OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Digga on December 09, 2013, 05:11:42 pm
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For those who believe strongly in local Ozzie manufacturing & would like to contribute in some way to help keep it going here, then have a read of the letter below from the SA Premier & then log onto the website link at the bottom of the page to register in the petition
Dear More than Cars supporter
You may have seen media reports today suggesting that Holden has made a decision to close its Australian manufacturing operations.
I have been told these suggestions are untrue.
When the first media reports emerged last night I immediately contacted the Federal Government’s Industry Minister, Ian Macfarlane.
Mr Macfarlane told me that Holden has denied the media reports and that the Federal Government was still in discussion with Australian carmakers.
I have also spoken to Holden’s chief in Australia, Mike Devereux. He has confirmed the rumours in the media are untrue.
However, the ongoing speculation about the future of the car industry is damaging. It is creating huge anxiety for thousands of workers and their families at Holden, their suppliers and all the businesses that rely on the auto manufacturing industry.
It is an issue that must be addressed.
We need the Federal Government to commit to national investment in the industry urgently.
Next Friday, the Premier of Victoria and I will be raising this matter with the Prime Minister at the Council of Australian Governments (COAG) meeting in Canberra.
For us to make the case as strongly as we can, we need as much community support as we can get.
Forward this email to your family and friends, explaining why we need national investment in the auto industry and ask them to show their support by signing up at www.morethancars.com.au
Remember these facts:
up to 13,000 South Australians stand to lose their jobs if auto manufacturing closes
we would lose up to $1.2 billion from the SA economy
Australia invests just $US18 per person in the car industry, Germany invests $US90 and the United States invests $US265
Together we can make a difference to thousands of people’s lives.
Thanks for adding your energy and voice at this important moment.
Premier Jay Weatherill
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I gotta say this is becoming a curley one for me, as bail outs for Ford and Holden have been going on for a few years now, with no real changes to try and address why they can't keep their heads above water...
How many other smaller companies have gone to the wall with no government assistance at all ?
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Contrast the different perspectives. For Labor and their unions branches, Holden and Ford are political problems. For the Liberals, this is an economic problem. No matter how much I read, I cannot not figure out what the core problems are. Our partisian MSM offer little insight. As someone who has employed people, the biggest brake on progress in Australia , is the Industrial Relations systems. IR feeds the Labor party, and 10000s of lawyers and who knows what else. Just look at Fair Work.
Simply put, Australia is not a desirable place for doing business.
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I gotta say this is becoming a curley one for me, as bail outs for Ford and Holden have been going on for a few years now, with no real changes to try and address why they can't keep their heads above water...
How many other smaller companies have gone to the wall with no government assistance at all ?
I agree. I would of thought it would be far more important to assist our food growers than any car manufacturer. How many fruit growers have gone to the wall because of cheap foreign imports. Clothes manufacturers don't exist in Oz anymore. Canneries have wound up because of OS "investment". And now OS "investment" is doing the same to Holden....They already did it to Ford. Doesn't anyone find it more than just a coincidence that both our Aussie car makers are US owned and as soon as the industry began struggling in the US, Aussie subsidiary's are culled. No doubt so that the US fords and Chevs can be sold to unsuspecting Aussies......
All we do in this country is pull crap out of the ground to sell to someone else so we can buy back more crap! It pisses me orf no end.
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The federal Liberals are trying to force it to happen as early as possible before the SA state election next March.
They have been highly inconsistent in their demands from Holden, which is surely further harming the chances of the bigwigs in the USA agreeing to keep the place open.
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If we want manufacturing in this country to thrive, then we need to cut wages across the board (yes, including your's), and slash property prices (including your's).
Either way, we're screwed, really.
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Read a story about the Fiat factory in France [ if I recall properly].
Apparently there was 2 yes TWO humans working there.
Later I read a news story where one of them stepped over a yellow line and got welded to death.
Anyhow that's what Holden Australia has to compete with , two wages in the entire factory.
The writing has been on the wall for years this is not something new.
We've priced ourselves out of the market , end of story.
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I agree. I would of thought it would be far more important to assist our food growers than any car manufacturer. How many fruit growers have gone to the wall because of cheap foreign imports. Clothes manufacturers don't exist in Oz anymore. Canneries have wound up because of OS "investment". And now OS "investment" is doing the same to Holden....They already did it to Ford. Doesn't anyone find it more than just a coincidence that both our Aussie car makers are US owned and as soon as the industry began struggling in the US, Aussie subsidiary's are culled. No doubt so that the US fords and Chevs can be sold to unsuspecting Aussies......
All we do in this country is pull crap out of the ground to sell to someone else so we can buy back more crap! It pisses me orf no end.
Its not just the USA, if Holden joins Ford & leaves, then guarantee, the Toyota plant in Altona will close shortly thereafter further compounding the impact to industry & community.
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Every car manufacturer in the world is subsidised by the government in which country they manufacture in. If it was me, I would save our companies (wether they be Aussie or foreign owned), go back to an import tarrif on ALL imports (fark the other countries....lets put Australia first)....we will be farked up the arse big time if we loose all our manufacturing.....if Holden goes, Toyota will go....that would close so many feeder business that will never recover....hey, we have some very smart cookies here in this country and lead the world in all sorts of things. You have to weigh the cost up....close Holden and Toyota...maybe 100.000? jobs lost, how much is that on welfare payments? and how much is lost in TAX revenue (remember these people DONT have a job anymore to pay tax and probably wont get another), also, how much will it fark up the superannuation companies, how many houses will get repo'd, stuff up house values, stuff up the banks....South Australia would be broke.....it's a way bigger problem than most people think. Lets put Australia first and let other countries go broke.....then we will pick up the slack, we have been way to soft on the Asian countries as far as balance of trade goes, they don't give a shit about us. Survival of the smartest.
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While we lament the decline of Australian manufacturing, we just dodged a bullet by disposing of a Cabal of Crooks who saw themselves as part of a world government. The Don himself is now the "alternative prime minister". Cheap energy was one of the last advantages we had. So what did they do ! Talk to people in mining and they will tell you about the Indigenous issues which slow and stall progress which when said and done is just extortion . As long as people barrack for a political party and demand no representation the decline will not stop.
Personally I do not give a shit. I have watched the IT industry die over the last 15 years and nothing gets a run in the MSM. 100000s of jobs went. All the new NBN software work goes to India. Anyone complain about this ? We only hear about the automotive industry because it's one of the pillars of Labor's power base. Just look at Kim Carr. Yet we expand the crippling IR system by continually writing meal tickets for lawyers and expanding unions influence and we expect no consequences ! Notice the number of US law firms setting up in Australia ! Anyone here work in Industry and now find ladders are banned ? We are doomed. We just had 3 of 7 High court Judges state that injuries occurred while rooting when away on a work trip should be compensated. FFS !
The future is for those who can adapt the quickest.
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I was recently in China for two weeks,travelled extensively,Beijing,Shangai etc. I took particular notice of the cars, a Cadillac is also extremely similar to a Buick,which to my mind are both really Commodores. Saw three car carrying semi trailers one day travelling on an expressway, each one had 7 rows on the top deck x 2, therefore 14 cars and a further 8 cars below, a total of 22 cars per semi. By the way they were extra long and not B Doubles.There were 3 semis,66 cars, the size of say Hyundai I 30's.
We cannot compete,the workers are brought in from rural areas to do factory work for 6 months, live in company housing and go back home for a short stay.
STATISTICS.
The population is 1,400 million people, last year 7 million left university,which was 160,000 more than the previous year. The wage is approx $300-$400 per month for a lot of people.With that many people there has to be a cashed up middle class, they are unable to purchase more than a couple of home units therefore Australia for them is gold.
Saw a number of building sites of apartment towers, 40 storey and 24 towers being constructed at once,another site had 17 tower blocks.
BEIJING,22 million people, 6 million cars. How do you get mobile with a car.
1. Enter a lottery type deal, 2000 tickets are drawn every month, if your number comes up, a rego plate costs $10,000 Aust,you then can buy a car. But there is an odds and evens thing happening,you can only drive it every second day!!!.
SHANGAI. well there are , 32 million there and the rego plates are cheaper. How good is that.
WE CANNOT COMPETE, we are a country of 22 million, and I think there are 10 million tax payers among us and 12 million living of that tax take.
In closing an electric type VESPA scooter costs about $400 Aust and you can ride it 24 hours a day.
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The biggest pfoblem in Oz that I can see is compliance costs, toolbox meetings , excessive OHS bullshit that in the long run repeats itself over and over again.
How is anybody supposed to make a dollar when you have the whole workforce sitting on their asses listening to some uni grad telling them for an hour that if they dont wear goggles that they could get something in their eyes? :o
Having to fill out a report because you have scratched your arm and it is bleeding a little.
I cut my hand a while back and it required a couple of stitches, made the mistake of going to the ambulance station to get a bandage on it so I could pack up my tools and call into the local hospital or quacks for some stitches, out comes MR Rescue and shovels me into the ambo for a 12k ride $850!, sat in the JHH for 6 hrs.Cost unknown but at a guess they would have slugged workcover at least a 2K. Went to woirk the next day and got on with things, pulled the stitches out the next week I received a phone call 6 weeks later asking if I was ready to go back to work, when I told her I had been working she tells me that I can be fined and cannot work without a clearance - $150!
If I had been a wage earner it woud have cost the boss at least 2K plus increased premium next year.
So conservately 5k for a 2 inch cut, why would you not want to shut shop!
Try getting an 18 year old , first year apprentice to listen yo anything.
While it is important that you come home after work every day, things will always go wrong at some time or another and when it does fining the boss everything that he made for the last 2 years is not good business.
And don't get me started on licencing and insurances.
I am at a loss at what future generations are going to do for work.
No wonder everything is shutting down.
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Agree with all of the above,TBM our government along with NZ have the lease support for farmers.In some Europeon countries if your wanting to expand or start a farm there governments will support with all equipnment needed.
Though we do have some of the worlds best health system,centre link/dole and lifestyles.
Cheers
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Contrast the different perspectives. For Labor and their unions branches, Holden and Ford are political problems. For the Liberals, this is an economic problem. No matter how much I read, I cannot not figure out what the core problems are. Our partisian MSM offer little insight. As someone who has employed people, the biggest brake on progress in Australia , is the Industrial Relations systems. IR feeds the Labor party, and 10000s of lawyers and who knows what else. Just look at Fair Work.
Simply put, Australia is not a desirable place for doing business.
What a crock of shit. The biggest problem is managers giving themselves way to credit and a continual mentality that if something goes wrong it's all the workers fault, if something works it was all their brilliant management. the company I work for all the process/inititiaves/ management tools are templates bought from Bain and company in the USA. Not 1 original idea ever, why should a level 2 manager be paid $120k pa to read powerponit presentations?When you can see how the Thai set up is , its not a surprise . They rezoned the whole area as a Tax free zone that includes all suppliers . Enkei (wheels) NGK (electrics) NOK (rubber) and so on . Taxes will then only apply for the local market , Export is completely free of tax. To compete with that and cheap labor is very hard or nearly impossible . Protection barriers would only be a band-aid and with all the global treaties in place , perhaps even illegal now . Hello new world . Like Topary said , we have to adapt quick , if we havent already .
The whole reason the 'special zones' get set up is to benefit cronies of the Government that sets them up. eg as Gina Rhinehart wanted to do the same thing in the Pilbra to benefit herself
If the car industry in Australia goes under will be a sad day and the whole country will hurt. Instaed of finger pointing lets hear some solutions. First is buy an Australian car.
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First is buy an Australian car.
And Australian VMX bike parts :) :P
LIVE:No decision has been made from Holden.Sunrise 9am est
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Our current standard of living is the brief period of time where we effectively spend the capital earned, but before our poor international competitiveness catches up with us.
The only way from here is down, as the Americans have shown - the real issues are:
1. How soon we realise this, and stop carrying on like a bunch of spoiled brats (the "doing it tough" mantra is a clear example of this).
2. How gently we can manage the decline.
It is an inevitable outcome of globalisation that the overall standard of living across the world will average out... The average standard of living in India and China will rise, while the western world's standard will decline.
The most effective way for Australia and other developed countries to combat this is to minimise inequality within our population - ensure we have a workforce with a good standard of education, and who remain active in the domestic economy. Once we start discarding people as "unproductive", and effectively remove them from the economy/productive workforce, then we put ourselves at a huge disadvantage globally.
Basically, the American model is suicide for our country. We all need to get over this bleating "I pay too much tax" attitude - the reality is that we are a lightly taxed nation, and we all benefit when everyone pays more tax...
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At little reminder of just how our leaders use resources...
Childcare wage rise used to lift union numbers
THE allocation of Labor's $300 million fund for wage rises for childcare workers was deeply unfair and the sector's peak union used it to boost its membership, an independent report has found.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/childcare-wage-rise-used-to-lift-union-numbers/story-fn59noo3-1226779287791
Could have used this money to bail out ..... ?
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There's a no politics rule here, Tom.
While you're flouting it, I will point out that the "independent" report was specifically commissioned by the Abbott government, just like the "independent audit" they had on their policy costings before the 2010 election, which was later totally denounced and saw the "auditors" fined for professional misconduct.
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Seems to me the only thing extra taxes buy is better conditions for our so called leaders. Who else gets 15% pay increases each and every year? And that is guaranteed to index each and every year.
The only way to help manufacturing in this country is to put tariffs back on the agenda and start making other countries pay for the privilege of being able to sell their goods here. That way, local industries might be able to compete price wise. We have to pay to send our goods virtually anywhere. Our markets are dictated to by foreign countries. All in the name of "fair trade agreements"..... I ask, who is it fair for?
And being the multi-cultural society we are, there are no allegiances to buying Australian made. Mum and dad with 3 kids that are struggling to make ends meet don't give a toss where something comes from or how long it will last, as long as it's cheaper than the next item.
There was one person who wanted to put a stop to all this free trade rubbish. And SHE was ridiculed beyond being reasonable and eventually thrown in jail just for good measure.....
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Tarriffs are a great start, especially on the $2 dollar shop crap that everyone buys, uses once and turfs it.
Then we get slugged with an environmental tax, sorry levie to bury the stuff!
The throw away, don,t repair it mentality has got me f##ked ::)
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There was one person who wanted to put a stop to all this free trade rubbish. And SHE was ridiculed beyond being reasonable and eventually thrown in jail just for good measure.....
And I remember very well who did the damage using of all things a "slush fund".
Anyhow as Nathan reminder me... over and out.
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As a nation, we seen reluctant to protect our industries while other countries don't seem to have that issue.
The Button plan (for cars) was a positive step in its day towards a more efficient motor industry but the desire to have a 'level playing field' seems to be significantly ours alone and reducing tariffs on imports only make the imports more price competitive against local product. Hyundai started selling new 3 door excels for 13 grand in the 90's when Corolla, Laser and Pulsar were $20k. People also stopped buying used cars a couple of years old instead going to the cheaply made new cars and this too impacted local production
Once Ford decided to pull up stumps its not hard to see the conversation GMH would be well into and of course Toyota wont last as the only manufacturer here. These companies know what they're doing to maximise their profits and building cars in Oz is not the way to do that.
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A different KDX-owning Geoff wins Post of the Thread for this one.
The question I have, is: Will people be happy paying more for things if we reintroduce tariffs?
Politicians of all brands seem very reluctant to even start asking the questions...
It's one thing to say "bring back tariffs to protect Aussie jobs", but it is another to be happy to pay an extra $15k for a base spec Commodore.
My memory is hazy on the Button Plan, but I think that making Holden and Ford internationally competitive was intended to open up export markets for both. This has t happened to any useful extent.
Ford particularly, was denied this by the bosses at Ford in the USA who actively stymied Ford Australia's export aspirations.
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The 'World Car' concept. Too little, way too late I'm guessing.
http://www.holden.com.au/corporate/exports (http://www.holden.com.au/corporate/exports)
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/us-media-laud-exported-holden-commodore-20131209-2z1ae.html (http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/us-media-laud-exported-holden-commodore-20131209-2z1ae.html)
http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/holden-export-announcement-imminent-20120516-1ypyq.html (http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/holden-export-announcement-imminent-20120516-1ypyq.html)
BUTTON PLAN....courtesy of Wikipedia
The Button car plan, also known as the Button plan was the informal name given to the Motor Industry Development Plan. The plan was an Australian federal government initiative, intended to rationalise the Australian motor vehicle industry and transition it to lower levels of protection. Industry consultation had begun in mid 1983 with the scheme announced, after John Button visited Japan to inform the car companies there of the contents of the plan, in mid 1984 with a proposed start date of 1985. The plan took its name from Senator John Button, the federal Minister for Commerce, Trade and Industry.
At the time of its inception, Australia's motor industry was heavily protected by import tariffs, and quantitative restrictions on imports or quotas which protected the assembly of thirteen models by various manufacturers. The Button car plan aimed to reduce this number to six models, with the aim of forcing industry consolidation. The overarching aim of the scheme was to make the motor vehicle industry in Australia more efficient by consolidation of resources, allowing the import tariffs to be gradually reduced. This in turn would theoretically expose the local industry to increased competition from imported products, fostering improvement in local vehicles and creating the basis for a competitive export industry.
The most obvious effect of the plan for the Australian car buyer was the appearance of badge engineered vehicles, where the same basic vehicle was sold by several companies under different names. Other approaches included the Ford Courier and Mazda B-Series utilities utilising Mitsubishi's 2.6-litre Astron four-cylinder engine, and a proposal to replace Mitsubishi's locally built Colt with a rebadged Toyota Corolla. This proposal however, never eventuated.
Holden initially teamed up with Nissan in 1984, where the Nissan Pulsar was sold as the Holden Astra. Later Pulsar and Astra models in Australia used Holden-sourced powertrains. This arrangement dissolved in 1989, and General Motors–Holden's and Toyota formed United Australian Automobile Industries (UAAI). The vehicles produced as a result of this joint venture, the Holden Apollo (Toyota Camry), Holden Nova (Toyota Corolla) and Toyota Lexcen (Holden Commodore) lasted until 1996 for the Holden-badged derivatives models, and 1997 for Lexcen.[1]
This sharing of models proved unpopular with buyers, and original models outsold their badge engineered counterparts.[2] The last of such models, the Toyota Lexcen (Holden Commodore), was dropped in 1997. Rather than share locally assembled models with other manufacturers, Holden, Ford, and Toyota decided to import fully built-up models from subsidiaries elsewhere in the world, mainly Europe and Japan. Mitsubishi Motors did not share models with other manufacturers during the period of the plan and ended Australian manufacturing in 2008; Nissan ended car manufacturing in Australia completely in 1994.
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A different KDX-owning Geoff wins Post of the Thread for this one.
The question I have, is: Will people be happy paying more for things if we reintroduce tariffs?
Politicians of all brands seem very reluctant to even start asking the questions...
It's one thing to say "bring back tariffs to protect Aussie jobs", but it is another to be happy to pay an extra $15k for a base spec Commodore.
My memory is hazy on the Button Plan, but I think that making Holden and Ford internationally competitive was intended to open up export markets for both. This has t happened to any useful extent.
Ford particularly, was denied this by the bosses at Ford in the USA who actively stymied Ford Australia's export aspirations.
Bringing back tariffs on any imported product will give Australian farmers and Australian manufacturers (while we still have a few) a more level playing field. If overseas competitors of any given product are charged a tariff, as Australia is when we export, then the price of their goods will rise, making the OS goods nearer to prices of our local products. Then, even if Aussie made is just a tad more expensive (you pay for quality) than the imported goods, most died in the wool Aussies will pay that little bit more. I know I would. I do at the supermarket. And I will continue to do so while ever there is industry in Australia...... No more politics from me.
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I don't consider this to be a political issue - governments of both brands have failed us repeatedly on this...
I generally buy Australian when I can, particularly when it comes to groceries - It's amazing how difficult can be at times.
I am prepared to add a few dollars to my grocery bill every week, but that's different to facing the price of a new car going up by 20%... :-\
The hit to CPI and inflation would be political suicide, unless you had a politician with the balls the size of Keating's - and we haven't gone close to having one of them since Keating got the boot...
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We nearly had someone with Keatings kahoonas. Thing is, when SHE spoke her mind she was labelled a racist, a misguided moron, had no brains and was fiscally unaware. Then they threw her in the clink because of the R sole that was supposedly working with her. I lost faith in the political world from that moment on.
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We nearly had someone with Keatings kahoonas. Thing is, when SHE spoke her mind she was labelled a racist, a misguided moron, had no brains and was fiscally unaware. Then they threw her in the clink because of the R sole that was supposedly working with her. I lost faith in the political world from that moment on.
I think we will see the term HANSENISM written into our political history teaching books, she indeed was prepared to speak what others considered Not Politically Correct (NPC). She may have had a simplistic view of global trade and politics but she certainly attracted the attention of the every day Aussie voter with her views of what she thought was needed to "fix" the country. I do not agree with some of her speak but at least she had the balls to get up there and say her bit.
The current and ongoing "boatpeople" issue started with her, the massive voter following she gained by speaking out at turning the boats back frightened the crap out of the Libs and Labor to such a degree they took on a similar lean to try and get back the voters. It's developed to such a mess these days that both sides see "Votes in Boats" as something of a political Holy Grail and will fight to the death to get the upper hand.
The barrage of opposition to her views from her guttless political opponents preferring to seek any Aust Electrol Commission irregularities as a way of ejecting her from the political scene and having almost the entire national and international press against her meant she was doomed.
Perhaps Big Clive will resurect the political fight back into the average person in the street, at least he's prepared to take the fight to the highest level, and he has the financial backing to again get the others worried.
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Big Clive might just be the man for the job. Although if you listen to the "wireless", the journos are already trying to label him as a thug with his own interests at heart. If he was the owner of a fish and chip shop he'd be labelled a simpleton......What a load of rubbish. He is a self made man who has done a lot for the country already. I only hope the general population can see through the slander that gets put onto people like Clive. Long live Hansenism!
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Well too late now, its all over with GM just announcing its Holden depatrue from Oz by the end of 2017. Wait to hear the same rumblings coming from the Toyota camp, as there is no way they will be able to operate here without the supplier framekwork that will be decimated by the loss of Ford & Holden. Goodbye Oz cars & welcome the Korean, Indian & Chinese clap to flood in !!!
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Australia will end up like NZ ;D full of strange jap imported cars ??? they are cheap but :P
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Our Politicians should hang their heads in shame ! >:(
Not just this lot but generations of them that have let our manufacturing ability of cars diminish to unviability.
Holden's shut down reasons have been cited as the dollar, production costs and market size, all things controlled by the reserve bank, government costs/taxes and unions haven't always been helpful (while Rome burns http://www.caradvice.com.au/141246/toyota-australia-unions-locked-in-negotiations-to-resolve-pay-dispute/) and the government again.
'Automotive industry assistance is now modest and transparent. Let's be clear: every car-making nation supports its industry and at a far greater level than Australia. In the US it is $264 a person, in Germany $90 a person and in Australia just $18. Today, tariff protection is at 5 per cent, a fraction of what it was in the early 1980s. Because Australia has entered into free trade agreements with other car-making countries, this tariff does not even apply to many imported vehicles.' (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/fate-of-holden-up-to-abbott/story-e6frgd0x-1226780117064#)
I'm sure the tens of thousands of people and their families that have been retrenched because Mitsubishi, Ford, Holden and soon to be included Toyota have ceased to manufacture in Australia (and all the part/ component suppliers) are delighted that our Country is such a fair player on the world stage of automotive manufacture.
Protect and assist our local automotive industry ? l think its a bit late now :(
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Are we all gonna be driving CHOLDENS in a few years ;)
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My main concern for the future is the security of our country.
We don't make steel,ships,planes,cars,whitegoods or even push bikes anymore.
Without manufacturing we must import everything.If this happy world we live in ever has a major shift,we are sitting ducks.
Oh thats right we just ring America and were saved. :(
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I feel so sorry for the workers having to face the shock of no more work after 2017. No doubt many will be gone before then. What a great government we have. First thing the Prime Minister wants is BMW's for the pollies. BASTARD! Why don't they buy the cheap crappy asian cars that ruined our auto industry instead of buying lavish luxury cars that WE PAY FOR.
Qantus will be the next to go, along with Toyota. Paul Keating was right...we are doomed to become a banana republic. And to think Australia once had a reputation for making some of the best "stuff" in the world. Now all we make are big friggin holes in the ground and a deteriorating environment, with no benefit to Australians or Australia.
How the fluck are they going to pay for all the welfare that is about to happen?
And what happened to the futures fund that Peter Costello so conveniently invested where Aussies can't see it. And what the hell was it for.... Oh, that's right. To pay all the superannuation costs of retiring politicians. Shame Australian government, SHAME
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we have all been told that we will need to supply the world with food so there,s a good money making scheme but we are selling all the farms to the chinks (maybe they think there,s a dollor to be made there in the next few years)WAKE UP CANBERRA >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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we have all been told that we will need to supply the world with food so there,s a good money making scheme but we are selling all the farms to the chinks (maybe they think there,s a dollor to be made there in the next few years)WAKE UP CANBERRA >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
It'd be funny if it wasn't so true. The food bowl of the world my arse.... All the fruit growers in Shepparton and surrounds have gone to the wall and have ripped up all their hard work that has been in families for generations. The last of our canneries closed down thanks to a take over by US company CocaCola Amitil. OS "investors" send their own livestock back home and the money that goes with it. Our veggie farmers are pushed to breaking point by foreign owned companies pretending to be their best friend. Our natural gas is sold for the next 20 years to china for bugger all while our LPG just went up by 30%. It's my friggin gas in my friggin ground and I want it back seeing as we, the population of Australia, get nothing out of it. Our town doesn't even have gas connected even though a pipeline full of the stuff is less than 1 kilometer away from my house. We don't even have potable drinking water for fluck sake. Wouldn't providing these resources to our own country towns make sense and deliver jobs? Oh yeah, that will cost the government money so we can't do that. We need to show fiscal restraint while we send all our resources elsewhere so "they" can grow and prosper.
Where's the INVESTMENT in THIS country you greedy BASTARDS??????????????????????????????
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Pollies couldnt a rats about whats going on out in the boondocks! selling the farm off wouldnt effect their smug lives one iota - thei glass castles are forever payed for ::)
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Now let me get this straight,
we remove tariffs to make a free trade agreement with countries so that we can export cars to them…
… but we can’t compete with countries that have low wages so our car industry folds and we now have no cars to export.
There’s some forward planning for you!
Next we will put the tariffs back on making all new cars even more expensive but we won’t have any local cars because it’s too hard to ‘jump start’ the industry again!
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That's pretty much the sum of it Geoff...
I don't know if tariffs will ever be re-introduced but you can bet your balls that the price of these imported will go up now that they see a chink in the armour. Don't worry, you won't lose so you'll still have something to scratch in the morning.
I wonder what the bleeding hearts think of the illegal immigrants coming to our shores now. There's no jobs to be had for the population that is here already, let alone tens of thousands more every year. We can't even go fruit picking anymore because there is no fruit to pick.
And while ever our good friends in the "states" are printing money to keep their economy afloat and their dollar worthless, things aren't going to get any better. And to think Ms Hansen was ridiculed when she suggested we print more money to help with the woes the nation was in at the time......
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(and all the part/ component suppliers) That is the Huge one people.
Korean, Indian & Chinese crap, Yes crap Indian and Chinese but 98% of the Korean stuff sold now is not junk.
You got a tough Jappo 4X4 ute from Tioyota, Tiazda/Thord, Tissan, Tholden, TIzuzu, TiTubish...i ever heard of Thailand ;) .
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(and all the part/ component suppliers) That is the Huge one people.
Cleaners,canteen,freight and Australian Racing scene the flow on effect is massive :(
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Mad Pauline showed just how far out of touch her opinions were when she went to clink herself, her opinions on that did a complete 180 deg turn. She would have been fantastic if you liked 150% inflation and our major trading partners ceasing to do business with Australian companies. Clive Palmer is only in politics to get his own way and benefit himself, he is chock a block full of shit. He has yet to string a coherent sentence or answer together on even one of his policiies.
Don't worry about the 1000 asylum seekers as there is 20,000 or so legal migrations to Australia each year most of them from NZ and the UK ;)
The follow-on to the car industry failing will be massive , even down to a small company that it did a job at that made the testing machines for the steering column controls for Ford/Holden. The real crisis will be when the Chinese decide we need to pay 'market prices' for our underpants or whatever is at Bunnings
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If Abbot and his party let this happen, they will get there arses kicked at the next election....if they put a tariff back on every shitbox imported car that came into this country of say a $1000 and then used that to prop up the motor industry here it probably wouldn't cost them SFA. We sell a million new cars in Australia a year, about 800,000 are imports...times that by a $1000 and you have a nice little kitty to keep AUSTRALIAN'S employed....do we really need those shit boxes from China (full of asbestos....gee, that's a surprise), India and all those other "cheap" cars for sale in our country?...I don't think so....people fought two world wars to give us freedom and to make this a great country that it is and now through piss weak polititans they have given it all away. Look how farked Europe is.....we are going down the same path. Spain when it was a great nation and under the control of Franko had rules.....nearly everything in Spain was either made there or a very high percentage of the product being produced was.....everyone had a job and the country was wealthy....now look at it with this free trade bullshit. The Asians would have been popping champagne bottles last night....because they know our government has just screwed us over and they will benefit from it. What I don't get is a few short years ago Holden was the only part of the GM corporation that was viable and making a profit, they took all the top people from us to fix there other divisions and gave us a dickhead to fark the company and now there are shutting us down. Bring back Pauline. 50,000 plus on the dole is going to cost us tax payers a fortune, let alone what it will do to the economy. The silly thing is, Holden will loose even more market share now as people rebel against them closing down, it happened with Nissan and Mitsubishi when they did it.
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It's hard not to get emotional with the loss of Ford and now Holden but it was inevitable.
We will never be able to compete against the Asian countries in the mass production of anything, we should be moving in the direction of producing high quality after market spares and accesories.
Throwing good money after bad doesn't make sense to me, that money is desperately needed in other areas.
Agriculture resources is where our future lays.
None of the V8 engines used in the supercars are made in OZ anyway.
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Makes ya wonder doesn't it, seems the organizers of the "Australian" V8 super cars championship saw this happening a lot longer ago than everyone else and adjusted their series accordingly so as that it doesn't collapse along with the discounting of Australian built models. :-\
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I can't help but wonder if the TPP will make tariffs illegal...
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If you folks are a bit worried about the Oz economy and its ailing manufacturing sector wait till the buyers of our resources decide to look elsewhere(Russia).Oz is on a downward spiral and there is not one politician that will-can pull us out of the shit.I doubt if any of them actually give a damn as to what is happening,I'm of the opinion they're in it for themselves.Seriously, can someone name something that ANY political party has done in the last 10-15 years where you can look and say "yep that was a good call"and the country is actually benefiting from that decision they made today.I can't, I'm hoping there is a person out there that can enlighten me.We are still the best country to live in but for how much longer?Time to reopen our smelters-shipyards and heavy industries and begin to cut back on imports.Oz did it before and they can do it again(before it's to late)and global warming will continue even if our pollies continue to sit on their hands and sell the country a boat load at a time.
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The TPP will ultimately benefit the biggest player in the negociations,the US to the detriment of the other signatories.The domestic car market here is just too small and too overcrowded with models so only 1 in 8 cars sold here is made here.The only thing that could have saved GMH,Ford etc was if 1 in 2 cars sold were made here and i've no doubt the companies would still have had their hands out for a subsidy.BUT as someone said yesterday,lets have a bit of consistency why are we questioning subsidies to car makers when the private medical insurers get over 2.5 billion tax dollars a year,we still have a diesel subsidy,huge middle class welfare payouts.As someone said there are too few taxpayers in this country to sustain our living standards at the current rate.The only things keeping us "rich"are our artificially high property values,our minerals,and arable land all of which are slipping through our fingers to overseas interests.Is there an answer?Not while corporations are driven by profit alone and consumers shop on price alone.We need government,industry,academics,economists,unions working out some kind of coherent rather than ad hoc strategy to transition our country for the present and future maybe some kind of Accord like during the Hawke years.
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I'd like to see it happen Lewis but who would put up the cash to retool and re-equip these industries which have been dormant for years?Who would we sell to?In answer to your other question I think we benefitted from the gun buyback scheme(not sure of the year).
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Lost forever.
In the mid Eighteen hundreds my great great great Frank was interned in Henry Wray(Freemantle prison) after assisting its completion. I have shown my gratitude by owning rear wheel drive Holdens, Valiants and currently a Ford. In-consequential trivia.
My Grandfathers Cousin, Harry, imported the first Chrysler car to Australia. Harry used it to demonstrate and take orders for Six more. Harry established the first Australian Chrysler dealership. In-consequential trivia.
Of major consequence.
Our current government campaigned that it would create additional employment and national security by revitalizing the operating structure for our manufacturing sector. The fan out of employment and skills of our automotive industry is massive. So will be this Catastrophe. Our new treasure goats our largest manufacturing sector, by saying, leave then, go on, I dare you, I dare you, Leave.
Pic is link.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/8d816098-617a-11e3-80ec-77826eca86c_zpsde3d50e6.jpg~original) (http://www.afr.com/p/national/hockey_dares_gm_to_leave_URe2aMQqTVACqNcjO8voHL)
Retrain?? for what, basket weaving, unemployment counselor ::)
Next on the chopping block is ABC, obviously the usual, a half will be taken up by foreign investment.
Maybe the other half to someone with impeccable court room honesty and integrity, maybe some one indiscriminate, maybe some one trustworthy, Rupert Murdoch?
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/imagesqtbnANd9GcTRBm_hyxucLKIYZise6_zps69f3828d.jpg~original)
My main concern for the future is the security of our country.
We don't make steel,ships,planes,cars,whitegoods or even push bikes anymore.
Without manufacturing we must import everything.If this happy world we live in ever has a major shift,we are sitting ducks.
Oh thats right we just ring America and were saved. :(
DAM STRAIGHT!
Our refinery's to be dismantled for srcap(Kurnel). Its OK but, we are an isolated nation with enough storage for imported product of ten days.
How do you think WW3 will be played out in a world of want, need and greed? A; It already is, and the global foundations of stupidity continue to be layed.
Security, the rest of the world strategists are now laughing at the nation of prostrated Fools.
We are
Screwed :-[
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Screwed by our own submission. Maybe a failing super-power will put our security above theirs?
Or maybe we could prostate our self's to the new one, oh that's right, we are.
And I loath pessimism,,,,,, nearly more than I do stupidity.
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It took me a long time to relalise that although not a game, life is indeed played out like a game, a game of Chess.
So are wars and the changing sovereignty and security of nations. look no further than any history, Chess.
The looming last move will always be Checkmate. Sorry my grandchildren.
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I have no faith in the free marketeers trade opinion that economies will always adjust, yes they will, but to what?
What is in the best security interest of a very wealth laden, very isolated nation? ten days of fuel?
I will only take solace in the form of facts and a solid defence, not hollow human guarantees.
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OMG :o,definately off the piss, :D, :P
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OMG :o,definately off the piss, :D, :P
Yes I am off it Mick. Been Training. Bought new bike ridding Armour. I will be down to pick up my XR500 tomorrow, thanks for helping out and storing it for me.
Apologies, if my views and opinions offend. I just believe it is a massive moment in Australia's history and structure. I am sad about Australia loosing our Automotive industry. I don't choose to be complacent about it. I believe the ramifications will be far greater than most perceive. I believe even more jobs will go offshore when the ABC deal is done and its identity lost.
Do you think there is a positive side to these events Mick? Pray tell please, I cannot see any.
I am of the belief that our Auto manufacturing industry and ABC deserve greater consideration. Those considerations that would argue along the lines of critical infrastructure just as I believe the same consideration should extend to that of oil and fuel supply. In times of conflict, assurances of supply are of no more value than that of an empty fuel tank or hollow promise.
If this government presides over such loss? I for one, will never vote for them again.
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Most other countries regard such things as assets for security reasons along the lines of critical infrastructure.
And those that don't have it, or are developing, envy it and aspire to it.
Look at a small country like Sweden as a model. They too have a shoreline and beautiful babes. But they manufacturer their own military defense. Jet fighters, armored tanks, munitions etc, etc, etc. They have built their defense assets on the principles of shared technologies and resources within their own home grown manufacturing sector.
A different point of view or terminology of what constitutes security common sense.
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35 years ago when I left school anyone who wanted an apprenticeship could get one. Now they are few and far between. Manufacturing is on its arse in this country and will only get progressively worse.
The majority of people seem to think that only a minority of people are benefiting from the mining boom, which has been with us now for the past 10 years and of which I have been and still am a part of.
But just wait and see what happens when the Mining boom finally comes to a grinding halt , and only then will we fully comprehend just how much the economy has been supported, carried, existing on, whatever you want to call it, by the Mining Boom.
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lyle2212---absolutely spot on.If I'm not mistaken the mining sector is already slowing down.People often don't realise how many small players the larger industries support.What happens when the big industries buckle? I once thought I wouldn't be alive to see this great country on its knees but now I think I'll be around to see it.I'm stocking up on projects just in case I can't afford them in the future.
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I am a slow learner honestly I ,ve done a lot of shit jobs in my time to feed my family. So Im already at the bottom in this situation. I feel that Australia has its head up its own ass. If ford and Holden piss off. Then the government can stop them from selling in this country. Then we have a load of skilled workers that need work the government builds a car plant plenty off work and why there at it band any new American fast food shops keep the old ones just to be fair. Eventually some Australian will build a fast food place and in 30 years time we might get some Australian feel back in the place. While I,m at it limit the amount of American tv aswell. We should be ashamed of our selves for letting this happen to our great land. Jimson
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I am a slow learner honestly I ,ve done a lot of shit jobs in my time to feed my family. So Im already at the bottom in this situation. I feel that Australia has its head up its own ass. If ford and Holden piss off. Then the government can stop them from selling in this country. Then we have a load of skilled workers that need work the government builds a car plant plenty off work and why there at it band any new American fast food shops keep the old ones just to be fair. Eventually some Australian will build a fast food place and in 30 years time we might get some Australian feel back in the place. While I,m at it limit the amount of American tv aswell. We should be ashamed of our selves for letting this happen to our great land. Jimson
So true.
I am also sick of paying for cars that I cannot afford to buy and won't be able to afford for another 15years.
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We need a propper business plan for the entire nation's future.
We lurch from one inept gov't to the next, Lib's cut spending to ballance the books without any thought to the future and then Labor come in and spend it like drunken sailors again without any thought of our future.
The rest of the world don't need or want our cars, simple.
The rest of the world will always need and always want our resources inc our potential for food production, stop selling off our land to our competitors.
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The rest of the world don't need or want our cars, simple.
Not really true. Australia makes the best RWD mainstream production cars in the world - the Ford Taurus (remember them?) was the biggest selling car in the USA for years - but it tanked here because the Falcon was simply better (and even the AU was less ugly).
The big problem - and this was particularly true for Ford - that the American powers-that-be were looking after their countrymen, rather than promoting the best product they had at their disposal. Dearborn blocked Ford Australia from exporting the Falcon.
Have a look for international reviews of any Falcadore in the last decade - they rave about them, even the fairly ordinary offerings like the VX Commodores.
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The Documentary "The Take" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Take_%282004_film%29) is highly recommended viewing for anyone who has an interest in such things.
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The good ol USA....land of the free, land of the brave. As long as your not Hispanic, Mexican, African American or Native Indian. The jews don't like those people. Oh, and you will work for $3.50 an hour and live in a box so the nation can prosper. Economic powerhouse of the world....that just keeps on printing money to stifle the ability of competing nations to export their goods because of an over inflated dollar. And while we're at it, we'll let all our economic forecasters speculate on anything that moves. It doesn't matter if it causes the world economies to destruct, we've got your back. "Tell ya what, if you tell the American people it was YOU who caused millions of Americans to lose their jobs and homes by funding bogus debt, we'll only fine you 50 million bucks....we know your only worth a couple hundred billion dollars"......
Can we trust American owned companies to buy up Aussie ASSETS? You bet we can. Afterall, the yanks have always loved us Aussies. Our accents are so cute and we ride kangaroos to school. They just make a few errors in judgement every now and then and SCREW perfectly well functioning business's by propping up their American subsidiaries.
It's just like WW2. While our young men, fathers and grandfathers were fighting a war on foreign soils, mostly to defend other nations, the yanks come here and have a splendid time SCREWING our women and then flucking off..
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I'm really enjoying this banter.WE didn't let this happen, the government did. This is democracy at work,there are some countries where we wouldn't dare slag off at the ruling govt party.I've also done some really crap jobs to make ends meet.I'm glad to be on a pension now,at least I don't need to worry about losing my job, however I often think of what the future holds for our great country.Is there a solution?
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And then there are the Asians. Well,contrary to popular opinion, at least the majority want to be successful at whatever they do. Failure is not a word familiar to most Asians. And they work very hard for failure not to happen. Sure, they took a lot of what used to be manufactured here and made it cheaper, but whose fault is that? I'd suggest that all is fair when the door is left unlocked to move on in. Not only was the door left unlocked, but our screwed in the head politicians held the door open with concierge like efficiency. They even removed tariffs so it was (is) easier to sell their goods here.
And today, what do I hear. The good people at Toyota wanted to have a meeting with their employees to discuss some possible changes to the work place agreement that was signed in 2011. Well, even after all the shit our manufacturing industries have been coping for the last decade, the union rushes into court to get an order to stop the meeting taking place. WTF? Have AMWU got their heads in the sand or what? Once there's no manufacturing left in Australia, WTF is the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union going to do for a job? Probably come around to my place and try to force me (and others like me) to join the union or they will shut me down for making a new brake pedal for my beeza... And while they are here, they may as well fine me for not having my electric tools and extension leads tagged. "No covers on the fluro lights huh, that's another fine". "Oh, where's your pie warmer? Fined". "Where's your yellow safety lines around dangerous work areas? Fined". "Is that your meal room? Fined. "We'll be back next week to make sure all these issues are addressed". "We've been kind enough to let a few things slide for now and trust you will have them addressed before we return". HAVE A GOOD DAY
No wonder the country is in such a mess. If it isn't the politicians screwing us every way they can, the unions that are paid to supposedly help us keep our jobs screw our employers every time they can...just for shits and giggles.
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This is democracy at work,...
We only know what is going on by our forth estate the so called Main Stream Media. If the electorate had any idea just how criminal some of our politicians are, they would never obtain public office. The Internet and social media is starting to change this. Gillard and the AWU scandal is almost going to court now. I suspect the Hawke era would not made two terms in the internet age. We have just witnessed a minority Government perverting the course of justice with the Craig Thomson matter. What we have seen first hand is Institutional Corruption. Michael Williams, it is claimed stole some 20 million dollars over 7 years. He was the president of the ALP and his daughter worked in Gillard's office. He was part of the ALP family tree.
So democracy is not really working. We have an almost impossible task trying to make an informed decision.
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Topari, you're a nut job.
Have a look at where the Craig Thomson case is up to, and then come and tell me what is really going on.
If the Gillard/AWU beat-up amounts to anything, then I will be VERY surprised.
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Topari, you're a nut job.
Have a look at where the Craig Thomson case is up to, and then come and tell me what is really going on.
If the Gillard/AWU beat-up amounts to anything, then I will be VERY surprised.
Fair Work bounced the Thomson brief around for 3 years. It was 6 weeks work tops. Had Thomson fallen, Labor would have lost Government. Labor is still paying his legal fees.
Gillard / AWU is tricky. If it does go the distance I too will be surprised. The case does show what sort of person she is. I did not know she was fired for S&G for her conduct.
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C'mon Tom, what about the rest of the Thomson story? Like the bike where the magistrate is increasingly ripping it into the prosecution for not having any sort of case? Or where the reported $500,000 is down to less than $20k? Where his "pornographic movies" may have actually been the Sound of Music?
I think the bloke is a grub, but no more than, say, Barnaby Joyce...
Gillard/AWU, Thomson/HSU and Slipper/cab charges are all complete beat-ups. The dollar value of Slipper's cab charges (and I strongly suspect that he did misuse them) is WAY below all of the exposed LNP MP's travel rorts. And yet we're supposed to believe that Slipper is Satan's right-hand man, while the multitude of LNP MPs were just misunderstood?
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holden (GM) have pulled the plug locally now that the Thai factory isclose to coming on line.
costs have driven them offshore... unions, work practises and excessive OH&S requirements along with stupid electricity prices have shot the dog.....
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That's cool let the bastards go off shore. Just DON'T LET FORD OR HOLDEN SELL CARS BACK TO AUSTRALIA IN THE FUTURE.if where not good enough to make there cars there not good enough to have our money. Getting back to the government making a car manufacturer we as tax payers have already paid for our manufacturing plants by giving the bastards our TAX money to keep them going. If the government had balls it would tell the both companies to leave now. So then we could take over the plants we've already paid for. Jimson
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That's cool let the bastards go off shore. Just DON'T LET FORD OR HOLDEN SELL CARS BACK TO AUSTRALIA IN THE FUTURE.if where not good enough to make there cars there not good enough to have our money. Getting back to the government making a car manufacturer we as tax payers have already paid for our manufacturing plants by giving the bastards our TAX money to keep them going. If the government had balls it would tell the both companies to leave now. So then we could take over the plants we've already paid for. Jimson
I don't know about taking over the plants, but we could certainly find some use for the proving grounds at Lang Lang ;D
Imagine how much fun the VMX community could have in their....We could have a track for every era of bike. Hell, we could even bring along our road bike brothers and sisters for a blast on the asphalt.
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Anyone who has ever been self employed or run a business that is paid for by themselves are the only ones who will understand what a F##kup the Aussie gobernment hoop jumping excercise is.
Untill a system where the people who put up the cash to open and run busineses are treated and rewarded better than those that they employ this country will continue to run in reverse.
The is one thing that I have never understood in this joint is the attitude of the worker and the unions that once you get a job that the job is YOURS, what a crock.
The "worker" complains about everything but thr reality of it is that you do not have to go to a job that you do not like or that cannot pay what you want, Quit and get another one.
Your pay packet is the reward for your effort, not for just turning up.
We have all stood beside the bludging asshole who whines and bitches about actually earning his crust but puts more effort into avoiding the task at hand than it takes to do the job.
When the unions start to understand that little profit means NO investment there will be little industry in this country.
The current situation in Newcastle sees the state leasing the port for the next 100yrs, people are up in arms but the gov knows that their own legislation makes the running of this enterprise too much hard work so they will let someone else suffer the pain and just tax the ass of them.
Licenceing, OHS, workers comp, holiday loading, layers of taxation, penalty rates, maternity leave, sick pay,Daily tool box meetings, requirement of a ticket to do everything but fart, excessive regos, fuel costs, electricity costs, environmental levies, fire services levies, terrorist levies, emergency services levies on all insurances, and more,and they wonder why business is going broke.
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Its not all doom and gloom for Australia.
Wedding industries going to pick up soon :) ;)
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The ACT Same-Sex marriage bill was overturned by the high court yesterday, if that's what you're referring to.
The ACT government had thought that they could add to the federal marriage act without upsetting it - but apparently not. The issue is now clearly a federal one.
Unless Turnbull is about to take a shot at the Liberal leadership (considering the way they've swan dived in the opinion polls, this is more likely than you might assume), there's no way we will see same-sex marriage under this government.
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Kellogs just bailed from down the road from me,100 people out of work :o,their factory in Canada, 500 ppl,globilization again ,catchy word that ::),guess where your LCM's will be coming from,ta dah,Thailand, :P
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Unless Turnbull is about to take a shot at the Liberal leadership (considering the way they've swan dived in the opinion polls, this is more likely than you might assume), there's no way we will see same-sex marriage under this government.
[/quote]
Why do some leso's dress up as blokes for the wedding ???
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I don't know about taking over the plants, but we could certainly find some use for the proving grounds at Lang Lang ;D
Imagine how much fun the VMX community could have in their....We could have a track for every era of bike. Hell, we could even bring along our road bike brothers and sisters for a blast on the asphalt
Without placing levity on this otherwise important subject, would it make sense for the motorsports community to begin lobbying for Lang Lang to be transferred over for motorsports use once Holden moves to Thailand? Or will they still maintain a local R&D department?............just thinking aloud :-\
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The ACT Same-Sex marriage bill was overturned by the high court yesterday, if that's what you're referring to.
The ACT government had thought that they could add to the federal marriage act without upsetting it - but apparently not. The issue is now clearly a federal one.
Unless Turnbull is about to take a shot at the Liberal leadership (considering the way they've swan dived in the opinion polls, this is more likely than you might assume), there's no way we will see same-sex marriage under this government.
Naughty !
The ACT arm of the Labor party knew only too well the Act would be challenged and fail. It was absolutely clear in law. The 7 High court judges had no problem squashing it. Again we see the destructive nature of politics in this country. The ACT could have tried while their team was in power, but Gillard said NO !. Labor.ACT used the timing as political tool against Abbott. Then we see Milne and Hyphen-what ever tell all and sundry just how bad Abbott is. Mean while Rome burns.
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Sorelegs11. your comments are spot on.
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Sorelegs, you hit the nail on the head......I've had my own business for 25 years and I make a pittance now to what it was years ago. Also, big business needs small business to survive and small business needs big business to survive....the merry go round, government needs the tax that these businesses pay as a business and an employer.....take a seat out of the merry go round and it starts to vibrate and then eventually stops....no one makes money = government goes broke....look at Europe....that's where we are heading.
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The only way they can fix it, is if they turn the vacant factories into indoor vmx stadiums ! ;D
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I'm also with sorelegs11.
l just went to Big W to buy some Lego for my boy, understandably its was quite busy and l always go through the register with a human rather than self serve and once again l got through quicker than those .... people... that see some advantage to serving themselves. But even if it takes a couple of minutes longer, I'll take a human over a machine.
Yesterday l was at the NAB standing in line with around 6 other people. This branch has just had a remodel and the teller booths have gone from 6 to 3 ! So some employee approaches me while lm in the line to engage me in pleasant conversation and to see if they can help, lm standing in fucting queue you knob, open up another teller spot and get the line down ffs.
Same at the supermarket with the self serve, do the general public not see that self serve is only there to save big business money buy cutting jobs. If people don't use self serve in these large shopping places they will be gone and jobs will be saved.
Its only a little thing l know, but we're all cogs in the wheel.
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Basic rule of the economy: Someone's expense is another person's income.
Cut the expense, and you're cutting someone's income - one winner and one loser.
There are no good answers, but until we realise this as a nation (and as a society), we are not going to make good decisions.
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Anyone who has ever been self employed or run a business that is paid for by themselves are the only ones who will understand what a F##kup the Aussie gobernment hoop jumping excercise is.
Untill a system where the people who put up the cash to open and run busineses are treated and rewarded better than those that they employ this country will continue to run in reverse.
The is one thing that I have never understood in this joint is the attitude of the worker and the unions that once you get a job that the job is YOURS, what a crock.
The "worker" complains about everything but thr reality of it is that you do not have to go to a job that you do not like or that cannot pay what you want, Quit and get another one.
Your pay packet is the reward for your effort, not for just turning up.
We have all stood beside the bludging asshole who whines and bitches about actually earning his crust but puts more effort into avoiding the task at hand than it takes to do the job.
When the unions start to understand that little profit means NO investment there will be little industry in this country.
The current situation in Newcastle sees the state leasing the port for the next 100yrs, people are up in arms but the gov knows that their own legislation makes the running of this enterprise too much hard work so they will let someone else suffer the pain and just tax the ass of them.
Licenceing, OHS, workers comp, holiday loading, layers of taxation, penalty rates, maternity leave, sick pay,Daily tool box meetings, requirement of a ticket to do everything but fart, excessive regos, fuel costs, electricity costs, environmental levies, fire services levies, terrorist levies, emergency services levies on all insurances, and more,and they wonder why business is going broke.
Nonsense. I work for a company that a former CEO lost $9 billion in one deal. When asked about the issue, it was all about the world not living up to his expectations. How many "workers" sitting around could ever burn $9 billion? Current corporate management thinking is to despise anyone who has the temerity to tell them where they are going wrong. The company that I work for, spends 3 times the amount of money on band aids to avoiding paying any money on maintenance as what it does to fix the original problem. That's nothing to do with unions,electricity prices or anything else. This company also spends $50 million per annum on lawyers and consultants (Bain and Co) to help them manage an Australia wide field staff of 5000. So $50,000 directly plus salaries of 'productivity managers' and countless company hours just to dig up useless informationon one solitary "worker".
Todays managers and captians of industry are focus on their own goals rather than the company they work for. More often than not fail upwards inside a corporation or move to another company and continue with havoc there.
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I don't know about taking over the plants, but we could certainly find some use for the proving grounds at Lang Lang ;D
Imagine how much fun the VMX community could have in their....We could have a track for every era of bike. Hell, we could even bring along our road bike brothers and sisters for a blast on the asphalt
Without placing levity on this otherwise important subject, would it make sense for the motorsports community to begin lobbying for Lang Lang to be transferred over for motorsports use once Holden moves to Thailand? Or will they still maintain a local R&D department?............just thinking aloud :-\
I don't think there is going to be any R&D after Holden finalises it's departure Mark. As far as I have heard, all future Holden cars will be imported. No doubt from Chevy in Detroit or Thailand.
I reckon it would be a prime time for the motorsports community to start oiling the wheels for getting Lang Lang as a motorsport venue before someone wants to rip it all up and turn it into footy fields or a golf course. Something along the lines of Broadford with a bit of Eastern Creek thrown in for good measure. It would be a much better option than letting the place deteriorate into a weed garden. No neighbors to get in the way either.
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With all the doom and gloom about manufacturing and the economy, you'd think people would lift their game. Went to the Kawasaki shop yesterday to source some seals for rear brake, when I told the parts guy 1981 he just looked at me stupid and said "nah mate, we dont carry anything that far back" wasnt even interested in making a phone call, needless to say I didnt ask about the fork springs for the same bike. Went home rang up a site in America, "yes sir we will have them in stock, will just check" gone for a minute, "sorry about the delay sir, we have them in stock and can ship today" Say no more, no wonder we are ratshit.
Ken Baker #54
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You’re dead right it is about lifting our game. I work in the mining industry and deal with contractors and vendors that have no comprehension of money – they’re just numbers shuffled around on accounting reports! When I approach a service provider to quote a simple task that a few years ago would have been done for a carton I’m given a four or five digit quote in the knowledge it’s un accountable by anyone that could put a sense of reason to it.
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I don't know about taking over the plants, but we could certainly find some use for the proving grounds at Lang Lang ;D
Imagine how much fun the VMX community could have in their....We could have a track for every era of bike. Hell, we could even bring along our road bike brothers and sisters for a blast on the asphalt
Without placing levity on this otherwise important subject, would it make sense for the motorsports community to begin lobbying for Lang Lang to be transferred over for motorsports use once Holden moves to Thailand? Or will they still maintain a local R&D department?............just thinking aloud :-\
Makes sense to me,but the powers to be would never agree.I wonder if any pollies have read any of the comments that have been posted so far? Probably not.Maybe we should get on to "The Motoring Enthusiasts Party"candidate.Give him something to do.
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With all the doom and gloom about manufacturing and the economy, you'd think people would lift their game. Went to the Kawasaki shop yesterday to source some seals for rear brake, when I told the parts guy 1981 he just looked at me stupid and said "nah mate, we dont carry anything that far back" wasnt even interested in making a phone call, needless to say I didnt ask about the fork springs for the same bike. Went home rang up a site in America, "yes sir we will have them in stock, will just check" gone for a minute, "sorry about the delay sir, we have them in stock and can ship today" Say no more, no wonder we are ratshit.
Ken Baker #54
Big mistake. Never tell the parts guy what it's for. Just quote part numbers. He doesn't need to know and doesn't care anyway. If he or the manufacturer doesn't have it ask him to check every dealer OZ wide for it. Yamaha have that service and will write down contact details for you.
In the manuals and technical doco on the front page of the forum is all the part numbers and diagrams you will ever need.
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I often waste my time going from shop to shop in this town trying to buy something.
The last search was for a Garmin GPS mount.
There are 7 shops listed as selling Garmin in this town.
Never did get what I wanted , one shop said that they sold Garmin stuff but did not stock it , another shop said that the had sold one last month and had not bothered restocking.. :o
I have now taken to saying " just remember that I came to you first and now I'me going home to buy it off Ebay ".
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" just remember that I came to you first and now I'me going home to buy it off Ebay ".
l like that Mick.
When l visit the local Kawasaki dealer to try for parts, they have to get the parts fish out as my models are not in their computer, anyway the last time owner said 'have we actually sold you anything yet ?' (they had) They're probably not going to have it in stock even if its available but l try to keep the money in town. It made me feel that even looking for air cooled kdx parts was a waste of his time ! At least the parts blokes aren't like that.
lm going to try the part number next time Ted.
You don't just buy parts at bike shops.
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None of the bike shops that I have tried can be bothered looking for parts for obsolete bikes, even if you have purchased a new bike from them and shit loads of tyres.... They're just not interested. It's amazing how quick they will tell you that the part you want is no longer available though. Even when you tell them you can get it off the "net", they tell you "you best get it from there then"! So what is it with having the "dead stock" fishes that ALL dealers can use then?
Service in this once great country has hit an all time low. Not just in bike shops, but near on every shop you go to. It's like anything you ask for is a pain in the arse. Even at the local bakery where they see you 3 or 4 times a week. The person at the counter of the local IGA will stand staring at you while they talk to their boyfriend on the ode cologne. At least you know when you walk into coles or woolies, you aren't going to get any service.
I've only ever had the displeasure of owning one brand new car in my life. Yep, it was a Holden. A 5.7 litre VY one tonner when they first came out. I was fencing at the time and when I realised that the car could not carry anything above 600kg safely, I went to the dealer and complained, with a load on the back to demonstrate. The headlights were pointing to the sky. I was told I shouldn't have ordered the steel tray as that reduced the carrying capacity..... WTF. Cut a long story short, I got some of the load helper springs from the local auto parts shop, and when I was fitting them, I had to take the lower mounting plate off to fit the load helpers. What did I see under the leaf springs? "Made in Taiwan". I thought, no wonder it won't carry a load. Then I had clutch problems. It wouldn't pull a 6'x4' trailer of gravel up a steep driveway. I was told by the dealer that I was over loading the car. I asked to put in a warranty claim anyway as the car was useless to me as it was . Reluctantly, the dealer did it. 2 weeks later, a new clutch was fitted. Then 5th gear started whining. Another warranty claim. Yep, got a new gearbox. Another month or so, 6th gear shit itself when I was driving home with nothing on the back and an empty trailer. Back to the dealer again with my tales of woe, only to be told that I bought the wrong vehicle for the job....I should of got a Rodeo! I had to argue to get him to put in a warranty claim for me. Anyway, the 2nd new gearbox got fitted and I sold the car. It didn't even have 30 thousand K's on it! Only god knows what else would of gone wrong if I kept it.
I will NEVER buy another new car, of any make. My experience left me with a very bitter taste in my mouth. I wonder how many more people are out there that can relate to my story? Probably more than the car industry will ever admit to.
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In 1988 I bought a VT 5ltr SS. Of the 13 weeks I had it 7 of those were spent in the shop. When I enquired why it had so many issues he said its the first of a new model. I said that Holden are celebrating 50 years of making cars and still can't make them. He just shrugged his shoulders. Sold it for 15K less than I paid for it. Absolute garbage.
I now drive Subaru. Fantastic cars and service.
As far as work vehicles go you cannot go past Iveco Daily. 40 K service intervals instead of every 5K for the Japs. 200,000 K's in 5 years without any problems. Much more comfortable and easily more powerful than anything in its class. Just recently towed a fully loaded 5 bike trailer weighing two tonnes to Grafton from Sydney in just under 6 hours. 36 hours driving time Sydney to Perth. They are a good thing.
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Ted .... are you saying the oil and filters gets changed at 40,000klm intervals ::)
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In 1988 I bought a VT 5ltr SS. Of the 13 weeks I had it 7 of those were spent in the shop. When I enquired why it had so many issues he said its the first of a new model. I said that Holden are celebrating 50 years of making cars and still can't make them. He just shrugged his shoulders. Sold it for 15K less than I paid for it. Absolute garbage.
I now drive Subaru. Fantastic cars and service.
As far as work vehicles go you cannot go past Iveco Daily. 40 K service intervals instead of every 5K for the Japs. 200,000 K's in 5 years without any problems. Much more comfortable and easily more powerful than anything in its class. Just recently towed a fully loaded 5 bike trailer weighing two tonnes to Grafton from Sydney in just under 6 hours. 36 hours driving time Sydney to Perth. They are a good thing.
Yeah, I had an Iveco daily 40C13 model when I was operating my bike transport business. I used to average around 6000k's every 9-10 days, always with bikes in the back and a 6 bike trailer behind. It was a fantastic little truck. Never missed a beat in the 4 years I owned it. And it was comfortable with plenty of leg room, unlike the Mercedes sprinter tray back. It would sit on 100kmh all day long and pull a decent clip going up hills as well. As a matter of fact, I had to keep an eye on the speedo so it didn't get away on me. When I got home, it was my race bike transporter and I slept in the back. Me and a mate drove it over to Narrogin WA for WAVMX 15th year anniversary, fully loaded with bikes, spares and enough gear for 3 blokes. Never missed a beat. Great little trucks.
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Ted .... are you saying the oil and filters gets changed at 40,000klm intervals ::)
That's correct. Iveco Daily service intervals are every 40 thousand kilometers . Approx $800 a pop
Unlike the Isuzu I had before it. Service every 5 thousand at approx $700 a pop. Do the maths.
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I did my own services with my Iveco. I changed the oil and filters every 10,000km's. Pretty much after every big trip. Better to have clean oil than to stretch it out to becoming no better than chip oil. The only time I went to a dealer was when I had to replace the diff and gearbox oils after driving through floods. That needed the Iveco approved oils that are used to continue with the warranty. Replacing the working end of the brake system, pads and discs, was the most I ever spent on the little truck. $800 and I was all set with new brakes. They are four wheel discs so I thought that was reasonable seeing as I didn't have to get my hands dirty. If I didn't make the truck carry so much weight every where I went, the brakes probably would of lasted a lot longer than 200,000 k's.
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Just read in todays paper [ may not be correct ] that the workers at GMH Australia were paid $50 per hr to work on the line.
I am wondering why people getting paid $20 per hr and washing toilets for a living have been subsidizing these guys , and others that I won't mention at this time.
Recipe for a future civil disturbance I rekon.
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The GMH workers also pay about 3 Million per year in union fees. The last 6 years saw the unions well represented in Government. If the electorate continue to support the Government we may see a lot of adjustments in Australia. However, WorkChoices apparently was not well received. I'm not confident. The new candidate for Rudd's seat is an expert in IR and employment law. Just the type of person we could do without.
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Toyota is a gonner too.
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My neighbour used to work for Denso. Tells me friend there says Toyota out in New Year.
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http://www.smh.com.au/comment/holden-the-car-makers-australian-exit-is-a-good-thing-20131214-2zdvv.html#ixzz2nX5MAJQG
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Are those wage figures correct? Or more lies, designed to demonise Holden, its workers and "unions"?
They seem highly unlikely to me...
There's a bloke on another forum who says he's recently taken a redundancy from Holden. 4-weeks pay for taking the redundancy, and 3 weeks pay for every year of service. He also claims that most blokes are paid around $800/week.
So you'd need to have worked there for hundreds of years to get the reported "typical" $300k~500k redundancy payout...
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More generally, the car industry is not that important by itself. But it is significan because it is a reliable indicator of the health of a country's manufacturing sector.
Ford and Holden (and Toyota?) not making cars in Australia IS a big deal - not because we need new Falcadores, but because their absence shows that our manufacturing sector is up shit creek.
Manufacturing is very important because it adds a lot of value, and employs a wide range of skill levels (professionals through to unskilled labor).
There are a number of reasons why the car industry is heavily subsidised across the globe. Let us not forget what the US government did for GM in the wake of the GFC...
I predicted an Australian recession within six months of the election. This may well be what precipitates it.
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This is a complex situation.
Among other things there is no comparison between U.S.A. and most other countries financially supporting a local car industry.
G.M. IS an American owned company. and they are supporting there own.
Likewise Italy with Fiat etc.
Holden is NOT an OZ company. It's owned by U.S.A.
Perhaps this place was wrong when so much effort was put into setting up the ol' '48 series 215'
Holden, which lead us into building an auto parts industry, maybe the effort would have been better spent continuing with other enterprises, maybe continuing aircraft manufacturing, boat and ship building skills gained from wartime manufacturing.
Meanwhile we did have 'Australians own Holden', why the hell did all the OZ State, and Fed. governments and also local Govt. stop buying Holdens, and Falcons in favour of swanning 'round in fancy Euro imports?
When Govt departments used locals, the used car market got low K. bargains, Buyers were very happy with their purchases, plus these cars kept local owned service and repair and part manufacturers in business.
Cheers pancho.
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Related to pancho's comments:
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/holden-angered-by-media-reports-it-did-not-submit-bid-to-supply-blastproof-vehicles-for-australian-government-vips-20131212-2zaai.html#poll
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Another report [ which may not be correct ] states that workers at Toyota get 2 1/2 times for working on a Sunday and that they don't need a Doctors certificate for less than 5 days off.
If these reports are true then she's not a bad sort of job these guys are loosing.
Almost as good as being elected for Government.
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Are those wage figures correct? Or more lies, designed to demonise Holden, its workers and "unions"?
They seem highly unlikely to me...
Mate, you live in a dream world. Do you seriously think that a process line worker at GMH is on $40K pa?
Most of my work is for BlueScope Steel except now I have to work in Asia, away from my family and friends for long periods of time as there is very little work for me in Australia. BlueScope Steel in Austrlala has been screwed so hard by the unions in their negotiations for enterprise bargaining that Australian made steel is no longer competitive on the world market. The average semi-skilled process worker enjoys a salary package well in excess of $100k pa.The union bastardry at BlueScope Steel in Hastings Victoria forced the closure of nearly the whole plant, with only limited processes producing small amounts of product. (Of course, I may well be lying, just to demonise the company, workers and unions.) I work for an engineering consultancy and my chargeout rate is quite high compared to engineering consultancies based in Asia, so I work a minimum 80 hours every week for 40 hours pay, just to give the client value for the money that they are spending on me. Perhaps I should think about a career in public service.....
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Yes yama any one who have worked for themself knows about hours worked, but don't forget about the international tricks done with currency, the U.S. and China the best at it, down grading the value of their currency to get unfair advantage.
Simple example, a friend had a company manufacturing high quality steel and stainless plus lead shielded conveyors for export. three per year at $1.25 million a piece. OZ dollar circa 83 US.
What happened when the OZ dollar went to $110 US?
The buyer said are you nuts? we can get the same thing from Germany 30% cheaper!
What followed was a slow decent into bankruptcy and and thirty more out of work.
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From the article, my bold:
The base rate for Holden production workers is about $80,000 a year.
$80k with OT and penalties and Super I can believe.
$80k as a base rate is much harder to swallow - which is why I asked the question...
Most of the HV mechanics at my work get paid in the $70k range. This is including a 25% shift loading, despite them working not-particularly-obnoxious shifts. Upper management always wants to change this, but the simple reality is that if they took the loading away, all of the above-average workers would disappear to the mines.
As it is, they have problems recruiting competent, qualified people "because the money isn't good enough"...
The boss is on record as saying that he wishes he was legally allowed to advertise for workers who have young kids, because they need the income/stability and because they don't disappear to mine jobs.
I imagine Holden faces a similar issue.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo
Find this interesting? Like take the taxpayers money and run?
The fat cats do well, nobody else!
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Also, in relation to the 'massive overpayment of OZ workers, My son, a qualified, licenced motor mech. with Auto Elect. training, Rego Insp. plus management experience with various auto service providers is working at a repairers business down the Hume highway a bit for Mech Trade Award wages. $18.00 per hour! Massively overpaid?? I think not.
pancho
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Are those wage figures correct? Or more lies, designed to demonise Holden, its workers and "unions"?
They seem highly unlikely to me...
Mate, you live in a dream world. Do you seriously think that a process line worker at GMH is on $40K pa?
Most of my work is for BlueScope Steel except now I have to work in Asia, away from my family and friends for long periods of time as there is very little work for me in Australia. BlueScope Steel in Austrlala has been screwed so hard by the unions in their negotiations for enterprise bargaining that Australian made steel is no longer competitive on the world market. The average semi-skilled process worker enjoys a salary package well in excess of $100k pa.The union bastardry at BlueScope Steel in Hastings Victoria forced the closure of nearly the whole plant, with only limited processes producing small amounts of product. (Of course, I may well be lying, just to demonise the company, workers and unions.) I work for an engineering consultancy and my chargeout rate is quite high compared to engineering consultancies based in Asia, so I work a minimum 80 hours every week for 40 hours pay, just to give the client value for the money that they are spending on me. Perhaps I should think about a career in public service.....
How much are you paid pa?
Having been through 15 or 20 Enterprise Bargaining agreements and being part of the negotiations a few times never have the "unions" been able to hold a gun to management. Each and every time the agreement has resulted in an erosion of conditions for and increase in wages or agreeing to managements wishlist. In order to earn over a $100k a year you will be doing a filthy dirty,boring and probably dangerous job for long hours on odd shifts. If not I'm looking for a job there. Want a career in the public service? This is what you get day in day out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDHSa-1s8wY
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this shits way too deep for me :o, :P
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I'm glad I retired when I did seven years ago. I had two days to make up my mind so I took a punt and did it. It was the best decision of my life.
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My minimum $24 my max $30 & + +
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Are those wage figures correct? Or more lies, designed to demonise Holden, its workers and "unions"?
They seem highly unlikely to me...
Mate, you live in a dream world. Do you seriously think that a process line worker at GMH is on $40K pa?
Most of my work is for BlueScope Steel except now I have to work in Asia, away from my family and friends for long periods of time as there is very little work for me in Australia. BlueScope Steel in Austrlala has been screwed so hard by the unions in their negotiations for enterprise bargaining that Australian made steel is no longer competitive on the world market. The average semi-skilled process worker enjoys a salary package well in excess of $100k pa.The union bastardry at BlueScope Steel in Hastings Victoria forced the closure of nearly the whole plant, with only limited processes producing small amounts of product. (Of course, I may well be lying, just to demonise the company, workers and unions.) I work for an engineering consultancy and my chargeout rate is quite high compared to engineering consultancies based in Asia, so I work a minimum 80 hours every week for 40 hours pay, just to give the client value for the money that they are spending on me. Perhaps I should think about a career in public service.....
How much are you paid pa?
Having been through 15 or 20 Enterprise Bargaining agreements and being part of the negotiations a few times never have the "unions" been able to hold a gun to management. Each and every time the agreement has resulted in an erosion of conditions for and increase in wages or agreeing to managements wishlist. In order to earn over a $100k a year you will be doing a filthy dirty,boring and probably dangerous job for long hours on odd shifts. If not I'm looking for a job there. Want a career in the public service? This is what you get day in day out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDHSa-1s8wY
How much am I paid?? How is that relevant? Don't know where you work but I am talking about my experience and the production workers there work rotating shiftwork at an average of 40 hours per week in a clean, safe environment, and earn well in excess of 100K pa. You could apply for a job there but you wouldn't get one.
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OK Tim I asks myself (What to do for a job?) a while back after another business I was working for shut up shop.
Lets see Retail - , OK hours , low pay , out off the weather ,face to face with the good and the shitfull public. Been there done that....
Agriculture- Long long hours .low low pay , Always in the weather or animal shit or both. Strangely most of Joe Public does not understand what a hard life it is to feed and clothe them. Been there done that....
Manufacturing- Out of the weather, Shift work, Much improved pay, Companies going "Off Shore end of subject" Been there sort of liked it...
Education Hmmm Good pay , fellowstaff has lots of whingers that live in an alternative universe with little concept of work .... Been there no comment..
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Labour cost is only one reason why BlueScope is struggling to be competitive. If they began to pay their employees third-world pay rates, it would not transform their fortunes...
Why are we all so keen to ignore property costs when we talk about international competitiveness? Internationally, our property is massively overpriced relative to wages - and this drives up the cost of everything. Personally, if the value (and consequently mortgage) of our place was in line with international standards, then I could afford to take a pretty significant pay DECREASE, with no loss in purchasing power.
Think about it - if your local bike shop was paying half as much rent, the trucking company was paying half as much rent on their depot, if your mechanic was paying half as much rent on his workshop, if the local supermarket was paying half as much rent... What would this do to prices?
There's been no wages break-out since The Accord of the mid-1980s, but there has been a massive boom in property prices in the last ten years...
How can we seriously argue that wages are the main reason for Australia being uncompetitive internationally?
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Spot on nathan the only ones that come out smelling of roses in the great land-grab of the 00,s were real estate fatcats and agents everyone else are now paying the price ! you've gotta feel for the average/battler kids future :-\
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Try again had to fly as it's 42+ degrees Celsius here , very strong dry winds and the unhappy wail the the local fire sirens summoning the volunteer fire fighters started. >:( Small grass fire quickly contained no persons injured or property damaged...
OK Tim I asks myself (What to do for a job?) a while back after another business I was working for shut up shop.
Lets see Retail - , OK hours , low pay , out off the weather ,face to face with the good and the shitfull public. Been there done that....
Agriculture- Long long hours .low low pay , Always in the weather or animal shit or both. Strangely most of Joe Public does not understand what a hard life it is to feed and clothe them. Been there done that....
Manufacturing- Out of the weather, Shift work, Much improved pay, Companies going "Off Shore end of subject" Been there sort of liked it...
Education - Hmmm Good pay , fellow staff has lots of whingers that live in an alternative universe with little concept of work .... Been there, no comment..
Settled on Rubbish - Hey we all throw away and waste SO much in Australia, so I am always needed (yes needed not wanted, because of the 'nimby" effect. where to put this shit?. Not In MY Back Yard ;)) Peaceful sometimes during the 9 hours on the days I open , I only have 2 or 3 customers..Got all the mod cons like generator (No mains power) Tank with 2500 lts of rain water, portable toilet, mobile phone (with gorgeously lousy reception ;)) cockatoos , kangaroos , lots of poisonous snakes, and my self made succulent/cactus gardens to maintain, I am basically my own boss as there is no other employees on site ;) Only work three days a week....and well we all throw away and waste SO much in Australia!
Cheers Tim754
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Had a bloke come in the other day who had quit his job as auto electrician to stack shelves at woolies.
Reckons the hours are better and so is the money.
Go figure ???
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Sorelegs, I've known a few people who have done similar things. Those that I've spoken to, have actually taken pay cuts, but they've been prepared to do so for the security and the lack of stress.
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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/12/holden-this-nauseating-job-loss-porn-fails-to-ask-the-hard-questions
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Auto electrician $35hr - houses in Auckland going up 15-17% per year in Auckland less around rest of country. We have had 5-6 years down turn you are just going in to it as mineral and steel sales slow down for you.
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Auto electrician $35hr - houses in Auckland going up 15-17% per year in Auckland less around rest of country. We have had 5-6 years down turn you are just going in to it as mineral and steel sales slow down for you.
Steel is on the move Bazza ;)
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DC said pass on a kiss to you Craigy, you at markets tomorrow?
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Got sent this today
ONLY $150 million a year will save Holden? Rubbish. The Holden Enterprise Agreement is the document that has utterly sunk Holden's prospects. It defies belief that someone in the company isn't being held to account for it.
Holden's management masks a union culture beyond most people's comprehension. Employment costs spiralled way beyond community standards long ago. Neither "pay freezes" nor more money will save Holden, but getting the Fair Work Commission to dissolve the agreement and put all workers on the award wage might be a start.
In 1991, the pre-enterprise bargaining award wage of a Holden entry level process worker was $462.80 a week. In 1992, Holden began enterprise bargaining and now a worker at that same classification level has a base rate of $1194.50 a week, a 158 per cent increase, or a compound increase of 4.4 per cent year on year for 22 years. Right now, base wage rates for process workers in the Holden enterprise agreement are in the $60,000 to $80,000 per year range and in recent times, "hardship payments" of $3750 were given to each worker.
The modern award for such workers mandates base rates in the $37,000 to $42,000 range. This means that before we add any of the shift penalties, loadings, 26 allowances and the added cost of productivity restrictions, Holden begins each working day paying its workforce almost double what it should. After you add in the other employment costs, I estimate Holden's workforce costs it somewhere close to triple the amount it should.
Many people who work at Holden don't actually work for Holden; they work for the union. Occupational health and safety people are given 10 days' paid time off a year to be trained by the union. Most companies do not allow unions to train their OH&S people because the knowledge is used to control the workplace to the benefit of the union.
Union delegates are also allowed up to 10 paid days a year for union training in how to be effective union delegates and two of these delegates are entitled to an extra Holden sponsorship of one paid month off to "further their industrial and/or leadership development".
Holden's rules on hiring casuals are shocking and unheard of in today's market. The agreement forbids Holden from hiring casuals except when a "short-term increase in workload, or other unusual circumstances occurs". If this situation arises Holden has to "consult and reach agreement" with the union. Further, "Engagement of the agreed number of casual personnel will be for the agreed specified tasks and the agreed specified periods." If any of this changes, Holden must get union agreement again. After three months of continuous full-time work a casual must be made permanent. It is impossible to run a business like this.
An ex-employee from Adelaide, on condition of anonymity, consented to an interview yesterday. He described the workforce as "over-managed", with one team leader for every six workers on the production line, when one for every 25 workers would suffice.
He said "some of us workers felt it wasn't necessary to get paid what we were getting paid to do the jobs we were doing", adding that their work is probably worth about "20 bucks an hour". A few years back, mates took redundancy packages in the order of "$280k plus". Workers are "like sheep" that blindly follow the union leadership. At induction, new workers are ushered into one-on-one meetings with the union rep who heavies them into joining. "It is made clear that if you don't join the union you will be sacked," he said. Union representatives "don't actually do any work for Holden", but rather make themselves full-time enforcers of union control.
He says workers are drug tested before hiring, but "only have to stay off it for a few weeks, get in the door and then you'll be right". Workers caught taking drugs or being drug-affected at work are allegedly put on a fully paid rehabilitation program, with special paid time off of about four weeks duration, before being let back into the workforce.
Australian workplaces have a zero tolerance for drug use, with instant dismissal the remedy, but at Holden "the union won't let the company sack" any workers caught dealing, taking or being on drugs. "If they did a random drug test tomorrow they'd probably have to sack 40 per cent of the workforce," he adds.
If the Holden scenario were playing out in a privately owned business, proper cost-cutting strategies would be used. If you have the will and can hire the skill, there are many ways to cut labour costs. The workers can be given a couple of years notice of significant wage drops and can receive lump sum payouts of entitlements to help bring down family debt.
Of course, these strategies are only ever used by business people who have no one else to bail them out. It seems Holden would rather leave the country than dissolve its enterprise agreement. The union thinks members are better off jobless than on award wages. Holden's fate seems sealed.
If Holden does leave, workers will receive the most generous redundancy benefits around. Holden says leaving will cost $600m. Most of this will go to staff payouts. The fellow interviewed agrees with my calculation: the average production-line worker will walk away with a redundancy package of between $300k-500k.
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That was the article with the figures that I was questioning.
$80k as a base rate for a factory worker sounds like a steaming load of shit to me.
If it is accurate, then WTF is wrong with Holden management? They would have to have agreed big pay rises, multiple times for that to have happened.
Don't give me any "it's all the unions' fault" BS either, because the whole idea of Enterprise Bargaining is that both parties negotiate to a workable compromise.
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if the UNION was working in good faith , surely they will be the first to open the books on the collective agreement and its deals for their workers , Why would Holden pay soooooooooooo much to leave ?
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It has been reported [ may not be correct ] that many nations subsidize the automobile manufacturers in their country.
My question is WHY?
Is the making of an automobile not a viable proposition ?
Are automobiles makers like European farmers?
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Too much unions ends up in mass loss of productivity, no unions means workers who are not able to negotiate a decent deal for themselves or stick up for themselves loose out. ( not good either)
Tulla airport is a great example of over active unions, what ends up happening - bring in overseas labour for Air hostesses and send maintenance work overseas. Its all a link up!
The company i did my apprenticeship with is a great example of no unions (started 1984). I Worked for under award wages for 18 months, endured shit working conditions and i was the first person to wear Ear muffs in the whole place while angle grinding edges steel chequer plates. (i purchased them myself)....
I detest union Fat cats. I detest massive conglomerates fat cats too
Brett
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This is an interesting article about the state of affairs in Australia.
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=14777&page=2
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ON LINE opinion - Australia's e-journal of social and political debate
Who owns corporate Australia?
By Murray Hunter
Posted Monday, 11 March 2013
If you go and ask the "average" Australian on a Melbourne or Sydney street who owns the banks and large public companies in Australia, most will answer "Australians through superannuation and mutual funds". This belief gives Australians a sense of pride in "Australian private enterprise", and may even assist Australians grudgingly accept high bank charges and interest rates; "after all we own the banks".
However if one examines the annual reports of most of the large Australian public companies, names like HSBC, JP Morgan, Citibank, and BNP are very prominent in the tops 20 shareholders lists. There has been a major shift in the Australian corporate ownership-scape over the last decade. And a silent one at that.
Let's go back to the 1980s when Bob Hawke was Prime Minister of Australia. The ex-ACTU head did more than any other prime minister to liberalize the Australian economy. Hawke began deregulating the financial system, dismantled the tariff system, floated the Australian dollar, and privatized the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (planned under Hawke, executed under Keating). What was important here, there was no longer any distinction between savings and commercial banks and foreign banks could apply for licenses to operate directly in the Australian retail market. Keating followed on this liberalization path with the catch cry of creating a "level playing field".
These liberalizations allowed foreign investors to come into the Australian market, however foreign banks found it extremely difficult to start-up from scratch and compete with the local banks. However with the Asian financial crisis of 1997, and subsequent economic downturns within the Australian economy, foreign equity started slowly trickling in and buying up Australia's prime corporate assets. Mutual and investment funds were specifically important as these made excellent vehicles for investment in corporate Australia.
Today the ownership-scape of Australian banks is very different from the traditional past where Australian banks were owned by the "average Australian" through superannuation and investment funds. Although major shareholders are in fact mutual and investment funds, they are now managed by foreign interests who appoint their "proxy" directors to the boards, as the table shows.
Table 1. Major Shareholders in Australia's "Big Four" banks
Company
Combined HSBC (Nominees)
JP Morgan Nominees
Combined Citicorp
1
Commonwealth Bank
14.10%
11.13%
4.18%
2
National Australia Bank
16.94%
14.47%
3.33%
3
Westpac Bank
15.10%
12.27%
4.60%
4
ANZ Bank
18.88%
15.65%
5.41%
Apart from the top four shareholders shown above, an inspection of the data in the respective annual reports shows that most of the other top 20 shareholders are companies with a stake in more than one big bank. Moreover, ownership figures for the second tier banks, Bendigo and Adelaide Bank Limited, Suncorp-Metway Limited and Bank of Queensland Limited, show they are also owned by the same organisations that own the big four.
When one looks closely at who owns the big four banks it becomes clear that there is a lot of common ownership, suggesting that those banks may not in fact be independent, competing entities.
Due to the complex nature of the legal structures of shareholders and ways that the various shareholders work together, it is virtually impossible to determine who really controls the banks. Many of the other minor shareholders in the banks also have HSBC, JP Morgan and Citibank, along with many other European and US banks as their major shareholders. This argument is often countered by stating that HSBS, J.P. Morgan and Citibank are only investing on behalf of small investors. What is of issue here is control and it is the prerogative of the funds to appoint a director to the board of their choice, not the investors. These figures are also consistent with a recent worldwide study showing that most of the world's company equity is controlled by no more than 25 companies, of which have many of these companies have equity in the Australian banks.
One of the most interesting aspects that complement the cross-ownership in the big four Australian banks is the number of cross directorships in other foreign banks and financial institutions that exist in a wide manner. Studies have shown how even small cross-shareholding structures, at a national level, can affect market competition in sectors such as airline, automobile and steel, as well as the financial one.
When one turns to corporate Australia, one will find that it is very similar to the banks. Both commercial and mining companies ownership are dominated by HSBC Nominees, JP Morgan Nominees, and Citibank Nominees as the top three shareholders of most companies. If one examines company directorships there is a tight cross-linking across commerce, banking and mining in Australia today. Commerce, banking and mining are now part of an oligopoly.
Table 2. Major shareholder of Australia's largest public companies
Company
Combined HSBC (Nominees)
JP Morgan Nominees
Combined Citicorp
1
AMP
19.23%
13.88%
4.6%
2
BHP Billiton
17.36%
13.29
10.75
3
Brambles
25,85%
21.73%
8,77%
4
CSL
24.39%
17.43%
6.1%
5
Fosters Group
23.29%
21.23%
6.31%
6
Macquarie bank
19.06%
19.96%
6.08%
7
Newcrest Mining
37.83%
16.57%
4.94%
8
Origin Energy
15.83%
14.10%
5.17%
9
RioTinto
19.59%
16.68%
4.89%
10
Sun Corp
20.23%
17.09%
7.1%
11
Telstra
18.49%
12.5%
1.36%
12
Westfield
31.44%
25.0%
7.03%
12
Westfarmers
16.31%
13.77%
6.43%
13
Woolworths
16.50%
11.34%
4.025
14
Woodside
16.19%
11.97%
2.25%
The reality is that much of Australia isowned by faceless people hiding behind big nominee companies that are virtually impossible to research. Not to mention global investment banks, insurance companies and the Commonwealth public servant superannuation scheme. Many companies have directors that are involved in media, banking, and politics, with many ex-politicians coming onto boards when they leave the parliament.
We have seen the close relationships between business and politicians over many governments. And Labor has been able to stay long in government with this accommodation with business interests, ever since Bob Hawke achieved an understanding with a significant group within the dominant corporations of Australia. Big business probably has greater influence at state level where government can directly facilitate access to prime land and assets that each state controls.
Today in Australia, big business now is able to practice what could be called "bully capitalism" where they dictate terms unfairly to smaller businesses. For example rents charged to tenants in large shopping malls are calculated as a percentage of turnover, with systems in place that allow landlords to audit tenant sales, where profit is virtually regulated. Supermarkets in Australia now that a duopoly exists control over 90% of retail sales have been able to increase profit margins from 20% in the 1970s to over 50% today.
With so much ownership concentration of Australian business and industry through skillful fund control and use of company law and cross directorships, a very few people can exercise great influence over the Australian economy. Many company boards and directors can operate without much accountability. As the recent Jonathon Moylan case has shown, any statement about a company can easily manipulate share prices and make profits or losses of hundreds of Millions of dollars instantly.
The potential to easily manipulate share prices is there on a huge scale. HSBC Nominees, JP Morgan, and Citicorp Nominees are the 1st, 2nd and 4th largest shareholders in the Australian Stock Exchange as well.
The great myth is that Australia is a competitive economy. Most of Australia's largest companies have either monopolies or exercise some form of oligopoly. For example;
BHP Billiton, Rio Tinto, Woodside Petroleum, Newcrest Minerals, Fortescue Mining and Origin Energy all have monopoly control over the resources they exploit,
The four major banks exercise almost 90% control over all transactions in the economy and the smaller banks have the same shareholding as the 'big four" as well,
News Corporation controls over 80% of all metropolitan newspapers in Australia,
Westfarmers operate Coles, Bunnings, Target, Kmart, Officeworks in duopoly markets,
Telstra has a near monopoly,
Woolworths operates in a duopoly with Coles.
Westfield group operates a unique group of shopping centres without competition, and
CSL has an almost complete monopoly on all blood products.
The top businesses in Australia do not exist within competitive environments and are able to earn above average profits. This has potential consequences for local innovation, consequences for sustainable exploitation of resources, consequences for which industries survive and which industries are lost, and consequences for the cost of living for Australians, not to mention fairness and transparency in the marketplace.
Murray Hunter is an associate professor at the University Malaysia Perlis.
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I sincerely hope that through this re adjustment phase the Australian worker is recognised, we’ve endured hardships before and this latest one just needs to be understood better before we stand up to it!
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Another article worth reading.
... a highly unionised domestic car manufacturing industry could only survive behind a huge tariff wall If you float the dollar and deregulate finance, then you also needed to abandon existing work practises.
The article was written by Peter Costello.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/the-dinosaur-that-ate-holden/story-fni0cwl5-1226784404512
WHEN Holden announced last week it was leaving Australia one of the principle reasons it cited was the high value of the Australian dollar. Labor vented its outrage and blamed the Abbott government.
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Nathan I know "someone " who works for the other large Australian steel manufacturer (name starts with the letter "O") and the money the guys make in the mills is over AUD$100K pa.
There's no doubt it's hot horrible conditions in the summer and can be slightly dangerous albeit it's far safer than the 1980"s.
The Australian steel industry is competing against modern Asian mills who typically have their electricity subsidised along with the employee pay rates being probably one tenth of those equivalent roles in Australia.
It is also fact that a lot of the Asian mills and the trading houses that represent them in Australia are happy to sell product in this market lower than their home countries - otherwise known as dumping.
Makes for a pretty ugly existence given the strength of the Australian dollar on the greenback.
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Unzud has supermarket profits go back to Australia - and bank profits (except one new NZ bank) same profits back to Auz. Our wages have fallen way behind Australia. Now as you go deep in recession and the East wants your markets (manufacturing) Welcome to our world.
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Nathan I know "someone " who works for the other large Australian steel manufacturer (name starts with the letter "O") and the money the guys make in the mills is over AUD$100K pa.
Back in the late 90s, I knew a bloke who worked for BHP Steel as an operator. He was on ~$75k/year then. Presumably, if the job still exists, it's paying at least $100k now...
The more I think about it, the more I think that the real issue is wages vs housing affordability (including rent) - and that anyone who focuses only on "excessive" wages needs to be treated with great suspicion.
Personally, we live very simply, with a keen on our bang-for-buck (our newest car is 13 years old, most of our clothing comes from the op shop, 90% of our groceries come from Aldi, etc. We are forever despairing at the way various friends spend money on luxuries while complaining about how tough they're doing it...).
With a smaller than average mortgage, and two incomes (both around the national average), we get by just fine.
But if we were to try to feed four mouths on either one of our incomes, we would be financially paralysed - the bills could be paid, but there wouldn't be much money left ovr for the fun stuff... If interest rates returned to their Howard-era average, then there would be no money left over for the fun stuff.
http://economics.hia.com.au/media/House%20price%20to%20income%20ratio%20-%20FINAL.pdf
Noting the conclusions in this, housing was less affordable under Howard's "record low" interest rates than it was under Keating's sky high interest rates... ;)
Perhaps we do need a recession to burst the housing bubble... It's very hard to be excited about the misery a recession causes, but property prices are continuing to climb... They had levelled off for a couple of years there (2010ish), which meant they were dropping in relative terms. This would have been the ideal outcome (a "soft landing"), but it needed to run for a decade or so to make a real difference. Instead, it looks as though we are headed for a crash landing.