OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: bazza on September 12, 2013, 08:37:50 am
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Any one here work in legal office?
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Too many on here is half the problem ;D
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Too many on here is half the problem ;D
"Philadelphia Lawyers" dont count!! ;D
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TM Bill will be able to sort you out when he gets back from pommyland Bazza....I would have thought Liz Taylor would be on a first name basis in jaffaville?...also, the Wallibies will need more than a lawyer to win a game. ;D
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also, the Wallibies will need more than a lawyer to win a game
To borrow a quote from the legendary Batfink when confronted by the evil mad scientist, Hugo A-Go-Go "Your bullets cannot harm me. My wings are like a shield of steel!"
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Mine is a serious question because no one can tell me why MA can have a monopoly!!! and dont give me chestnut about 1920 show grounds accident
Restraint of trade / no monopoly/bill of rights etc superceed that shit
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They've got a monopoly because nobody has the guts to work towards an alternative. Ray Ryan, Colin Metcher, Vern Grayson and myself tried to get an AHRMA style organisation up back in 2000 but we couldn't get enough people willing to support our idea. Like we discussed on the phone Mike, the Sport and Recreation act in NSW....the old Speedways Act, is very restrictive in what can and can't be done to run an event on virgin ground. I really wish it was like it is in NZ but it's not. The act came into play in the late fifties after a series of fatal accidents involving spectators. The act needs a modern tune up but with the insurance industry driven public risk paranoia dictating what councils, governments and sporting bodies do these days, challenging the legislation would be a long, expensive battle with little guarantee of a positive result. On top of the Sport and Rec regs we have local council, EPA and who knows how many other bureaucracies to deal with. You can't look at Aussie problems with a Kiwi perspective unfortunately mate.
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So 98 % of riders dont need to be in MA to do club and vmx riding.You can still run an australian vmx title
Say you have a body called say "Clubmans club",they have insurance for affiliated clubs,you then run the "clubmans club" australian vmx champs.
a letter/email to Minister of (legal shit")?? in the cabinet would sort out rights.
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So 98 % of riders dont need to be in MA to do club and vmx riding.You can still run an australian vmx title
Say you have a body called say "Clubmans club",they have insurance for affiliated clubs,you then run the "clubmans club" australian vmx champs.
The very first VMX Nats at Dargle in '92 which you came over for was run as a "Big Club Day" and the guys who won classes that day are still regarded at ther legitimate Aussie champs even though they're not on the MA listings. Today however, whenever this come up we get a large percentage of racers who indicate they wouldn't support a non MA or even a "big club day" format because the winners wouldn't have official MA status. I know what you're saying and agree with you but for what you propose to work you have to get the racing fraternity into a whole new mindset. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just not sure that's achievable after the failure of our 2000 proposal.
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Australian Sidecarcross Assoc (ASA) have run their own titles for years and do so after winning a case against MA on the grounds of "restriction of trade"
Hence they don't give a fig about coming to Qld to win a MQ sanctioned "title"
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MA don't have a monopoly.
http://australianautosportalliance.com/#
It's our own conservatism that keeps us huddled under the MA umbrella. We bitch and moan anout MA, but we don't even take a proper look at the alternative...
AASA have taken big bites out of the 4-wheeled motorsport insurance provider market. It took a while for people to overcome their fear of the unknown (despite the appalling way CAMS treated its members - much worse than MA treats us), but two years ago, half of the circuit racing permits in NSW were not CAMS permits. Rallying would be over half non-CAMS now.
All the old stuff about "black" events is long dead.
It suits MA for everyone to persist with the idea of sanctions against riders, but they would never dream of trying the old tricks.
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I think this forum is great, but some of you guys must be kidding yourselves, do you really think there is enough riders here to form any real judgment regarding MA and how we need to break away, for what gain, I think all your doing is under-minding the sport as we know it, for your own jollies.
we don't need a lawyer, we need brain surgeons for you lot.
Cheers Worms
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It would be really good if someone from MA could explain to me just exactly what I get for my (now) $55 one day licence fee >:(. The $50 ride fee I can understand as I can see (and actually ride on) what I am paying for.
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Don't worry guys, MA and the associated states are shitting themselves....or they should be.
Here in Qld, we have had a gig going on with the country school P&Cs putting on rides out back a bit. Usually 200ks away or more.
These rides are 1 and 2 dayers around some farm paddocks....sort of enduro meets hare and hound. No racing (sic) and just have a blast with your mates. Follow the arrows, watch out for cautions etc...etc... except sometimes they get over 1500 riders of all ages, sizes, shapes, and ditto for the bikes BTW.
Now, MQ would get an event fee plus lots of one-day licences...I mean lots!! The club would make some dollars and pass it on to the P&C and the P&C would also sell a zillion burgers and drinks....ahhh, good times for all.
A good money spinner eh???
'Cept MQ got greedy and the P&Cs got jack of that and looked for an ulternative....and found one!! So no more easy bucks for MQ/MA and they P&Cs are making better money, charging less.
Until...a local polly complains that the landowner is now using his land for ill gotten gains and the P&C should declare all these funds and be taken off the local school assistance list etc...etc....
And so the world turns...FFS!!!
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And who do you think dobbed them in.
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And who do you think dobbed them in
???? I give in...who?
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MA don’t have a monopoly but they are the recognized governing body that is affiliated with the FIM
Anyone can run their own races and call it what they like but all MA titles are recognized officially.
The US used to run their own world championship 4 stroke class in the 80’s but no one took it seriously as a world championship, not outside the US anyway.
The US has lots of organizations running their own meetings though and they are starting to appear here now with organizations like ASA and AASA.
Most club days don’t have to be with MA but they are convenient for insurance and liability. And while many bitch about the funds here in Victoria at least MV have bought and established Broadford and recently helped to purchase Barrabool. Barrabool is going through some grief with locals with noise but at least MV put in some funds to try and save it.
I read a Qld club site some time back that is running meetings without MA
The clubs web page bagged out MA quite a bit but nowhere could I find out if they run their meetings with any insurance cover.
If these clubs are finding other cover then why do they keep it a secret?
I’ve worked for small and large firms and it is quite noticeable how much more complicated things are in larger firms.
Any new organization will seem more efficient when they are starting off but as they grow in size the administration will become more demanding which will require more labour to keep control of which will cause prices to rise
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Well put GMC. I think the Qld clubs running without MA/MQ are in fact run through AASA.
Good question though, and carried from another thread...if ACU/MA titles are so important, why don't they keep the records up to date and in plain view??
I'm with you Firko, I give up too.
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MA don’t have a monopoly but they are the recognized governing body that is affiliated with the FIM
Anyone can run their own races and call it what they like but all MA titles are recognized officially.
If an MA National title has any more value over an AASA National title, that's ONLY due to the perception of the punters. There are CAMS-recognised State championships that have rounds run under a AASA permit.
FIM affiliation is irrelevant for non-international competition. It's waved around as a big deal, but it doesn't actually mean anything at all for your typical club day.
All of that said: I don't really get the depth of MA hate. I know they're not perfect, but I've come from the world if CAMS, who are a genuinely horrible organisation, wracked with petty politics, back-stabbing, inefficiencies, a complete lack of focus on competitor's interests, and simple thick-headedness.
Compared to them, MA look like a bunch of saints and AASA & AMSAG are essential alternatives. The rise of AASA and validation of AMSAG has forced CAMS to lift its game a whole lot.
(Sorry for continual reference to CAMS - just that all of the arguments are repeats of what was said five years ago in relation to AASA vs CAMS, and ten years ago about AMSAG vs CAMS).
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If an MA National title has any more value over an AASA National title, that's ONLY due to the perception of the punters. There are CAMS-recognised State championships that have rounds run under a AASA permit.
Can any old swimming club run an Australian championship that will be recognized world wide?
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Are any Aussie VMX champions recognised worldwide anyhow?
If any old club runs an event (or series of events) as a national title, and are recognised by the competitors as a national title, then that's all that really matters.
If its just Nathan and Davey racing each other around Barabool, then it will never be considered a valid national title, regardless of who issued the permit.
But if there's 250 riders from around the country, all busting their balls on a track in GMC's backyard, then that will be accepted as a valid national title, regardless of who issued the permit.
Bet none of us could name the National Croquet Champion, or the National 50cc pitbike champion - the titles only have relevance to the participants - sanctioning bodies are irrelevant.
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Bet none of us could name the National Croquet Champion, or the National 50cc pitbike champion - the titles only have relevance to the participants - sanctioning bodies are irrelevant.
shit thats scarey nathan,have to agree
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the titles only have relevance to the participants - sanctioning bodies are irrelevant.
I know this is pretty scary but......I agree with Nathan (or he agrees with me, both scary), MA sanction on a title is pretty irrelevant considering the only people who really give a shit are the riders peer group, hence my continuing to cite the 92 Dargle Nats and its West Wyalong 'big club day' dirt track equivalent as being broadly accepted by the classic community as legit Aussie Championships.
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Well we all like to bag the governing bodies (happens in all sports) sometimes justified sometimes not.
When the Canberra Nats fell over and no other viable clubs put their hand up ( with good and valid reasons), Motorcycling Queensland stepped up and is organising and underwriting the event with help from volunteer enthusiasts. We hope this will be a successfull partnership between the governing body and the enthusiasts, and that will largely depend on the wider VMX community supporting it.
WAVMX is showing again that their support for the VMX movement is huge. Seventeen entries and counting, $800 in personal sponsorships, and heaps of encouragement.
MQ in association with The Scenic Rim councils have secured Queensland Moto Park for all riders at a time where dirt riding areas are increasingly scarce.
MQ also lease and pay for the Biddadaba property which is used by Queensland Vintage Motocross Club tor events on a regular basis.
I am not a PR agent for MQ, just a licensed rider, but I think some balance is needed in these discussions
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Kiwi vmx paddock= Bottle of rum to hire may be little cash
Auz vmx ???? $ to much, there in lies some of the problem. Our club 6 meetings this season costs about 1K for land and Insurance for the season.
biggest expence about $600 a meeting for ambulance
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Mike I thought a good Westie like you would have plenty of legal contacts? ;)
Mate after spending eight years in NSW all I can say is thank fark I live in NZ and race VMX - no disrespect to the NSW clubs but more the bull crap they have to endure to put on events.
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Suzuki59 my uncle capone,luigi, and seprano look after me,not to mention the judges in klub Kevlars pockets.
West side Bro
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Suzuki59 my uncle capone,luigi, and seprano look after me,not to mention the judges in klub Kevlars pockets.
West side Bro
Outrageous fortune cuz?