that the Chinese are getting into the market, sure you get what you pay for but they are slowly lifting their game. I bought a 250 Atomik (Chinese) for Jodie a couple of years ago, figured she would not ride it hard so it might be ok, after 3 rides it took a tooth off 1st gear, after fixing that it stripped the spline on the starter-motor shaft.
Even after all that I am still prepared to give the Chinese a go, hell no one had a nice word for the Japanese when they started making bikes but they got better. If the Atomik goes bang again I will slot the '76 TS185 engine in that I have here. The Atomik suspension actually has damping and the brakes are good.
Rather than rebuilding the Atomik engine I just bought a complete brand new engine for $300, I don't mind if that's the way the market is going, I really don't expect the old guys here, who live in the past, to agree.
When the pit-bike rage started 10 years ago, I was sent to China by one of the importers, to work with the Chinese on design & quality issues, they are trying to do the right thing, and not all the Chinese manufacturers are the same. Most are driven / guided by the various importers around the world.
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John I agree with your views.Even today I hear comments that jap bikes are still crap from folks that still won't own one.(real bikes need to be kick started and leak oil)Sometimes I question my own sensibilities why put up with BSA singles.They ARE shit compared to the precision and quality of a jap bike of the same era.I certainly think the chinese will make a huge impact on the bike scene before too long.India won't be far behind.I'm actually waiting for Mahindra to build bikes and I reckon they'll be good.
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i have a chinese quad that i use around the 5 acers its just goes when i want it to
wasent new when i bought it neices and nephews ride it around.evey one has fun on it and i use it to tow the small farm trailer around.
like anything dont thrash it and keep new oil in it adjust the valves clean air filter (sounds like a $7000 jap bike) it keeps on going
jim
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Lewis, Mahindra already make a range of motorcycles. ;)
www.mahindratwowheelers.com
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There you go Tim,I never knew they actually produced a bike.Only ever seen them while watching the Moto GP. Not that I'm going to rush out and buy one but are they available in Aus?
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Mahinda group or is it the TATA group are said to own the company the produces the Indian" Royal Enfield*" range of pluggers that are sold in Australia. So you could say they sell motorcycles in Australia already.
Yes they are now once again Royal Enfield not just Enfield. In India ya pay the right (dare I say it ) corrupt people and Bobs ya Auntie.....
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I like that the Chinese are getting into the market, sure you get what you pay for but they are slowly lifting their game. I bought a 250 Atomik (Chinese) for Jodie a couple of years ago, figured she would not ride it hard so it might be ok, after 3 rides it took a tooth off 1st gear, after fixing that it stripped the spline on the starter-motor shaft.
Even after all that I am still prepared to give the Chinese a go, hell no one had a nice word for the Japanese when they started making bikes but they got better. If the Atomik goes bang again I will slot the '76 TS185 engine in that I have here. The Atomik suspension actually has damping and the brakes are good.
Rather than rebuilding the Atomik engine I just bought a complete brand new engine for $300, I don't mind if that's the way the market is going, I really don't expect the old guys here, who live in the past, to agree.
When the pit-bike rage started 10 years ago, I was sent to China by one of the importers, to work with the Chinese on design & quality issues, they are trying to do the right thing, and not all the Chinese manufacturers are the same. Most are driven / guided by the various importers around the world.
I agree John , everyone rubbishes anything that doesn't come out of Japan or Europe . I partially agree that you get what you pay for but there's also horses for courses . Motorcycling in general is FUCT in my opinion and the blame lies partially at the door of the big manufacturers but mainly at the foot of every voter in the western world who let the PC mongrels get their filthy mits on manufacturing and every other walk of life.
As a result a new jap or Euro dirt bike cost at least 5 times what this thing does and parts are again about 5 times the price , this thing cost less than the depreciation on a main stream bike the minute you start it.
I cant see how the fork they justify the bullshit cost of new bikes and parts these days . Some clever Flucker will be along soon to put me straight that with inflation considered bikes are cheaper now than in the 70s , maybe but compared to the 70s fork all bikes are sold today, WHY ?????.
As for magazines today and the spineless Weasels that publish them, Firkos covered that one .
Tatey will get all high and mighty about the economy etc , and yes Joan in a perfect world everyone would be earning plenty and spending plenty. Mate that boat has sailed into the sea of bullshit PCness and micro management driving the cost of everyday items beyond the reach of the common man, leaving sweet FA for luxury's like motorbikes.
For what its worth I would love to live in those times again ( of course I wouldn't be communicating that fact instantly on here though ) but like it or not we aint going back, unless you can hitch a ride with Marty ,
Doc and that DeLorean ;D
Bikes like these give everyday people the opportunity to own a motorcycle ( I know they could buy a used mainstream bike for the same money ) but maybe just maybe they would like something NEW out of the box regardless of others opinions of it and it fills the needs of todays throw away mentality society.
Times are changing and nobody has put up a bigger fight than me to try to stop that . All that did was made me unhappy fighting a battle I will never win, If you don't like this stuff don't buy it ;) but like it or not there is a growing market for it and the quality improves with every shipment .
Sure the quality is still sub standard in some cases but in case you have been in a coma for the last 20yrs you must realise people don't care ;) we live in a disposable world . Remember when in most households the family car was your 2nd biggest asset after your house and a treasured possession ? no me neither , well just about :-\
I would rather see people out there enjoying motorcycling at their own level and budget than see them lost to mountain biking or something else .
The whole anti cheaper knock off mentality smacks of snobbery and something I gave away modern MX for VMX to get away from .
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TMBILL,you've got that covered spot on.As mentioned previously,I have BSA singles and the quality and workmanship IS questionable.The amount of money I've thrown at them in order to bring them up to a decent standard is ridiculous.(I'm not sure what or why it is though but when one gets fired up
the time and money spent doesn't matter anymore.)I don't like it but I accepted the fact that we do live in a throw away society.Went to Bunning before xmas to buy a new battery for my cordless drill-walked out with a brand new drill(XU-1),paid all of $20 dollars for it.When it shits itself I'll buy another--battery $49(throw away)=two drills.(throw away)
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The Chinease will build what westerners want , you want cheap youll get cheap , they dont care. , they will build better quality if you want it you just have to ask. i get electronic components from them and the same applies. they have crap LCD screens ( suits used car dealers) and they have quality ones for the people who care.
They will eventually build high quality bikes for a reasonable price. I had a early CMG mammoth for the kids ( pw knock off) and it never let me down. CMG was a quality builder at the time and it was 40% dearer than other chinease ones on the market.
You get what you pay for from China
And I agree with bill . A Suzuki car brand new is 17 K here and a GSX1000 is over 20 . Jap etc bikes are not in parity any more.
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So many these days think that because it is new it must be good but I see it all as a giant con, and yes the big names are conning us too with there over inflated prices
There’s a very thin line between “you get what you pay for” and “a fool and his money are soon parted”
The philosophy that a product is so cheap that I will buy it and if it shits itself I will just buy another is false economy.
These bikes may be a worthwhile Trail bike but from what I have seen so far of similar products I doubt it. The finish they apply to their products I find impressive but all too often they shortcut on the metallurgy hence the stories of gears etc. failing within a short time. Brittle plastics and wiring that can’t handle the amperage are also common ailments.
I have seen local kids that have these pit bike things that their parents have bought them because they were cheap but because the bikes brake down so much they become disillusioned and give up on bikes all together. The forks will have next to no internals and the bolts are made of a material one step up from Plasticine but the parents will quote the brand name of the bike as if it’s supposed to mean something to me because they have believed the sales pitch of the wheeler dealer that brought in the container load of them.
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John I agree with your views.Even today I hear comments that jap bikes are still crap from folks that still won't own one.(real bikes need to be kick started and leak oil)Sometimes I question my own sensibilities why put up with BSA singles.They ARE shit compared to the precision and quality of a Jap bike of the same era.I certainly think the chinese will make a huge impact on the bike scene before too long.India won't be far behind. I'm actually waiting for Mahindra to build bikes and I reckon they'll be good.
Right now the Chinese motorcycles are 200% better than they were just five years ago and are getting pretty close to an acceptable quality standard. Once they start producing original designs out of better materials rather than rip off 'replicas', the rest of the worlds motorcycles will be up against a solid opposition. The signs have been on the wall for 10 years now but the big manufacturers have largely ignored the threat to the point that it's almost echoing the contempt the British manufacturers showed towards the Japanese bike "threat" back in the late sixties. We still see over engineered, over priced products from Japan and Europe and where the Japs, Koreans and Indians will gain a foothold is in producing good, easy to maintain entry level bikes for entry level prices.....the modern DT1 or XL250. We can make all of the jokes and shitbox remarks we like but to dismiss them as shit and consider them as producing shit forever is a big mistake. A mate once showed me a compilation of letters to the editor regarding Japanese bikes from mid sixties British magazines and the comments are so much like the current criticisms of Chinese (and Indian) products it's almost like history repeating itself.
i have a chinese quad that i use around the 5 acers its just goes when i want it to
wasent new when i bought it neices and nephews ride it around.evey one has fun on it and i use it to tow the small farm trailer around.
like anything dont thrash it and keep new oil in it adjust the valves clean air filter (sounds like a $7000 jap bike) it keeps on going
jim
Like Jimmy, we have a 150cc quad on the farm which is now over 10 years old and is still going strong on its original untouched (Lifan) engine. The only thing we've changed is batteries and the original soft rims which bent like tinfoil. It's now a bit smokey but it still earns its keep with no problems.
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I hear you Geoff , and your point about getting disillusioned is a valid one .
The door has opened and there's no going back now , I believe that quality is improving overall . The fact that parts are on par price wise with the bikes means that at least they are cheap to fix ( and hopefully the replacement part is from the next shipment and better quality )
In an ideal world (Joans world) no sub standard stuff would be sold , but as I say that boat has long sailed .
I have had to do a complete 180 on this subject as it used to bug the shit out of me . The only person it was affecting was me , nothing is gonna change its the new world order . Poor ole Joans paddling against the current with a bent tea spoon .
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I like Firkos point about the Chinese stuff becoming mainstream completion to the established brands and to be honest it cant come quick enough IMHO .
As Firko said the British motorcycle industry (along with 90% of the rest of British industry) disappeared up its own arse thanks to its complacency and helped by a big dose of NIH syndrome and those bastions of the worlds lazy and useless pricks the unions >:(
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You guys have short memories [and some of you are just too young to know]....when the land of the rising son [Tojo...look it up young fellas] came along there philosophy was totally different to the chinese....they copied other peoples products [I'm just talking about motorcicles and cars here but the rest would be similar]...they bought the rights off other companies...ie...Austin...bla, bla, made there products under licience [the chinese don't do this....they just blatantly steal/copy]...always improved it [something else the chinkas don't do...in fact they lower the std] and put it out there for a reasonable price [the only thing the chinese do, abeit at the cost of using slave labor and not adhearing to any modern safety concerns....worker gets injured =through him in the bin and get another]. the Japs where very cumming knowing that if you get a good product out there for a reasonable price, pay the workers [and look after them] fairly so they want to work for Mr Yamaha and make his product the best [something the chinese have no intentions of doing], you will be on a winner. The japs got into motor racing [hired the best...DeCoster/Robert/Peterson/Hallman etc....the list goes on].....and you know what.....they won [tell me what race teams the chinkas are funding?].....they made money, shared it around [ie...Yamaha USA, Kawasaki USA....The chinkas only have dodgy little 1 container at a time fly by nighters selling there product with little or NO after sales service]...the japs have put a lot back into a lot of countries [the chinese theory is once it leaves our factory we don't want to know about it]. Do you honestly think the chinese are going to start building factories in countries around the world like the japs do?...I don't think so but I guess if I am proven wrong then TMBill and John Orchard will be working for them [at 20cents and hour, no holidays, sickpay, 100 hours a week]. The way I see it, the Japanese came and did there thing in an honourable way, the chinese on the other hand are doing it just for money and don't care who they burn on the way through....you guys have short memories.
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I agree there is a big difference between the Chinese and Japanese cultures, I do feel that the Japanese are much more honourable; or have to 'appear' to be, which I found when I use to work for Honda Japan. I find Taiwan somewhere in the middle.
I guess the size (population) of China & India finds workers that will work a day for a bowl of rice, can't change that. How many Japanese bikes are now being made in Taiwan, China and India, is that any better than you or I getting a bike made in China and importing it oursleves?
Times are changing, I guess life will be easier if we try and move with the times, sure the Chinese bikes are not quite up to the quality of the Japanese manufactured items, but for someone that can work on their own bike that's not such a worry. If a part breaks, so what it's cheap to by another part.
German motorcycle manufacturer Sachs gets there freaky little 110cc Madass bike made in China, they sent engineers from Germany to China (I also went there as I was the Service Manager for the Australian importers) to make sure that the design & quality was up to their standards.
My Taiwanese Kymco quad is great, it never lets me down, Kymco is now making most parts for the Japanese quads.
Japanese manufacturers will have to buckle and get all their bikes & cars made in China, I wonder how many parts on the Foxico actually come out of the same mould that KTM parts come out of? KTM would be getting components from China, hell the Italian company Benelli (which is now Chinese owned) gets many of its parts from China.
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Joan there's nothing wrong with my memory but I am a realist . If we want to get on our high horse about honourable ways of doing things then both the Japs and the Krauts should still be paying reparation to the allied nations ( in the case of the Japs the Chinese who they really abused ) and particularly to the widows and kids of all the poor souls who suffered and died at the hands of these people . You might have heard of a place called Nanking .
But do we expect it NO ::) WHY because as with knock off goods NOBODY CARES ::) Its not right but you are fighting a battle that you will never win . This and future generations are all about the NOW and what can I get for free. We were dyed in the wool motorcyclist the day we threw a leg over one until the day we tip over, for todays mob everything is a fad todays motorbikes tomorrow Hang gliding , Monday underwater Muff diving .
Joan they don't care where it comes from as long as its cheap enough to have fun and throw it away afterwards .
Short memory, I remember the late Enoch Powell's rivers of blood speech about immigration into the UK , the man was branded a racist and a lunatic , yet today the same generation of voters who at the time rubbished Powell are pensioners who are beside themselves trying to get by on shit pensions while immigrants are living it up .
I wont at this present time buy a Chinese motorcycle , but I wont say I wont ever buy one.
As for 20c an hour and 100 hr weeks where do I sign sounds better than the current situation ;)
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Another point is that since Chairman Mao and Socialism has taken a dive for commercialism/capitalism we've seen a plethora of Chinese students entering western universities, many for engineering degrees. At the moment we're seeing the products of Mao educated engineers who learned their craft under the communist attitude of limited encouragement for original thought. The new modern generation Chinese engineer with a Western perspective for original and progressive design would be coming into the system pretty soon, if not about now. Slowly over the next few years we'll see a vast improvement in Chinese product design, quality and originality as they come to grips with what western society expects of them.
John, I love you like a son but you're heads up your arse if you believe that the Japanese did the honourable thing when they entered the world market. They might not have been as blatant at it as the Chinese but they stole a lot of early design ranging from the first Yamaha being a metric BSA Bantam and so on up the line. To say outright that they were oh so honourable by purchasing all of those early patents shows a blinkered naivety. In reality the Japs were ruthless in their stolen copy cat engineering, the big difference from the Chinese being that they very quickly moved on and developed their own self engineered products. The Chinese, as I said earlier didn't quite understand western standards because they were shut off from the real world during the Mao era so are a bit slower to absorb western principles and marketing style. The Japs on the other hand were educated on free market trade from American and British post WW2 occupation setting up their industry and instant markets. They were capitalists from the git go, ready to take over the world with trade where bullets and bombs had failed a decade or so earlier. Your attitude mirrors almost to the wording much of the attitude towards Japanese products in the 60's. My dad refused to buy a Japanese car because he'd fought them at war only 20 years earlier and he and his generation wouldn't believe that the Japs would ever make a decent product. The same attitude exists with blokes like you who are stuck with the current aspect of "chinka shit" and not accepting or understanding that what we're seeing it the pointy end of the Chinese motorcycle and car wedge.....just as the Datsun 1200, Bellett and little Japanese 80cc commuter bikes were the thin edge of the Japanese wedge. I'm not all that pleased with the Chinese situation but I'm looking at it as a realist. It's happening whether we like it or not so the sooner we get used to it and modify our attitudes, the easier the transition will be.
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Quote from TMBill that sums it all up for me. Remember I facilitate (OK operate as there is no other employees..) a waste and recycle transfer station. Meaning I see and smell all the shit people don't want anymore.
"""""WHY because as with knock off goods NOBODY CARES """""
They only feel the price............
In an earlier thread I stated that the Chinese have vastly improved quality in the past five years, it will keep on improving at that fast rate too..... The computer you are using right now is primarily Chinese parts... regardless of where it was "assembled"
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Two posatives from the China industries are Prices will come down they have to.
The Chinese quailty will go up untill like the Japs it may even be better.
Bring it on I say.
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You guys give up easy.....your big picture and my big picture are 2 different things....if you love them that much, why don't you go and live there and see if you survive.....you are obviously brain washed into thinking what they are doing is OK.....you know the old saying...if you lie down with dogs you'll get fleas....you blokes have fleas but wont admit it....I think it's sad. :(
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They only feel the price............
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You guys give up easy.....your big picture and my big picture are 2 different things....if you love them that much, why don't you go and live there and see if you survive.....you are obviously brain washed into thinking what they are doing is OK.....you know the old saying...if you lie down with dogs you'll get fleas....you blokes have fleas but wont admit it....I think it's sad. :(
This is really upsetting you isn't it Joanie? You've really got a sniffle up your nose about those pesky Chinamen eh ::). God help them if they move in next door to you :o. None of that post has anything to do with what we're talking about. We westerners wouldn't survive too well in Japan either so leave that aspect out of it. If you emerged from the mist for a little while and re-read what we're saying you'd see that none of us are advocating their products or "loving" them, we're just being realists and accepting that the world is changing and that the Chinese products are here whether we like it or not. You sound like my Dad when my Uncle Roy bought his Bellett back in 1964. The old man was livid. I've just learned to accept the inevitable before you, that's all.
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I can't believe there's 3 pages on this.........
K
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Still I wont deny I do get personal entertainment from the Cheapies , The engines you see on the bench excluding the SL125 at rear is what I have recovered and made operate since Christmas.... When tired of them I have a 30 SQ metre scrap metal recycle skip at work. Cheers Tim754
(http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad360/tdee754/104_0334_zpscf3285c6.jpg) (http://s951.photobucket.com/user/tdee754/media/104_0334_zpscf3285c6.jpg.html)
Disclaimer Important to note/ My workplace contract prohibits me from personally selling or advertising for sale anything recovered from my workplace. Any items you may have obtained from me are from stock collected prior to or purchased post my current employment. OK Tim Derrick (Tim754)
BigK yep is a head scratcher. ::)
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How many of you chink lovers would stump up 600K and hand it to an entire Chinese crew to build a house for you? I'll guarantee not one of you would.
Quality is not a word they are accustomed to. They have no fuc...king idea and don't care.
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Argghhh, finally someone I can relate too.....don't worry Ted, Firko, TMBill and John Orchard will be racing chinkas soon......wont that be a hoot......Firko will be looking for "real" footpegs to put on his chinka when all his plasticine ones break off. 8)
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I am middle of the road - and suppose I will get "chopped" for that. We buy lots from China here in Laos - and both lots of you guys are correct. Some of the cars we see (BYD - Build Your Dream) - the Laos won't even touch but at the other end China makes some of the largest mills for ore processing in the world and well - we buy our mill balls from them and they are the BEST in the world by a long shot - but again - they had to be shown how to do it and that was reluctantly accepted.
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My footpegs come into this every time this come up ;D. If that's the standard of your argument let me suggest some online debate lessons my friend. For the record, I don't have them on any of my bikes. I just liked winding you up and it seems to have worked. However, I do get frustrated when the point that others and myself make is totally bypassed to make a racist point. I also get annoyed when all of the Chinese products are thrown into the same shitbin without any obvious research on said parts. Some of the stuff, especially the billet alloy throttles are of market leading quality. I'll repeat the point I'm trying to make for the fifth flucking time.....I AGREE, MUCH OF THE CHINESE STUFF IS ABSOLUTE SHIT and nobody has said otherwise. What I'm (and the others) are saying and the point you keep missing is that their products are getting better at a pretty rapid rate and to flat dismiss the Chinese as making shit forever is making the very same mistake the Poms made when the Japs hit the market. Once the Chinese start making decent bikes and cars (and they most certainly will, based on common sense business practice) the whole motorcycle and car market will change. Whether it's for the better or worse we're yet to know but the Chinese philosphical and attitudinal differences to us or the Japanese has sweet fluckall to do with it. As I've said before, we all dismissed Hyundai's as shit back in 1984 but look at them now. You need to sit down with Jonesy who regularly travels to China and generates millions of dollars worth of business with the Chinese and see what he reckons about where they're headed. If you're capable of listening and understanding what he'd tell you you'd be pretty impressed.....and a little scared. :-\
You really need to ease off on the pain killers and chill out a little Joan. You scare me when you're on this anti "chinka" purge. On the eve of my 64th birthday I'm too old to argue this stuff with equally stubborn opposition, Nathan taught me that. I'm off on an adventure to then Troy Bayliss Classic so fluck it all.
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So when is China going to offer Villopoto, Dungey and Reed a contract they cannot refuse to market their wares and gain R&D like the Japs did, ( even before they were marketing MX bikes.)
It won't happen. They are interested in only one thing. Finding work for 2 billion people.
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Hmmm... I think the subject of Chinese copies/marketing and their impact on motorcycling plus discussion about the quality/value for money is fine and relevant, but some of the racial stuff is sailing a bit close to the wind. let's ease back on that stuff and focus on the actual facts. First warning fellas.
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I remember saying the same thing about a Korean brand that I had to work with when they brought their new products to Alice Springs to test many years ago.
Time has proven me wrong about them and I honestly think that the Chinese product will continue to improve and become and real alternative.
Maybe us old farts will still chose to ignore them, (me included) but I think the younger generation will be more accepting than we are just as we were more accepting of the Japanese product than the 'old farts' in our day. ;D
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I think this dude somes it up well
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UQDs1q1Ri6k
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Foxico's are like fat chicks. Fun to ride until one of your friends catches you on them.
No thanks on buying a Chinese bike, they're crap.
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I can't believe there's 4 pages on this.........
K
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Maybe so, but you keep coming back ;)
As long as there is a market for their products they will continue to pump them out like it or not.
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Not real sure what it's a copy of..... sure it has ktm plastics and swingarm, everything else seems to be original stuff, I've never seen a motor or chassis like that before.
When ATK used Yamaha and KTM plastics where they labeled rip off's ?
When Maico used Suzuki plastics where they labeled rip off's ?