OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: maxi81 on March 10, 2013, 02:00:19 pm

Title: 2 stroke oil
Post by: maxi81 on March 10, 2013, 02:00:19 pm
What type of 2 stroke oil are you guys running in your bikes. I bought some motul 800 but have read that people seem to foul alot of plugs. Anyone else experienced this?
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: albrid-3 on March 10, 2013, 02:34:38 pm
Motul 800 Factory Line ester 2T Excellent oil, 25-30 to 1, always keep your rings lubricated
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: firko on March 10, 2013, 03:01:23 pm
Same....Motul 800 @ 25-1.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: bazza on March 10, 2013, 03:25:03 pm
use Motel 800 on vmx bikes and modern 2 stroke because no foul plugs and clean rings and bores.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Davey Crocket on March 10, 2013, 03:36:46 pm
MAXIMA 927 Caster....you can go all the way down to 20/1 ratio.....synthetic esters....degummed caster oil....and it has that caster smell none of the others have......mmmmmm....I have just put the 3rd set of rings and piston in my RM125A and there is no wear, piston , head and ports clean as a whistle....it gets this every season....17 plus meetings a year.....and they support VMX....btw....Maxima is the biggest selling motorcycle oil in the USA......the Go-Kart boys love it too.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: tony27 on March 10, 2013, 03:52:44 pm
Motorex cross power 2T at 40:1 in the CZ & YZ465,  80:1 in my sherco trials bike
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Stevo17 on March 10, 2013, 03:54:32 pm
I was using Motul 800, then Bel-Ray H1R, now I just use Castrol TTS at 32:1. 
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: gdr on March 10, 2013, 03:57:40 pm
Maxima 927 Caster if you on the pipe ,otherwise Motul 800.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: oldyzman on March 10, 2013, 05:05:06 pm
I was using motorex speedmix then tried repsol full synthetic but i have gone full circle back to motul 800 at 33 to 1. I buy it 4 lt at a time, I dont recall ever fouling a plug on any. But my mate putted around on my modern ktm and fouled the plug.  More to do with riding and carb mixture i reckon

Brett
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Mike52 on March 10, 2013, 05:17:48 pm
Was watching my new " Bad Rock " dvd and the pensoil guy hands a rider 2 cans of oil and says "32/1 just like last time".
Dvd is about a race in 1972 .
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: allan hughes on March 10, 2013, 08:23:10 pm
valvoline 2 stoke racing oil
30mls/litre vmx
35mls/litre flat track
buy it from supercheap
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: David Lahey on March 10, 2013, 09:31:33 pm
Penrite Hi-Per (semi-synthetic) 40:1 (currently in air cooled trials bikes). Before that Castrol TTS (IT250 and WR200). Before that Castrol Super TT (in a multitude of bikes), before that Shell X100M (Castor oil)(IT175), before that Castrol Super Two stroke. Only time I ever fouled a plug was when going from Super to Unleaded in the 1980s and shards of carbon came loose and bridged the gap on a couple of bikes
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: oz555ktm on March 10, 2013, 09:32:11 pm
 Castrol  supper tts  in the gold bottle now owen by BP..

      25 to 1 250 and 495

      16 to 1  in the ktm 125 ..


               Oil is chep rod and piston for ktm are very hard to get

    
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Canam370 on March 10, 2013, 09:52:11 pm
Motul 800 at 35:1 in everything - trials to MX.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Zakk on March 10, 2013, 09:53:50 pm
Shell vsx 2 semi-synthetic oil  40-1
i've never had any problems using this oil even when i was road racing a 250cc Production bike in the mid 1990's. the only time's i've had plug issues that weren't caused by the wrong jetting are from using the wrong heat range for the conditions, or more recently a string of dud B8ES's  ::)
 
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: JohnnyO on March 10, 2013, 09:57:19 pm
Motil 800 at 40:1, you guys running it at 25:1 must have a lot of oily residue dripping out your exhaust pipe.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: oldskool on March 10, 2013, 10:19:00 pm
Motul 800 32:1 only foul plugs if I putt around slow.My 89 rmx 250 hasn't even had a set of rings replaced I've had it nearly 2 years previous owner had it 5 years still has plenty compression and not a set of rings or piston in that time ;D.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Bamford#69 on March 10, 2013, 10:42:56 pm
Hi
74 Honda CR125 , Castrol TT motorcycle Two stroke oil  at 20 to 1
never foul up a plug yet , on really fast track , long time on the throttle, 16 to 1
cheers
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Rookie#1 on March 10, 2013, 10:49:32 pm
FWIW for the first 500k of my modern Husaberg 2t's life i ran TTS @ 32-1 and it ran beautifully, crisp and clean. Last time i went out i was out of TTS and used the remains of a Motul 800 bottle i had in shed, mixed at appx 40-1. For the first time ever the bike fouled a plug!!! It also felt a little down on power and wasn't as sharp in response as i'd come to know. I will now stick to TTS at 32-1 in everything as i had done for quite a while anyway. IT200L, YZ125E, IT250K, KDX200B, PE175T, 2012 Husaberg TE250 and whatever finds its way in and out of the shed in between, one oil, one ratio (32-1) ZERO PROBLEMS!!!!  ;) ;D
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: oldyzman on March 11, 2013, 07:42:22 am
Very interesting what works for some, i would not use TTS in my whipper snipper, something about it being hydroscopic. I do know people who love it.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Stevo17 on March 11, 2013, 08:07:48 am
Castrol TTS at 32:1 in everything.  At $75 for 4 litres it is good value also (even cheaper when SuperCheap have their 20% off sale).
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: bigk on March 11, 2013, 08:15:11 am
That's interesting Rookie considering 'Berg/KTM 2T's are designed to run @ 60:1. I use Motul 800 in my Berg TE250 @60:1 and in my VMX'ers @40:1 without any issues whatsoever. A mate has just become the Oz importer for GRO (popular in Europe), so I'm about to give it a go. I too am not a fan of TTS. I had a customer many years ago who ran his Sea Doo XP (130hp) on cooking oil from the supermarket, never had an issue. He's a braver man than me in that respect!
On a different note with your Berg Rookie, I found the engine wasn't as strong as the Husky WR250 so I've done some playing: SX head, Suzuki NEDW needle on the third clip, 40 pilot, 165 main, red (soft) power valve spring with the dolly wound out flush to the housing. Electric smooth , pulls like a train, lugs beautifully & still has the berries when you want them.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: VMX Andrew on March 11, 2013, 08:27:18 am
Castrol TTS at 25:1 in the CZ everything else at 32:1.
Buy the 4 litre container at supercheap auto when they have the 20% off deals
and never buy the 1 litre bottle cause its only half the price of the 4 litre.
And i always mix it in with the 98 octane fuel. 
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: 80-85 husky on March 11, 2013, 11:17:58 am
Motorex at 100 : 1 or 80:1 ( depending how brave im feeling). Both the KTM 300 and the Husky wr 400 run on it well. so does the whipper snipper, blower vac, chainsaw and the 4 stroke mower!

yes, smoke comes out but little or no splooge which is a bonus

the 300 is an 010 and just had its first top end and looked fine. Powervalve was clean with very little gum, piston had a couple of little marks and the bore was fine.

its important to ensure you have full synthetics at this ratio as the base from which the oil is made is much heavier than the cheaper oils and hence can still provide the lubrication required. you get a much cooler charge as per firing as there is more fuel than oil. at 16 : 1 there is a lot of oil in the charge potentially allowing it to run hotter.

For rare parts engines such as older ktms etc, this is not reccomended. flood it with oil as best you can...

i twigged on to this when a few mates came back from a KTM dealers ride in WA and said Leisky was using it for all the two strokes. 4 days of flat out desert riding was a good test.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Tim754 on March 11, 2013, 12:17:55 pm
Problem with two stroke oil/fuel ratios?   Look in your owners handbook.....Solved

Problem with two stroke oil/fuel ratios?   Read the label on the oils packaging ...Solved

Problem with two stroke oil/fuel ratios?   Buy a two stroke with working oil injection*....Solved

Problem with two stroke oil/fuel ratios?   Buy a four stroke ....Solved.

* Pre75/78 TM  Suzukis ..Why on earth do drongos always seem to want to pull off the impressive fitted oil feeding system????? and go back to asking the crude how much petrol/oil % questions  bullshit.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: whitey 43 on March 11, 2013, 02:13:00 pm
Would I be out on my own if I mentioned Silkolene Comp2 Plus?
U can get it at most Supercheap Autos & I swear by it...Ran it for Years when I raced the Shell Series & never had a issue.
I remember running TTS & the first time I used it I had a failure! Lots of people swear by TTS so maybe I did something wrong at the time, but it left me with a bad taste & a rebuild.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: bishboy on March 11, 2013, 02:15:26 pm
As I've yet to start my 84 KX250 and I have a bottle of Bel Ray Si-7 fully synthetic.

As this is my first 2 stroke in 20 yrs, is this ok to use and at what ratio? Or should I use TTS or Motel 800 like most others? To be mixed with 98 unleaded?

Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Zakk on March 11, 2013, 02:48:34 pm
......you get a much cooler charge as per firing as there is more fuel than oil. at 16 : 1 there is a lot of oil in the charge potentially allowing it to run hotter........

many people do not understand this.

i've had numerous discussions (quite often eventually turning into arguements) with riders whos believe using more 2stroke per litre of fuel means a cooler combustion temp...

 i always say if you want a cooler combustion temp then run a cooler spark plug
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Nathan S on March 11, 2013, 03:29:14 pm
Motul 800 at 30:1. Bike had about 80 hours on it when I sold it, possibly more (depending on how truthful the previous owner was). It was used for everything - trailriding, MX, Pony Expresses, teaching mates to ride, training in the sand at Larbert, etc.

New owner put a new top end in it, and found the original piston ring was still comfortably within spec.

Never fouled a plug, always ran clean. Spooge seems pretty irrelevant when you can get 100+ hours from a 125 MX top end.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Stevo17 on March 11, 2013, 03:37:50 pm
HI Bishboy, I run the Castrol TTS in my 84 KX250 at 32:1.  I did run it on Bel Ray H1R and tried different mixture ratios and it does seem a little cleaner on the TTS.  I reckon the Bel Ray Si7 would be a good drop. Try it around 32 or 35:1 and you will be sweet
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: gdr on March 12, 2013, 07:38:29 am
I think all relates to the way you ride them .
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: NR555 on March 12, 2013, 01:50:21 pm
Had problems with glazing with a full synth (Motul 800) on a cast iron bore (CZ).  I was losing noticeable compression towards the end of race days and we were forever honing the thing.

Maxima 927 or Castrol A747 fixed the issue.  Shell M would work too.  This all makes sense, considering full synths didn't exist back in the day!  The modern semi-castors work really well on the old bikes.  All of the benefits of castor, plus the clean running synthetic experience.

For a nicasil barrel, any good modern synth will do the job.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: oldyzman on March 12, 2013, 05:32:56 pm
NR 55, thats funny you say that, my 125e has the glazed bore syndrome.
Brett
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: maxi81 on March 12, 2013, 06:35:56 pm
Wow alot of replies here. Thanks for the info

Max
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Rossvickicampbell on March 12, 2013, 06:47:36 pm
Whitey - I am with you - Silkolene Comp 2 Plus - absolutely brilliant.  Only problem I have had was went I went to Tassie for the Nats and couldn't send any oils etc over so all I could get was Motul 800 - bike smoked more than it ever had.  I find Silkolene great.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: oldskool on March 12, 2013, 11:24:04 pm
Why would different oils affect different bikes in different ways.I only ask as motul works good for both my bikes but motorex and silkoline seem to make them both foul plugs. Could it be the type of fuel? as in bp shell etc.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Rusty on March 13, 2013, 08:14:25 am
Always used to run Motul 800 in my 90's CRs but for the pre 80's vintage bikes I want a similar type oil as run back then - especially with cast bores & chrome rings.

125cc - 32:1
250cc - 40:1
500cc - 50:1


Running Belray 2T right now but going to evaluate SL-2 next.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: 80-85 husky on March 14, 2013, 09:15:51 pm
Some bikes do not like some oils...  ??? beats me. i borrowed an old prolink xl250 off a mate in the early 90's and ran around on it for a month or so then decided to change the oil and give it a once over... i put new shell oil in it and within 2 weeks it had scoured the rings and was smokin like a 15:1 castor special. shagged it totally.

i could see an old CZ struggling with new synth oils but the nickasil bores like the synthetics ok.

Silkoline.. great oil. ran my old Husky (it was new then :-[ ) on 50:1 back in 1985..people freaked but it ran well and was well within service when i tore it down after a season of racing but the pro comp oil had a octane booster and it had a good kick over the std stuff. found it hard to hang on by the end of a long day in the saddle :o.

Summary: any good oil tts/ motul / etc at 30 - 40 :1 will be fine in all two strokes
fully synths can be safely run to 50 - 60:1 depending on your comfort level...
older castor styles 20: 1 enjoy the smell!!

does that sound right ??? ;)
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: JohnnyO on March 14, 2013, 09:31:51 pm
Had problems with glazing with a full synth (Motul 800) on a cast iron bore (CZ).  I was losing noticeable compression towards the end of race days and we were forever honing the thing.

Maxima 927 or Castrol A747 fixed the issue.  Shell M would work too.  This all makes sense, considering full synths didn't exist back in the day!  The modern semi-castors work really well on the old bikes.  All of the benefits of castor, plus the clean running synthetic experience.

For a nicasil barrel, any good modern synth will do the job.
What mixture were you running with the Motul 800? I use it in all my bikes at 40-50:1 with no problems and most of them have a cast iron bore.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: dirttracker on March 14, 2013, 09:47:45 pm
motorex castor kart at 16:1
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Lozza on March 16, 2013, 11:53:59 am
motorex castor kart at 16:1
saves those big ends disintergrating at 15,000  ;D
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: shelpi on March 16, 2013, 12:33:32 pm
excellent comments ;) so what should I run in my T250/350 1967 with the oil pump? cheers
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: tony27 on March 16, 2013, 01:09:06 pm
excellent comments ;) so what should I run in my T250/350 1967 with the oil pump? cheers
Used to run my T500III on castrol superTT semi synthetic, pump feeds the outer main bearings & big ends via shields but can't remember if the other feed goes to the inlet port or some part of the cylinder
Seeing as you're looking at running the bike in dirt track it should be okay to adjust the pump to deliver more oil otherwise just add a small amount to your fuel. When I had the T500 I had the specs for porting etc for roadracing but don't remember what was done as with the pump
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: shelpi on March 16, 2013, 01:15:51 pm
excellent comments ;) so what should I run in my T250/350 1967 with the oil pump? cheers
Used to run my T500III on castrol superTT semi synthetic, pump feeds the outer main bearings & big ends via shields but can't remember if the other feed goes to the inlet port or some part of the cylinder
Seeing as you're looking at running the bike in dirt track it should be okay to adjust the pump to deliver more oil otherwise just add a small amount to your fuel. When I had the T500 I had the specs for porting etc for roadracing but don't remember what was done as with the pump
cheers Tony  ;)
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Tim754 on March 16, 2013, 06:24:09 pm
excellent comments Wink so what should I run in my T250/350 1967 with the oil pump? cheers


yep ;)
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: GMC on March 17, 2013, 11:14:25 pm
I recommend Suzuki oil for Suzuki’s
Running something like Yamalube in a Suzuki could cause irreversible cross contamination.


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Misc%202/Suzuki-oil-1_zps5bf3aaf3.jpg)
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: oldyzman on March 18, 2013, 08:07:19 am
What happens when a semi syn is used the a full syn is used to the excess oil in the crankcase when it mixes.
Brett
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: shelpi on March 18, 2013, 11:05:09 am
I recommend Suzuki oil for Suzuki’s
Running something like Yamalube in a Suzuki could cause irreversible cross contamination.


(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Misc%202/Suzuki-oil-1_zps5bf3aaf3.jpg)
Ah aH Ahhh  :) :D ;D  :o ??? 8) :D   suzuki oil in a suzuki why didn't i think of that  :-[
so if it was a kawasaki (kwaka) would ya use duckems ? boom boom
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Tim754 on March 18, 2013, 12:51:24 pm
What happens when a semi syn is used the a full syn is used to the excess oil in the crankcase when it mixes?

The negligible amount would 'mix" and well, do it's job. Don't panic mate , this hysterical carry on about two stroke oils gets very tiresome. Look in other current threads a fella is told to set the oil pump half open and then put premix in the tank too!!!!!! ??????????????????? Fr f**ks sake Why bother mixing in any obviously useless none lubricating petrol!!!!!!! It might interfere with the two stroke lube Gods.

What does your bikes manufacturer recommend?  Try that. If your real paranoid, buy genuine  Yamaha ,Suzuki, Honda, Ktm etc  for your  Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, KTM ect.

The Days of mixing 'half a pint of SAE30 in a gallon of standard petrol" HAVE PASSED. Modern brand name two stroke oils are all far superior then Second World war crap OK. So go out fill up with FRESH fuel and QUALITY oil. Then tune your bike, Why??? seizures are most commonly tuning related but lazily blamed on two stroke oils
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Marc.com on March 18, 2013, 01:29:39 pm
this hysterical carry on about two stroke oils gets very tiresome.

You sound a little wound up Graeme, why don't you try Analube. ::)

Helps you relax on even the hardest rides, whether you are slamming those long straights or slipping one round a dusty berm the old Analube will get you there with a smile on your face  ;)


(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/Analube_zpsb90c6104.jpg)
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Tim754 on March 18, 2013, 07:54:15 pm
"You sound a little wound up Graeme, why don't you try Analube. "

It's Tim actually Marc :D and Thanks for the useful tip off on the poopy tube lube too :D :D :D :D Cheers
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Rider on March 18, 2013, 08:53:46 pm
Tims correct,
 alot of 2 stroke failures are blamed on oils when in fact carburetor jetting or ignition timing are more often the cause. I raced a tm 125 & 250 over 8 rounds plus club days last season with both bikes still running the original injection pumps and tanks using quality mineral based oils. Just gave the top ends a freshen up ,no bore wear ,minimal deposits on piston and head. Quick hone and new rings ready for next season.
Terry.   
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: Rusty on March 19, 2013, 01:37:13 pm
I hear a lot of comments about how the old bikes can't run full synthetics - that is far from the case.

Back in the day the old man bought a Suzuki shop from a couple guys that had developed a full synthetic oil and wanted to get serious with marketing it.  That oil was called NPG and we used to used that in the transmission as well as the mixing oil.   That was in all the marques we sold - Suzuki, CZ, Bultaco & DKW.  Was talking with our service manager a couple years ago about NPG as I was trying to source some and was told the guys sold it to a big oil company and it was shelved.  Kind of weird because we never experienced a simgle issue with it anjd the LAPD ran a trial in 10 cruisers with all doing better than a million miles and showing engine wear far less than usually expected.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: eno on March 19, 2013, 01:49:12 pm
I ran my CZ400 for six seasons of VMX champs and anything else that was run. I used 100% AV gas mixed @ 25:1 with Rock synthetic and later on Q8 (smells like pine apple).
I've never had to open the motor up to repair or replace anything.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: shelpi on March 19, 2013, 05:05:52 pm
What happens when a semi syn is used the a full syn is used to the excess oil in the crankcase when it mixes?

The negligible amount would 'mix" and well, do it's job. Don't panic mate , this hysterical carry on about two stroke oils gets very tiresome. Look in other current threads a fella is told to set the oil pump half open and then put premix in the tank too!!!!!! ??????????????????? Fr f**ks sake Why bother mixing in any obviously useless none lubricating petrol!!!!!!! It might interfere with the two stroke lube Gods.

What does your bikes manufacturer recommend?  Try that. If your real paranoid, buy genuine  Yamaha ,Suzuki, Honda, Ktm etc  for your  Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, KTM ect.

The Days of mixing 'half a pint of SAE30 in a gallon of standard petrol" HAVE PASSED. Modern brand name two stroke oils are all far superior then Second World war crap OK. So go out fill up with FRESH fuel and QUALITY oil. Then tune your bike, Why??? seizures are most commonly tuning related but lazily blamed on two stroke oils
excellent comment stay with the facts and stay with known products 8)
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: 80-85 husky on March 20, 2013, 07:43:20 am
tuning definitely causes 99% of 2- issues. air leaks, lean or rich jetting and mechanical failures.

Water cooling has helped enormously over the years producing 2 strokes that need little adjustment from the factory and delivering hours of trouble free motoring (i couldnt resist that).

air cooled bikes need attention to plug ranges as the seasons vary.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: head on March 20, 2013, 08:14:49 am
In the early days of VMX I had a YZ125A, it was fully rebuilt and I ran Penzoil mineral oil at 25 to 1. After a season of racing it was pulled apart and the big end was worn out. Changed to a full synthetic at 35 to 1 and never wore any thing out for the next couple of seasons. Would not use anything but synthetic now.
Title: Re: 2 stroke oil
Post by: shelpi on March 20, 2013, 12:14:04 pm
tuning definitely causes 99% of 2- issues. air leaks, lean or rich jetting and mechanical failures.

Water cooling has helped enormously over the years producing 2 strokes that need little adjustment from the factory and delivering hours of trouble free motoring (i couldnt resist that).

air cooled bikes need attention to plug ranges as the seasons vary.
so true it still amazes me how many people still resist doing plug drops and changes  :o and blame oil, carb tune, ignition tim.................