OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: JIM77 on December 27, 2012, 10:08:54 pm
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Anyone know of a good mechanic in the Brisbane area that does a bit of cash work on the side? I'm not a rich man, so any savings help.
In a month or 2, I will have my 96 CR250 rebuild almost to rolling stage and at that time I will start thinking about the motor and what to do with it.
Crank play seems O.K, the cylinder looks good, need to have some measurements done to be sure.
I've toyed with the idea of a new top end only, to sending the crank to the US to have it balanced and lightened, need some solid advice/guidence I suppose.
I know of a good mechanic, but would need to drop the engine off at his shop and collect it finished using mainly the aftermarket parts they supply. I want to use OEM where possible, supply my own parts and maybe modify a few things along the way, so it could take a few months to build.
Was tempted to do it myself, but haven't done a bottom end before, so am a bit nervous and by the time I buy case spliters etc, it might not be worth the pain and suffering.
Any contacts appreciated, Cheers Jim
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If the jobs going to take a few months... ???
Then to buy/aquire/borrow some tools, a good manual and advice won't be
A pain at all.
The skills/knowledge and people you will meet and learn from along the way
Will save you big time, next time.
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For the crank or cylinder work take them direct to serco in Deshon st, Woolongabba
You will need to strip everything yourself and just take the bare parts, then reassemble yourself.
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For the crank or cylinder work take them direct to serco in Deshon st, Woolongabba
You will need to strip everything yourself and just take the bare parts, then reassemble yourself.
I disagree there. If you want it done quickly and it spat out, take it there. If you are in no hurry you need to take it to either George Mackensie or Ron Russ. They are one man bands and never make mistakes. George is excellent with modifications. I'm happy to do the bottom end rebuild for you.
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Try this guy, excellent work Mark Power ph 0414239930, works from home ;)
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For the crank or cylinder work take them direct to serco in Deshon st, Woolongabba
You will need to strip everything yourself and just take the bare parts, then reassemble yourself.
I had my sons crank rebuild on is KTM 65 by them, through a shop and it vibrated something terrible. I should have left the bottem end alone.
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For the crank or cylinder work take them direct to serco in Deshon st, Woolongabba
You will need to strip everything yourself and just take the bare parts, then reassemble yourself.
I disagree there. If you want it done quickly and it spat out, take it there. If you are in no hurry you need to take it to either George Mackensie or Ron Russ. They are one man bands and never make mistakes. George is excellent with modifications. I'm happy to do the bottom end rebuild for you.
Thats what I'm looking for, it may only take a few weeks, it may take a month or 2. I'm more looking it for it to be right, not rushed.
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I quite honestly couldn't remember how many bits I've put through the serco workshop over the years (2 and 4 stroke) without a single problem. But each to their own I guess.
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I quite honestly couldn't remember how many bits I've put through the serco workshop over the years (2 and 4 stroke) without a single problem. But each to their own I guess.
No Problems, certainly no failures. I'm just a bit fussy and I think because they do so many cranks, they probably don't take that little extra time is all.
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I've had issues with serco in the past they will never admit fault & won't stand behind any of there products I'd stay away
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Jim....Many years ago I too didn't have the confidence to build my own bottom ends but after getting screwed by a bike shop for an engine build I decided to learn to do it myself and haven't looked back. To pull it down get a good service manual, the correct tools and pullers, get the bench spotless and take your time. Set up a help hotline with someone like 090 Brad who knows those Hondas in case you get stuck on something. Shop out the crank building and balancing to someone who knows what they're doing, ditto the cylinder boring but if you follow the book on everything else you'll eventually get it.
Some tips:
*A good idea is to go to the supermarket and get a good array of zip lock plastic bags and a texta pen. As you pull a part off the engine put in a bag and write what it is on it.
* Replace all of the case screws with new ones. Stainless steel screw kits are all over the internet.
* Replace every gasket, seal and bearing with new items. You'll feel much more secure when you know every thing is new.
* Use factory or name brand gaskets. Some of the cheapo sets are just that, cheap shit.
* Make sure the water pump housing is in good shape and not corroded. The last thing you need is coolant pissing out everywhere.
The pride you get when you hear an engine you built yourself fire up is cool. The money you save will make it worthwhile too.
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Anyone know of a good mechanic in the Brisbane area that does a bit of cash work on the side? I'm not a rich man, so any savings help.
In a month or 2, I will have my 96 CR250 rebuild almost to rolling stage and at that time I will start thinking about the motor and what to do with it.
Crank play seems O.K, the cylinder looks good, need to have some measurements done to be sure.
I've toyed with the idea of a new top end only, to sending the crank to the US to have it balanced and lightened, need some solid advice/guidence I suppose.
This bloke is as good as it gets for cranks
http://crankshaftrebuildingservices.com.au/
single cyl crank $50 yet to find ANY run out on Graham's cranks
The 'balanced and lightened' bit is something you don't need to do. They are balanced from the factory and lightened crank does not make for lower lap times.
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The 'balanced and lightened' bit is something you don't need to do
You reckon Lozza? Ask Dean Burt, Husky Pete or any of the guys who are seriously setting their engines up how much of a difference balancing makes. I've spoken to enough satisfied and surprised racers to know that I won't build another engine without getting Franks Cranks to balance and assemble its crank.
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The 'balanced and lightened' bit is something you don't need to do
You reckon Lozza? Ask Dean Burt, Husky Pete or any of the guys who are seriously setting their engines up how much of a difference balancing makes. I've spoken to enough satisfied and surprised racers to know that I won't build another engine without getting Franks Cranks to balance and assemble its crank.
Thats solid advice Firko, tell me more about Franks Cranks? Is he based in Australia?
I'm not looking for the fastest bike, just a strong, clean reving and well tuned engine. I don't plan on racing it, only enjoying it for the icon it is.
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Best advice is "Balance the crank"
Franks Cranks , you wont be any faster , but you with be smoooooooth , get cranked by Frank
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Are we talking Static or Dynamic balancing here ????
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Best advice is "Balance the crank"
Franks Cranks , you wont be any faster , but you with be smoooooooth , get cranked by Frank
Thats the ticket, the top end, rad valve and pipe will give me a bit more HP.
Where would Frank reside?
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Are we talking Static or Dynamic balancing here ????
Dunno the technical term, I assume Dynamic? Its not truing though thats what Serco do I believe.
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Where would Frank reside?
Frank Stanborough lives in Blacktown, NSW. He isn't cheap but he's the absolute best going by the large number of high profile clients he has. Cranks aren't his bread and butter, he's actually a grandfatherly semi retired 74 yr old ex Team Kawasaki ,Team Honda and Team Heron Suzuki race engineer who still balances cranks for most of the factory road race and motocross teams. His main love however is turning old British singles into fire breathing monsters, just wait until his own Matchless G80 and Alan Jones CCM, Monark GP and revamped Black Betty hit the tracks in 2013 to see what a genius he is. There's hardly a go fast Matchless or Manx Norton in the country that Frank hasn't pointed his spanners at. Anyone who witnessed how rocket fast Glen Evans G85 Matchless Metisse is will know. The old guy has forgotten more stuff than a room full of 'internet engineers' will ever know.
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Getting your crank balance factor correct is the best money you can spend, the motor spins easier, doesn't shake the s**t out of everything including the rider. I convinced Burty to balance his RM400 because he kept flogging the main bearing surfaces in the cases, since changing the balance factor suprise suprise no more problem and a much smoooother, easier running engine, he as also dropped of a tooth on the sprocket because it's spinning up quicker and he doesn't have to hold in one gear revving the s**t out of it, he can slip into a higher gear and drive out of corners. He is more than impressed and has since had all his motors done, he said he wished he had done it much earlier. I had Ribbo's 74 Husky 400 just done and Ribbo could not believe the difference it made ;), he is now having his 490 Maygo/Maynot done at present :o.
I have just had 3 390 cranks done and there was a great discrepancy in the weight Frank had to adjust in each crank to get to the right balance factor, as he said the factories could not afford to have some guy balancing every crank, he said all the works motors are done, he showed me some pictures he had taken of works Yamaha, Honda and Kawa cranks, they are amazing ;) .
Each motor i now rebuild it has been cranked by Frank ;)
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/21112011071a.jpg?t=1356753100)
Jonesy's American Eagle Cranked by Frank
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/FranksCranks_zpsdc004f4f.jpg)
Cranked by Frank
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Husky , does he do it with the S/E pin and bearing installed.
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Each motor i now rebuild it has been cranked by Frank ;)
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/21112011071a.jpg?t=1356753100)
That is the correct way to rebalance by adding mass to the light side. It adds inertia to which is where it's at.
Here it's taken to the enth degree by Rotax
(http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww347/sukkyyakky3/Project%20Aprilia%20RSR%20129315%20R/CAM00201.jpg)
Then to another level altogether by Aprilia Corse in their RSW/RSA engines.
(http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/Lozza85_2007/250-shafts1_zpsbdfcfffa.jpg)
(http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/Lozza85_2007/050.jpg)
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Oldfart
To balance the crank Frank needs every thing that is attached to the crank, ie piston, pin, le brearing, clips, spacers so he can weigh the reciprocating weight than work out the balance factor and whether to add or remove weight.
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Oldfart. It is a static balance. Dynamic balancing is when you spin the component to speed and take measurements of phase and vibration displacement and calculate where to add remove weight. Dynamic balancing is needed for shafts that run above their first critical speed (first mode of vibration) such as steam turbines and generators etc.
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Thanks, I have a understanding of them both, but wasn't sure what method he was using.
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Shoeys just been cranked by Frank ;)
(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy94/HuskyRacer/10012013108.jpg?t=1357781640)
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Another satisfied customer