OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: TM BILL on October 28, 2013, 10:44:15 am
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Two rounds into the revamped NZ VMX series and pre 91 entries are abysmal ::)
After much talk and chest beating from those with Pre 91 bikes for the introduction of a class for them fork all have turned up >:(
At rd 1 we bolstered the class by having no bottom age limit (ie you could ride a pre 75 bike in that class should you choose to ) .
Why do we listen to the we want we want mob because when we deliver they obviously dont want it ::)
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Ira was wasn't there due to family commitments,but maybe those of us in the series with Pre 91 bikes in the shed should bring them along as well hint hint.
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Ira was wasn't there due to family commitments,but maybe those of us in the series with Pre 91 bikes in the shed should bring them along as well hint hint.
I wasn't there either due to other things on .
I ride 3 or 4 classes as it is ::) its all the we want we want mob im over ::) my 86 kdx is there for anyone to collect and race if they want .
Where are all the clowns who kept on that why is there no pre 90 class mob NOW , forking cyber racers ::)
Thank fork the CSC stick to their guns and dont listen to the we want we want mob :) as the WA model and CSC model proves stick to a programme and if others want change let THEM get off their arses and do somthing about it .
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Sounds like you're being a bit harsh there Bill, I guess with any form of racing, you can't expect much of a turn-out for the early events, surely it will take time for a new class to get-the-ball-rolling?
Once it is seen to be a regular class, people will buy bikes and build them, sure it's easier for the established classes, you've been running for years and your bikes are ready to go.
I tend to think that the 'more modern' bike racers may have a slightly different mind-set to the traditional older riders, in that they may prefer conditions to be a little more to their liking before coming out? eg; nice weather or prepared track.
I'm not saying what is wrong or right, maybe just a consideration when catering for new classes.
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Happy birthday John :)
My point is that we listened to these people and provided a class for them and now they dont turn up .
There are plenty of pre 91 bikes already out there ( or so you would believe after hearing for at least the last 5 yrs "why is there no class for us ") The one person who has done both the rds so far bought a bike and restored it once he new we were introducing the class.
I think your right about more modern mentality creeping in ::) forking hairdressers is the term i would use :)
Im pissed off because i should have known better ::) i pushed for the class after listening to the we want we want and if we keep on long enough we will get it mob , and as usual when they get it they dont want it >:(
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Gezzuz Bill your off Nathan's Chrissie card list ??? ::)
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Gezzuz Bill your off Nathan's Chrissie card list ??? ::)
LOL
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Happy birthday John :)
Thanks, never thought I'd reach 54 :-D
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Bill,I sense some angst mate :D
Give it time,it will grow,there is no doubt that it will gather momentum but I guess it will take a little longer.
I know of guys preparing bikes as we speak (including me) so let's not get too annoyed yet.
I also wonder if its worth telling the Pre 86 guys that they can ride up ???
Hope all is well
Liz :D
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So how long do we give it ::)
As i say for at least the last 5 yrs its been a topic thats bought up at every meeting , where are all the clowns who turned up to Taupo meetings wanting to race later bikes in pre 86 ??? is it that now their bike is cosher its no fun anymore :-\
Alls well here thanks :) looking forward to the 4 Hr this weekend so i can ride my 86 KDX.
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How long have you been offering a Pre-91 class?
How well publicised has it been?
Don't know the politics of NZ VMX, but as a general statement:
You can't spend five years hanging shit on an era and the people who are passionate about it, and then expect them to come running like obedient little puppies when you finally, grudgingly offer them a class...
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How long have you been offering a Pre-91 class?
How well publicised has it been?
Don't know the politics of NZ VMX, but as a general statement:
You can't spend five years hanging shit on an era and the people who are passionate about it, and then expect them to come running like obedient little puppies when you finally, grudgingly offer them a class...
First year it's been offered Nathan.
I think there's merit in your statement above,but I think it's just a time thing myself.
Have fun at the four hour Ira ;D
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It will take time Bill, you need to let the NON vintage riders know it's happening, no use preaching to the converted...this is where we fall down....not promoting ourselves to newby's.....maybe a magazine article and some bike shop shows......a few demo's at some modern meets......hey, get Kingy and some KX5/CR500's doing some laps.....I know it's hard work but if we don't do it, no one will....get Lissie and his homo mates in jafa town to get something going....put them on the spot....you know it comes back to the finger pointers and the workers. ;)
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Build it and "they will come"
#8
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It will take time Bill, you need to let the NON vintage riders know it's happening, no use preaching to the converted...this is where we fall down....not promoting ourselves to newby's.....maybe a magazine article and some bike shop shows......a few demo's at some modern meets......hey, get Kingy and some KX5/CR500's doing some laps.....I know it's hard work but if we don't do it, no one will....get Lissie and his homo mates in jafa town to get something going....put them on the spot....you know it comes back to the finger pointers and the workers. ;)
Joan we are holding a round at Ardmore this year Homo ;)
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I'm glad somebody else sees Liz for what (s)he is!
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Yeah Joan there is a auckland round run by us jaffa's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bill get the word out "we are trialing the class this year" no interest,wont bother next year
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Bill get the word out "we are trialing the class this year" no interest,wont bother next year
That's a bad idea, because it shows a lack of commitment to the idea from the organisers.
Essentially, it becomes: "No point in building a bike/getting excited, because its just as likely to fall over next year".
This extends beyond the (hypothetical) statement about entrant numbers - it creates the impression that the slightest thing will see the class canned. People don't commit to stuff that they expect will fail - if the organisers really want to see any class grow, the best thing that they can do is to be supportive of it, especially when it's not at its healthiest.
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Bill get the word out "we are trialing the class this year" no interest,wont bother next year
That's a bad idea, because it shows a lack of commitment to the idea from the organisers.
Essentially, it becomes: "No point in building a bike/getting excited, because its just as likely to fall over next year".
This extends beyond the (hypothetical) statement about entrant numbers - it creates the impression that the slightest thing will see the class canned. People don't commit to stuff that they expect will fail - if the organisers really want to see any class grow, the best thing that they can do is to be supportive of it, especially when it's not at its healthiest.
Nathan you have got to be kidding? You want the organisers to commit to running these races for a number of years yet you don't expect the riders who cried out for it to commit to it at all??
Talk about one sided mate. The organisers have made the leap of faith .. it's now up to the riders to do the same don't you think ::)
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Everyone calm the F##k down,lets see what happens going forward -people.
Ps Rosco no one here likes you !!!
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Everyone calm the F##k down,lets see what happens going forward -people.
I'm calm bro ..no malice in what I said at all but I can see where you might read that into it :) 8)
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Everyone calm the F##k down,lets see what happens going forward -people.
I'm calm bro ..no malice in what I said at all but I can see where you might read that into it :) 8)
All good brother :D
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Firstly this is not a dig or otherwise at pre 90 in Australia where it seems to be working :)
The point is we only put the class in as there was apparently so much demand ::) it was not added begrudgingly i was actually quite looking forward to seeing the later model bikes , i dont want to race it personally as its not an era i want to race .
But since offering the class there is now fork all interest ::)
It makes no odds really as i say we are packing it out by having no bottom age / era limit, but WTF do we listen to these forkers when they get what they ask for they dont support it .
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You will never please everyone.
Call up Pre 91 straight after Pre 86. Give them two minutes, then drop the gate. Guys will soon get sick of 1,2 and 3 bike races and hopefully start badgering their own Era mates to get involved. Leave it entirely up to them. If they want it they have to build it. The club has done its bit.
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I nearly bought a 88' RM early in the year but didn't as all I heard were rumors of pre 91' coming in.
Now that there is a class I wish I had.
BTW I wasn't one of the we want crowd but I will race it if I find a bike.
I too was disapointed at the first round with the lack of entries in pre 91'. But I did bring along a work mate who bought a bike just for the class.
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FFS Bill Give it time !!
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To be honest, I'm undecided on the Pre90/91 era here in NZ. We still have plenty of pre86 bikes available and would be better off promoting what we have already to increase numbers rather than just introducing another era and hope that by doing so will prop up (financially/rider numbers) of VMX.
My thoughts of VMX moving with the times i.e. introducing new eras because the newer bikes are now older and to inccourage new and younger riders seems to only destroy the older eras, be it the track gets to cut up, the racing gets over vigorous for some or just the general feel/scene of a meeting loses some of its 'old time charm', although this seems to be less important as I have witnessed the young and old reliving the race that has just been ridden. Could this be that both just like motorbikes and the racing of them more that any era, vintage or modern??
What I have discovered/witnessed over the years is, that its us as riders who bring most of the newbies to VMX (not the bikes), and as newbies go, most, if not all are just happy racing on something with 2 wheels and a motor regardless of the year of the bike. More often than not I have witnessed younger riders who have had no past affiliation with the older bikes, ending up buying and racing one or more.
Sometimes moving with the times can lose the times we have now and that's the part that I worry about. I know eventually time will march on but do we need to speed the process up, after all isn't 40 the new 30 and 50 the new 40 ??
Pre90/91 maybe here at the moment but it is 'that generation' of riders that will have to keep it going and I wonder if the enthusiasm with that generation will last the distance of time or will VMX be like most things of that era and only be supported when and if the feeling grabs them to take the bike out, but hey 'it's good to know that the era is available to them when they feel like racing' ???
Happy thoughts guys, DJRACING
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How long have you been offering a Pre-91 class?
How well publicised has it been?
Don't know the politics of NZ VMX, but as a general statement:
You can't spend five years hanging shit on an era and the people who are passionate about it, and then expect them to come running like obedient little puppies when you finally, grudgingly offer them a class...
Nathan, here in NZ Pre90/91 has always been on offer. It has never been disallowed/discouraged or for that matter hung shit on. Anyone can run a meeting with what ever classes they want.
There was never a begrudgingly move to Pre91.
Passionate people would have there passions all ready to go at a moments notice I would have thought, but then again passion can be a spur of the moment thing I guess.
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DJ good to see you are back mate it's been a while.
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You know what they say in the electroplating business...
... Chrome wasn't built in a day
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I don't get it?
Why do people seem so passionate about pre 90 yes/no debate?
If it brings some new people, surely it's a good thing?
I was thinking about a thread "why do you hate pre 90" :) :) :)
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You know what they say in the electroplating business...
... Chrome wasn't built in a day
Thats good Geoff ;D ;D ;D
We will see what happens i suppose but im picking there will be fork all at the 3rd rd either as it turns out the big passion was all wind and piss ::)
DJ i dont think that pre 90 or even pre 2000 bikes would fork the track for the older classes anymore than the pre 86 bikes do already :-\
Im not against the introduction of later eras ( i pushed for it ) but the apathy of the people who called for it now its available gives me the shits .
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I don't get it?
Why do people seem so passionate about pre 90 yes/no debate?
If it brings some new people, surely it's a good thing?
I was thinking about a thread "why do you hate pre 90" :) :) :)
Who are you referring too? If me, then I can answer for myself that I don't hate any bikes, or any eras.
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I don't get it?
Why do people seem so passionate about pre 90 yes/no debate?
If it brings some new people, surely it's a good thing?
I was thinking about a thread "why do you hate pre 90" :) :) :)
Who are you referring too? If me, then I can answer for myself that I don't hate any bikes, or any eras.
Nah mate just in general
It also seems real passionate in the "what's the next breaking point" thread
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I don't get it?
Why do people seem so passionate about pre 90 yes/no debate?
If it brings some new people, surely it's a good thing?
I was thinking about a thread "why do you hate pre 90" :) :) :)
Who are you referring too? If me, then I can answer for myself that I don't hate any bikes, or any eras.
You told me you hate harleys and you were not to keen on the 1950s ;D
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Bill you might be right about the track but if their were a lot more pre91 bikes racing I'm sure the track would suffer to the detriment of the older classes but hey, it's motocross !
Paul552, I guess the passion between the old guard losing what they know and started, to the younger guard pushing for what they want, and that's why the debates are passionate. Plus I also think it can be difficult for most of us to explain ourselves on a written forum as most of us aren't writers, hence things can get taken the wrong way and no one can see the others point of view, but pick on small aspects of what they have said.
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You told me you hate harleys and you were not to keen on the 1950s ;D
[/quote]
;D ;D ;D
Com'on Bill a Harley in the 50's and I would've been cool. Just like James Dean 8)
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Paul552, I guess the passion between the old guard losing what they know and started, to the younger guard pushing for what they want, and that's why the debates are passionate. Plus I also think it can be difficult for most of us to explain ourselves on a written forum as most of us aren't writers, hence things can get taken the wrong way and no one can see the others point of view, but pick on small aspects of what they have said.
Yep I think your right.
I never really thought of it like that.(putting words/thoughts on paper)
I never raced as a kid as I had no money!!!
It is my 1st year having a go at 38 on a bike 36 years old and I wish some of the old guard would slow down and give me a chance!!!
I just reckon VMX is the best thing I have done in a long while and would encourage anyone to have a go.
Great fun / forget the polictics !!!!!!!
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Paul552, I guess the passion between the old guard losing what they know and started, to the younger guard pushing for what they want, and that's why the debates are passionate. Plus I also think it can be difficult for most of us to explain ourselves on a written forum as most of us aren't writers, hence things can get taken the wrong way and no one can see the others point of view, but pick on small aspects of what they have said.
Yep I think your right.
I never really thought of it like that.(putting words/thoughts on paper)
I never raced as a kid as I had no money!!!
It is my 1st year having a go at 38 on a bike 36 years old and I wish some of the old guard would slow down and give me a chance!!!
I just reckon VMX is the best thing I have done in a long while and would encourage anyone to have a go.
Great fun / forget the polictics !!!!!!!
Well said paul :) DJ didn't race as a kid either and he started at about the same age as you on a YZ 125E :)
hows that for coincidence .
DJ didn't wait for us to slow down, the bastard just got faster and started winning ;D
Its a great pastime politics aside :)
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Hah
Good taste in bikes!!!!!!!!
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Paul552 there is a secret to racing faster. Go out on the booze the night before the race but make sure your fellow competitors are drinking too. Make sure they drink 3 to your 1 with the odd top shelf thrown in and the next day you'll ride like a champ, or at least your fellow competitors will think so ;D ;D ;D
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DJ you cunning swine!!!!
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Nathan you have got to be kidding? You want the organisers to commit to running these races for a number of years yet you don't expect the riders who cried out for it to commit to it at all??
Talk about one sided mate. The organisers have made the leap of faith .. it's now up to the riders to do the same don't you think ::)
Not what I said. Of course the riders need to support the class, but (as you say) it's a two way street.
The '13 PCMXNs were doomed the instant the organisers got on here and made threats about canning the event due to the numbers of entrants. It would be a shame to see the same mistake repeated.
I mean, if you're in the market for a new bike, are you more or less likely to buy Brand X if they're openly talking about not making new bikes anymore?
Or are you going to buy Brand Y who have shown a solid commitment to the new bike market?
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More doom and gloom. The 2014 Post Classics will be an outstanding success, because their are a bunch of energetic workers who will ensure that. You need to understand the factors in the failure of the past Post Classic Nats before drawing conclusions.
I'm not suggesting the negativity on this forum caused the failures, to to some degree it didnt help either.
Fortunately the team behind 2014 are strong enough to forge ahead regardless.
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Liz -I am OK with that - don't care ;D
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My view on this is a question. If you DID NOT have latter classes ie single shock ( yamaha mono shock aside) at all point blank , would the people who really want to race and be part of a vintage movement ( not just trophy hunters ) still come and race older bikes?
I think that by allowing a large spread of classes that the numbers will thin in each class as there is only a small populaces that wants to race any old bikes inc 91
I spoke to several guys at a mx recently that liked the bikes I had on display with misty eyes to the old days, but wernt interested in racing them as they were into modern vets or were pushing their kids to be the next great thing.
As far as I am concerned anything that looks like a modern bike is not a vintage bike.
What happens in WA where there are no single shocks are the fields small?
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My view on this is a question. If you DID NOT have latter classes ie single shock ( yamaha mono shock aside) at all point blank , would the people who really want to race and be part of a vintage movement ( not just trophy hunters ) still come and race older bikes?
I think that by allowing a large spread of classes that the numbers will thin in each class as there is only a small populaces that wants to race any old bikes inc 91
I spoke to several guys at a mx recently that liked the bikes I had on display with misty eyes to the old days, but wernt interested in racing them as they were into modern vets or were pushing their kids to be the next great thing.
As far as I am concerned anything that looks like a modern bike is not a vintage bike.
What happens in WA where there are no single shocks are the fields small?
I hope this doesnt get taken the wrong way and we can all stay calm and not turn this thread into another Pre 90 versus Pre 75 sh#tfight.
But if you look at the fields of classes in NZ VMX ( Enzed series) clearly the later eras have the bigger numbers.
This excludes the greybeards club in Auckland which has an up to Pre 80 rule and is suffering from continual decline in numbers year upon year.This is fact guys,I know some of the main players in this scene and attend the odd event every year or so.
Therefore moving to what the Buzzard (aka Assasin) has suggested above-cut the existing bike age groups- will alienate a large number of current racers in NZ.
I also think that VMX needs to continue to evolve as time goes by, just like all other forms of "classic motorsport" ie classic road racing,rally etc etc.
None of us are getting any younger and eventually we will will move away from the scene as our bodies deteriorate.
I also look at whats happening in the UK with its massive growth in Evo (pre 90) vmx and see the future of our sport.
I am sure this will get the usual suspects all fired up,which is not the aim of my statement.This is simply one mans opinion.
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Thats all very well but the precious Prima donnas who want these semi modern classes then don't bother to enter ::)
Pre 78 and earlier is my era of choice and ill bet i will still be racing when the plastic brigade have long gone home ;)
I will say again i am not anti later eras just anti talkers non doers >:(
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I am involved in classic rallying and modern rallying. what has happen herein NZ is modern rally classes run pre 92 as a class, classic rally run pre 86 no exceptions and the feilds are good . What I am saying is too many classes in VMX will only thin the fields. If you want pre 91 go to MNZ / MOZ and get it included in MODERN mx meetings which will suit the style of bike and rider that wants to race this class . Dont impose on what is still a classic era pre 86 full stop!
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Thats all very well but the precious Prima donnas who want these semi modern classes then don't bother to enter ::)
Pre 78 and earlier is my era of choice and ill bet i will still be racing when the plastic brigade have long gone home ;)
I will say again i am not anti later eras just anti talkers non doers >:(
Bill,I am afraid that given the age of most participants on Pre 78 bikes,its fact that the "plastic " brigade as you refer to us,will outlast you cloth cap wearing old farts :D
I take your point re talkers and doers which is 100% correct, and understand your frustration (which I share).
But I reckon you need to calm down and give Pre 91 in NZ, time to grow.
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I am involved in classic rallying and modern rallying. what has happen herein NZ is modern rally classes run pre 92 as a class, classic rally run pre 86 no exceptions and the feilds are good . What I am saying is too many classes in VMX will only thin the fields. If you want pre 91 go to MNZ / MOZ and get it included in MODERN mx meetings which will suit the style of bike and rider that wants to race this class . Dont impose on what is still a classic era pre 86 full stop!
John would your opinion above be different if you had brought the 1988 RM 250J and hadnt sold your 1983 RM 250 that you used to regularly race in Pre 86???
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No , Not now, maybe a few years ago but in light of what I have seen happen to vmx I have changed my opinion on what Vintage means. I can still accept pre 86 as they have only front discs and no cartridge forks etc and also 81,82,83 were very developmental years showcasing advancement.
I would still buy your J model just not race it, or I would take it to a modern meetings as I would only be as slow on that as I would on my 2001 KTM 380 SX
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No , Not now, maybe a few years ago but in light of what I have seen happen to vmx I have changed my opinion on what Vintage means. I can still accept pre 86 as they have only front discs and no cartridge forks etc and also 81,82,83 were very developmental years showcasing advancement.
I would still buy your J model just not race it or take it to a modern meeting as I would only be as slow on that AS MY 2001 KTM 380 SX
Fair enough mate,I respect your opinion.
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So when are you going to include pre '96 ? ;D
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Half an hour before Pre 2001 ;D
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Half an hour before Pre 2001 ;D
Coool then My KTM380sx ( of which only 12 came to NZ) would be worth moonbeams ;D
Worth hangin out for I recon , i should only be about 65 years old , oh and hell would have frozen over ;D