OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Suzuki => Topic started by: oldfart on March 14, 2013, 10:26:45 pm
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Why I choose this frame is simple..... It was free C/o Doc and it also has narrow rails which suits most Rm tanks
If it turns to shit, all I loose is a few bucks in tubing and a shit load of time..... which is free.
So here we go......
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/P30208173_zps1259fc4c.jpg)
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Ok shape of seat determines top rail design .....19mm tube fits my 3/4 pipe benders so it's a no brainer this is the size pipe I'm using
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/P30208193_zpsd2c243b9.jpg)
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One week later... I have the basic concept of were the shock's should be at also allowing for frame covers. Top rails have been raised 30mm from Std.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/002-9_zpseec403d0.jpg)
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Looking good
Another HL beater in the making
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Stewy
You're a magician with the bender and welder, you're wasting your time in the plumbing trade. Many engineering workshops would kill for someone with your skills.
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Working on the floor of an eng shop doesnt pay $800 plus per day like plumbing...
:-)
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Looking good
Another HL beater in the making
HL beater eh, have you ever considered enclosed body work, heres an early Suzuki factory bike ;D
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k9/ln581/manana.jpg)
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Stewy....Great job so far, it's well designed and neatly done. I have one question for ya though..........On the bottom support tube of the rear seat subframe, why didn't you take it all the way through to the frame downtube rather than ending shy of the downtube and mounting it with the triangulated gusset tubes? I'm no structural engineer but I'd have thought that butting it right up to the downtube as well as the two gussets would make for a stronger mounting point.........Just thinking out aloud mate. ;)
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Hey nice work ;) will be watching this till the end, good luck and happy spanners :)
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Thanks guys it's a fill in job as I bore easily in the arvo's as My wife and 2 daughters are off dancing most nights and there is SFA on the idiot box.
Mark , to answer you question there are 2 answers.
1 LHs rail sits about 13mm proud and RHs about 8mm.
2 If I was to continue it thru to the main rail as suggested ( of which I tried )
I saw no gain as most of the load is on the top and bottom trianlge of
which there will be gussets @ main down tube while the 3 way section will
be tied together with a shock mount bracket.
I'm open to suggestions as It's only tacked in place at this stage
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Stu are you bored waiting for Duck season?
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Thanks guys it's a fill in job as I bore easily in the arvo's as My wife and 2 daughters are off dancing most nights and there is SFA on the idiot box.
Mark , to answer you question there are 2 answers.
1 LHs rail sits about 13mm proud and RHs about 8mm.
2 If I was to continue it thru to the main rail as suggested ( of which I tried )
I saw no gain as most of the load is on the top and bottom trianlge of
which there will be gussets @ main down tube while the 3 way section will
be tied together with a shock mount bracket.
I'm open to suggestions as It's only tacked in place at this stage
copy RM250b,c ;)
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Bazza , duck hunting is done and dusted for another year ;)
Update .... shock mounts fabricated added along with front side cover tab, seat fixing is tacked in place at this stage until I figure out what tank to use.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/001-9_zps5aef6559.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/001-9_zps5aef6559.jpg.html)
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Hope it was a good season Stu
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DR500 is a nice shaped tank and can be had in alloy if you are lucky
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I have ... DR 500 and 400 tanks in both steel and alloy,( they look too bulky ) Plus I have Rm 125 B - Tm 125 - Rm 125 S and Rm 125 T to choose from.
At this stage I'm leaning towards a Rm 125 T.
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TM / RMS Long Slim similar to YZ C
Most of all it looks good on the SP / DR
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TM / RMS Long Slim similar to YZ C
Most of all it looks good on the SP / DR
;) yep gotta be alloy
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RH/RN for that works look
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Son... so you have a spare laying around to donate to a worthy cause ;D
Had a play this arvo ....Rm 125 T looks quite trick but the rear hold down tab sits too high and would need to rework the rails .... that's out of the question.
Rm 125 B fit straight in with no mods .... for me I need something different ( DRM has a RM 125 tank )
So it's plan B ...Tm 100/125 tank with a bit cut and tucking to pull it back 20mm to allow fork tubes clearance.
While I'm at it I need a seat base with brackets Rm - Pe part number 40310-81065 stamped on underside
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Frosty came good with a seat which allowed me to progress forward ..... today I cut the top rail out and dropped it by 10mm which allows the tank to clear the forks on full lock and also it's on the same line as the seat. ( string line = centres and height )
Also adjusted the rake to 30 degrees ( see heat mark on down tube ) as the Sp was at 32.5 degrees ( level shows 60 do your maths ) heated up rear intersecting rails and bent them in 8mm each side .... this allows me now to fit any combination of tanks being RM to Tm 125.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/001_zpscdb15de4.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/001_zpscdb15de4.jpg.html)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/002_zpsa4f1a57a.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/002_zpsa4f1a57a.jpg.html)
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Frosty came good with a seat which allowed me to progress forward ..... today I cut the top rail out and dropped it by 10mm which allows the tank to clear the forks on full lock and also it's on the same line as the seat. ( string line = centres and height )
Also adjusted the rake to 30 degrees ( see heat mark on down tube ) as the Sp was at 32.5 degrees ( level shows 60 do your maths ) heated up rear intersecting rails and bent them in 8mm each side .... this allows me now to fit any combination of tanks being RM to Tm 125.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/001_zpscdb15de4.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/001_zpscdb15de4.jpg.html)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/002_zpsa4f1a57a.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/002_zpsa4f1a57a.jpg.html)
Nice work stew , I had a DR500 a while back the RM 125c tank looked ok on it, but the TM125 tank would look better but not alloy,
I ended up with a YZ125 C tank on it ???Suzuki HL500 looked good but 8)
On my rake cuts I have done :o I changed the DR500 rake to 27 deg I found it a lot better than standard on corner speed .
wheel base was 1480mm within a inch of modern bikes specs.
The modern bikes are 27 deg. my two bobs worth.
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How is this progressing??
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Pulled my finger out and have fabricated an alloy box which allowed me to move forward again ....
All mounting brackets are in place . airbox x 4, rear guard x 4, exhaust @ end of seat rail LHS X 1 plus one on rear engine mount cross bar,
side covers x 4, chain rollers upper and lower, seat @ rear of rails , tank rear mount and also front mounts
CDI @ front of steering stem. and a steering stop below lower bearing.
Currently grafting a Pe 250 swing in place as I'm wanting to run a cush drive rear hub Dr 400 as it's not so hard on the gear box .
Tank is almost complete as I had to reshape the tunnel again ::) due to changing steering rake to 30 degrees
Will show a mock up in coming weeks when tank is complete ...... stay tuned
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/003_zpscdbdd613.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/003_zpscdbdd613.jpg.html)
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(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/001_zpsd2541735.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/001_zpsd2541735.jpg.html)
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looks great wish i had your skills
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looking good and the cush drive is a great idea, bloody well done ;) cant wait to see it finished
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Stew, I fitted a DR500 cush drive rear to my 400C years ago and never looked back. Benefits far outweigh a little extra weight. The SP is looking
good bloody great! love your work ;)
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Good work Stewie.......You're an inspiration to shed wranglers everywhere. I look forward to seeing the finished product.
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Thanks guys .... It's only a fill job in when I get bored as explained earlier on. I hope to have it ready for CD 10.
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Hi Guys,
Would someone be willing to comment on the issue I have with my 1980 DR400 please. The bike I own kickstarts easily enough but once running has an intermittent faulty, that I believe to be electrical, which causes is to run at approximately 50% power. I have been unable to rectify this with all manor of tinkering so managed to pick up another 1980 DR400 as a donor bike. Ive swapped the entire electrical system that is Magneto, CDI and coil from the donor bike to my rebuilt one but now the bike wont kickstart. It does backfire through the carby and give me a painful kick back after about 10-15 kicks. I have managed to start this bike, with the donor bikes electrics, by pushing it an when it did run there is no evidence of the lack of power i mention earlier. I had intended to buy a new spark plug for the bike and maybe try a hotter one than the NGK D7EA im currently running. Can anyone suggest any alternative strategies for me to attempt to get this bike to kickstart with out breaking my lower leg or a small fire.
Alex Hunger
Christchurch
NZ
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when you say you swapped the entire elec system over,did that include the plug caps?, :P
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Mick is right,
Old plug caps fail as often as old plugs
Stay on the 7 heat range go to the B7EV plug
Clean the carb
Fresh Fuel
Prime the engine kicking with the decompressor
Then decompress correctly
They should start as easy as a 200!
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your valid comments and yes ive tried a new spark plug cap but this has not rectified my issue. Further to my previous rant i have now tried every combination of bike A parts and bike B parts with much the same results....goes sometimes and the next day or so later it wont....to add injury to this i got 6 stitches in my pinky after stabbing it with a knife trying to strip off cable sheath in an effort to locate a short circuit. I now believe there could be three reasons my bikes wont go 1. both CDI units are crook 2. there is a bad connection or short in the wiring or 3. the decomp lever is not allowing the valve to return correctly. To cut a long story short i think im screwed unless someone has a brainstorming idea. Sure you all have had similar experiences so will understand the frustration. As a last gasp does anyone know a helpful soul in Christchurch NZ that would have one of these old bikes and may be willing to help me.
Cheers ALex
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Have you had your stator coils checked by a ohms meter ... this would be my first check.
STARTING PROCEDURE ... kick over 3 times no throttle with decomp, if no decomp take it thru full stroke x 3
Bring piston up to TDC on comp stroke and give it a good kick with no throttle and
choke on, let it warm up a bit or it will coff and die on you.
Have you got the valve timing right ????? if no check and set - take off mag cover you will see a witness mark ( V) on the casing just below mounting bolt front upper and marks on fly wheel ( T ) this is TDC .... cam line should be inline with top of case pointing to back of motor.
Edit ... this will also see if cam chain has reached it's limits.
( exhaust and inlet ) Valves should both be closed and not rocking .
To set valve clearance undo the back nut and turn the lead screw slowly until it bottoms out ( SFA resistance ) = zero play ... now back it off 1/4 of a turn and tighten up the back nut ....... got all that ;)
Spark .... you should get a good spark by kicking it over by hand that will throw about 4mm from the coil wire ( cap removed )
Check just above engine number were wire's pass thru casing that they are not cracked ( known to )
Are the pick up sensors faulty ( just above top stator )
Have you got a good earth @ coil mount.
Alex these OLD girls are bullet proof, and once sorted they can give you many years of Fun
It's a matter of going thru all the above one by one not in multiples.
Cheers Stewart
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ive found sometimes to take the whole system off the bike and send it to someone that repairs stators/cdi boxes and they'll put it on their test bench to find the faults, the other is have good known working system and change 1 part at a time till it comes good again then replace that part. all big dollars but that's the bike trade for you
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another thing is see theres not too much air gap on the pick up/pulser coils
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Hi there,
Thanks for the good information. Ive got a ohm meter off my workmate today so will begin testing each of the parts I have and compare the results against each other and the factory specs I have from a page out of the manual. Will check timing through the method suggested and hope to be in better spirits by the end of the week.
Cheers!!
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disconnect the kill switch in case it has a short somewhere
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Update ... Decided to use a Tm 125 tank which had a bit rust on tunnel upper and 2 deep dents.
Tank upper and lower sections removed by using a dremal mini grinder ( used 6 x 25mm wheels ) as you can see I have left the rolled seam in place as it will make it easier to weld back up.
Rear has been made wider each side as this will give me 10 mm clearance @ rear frame rails.
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/20140116_162034_zps0f47fe03.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/20140116_162034_zps0f47fe03.jpg.html)
New tunnel made out of 1mm thick M/ steel flat sheet and put thru a sheet metal rollers .... roughly marked out and cut to shape.
You can achieve the same by bending over a piece of pipe in a vice, apply even pressure on both sides ;)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/20140116_162549_zpsb3fc5927.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/20140116_162549_zpsb3fc5927.jpg.html)
Trial fit prior to massaging rear section
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/20140116_163839_zps29e59342.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/20140116_163839_zps29e59342.jpg.html)
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In a tradesman like manner !!!!
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Stewy, you get the Boilermaker of the Month, Golden Dolly Award. Nice work my friend.
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Nice work Stewy. I did a similar job to a 76 Honda XL350 last year and I can honestly say that while it takes a bit of time to work out what parts to use and how to make it all work together, the results are fantastic and well worth the effort and time spent bending, rebending, welding, cutting, rewelding. Eventually it all comes together. I didn't have to make a tank though. I would like an alloy RC replica tank to replace the plastic one on the bike....one day. Just as a thought, the rake on my Honda is now 29 degrees and the bike turns really well with no signs of instability at speed, so yours being 30 should be just as good.
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Stewy, you get the Boilermaker of the Month, Golden Dolly Award. Nice work my friend.
now now firko....
there was no sign of a 5pound hammer bein used ????????
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Thanks for the kind words of encouragement ..... If I have time over the weekend I may dress the rear into shape.
Had a couple of hours to spare today ( Sunday) so here is the out come ...... plenty of flame control a short piece of 65mm M/steel pipe used as a former and piece of hardwood made into a bossing stick (dresser ) = to move metal
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/004_zps634395f9.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/004_zps634395f9.jpg.html)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/0032_zpsb5352a5c.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/0032_zpsb5352a5c.jpg.html)
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God hope the thing starts after all this pissing around stewy :o
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We will sort this out on the start line "Sunny Jim"
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I know it's not an SP Stewy, or even a Suzuki, but I thought I might give you some more inspiration to get another Four Stroke roosta onto the track... Here's my XL420 that I built early last year.
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t642/markhills1/XL420/IMG_02831_zps5768ec65.jpg)
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t642/markhills1/XL420/IMG_02761_zps6777985c.jpg)
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t642/markhills1/XL420/IMG_02751_zps59103d3e.jpg)
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What a great bit of kit TBM 8) you have done a fantastic job ;)
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Rear tank tunnel now complete ....
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Update ... ran with the Tm tank Idea and flowed colours thru. Pe 250-400 swing arm now fitted to allow for Dr 400 cush drive, it was a pain in R's to fit up and make it work as the SP is a lot narrower at Pivot point and has a Odd ball shaft , In the end patience paved the way forward and now its a roller
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/20140824_152135_zps9230ea68.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/20140824_152135_zps9230ea68.jpg.html)
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sweet as Stew 8)
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VERY nice!
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Lookin very nice Stew. I like the TM tank too.
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Stew pleased you went with the TM tank
This bike should challenge Pete's RD as the build of the year
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Looking good. ;D
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very schmick ;)
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Looks great.
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No way Pete's way quicker at assembling projects than me Son ;)
I'm Yet to sort out a Rod combination to suit crank, as the pickings are very slim.
DR 400 are long gone ::) the XR 400 is too short and Xl 5OO is waaay toooo long.
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Stewy
Top of the class my friend, very nice indeed.
What is your next move re a con-rod, has anyone on the forum been able to offer workable suggestions? Do you have a second or third option with choice of power plant?
Pete
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Another great job Stew.
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Almost a shame to put a 4T in that roller
very nice work stew, very nice indeed.
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Almost a shame to put a 4T in that roller
very nice work stew, very nice indeed.
I'm confident that Stews 4T will be one of the best in OZ
It (a stroked SP/DR 400) will be one of the easiest to ride fast, better handling pre 80 twin shocks,
And more importantly good looking !!!
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That does look great Stu 8)the TM tank and colour scheme works a treat .
Will it run pre 75 or pre 78 ;D
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It has to be post 78
The tank is the only component pre 78
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Bill .. it started life as a SP 400 1980 twin shock frame, so I will race it in Evo open or 4 stroke.
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stew you racing anything pre 75?
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Yes a Suzuki Tm 250 and currently working on Ts 250 1969 for pre 70 :)
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Yes a Suzuki Tm 250 and currently working on Ts 250 1969 for pre 70 :)
looking fwd to lining up next to you then
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Nice looking bike, my bike should be that far in a week or two.
I was planning on putting a 34mm flat slide carburetor on my SP400 engine, will this work? According to the repair manual I got, there is a 36mm carburetor on the bike, here in the forum a lot of people say the bike has a 33mm carburetor normally?
There is no big tuning done to my engine it will have an open exhaust, 3 angel valve job and the rest is stock. What size carburetor would be the best?
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STD round slide will work fine with proper jetting. There is restricted clearance for cable route due to top rail keep that in mind also ;)
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PM sent Stewy.
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Air box finished and installed .... currently working on a Muffler as it is load as. Chinese pit bike was the right shape being Oval and its length was spot on 250mm, but was a little on the small side ( 38mm inlet ) as I require a 44mm.
Stay tune for finished item posted next week ;)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/20150516_132426_zpszmdkbjfc.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/20150516_132426_zpszmdkbjfc.jpg.html)
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will it be ready for CD?
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Sure will
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Nice airbox work Stew. Did you do all the fabrication and welding?
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All finished and ready for CD11 ... 2 years 4 months latter ;D
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/001_zpsjkcoc8lg.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/001_zpsjkcoc8lg.jpg.html)
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(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i180/mutchoo/002_zpstexiubmh.jpg) (http://s72.photobucket.com/user/mutchoo/media/002_zpstexiubmh.jpg.html)
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Thats awesome Stewart, I hope it gives you many years of grinning :D
Its been very enjoyable just watching it come together.
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Excellent work.
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Are you going to get it dirty Stew?
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Well done stew , did the xl500 rod I sent up work in the long run ? Maybe seeing it as a 511 8)
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VERY nice! ;D
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Mick ... no it was a tad too long.
Pokey .... need get a few laps in to sort out jetting etc and get the feel of it ;)
I would like to personally thank PMC57 ( Pete ) and Sleepy ( George ) for there input and guidance with the engine work. THANK YOU
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See you at the QLD titles, wonderful people they actually have a 4 stroke class, see you at the gate stew ;)
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Nice work Stu, where is muffler??
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That's a credit to you Stew. Not going to ask what $ it cost as your mrs may see it. :-\
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Good effort Stew , looks great mate 8)
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Impressive looking machine Oldfart. Can see a lot of hours spent on the drawing board and then in the garage there.
Really liking the respect you paid to the tank and graphic, a nice touch that softens the brutal dimensions of that beast!
J
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Looks great Stew. Time to get the new bike dirty ;D
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What wheelbase did it end up at, looks a bit short. Should be good for wheelies :) :)
Look good though but when your not looking I will steel the tank to make my little old TM125 look a bit better.
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What carb did you use?
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Nice work that's a credit to you stew.
Where did you get your tm 125 tank stickers from?
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You mentioned recently on another topic that you have gearbox problems.
Vic Eastwood campaigned a Hagon framed stroked Suzuki and found the gearboxes to be extremely fragile.White Bros only went to 420 on their DR400 due to the poor durability of the 370 when tuned.
I thought the 400 box was beefed up, however early 400 engines used 370 cases which were known to break on kick back. The engines can jump out of second or third[I think it's third] and the best way to fix this is simply to change the worn dogs for a new part. An english road racer posted that. He also said the inlet valve was a couple of mm too small for peak power and that whilst he went to a bigger valve he also filled in part of the inlet port as it was too big . He dynoed his stroked motor at 52 bhp.
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Yep small gear dogs on third gear , dr500 , dr400 are the same part numbers , I had a dr500 and broke the third gear dog , after I put a new one in it because it was broke when I got it .
I also got a spare bottom end for parts and third gear was broke in that to .
So it's a common prob .
The tt500 gear dogs are twice the size and I have had these bikes for 25 years and never had gear box woes .
Even the Xl500 , xr500 have better gear dog sizes than the sp , dr suzukis
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cloggy , the trans may not be up to the extra Hp, and yes it seems to tear the dogs off 3rd gear of which I have experienced. Since then I have done a few mods to allow for extra oil flow
thru the driven shaft . There is an idler gear that has a bronze bush ... attention needs to be taken here that it is has not worn badly thru lack of lubrication. The gear will not run true and only pick up on one of the 4 dogs when under power. Plus you need to make sure the idler bearing has a seal on trans side and note you have a cavity on the sprocket shaft at seals to allow for oil to pass up shaft.
To me if there is a lack of oil the gears they will wear rapidly - get side movement - and not mesh as one.
Strange as it may be I have the same motor same trans DR 400 that is just under 500cc and I have flogged the hell out it for 6 years without one issue with the trans.
Main difference is the DR was built as a rever with revs its rs off. Were as the 511 has a lot more torque.
I will report back after I have been for a ride. fingers crossed I have it sorted
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mick .. its a real bad design on Suzuki behalf, as a good 75% of the dogs are on a shoulder between the gear and selector groove about 6mm wide.