OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: 09.0 on December 25, 2012, 06:37:59 pm
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Looking at getting into pre 60. What type of bike am I looking for?
First off, left hand gear change is preferred but no essential. What is though is if its rh gear change, must be a four stroke. Must be one down the rest up. A Jawa with the kickstarter being the gear lever is out as the gears are ass about.
Regarding suspension type, wheels etc, I'd like to know what is legal.
A pre 60 cz would be good if anyone has one, preferably late 50's.
Cheers.
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Good idea you need to do more classes..
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Good idea you need to do more classes..
It's a sickness as you know...
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dave 6 had one he bought
it was a road jawa converted to mx all bikes will be a road converted to mx.he sold it a while back.
should not be hard to build one but it will cost.
just buy a bsa gold star dbd 34 500cc you wont look back 15-20k
jim
pre 60 ariel owner but not restored
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airel still pop up from time to time and were used in the day
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Pre60 CZ is same as Jawa so you're stuck with english diesels in reality, pretty sure the pre-unit gearboxes are also down for up gearchange as well
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No matter which gear change set up you end up with you will soon get used to it, main problem is if you try to ride two different types at the one meeting.
I get a bit tangled these days with my two bikes on short circuit (dirt) but in my old days at Moorebank I rode 250,350, and 500cc classes with three different set ups!.
These days I couldn't cope with that.
cheers pancho.
Probably competed with Alvin in those days!
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, pretty sure the pre-unit gearboxes are also down for up gearchange as well
Pre unit Triumph gearboxs are up for up, as are the early unit 500s, 500 Tribsa would be nice.
Foss
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With the unit singles its an easy job to reverse the shift from down for up to up for up by turning over the shift plate . Dont know about pre unit gearboxes though ???
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Jeez Brad, you better get onto the Tour de France lollies if you want to race every class on the program ;D. However, the pre 60 class has for a long time been the poor bastard son of the sport but for some weird reason there's a bit of movement out there in Mancave City with a number of pre 60 class bikes being resurrected or built from scratch. For a while I've had a nice ex USA flat tracker Triumph T100SC engine which was originally intended to replace the pissy 250 Ducati single in my Hindall but my mates have rightly talked me out of that little deal on the grounds that I'd be buggering with the only Ducati frame Harry Hindall made. So, when Jonesy started to build his big dollar 1959 GP Monark I decided to build the opposite, a low budget pre 60 TriBSA using a different than traditional set of components. Housing the Trumpy engine is a BSA C15 frame, with Norton Roadholder forks, BSA Goldy front wheel and a Harley Davidson Sportster back wheel. It'll be topped off with a BSA B44 GP tank and the usual alloy guards. I'm hoping to have it up and active by the Nats in November, or if I'm industrious enough, the Canowindra HEAVEN round in October.
But, enough of my project and on to some suggestions for you Brad. Your need for a left foot change or conventional one down, four up right hander has made it a tad restrictive but I think I've found one that might just fit the criteria.....................
Honda CB72 250/CB77 305 .
This engine is the basis for countless road racers in it's early-mid sixties form but the pre 60 version while being a bit different can be easily upgraded internally to the latter specification. Even though the engine features a conventional left side, one down three up shift pattern the big no-no for many is that the very early Honda Dreams had a rotary gearbox where if you're not on top of what you're doing you can up change from top back to first with the dual consequences of an over the bars experience and a catastrophic engine over-rev causing all sorts of haemoraging (see DTs AJS photos for details). Luckily Webco made a neat little blank off plate of which I have one so if you decide to go the Honda route...I'll gladly supply it as a template to make one. Tons of go fast goodies are available for these engines thanks to the road racers, even down to genuine factory race parts such as 5 speed gearboxes and exotic clutches. The road racers have achieved serious horsepower from these motors and the 305 can be bored and stroked to 500cc. Aussie Tony Gill actually won Classic Daytona on Billy Snellings 500cc Honda CB77 10 or so years ago.
The CB72 frame is pressed steel backbone with tubular rear subframe with the motor as a stressed member. Some serious frame strengthening is needed or, fit the engine to a BSA or similar Brit frame.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/cb72_zpsd2f9c4ea.jpg)
The class 1959 model CB 72
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/clscrambler_zpsbabfb2cb.jpg)
tHE '67 CL scrambler version showing the stronger frame based on the earlier version.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/HondaScrambler_zps507fa828.jpg)
1959 Greeves Hawkestone:
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/GREEVEShAWKESTONE_zps264f83f3.jpg)
or..a GRUMPH....a '59 Greeves with a unit T100 Triumph motor:
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/greeves-triumph-grumph2_zps1e1f5044.jpg)
OR, Combine all of the above and fit a Honda motor in the Greeves frame!
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Jeez Brad, you better get onto the Tour de France lollies if you want to race every class on the program ;D.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Husqvarna,not as common as Tour de France lollies !!
cheers A
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Im not sure but I seem to remember the Indian Enfield is ok for pre 60 and pre 65 .
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Im not sure but I seem to remember the Indian Enfield is ok for pre 60 and pre 65 .
and surely they must have the shifter on the left for ADR??
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Thanks Firko. Great stuff. Now I have something to aim for.
I am the energiser bunny!
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Royal Enfield, either British or Indian are a great choice, parts everywhere and you can possibly use a 5 year old bike (Enter Michael Bamford sometime soon ::) )
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/royalenfield2_zpseefeb7cd.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/royalenfield_zpse2fdaf6b.jpg)
cancel the disc brakes of course.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/TRIAL125-X3_zps1a32777f.jpg)
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I'm liking the idea of the Honda thus far.
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Brad, see the photos and read about the Honda 305 that is included in the Joe Bolger article in Issue 52 of VMX.
Regards
Ken
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brad
dont forget the bike needs to be pre60 so 1959 make
most of the good hondas are pre62 for road racing i dont think cb72 or cd77 are 1959 only the dreams with pressed steel frames
jim
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Thanks Ken, I hadn't read that as yet.
Thanks also Jim. So maybe a Honda motor in a jawa or similar frame maybe.
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Preston Petty was an early Honda convert and won plenty on it.
There is a story on the ADV site about a Honda twin they raced in Baja-a modern version I mean. Quite a good story.
Any featherbed frame would be better than the pressed steel unit.
Looks like your pops gonna be busy Brad.
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brad
dont forget the bike needs to be pre60 so 1959 make
most of the good hondas are pre62 for road racing i dont think cb72 or cd77 are 1959 only the dreams with pressed steel frames
jim
Jims correct, as I said in my first post the pre 60 Honda Dream C77 305 OR C72 250 are the legal ones with the rotary gearboxes. The early engines can be converted to the higher spec CB quite easily.
Upon looking at the proper pre 60 Honda, the pressed steel frame would be rubbish for MX so you'd have to fit the engine into something else, maybe a Jawa Californian or Greeves frame.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Honda-C70-Dream-1956_zps2bf6437b.jpg)
Just to show how cool these things look as motocrossers, here below is Dave Ekins'(Buds Bro) '65 CB77 305.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/dave_elkins_305_zps355a4feb.jpg)
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Firko that bike of Dave Ekins is cool, would that be an aftermarket frame of some sort?
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If the Honda 305 is good enough for the legendary Gekko Kamen it should be good for Brad San 8)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/i092091_zps35181201.jpg)(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/i092127_zpsee7f294f.jpg)
Nikumu Na, Korosu Na, Yurushimasho” (Forgiveness without Hate or Death) This is the mantra of the masked vigilante known only as Gekko Kamen. Like a gale of wind, this mysterious “Agent of Justice” would appear out of nowhere to battle evil in all its many forms on his high powered Honda Dream. No one knows who the Gekko Kamen is but his exploits are legendary as is his kindness and spirit of justice.
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Dunno if that headdress would get thru scrutineering :-\
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Don't know where these fit in, but they look like a dream motors?
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/a249948_1_zps08cf24b9.jpg)
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/3416416913_a750c394dd_zpsc26b67f8.jpg)
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/3417223224_165734fb39_zps3ad94517.jpg)
I may know where there is one of these.
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww125/NoelSR/whatisit_zps3ba4d1d9.jpg)
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Another outfit for you to wear, Brad. I think this would be my favourite.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/i092091_zps35181201.jpg)
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Firko that bike of Dave Ekins is cool, would that be an aftermarket frame of some sort?
It's basically an original 60's CL77 frame with the usual doo-dads hacked off and some minor improvements done. I agree, these things are as cool as an iceberg. My American ex partners follow up husband to me (long story) is an old sixties and seventies desert racer who never sold a bike, he just parked them in the cellar under his house and moved on to his next bike. One day while we were dragging out his old Rokon Automatic for me to ride we also uncovered his CL77 desert racer from the 60's. We also dragged it out and after a fuel and oil change and a new battery the bike started second or third kick and sounded so sweet with its open pipes. We took it out to the desert but unfortunately the rear wheel self destructed before I got a ride. That old bike is probably still sitting in that cellar ::).
http://rivetrestorations.com/Motorcycles/Documents/quicksilver.pdf (http://rivetrestorations.com/Motorcycles/Documents/quicksilver.pdf)
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The Greeves option is still a good one. Here's a good looking 59 Greeves Hawkestone and another rolling frame on UK eBay right now.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130822723282?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130822723282?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Greeves-Hawkstone-1958-Frame-No-85xx-SAS-Rolling-Chassis-Rare-find-Pre-65-Trials-/330846813668?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item4d0801bde4 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Greeves-Hawkstone-1958-Frame-No-85xx-SAS-Rolling-Chassis-Rare-find-Pre-65-Trials-/330846813668?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item4d0801bde4)
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Brad, I have a pic from the day somewhere of Donny Newell on a Honda Dream. You might want to ask him about them ( you might not too ;D)
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Brad contact the Buzzard he has a Greeves for sale i think its a 59 :)
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If big dollars are no problem Brad, let me introduce you to the ESO option..........
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/eso-mx-p.jpg)
Or the lovely Monark. Jonsey's bike is identical to this. Frank Stanboroughs building the engine as we speak, they're just waiting fore the guy in the Hunter Valley who builds con-rods for the V8 Supercars finishes the rod for it.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/monarch_zps9eec9fdb.jpg)
MONARK 500- Motocross - 1959
Sweden was a major presence in early motocross, noted both for its talented riders and groundbreaking machinery, and Sweden’s Monark is one of the rarest motocross machines from the 1950’s and 1960’s. The marque enjoyed great success in the International Six Days Trials and achieved its motocross zenith in 1959, when Sten Lundin rode an Albin-powered Monark to the FIM World 500cc Motocross Championship.
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Yes, but his kit would have to include a load .303 rifle and pudding basin tin hat would it not?
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Here's one mans interpretation of what I'm building. BSA C15 250 frame, Triumph T100 unit motor. Mine's using class legal Norton forks, BSA Goldie front hub and Harley rear hub. I also hope mine's a
bit lot better looking than this with alloy side panels and a nicer shaped B44 alloy tank. I'll probably use a more period correct low front 'guard as well. I'm really looking forward to putting all of this shit together and a working motorcycle come out the other end of the sausage machine. Most Tribsas use the A10/Goldie style frame but I wanted something different and cheap. The trials chaps use the C15 frame but it's rarely used for motocross because it's basically shit. There is a lot of gussets and braces to weld in but I think it'll be a good thing once its all together. Finding decent forks is the big drama for pre 60. Norton Roadholders were used by Monark so that's good enough for me. Somebody (possibly Frank Hipkin) told me that certain Cerianis make the cutoff as well. The state of the art rear wheel has always been the BSA QD wheel but with a bit of help from Google I found that the Harley Sportster rear wheel was the same from 1957 to 1978 when they went to disc brakes (I think). The seventies models come with a cool Borrani mudcatcher rim so if you're going to get one you may as well get a late version with the slick rim as the hubs are all legal. Dear old Frank Stanborough donated the BSA Goldstar front hub which we'll modify the way they did it back in the day by drilling the shit out of it. That's all of the "Major Components" covered so it's just a matter of making it all look like they're meant to be together.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Tri1-1_zps43b14f46.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/HindallDT1060.jpg)
Harley Sportster back wheel
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/GOLDIEHUB_zps04c4a475.jpg)(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/GOLDIEBACKINGPLATE_zps121e8864.jpg)
BSA Goldstar front hub with the race holes ;D
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Brad
What about a DKW RT250 rare but very nice German made bike to go with all your Maicos
1954/58 s/arm frame
Motor all roller bearing
S/arm mounted needle rollers
Well ahead of their time and some thing out of left field
Photo is half way built of my then p3 road race DKW which now will end up as a pre60 VMX as found a twin 350 DKW to roadrace in P3
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2mmfxv8.jpg)
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Brad
What about a DKW RT250 rare but very nice German made bike to go with all your Maicos
1954/58 s/arm frame
Motor all roller bearing
S/arm mounted needle rollers
Well ahead of their time and some thing out of left field
Photo is half way built of my then p3 road race DKW which now will end up as a pre60 VMX as found a twin 350 DKW to roadrace in P3
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2mmfxv8.jpg)
Are you offering it up for sale? Or just as an example?
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or....Greeves NSU. Frank Stanborough has one that'd fit pre 60 with a minor suspension (and possibly a different rear subframe) changes
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/7741717476_44d3dbf047_zpsefadd359.jpg)
This isn't Franks but it's very similar
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Lets not forget the weirdly beautiful Adler as shown in my friend Gus Preim's gorgeous bike.......
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/gusAdler_zps48509be2.jpg)
I was pleasantly surprised to see this bike cutting laps at CD5 and was amazed at how hard it went. These bikes were hot stuff in mid to late 50's motocross, especially in Germany and Holland. Your Dad would have memories of Adler twins running back in the old country Brad.
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Brad
Sorry not for sale just throwing out a idea as the DKW is one of the early 50s two stroke that can be competitive with the early 4 strokes
A DKW guy over your way might have one he fits Suzuki rods/pistons and can make good HP
I can PM his details
Cheers
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Hey Murray, you've tried that tank on your CZ Rickman and the DKW and it looks shit on both of them ;D ;D
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i might know were theres another maico bizzard frame and eng and leading link forks
produuction started in 1954 i think
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this type off thing ,which some one bought for this very reason
(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/ozmaico/01062011006.jpg)
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Firko
True I know but its Alloy 8) 8) 8)
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Take a good look at Karl Landrus' uuber cool '57 Maico Blizzard, replace the out of period forks, wheels and possibly the later swingarm with period correct bits and you've got a really cool pre 60 Maico. Left foot, one down, three up too. Paul's 'Starter Pack' Blizzard is a great starter. It'd fit in with the other pre 75 Maico tackle as well Brad....these engines are almost the same inside.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/klp1957maico_zps042b008f.jpg)
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the one above is sold but i think theres another floating about ;D
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And then we have the budget racers budget racer.....the humble yet totally bulletproof Jawa Californian. Newcastle Jawa maistro Dave Morris once told me that to build a pipe that actually worked on a Jawa Californian it'd have to be 4 metres long! They're basic, some might say slow and a bit lumpy but a lot of punters raced them back in the day. Although they have a close resemblence to a twin port CZ, they're sadly nothing like them. I reckon they're as cool as.... .
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/jawa-250_zpsb58a2e17.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/misc34_zps7f88e964.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/P01_zpsc0b740b2.jpg)
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Jeez Brad, you'll be sorry you asked soon :D :D
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It's an old ploy....give a bloke too many choices and he invariably picks the wrong one. ;D
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that bike of Dave Ekins is cool, would that be an aftermarket frame of some sort?
It's basically an original 60's CL77 frame with the usual doo-dads hacked off and some minor improvements done. I agree, these things are as cool as an iceberg.
My first bike was a CB72
While mine looks a bit different to the Ekins bike I didn’t realise at the time that I had the potential to be cool.
Pretty sure none of my mates realised I had the potential to be cool either.
I used to brag that Elvis rode one in Roustabout but the next thing I know Elvis became uncool as well.
I would have liked to have had a mask like Gekko Kamen when I was riding it so no one would know it was me but I was always too busy trying to turn it into a 250cc from a 125cc engine with a 125cc air pump.
I think it was around this time that I grew to hate point’s ignitions.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/My%20bikes/CB72-1.jpg)
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Does anyone have a picture of a pre '60 Husky ? Rolf Tibblin won Husqvarna it's first World title (might have still been called the European title at that time) in the 250 class in 1959, so you would think that the pre '60 Huskys would be a competitive bike.
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Does anyone have a picture of a pre '60 Husky ? Rolf Tibblin won Husqvarna it's first World title (might have still been called the European title at that time) in the 250 class in 1959, so you would think that the pre '60 Huskys would be a competitive bike.
I would think a Husky would be up with the best in the class.
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pre 60 Husky sounds exy $$$$$
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Hopefully all this pre60 talk will inspire a surge of participation in both pre60 & 65 classes.
Merry Xmas guys.
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pre 60 Husky sounds exy $$$$$
called the Silverpen (spelling ?) only know of one and its in WA.Rare as RH blue frame 8)
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(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m605/Husky500evo/hva_cross_58_zpscf59bcbf.jpg)
1958 HVA Cross "Silverpilen"(means silver arrow, apparently) 175cc
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Was there anything under 100cc, we need touring him back to the field ;D :D
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I would think a Husky would be up with the best in the class.
Not back then John, the 175 Silverpen wouldn't have been on the same lap as the British heavies, Greeves or Maico. Five years later it was a different story. If you're referring to those beautiful 4 stroke monsters, they weren't to become a Husqvarna until 1962. Prior to that they were Monarks up until 1960 and Sten Lundin won the 500 title in '61 in Lito livery. The Monark, Husky and Lito were for all intended purposes the same bike in different livery. If you could find one you'd have to ride it as a Monark in pre 60. The engine is a Swedish Albin.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/s780_9I9D9318_zps57c2229f.jpg)
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And then we have the budget racers budget racer.....the humble yet totally bulletproof Jawa Californian. Newcastle Jawa maistro Dave Morris once told me that to build a pipe that actually worked on a Jawa Californian it'd have to be 4 metres long! They're basic, some might say slow and a bit lumpy but a lot of punters raced them back in the day. Although they have a close resemblence to a twin port CZ, they're sadly nothing like them. I reckon they're as cool as...
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/misc34_zps7f88e964.jpg)
I'm into that.
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Was there anything under 100cc, we need touring him back to the field
It's an old ploy....give a bloke too many choices and he invariably picks the wrong one
A little Bantam might be the perfect field leveller but he's showing interest in a Jawa Californian so that little plan seems to have worked ;D.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/2012-06-09091200_zps9bf91ee3.jpg)
Or Perhaps a circa 1954 DKW. Now that's a hell of a seat my friends.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/DKW20125cc20Motocross201954_zps8f207c4a.jpg)
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Was there anything under 100cc, we need touring him back to the field
It's an old ploy....give a bloke too many choices and he invariably picks the wrong one
A little Bantam might be the perfect field leveller but he's showing interest in a Jawa Californian so that little plan seems to have worked ;D.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/2012-06-09091200_zps9bf91ee3.jpg)
"Remember, when you stop, you have to put your foot down!"
OR
"No Vaughan, I can't come with you!"
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Actually Brad it was "when you want to stop -you have to put your foot down" see the size of the front brake on that.
To be honest, that was the best days racing I've had in years-that little thing went where you pionted it and could pass anyone on the inside. It just lacked HP oh and piston clearance :D
I just gave up on a James Villiers I was offered for a grand. I was really after one with a full crank and 4 speeds.
To see a field of these getting around must have been a sight.
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Two years ago, when I started looking for a pre60 bike, I picked out a couple of options - Greeves Hawkstone, or a 350 MAC Velo. My reasoning was
1/ the Greeves was a made for racing steed with no shortage of reasonably priced parts. It was light and easy handling, which suited my lack of fitness level. The disadvantages were a power level well down on a 4stroke of that period. So gearing must be spot on to suit different tracks. However, less tiring in long races.
2/ the Velo seemed to be a good inbetween 4stroke option. A bit lighter than the 500s, nice 54in wheelbase, many performance options, don't vibrate too much, good 4speed. I rode one on short circuit and speedway years ago with what seemed humungous(?) power on methanol.
Couldn't find either, ended up with the HJH. Go figure. No regrets.
One thing I learned by the time I finished, by the time you set up the rolling chassis with chains, sprockets, tyres, shocks, forks, etc etc, 2strokes are no cheaper than 4strokes to restore. And it sure helps to get as complete a bike as possible, evan if you plan some very ambitious alterations.
Would still like a MAC, though.
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/lsaml080420v.jpg)
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/l246-64-0805v.jpg)
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/l246-64-0805h.jpg)
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/L246-64.jpg)
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/guzzi500gambadolzagq4.jpg)
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/cmb2.jpg)
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/lsaml080420v.jpg)
I know someone who is doing 1 of those up, the swedes can't work out how it ended up in NZ
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If the bike is a Twin port it would be very rare Husqvarna, if its not, they are still a rare bike,but not that rare if that makes sences
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Dave old mate, those Lindstroms are pre 65 not pre 60.
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Yah, I know, but they look good.
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Was there anything under 100cc, we need touring him back to the field
It's an old ploy....give a bloke too many choices and he invariably picks the wrong one
A little Bantam might be the perfect field leveller but he's showing interest in a Jawa Californian so that little plan seems to have worked ;D.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/2012-06-09091200_zps9bf91ee3.jpg)
Or Perhaps a circa 1954 DKW. Now that's a hell of a seat my friends.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/DKW20125cc20Motocross201954_zps8f207c4a.jpg)
that exhaust system looks pretty advanced for 1954!
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Dave old mate, those Lindstroms are pre 65 not pre 60.
Yah, I know, but they look good.
So does a Yamaha 400 B but it isn't pre 60 either. PRE 60 DAVE.
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Firko, that piccy of the #98 " Bantam ", that's never a Bantam motor in it, I think old mates race shirt says it all. What's the go ??
Foss
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Firko, that piccy of the #98 " Bantam ", that's never a Bantam motor in it, I think old mates race shirt says it all. What's the go ??
Yeah I realised that Foss.....EML on here is the rider in question so over to you Vaughn ;)
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No worries, the Deek motor looks like a Bantam, but then I guess it would , eh ?
Foss
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Firko, that piccy of the #98 " Bantam ", that's never a Bantam motor in it, I think old mates race shirt says it all. What's the go ??
Foss
it was classic to watch and consistancy of the rider.
Points added up and he was a title winner. :P
Long live pre65 ;D
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The TriBSA epitomises what Joe Average rode back in the fifties. Here's a few examples of the BSA A10 frame/Triumph 500/650 combo.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/TRIBSA_zpsce33564c.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/tribsa_500_1958_zpsa75c6e0b.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/37vstill_zpsc401e3be.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/tribsa2-1_zps45412436.jpg)
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Is it true the Kevlars are working on a Pre 60 Blender???
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Those Tribsa's look nice but I can't help thinking no wonder I cant get hold of a decent rear hub for my CZ when I see them, second 1 down appears to be running twinpipe wheels
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second 1 down appears to be running twinpipe wheels
That looks like a bolt up sprocket hub rear wheel to me.
CZ wheels aren't legal for pre 60 so it can't be those blokes ::). The CZ wheel was the standard for pre 65 bikes until 1: they started breaking and 2: folks began noticing how ugly they were ;D.
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The Bantam is a D4 with a Villiers 197 motor that is set up for trials, 1st gear is good for walking pace and top is good for 30kph ;D
Apparently the were the go in the day....for trials.
I am currently searching for a James with a full crank and 4spd, very similar but a better option.
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Well the hunt is on and we are circling in!
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Well the hunt is on and we are circling in!
on what?
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Well the hunt is on and we are circling in!
on what?
A sidecar.... ;D
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Well the hunt is on and we are circling in!
on what?
A sidecar.... ;D
FINALLY Got you to admit it Brad!!
Now, about that, you will need to pick you speed up a fair bit, even Adam is quicker than you on an outfit, but hey, let me know when you want to go practice. bahahaha
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I know what Brads gone and bought for the pre 60 class but my lips are glued shut. All I can admit is that I knew of the bike myself but forgot all about it......Damn. It's not a Maico but it's a really, really good thing 8) 8) 8).
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So when do we see it?
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When it's paid for.
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If you've either, had a Lotto win, cashed in your Super, or Nana's left you a few quid in her will, this is the pre 60 bike to own. It might not be the fastest but aside from possibly a Monark, it's the rich boy fun machine....the BSA Goldstar DBD34. How beautiful is that motor?
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/bsa1_zps58d86ad8.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/bsa-gold-star-scrambler-2-865x570_zpsd5b4abfe.jpg)
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I like the Ariel RH too, so which was better?
I know only the compy (Ariels) ones were super light but were they anywhere near them?
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(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Ariel-HS-Scrambler_zpsf776c4e7.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/ArielHS_zps1fcdc85c.jpg)
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/1955_Ariel_HS (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/1955_Ariel_HS)
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old mate on an Ariel races at Nudgee occasionally. I don't think he'd get anywhere near a Goldstar
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That's what I meant Mainline, the comp Ariels were much lighter than the proddy version and much less likely to break.
Vern Grayson told me that they had problems with hubs too, but the what didn't from the sounds of it?
Nice looking bike in that trim though.
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hate to burst your ariel bubble but the iron early ariels are the ones to get going.they are the closeest thing you can get to a jap speedway motor.you have to through bolt them something you cant do the the ht and hs alloy ariels.
i have a 350 and a 500.in the late 70s early 80s there were some iron 500 ariels in featherbed frames they were faster than most manx nortons and g50 matchos.corish ariels i think they were called.if you didnt through bolt them and run hi comp and methenol they blew the tops off.
jim
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Thankyou jim, I'll take a walk to the shed and have another look :) :)
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Well now it's paid for, just have to get it up from Newcastle. Anyone coming my way???
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/Attachment-1.jpg)
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Oh it's a 557 Jawa, 250. 1959. One owner!!!!
Motocrosser, not a road bike or enduro.
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Slap 090 on it and it's a winner for sure.....but then Brad, you could do the same on my Flying Flea :D :D :D
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Drakie is going to be sick that he missed that one!
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Well now it's paid for, just have to get it up from Newcastle. Anyone coming my way???
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/Attachment-1.jpg)
Don`t get to excited, they are not that good.
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In Brads hands it will be!
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Suck ;)
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Well now it's paid for, just have to get it up from Newcastle. Anyone coming my way???
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/Attachment-1.jpg)
Don`t get to excited, they are not that good.
Well how good does it have to be? If it gets around the track it's good enough for me. How the fuc k would you know anyway? You don't keep a bike long enough to ride one.
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so with the Royal/indian enfields what year are ok for pre 60
any 350 bullet without front disc?
500 bullet??? any help appreciated
Noel
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I raced and owned the same bike, thats I now, it was to slow for me, for your riding style it would be perfect.
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Brad, I could sense the smile when I posted the photos of a couple of Jawas earlier in the thread ;). As I said to you offline, that bike is a genuine one owner jewel, owned by one of the most knowledgable Jawa two stroke guys on the planet, Dave Morris. It's your bike so you can paint it passion pink if you like but seeing that it's such a well preserved survivor, it'd be a shame to restore all of that hard earned patina out of it. If it were mine I'd be leaving it just as it is. Restoration often sucks the soul right out of a bike....and trust me Brad, this bike has a ton of soul. Congratulations mate.....but one small thing. Is there a hope that your dad might ride the Jawa in pre 60 and give us old punters a sporting chance ::) ;D. Now all we need is someone to buy Gus's Adler and pre 60 will start to look interesting.
have a 350 and a 500.in the late 70s early 80s there were some iron 500 ariels in featherbed frames they were faster than most manx nortons and g50 matchos.corish ariels i think they were called.if you didnt through bolt them and run hi comp and methenol they blew the tops off.
Jimmy, there wasn't a lot of original Ariel parts left inside the Corish bikes mate. They were, for all intended purposes ESO/Jawa speedway engines with an Ariel "skin". For motocross, the HS or Red Hunter is fine in stock or semi stock tune. While the Corish Ariels were cool bikes, the Corish family were low life scumbags. They did time for stealing old Allen Burts AJS 7R and rare as rocking horse shit Matchless G45 twin. The bikes were never recovered and poor old Allen was never the same bloke again. He loved those bikes and died a broken man. It was a disgraceful thing to do to a brother racer, especially one that trusted them.
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cool bike Brad.Hope to see it at Nudgee this year.
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Opp's! I'm treading on egg shells today! Unfortunately I have seen him ride and its fact. You could give him a pair of roller skates with square wheels and he would still be quick.
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There are plenty of quick riders out their, brad is riding classes that their isn`t much competition.
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cool bike Brad.Hope to see it at Nudgee this year.
it will be for sure.
Firko, there is a real good chance that this will be the bike that Bertie will have a ride on. I'm not that interested in riding it in the nationals if only because I don't want to look like even more of a trophy hunter. One way or another it will be on the start line at the nationals simply to bolster numbers.
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There are plenty of quick riders out their, brad is riding classes that their isn`t much competition.
you're an idiot. I ride just about all of them.
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From where I was he might have to grow some extra arms to carry all trophy's back to Qld
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Brad
The old Jawa 557/559 might be a good pre60 mount
The MX built in VICTORIA via Drakie /friends think based on 559 road bike was sold over here the 1st owner rode the wheels off it bloody fast and Great to watch
Everybody saying thats a heap of shit OLD JAWA ;D ;D ;D
This one down in Victoria ridden by Buster blows a lot Mega dollar pukka racers into to the weeds in P3 in the roadrace world
(http://i46.tinypic.com/jseskz.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/qxqb6u.jpg)
Cheers
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Should have got the road racer and give us all a chance!
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Brad thats a really cool bit of kit 8) Russell had one over here , saw it get ridden once in an exibition ride and seemed to get along well.
I think that one got sold to a bloke in the UK ??? That one you have bought looks the goods , will be great to see Bertie out there doing it :)
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There are plenty of quick riders out their, brad is riding classes that their isn`t much competition.
you're an idiot. I ride just about all of them.
Nasty little weed, I`am not the trophy hunter, it will be a good bike for your dad.
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so with the Royal/indian enfields what year are ok for pre 60
any 350 bullet without front disc?
500 bullet??? any help appreciated
Noel there was a rather heated discussion on here a couple of years ago over whether the India Enfield was legit for pre 65. I reckon it is, Michael Bamford reckoned it's not. The newest MoMs I've got is 2008 and it lists all Royal Enfields as legal for pre 65 but for some reason they're not listed for pre 60. Jonesy's got a 1958 big fin Royal Enfield Fury motor which is basically an Enfield India motor with a big finned head. His plan was to fit the motor to a BSA A10 frame and ride it in pre 60 but that project was canned when he got his 59 Monark GP. Assuming an Enfield India is legal for pre 65, I can't see why they wouldn't be allowed in pre 60 seeing that the engine and frame were virtually unchanged from the fifties British built bikes.
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I raced and owned the same bike, thats I now, it was to slow for me, for your riding style it would be perfect.
You never know when to stop do you?
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Well, I was making comment that the Jawa is that good, I am going by experiance, it will be find for his dad to ride, but its ok for o90 to sling off at me, but not good for me to come with am answer. is that what your saying, Mainline.
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There are plenty of quick riders out their, brad is riding classes that their isn`t much competition.
You're not coming out of this with a lot of cred Dave. Give it a rest.
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FIRKO
there is not a lot of ariel in my gen art senior 350 race motor either.that is what i was getting at .they lend themselves towards fast motors.you have to modify all the old bikes anyway or they will end up like the short stroke ajs of daves
jim
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Well now it's paid for, just have to get it up from Newcastle. Anyone coming my way???
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/Attachment-1.jpg)
Cool machine.. Can't wait to see it going round the track.
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Good score Brad, if guy's like you aren't prepared to race in pre60 then eventually we'll have no pre60 class.
I have to agree with Firko, stick with the well earned original Patina.
If anyone from Briz are coming down to Taree for the Troy Bayliss meeting I can pick it up on my way through and pass it on?
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Heres one that'll give you half a mongrel :P :P
(http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii576/KAB171/babe_on_jawa_2-stroke-twin-enduro_zps8e572671.jpg)
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Nice bike Brad.
Been a long time since I've been inside 1 of those motors but I do know that the bike I built when I first started riding trials was easily converted to seperate kickstart & gearlever using parts from a NZeta/CZeta scooter but I don't have parts books anymore to compare numbers
If someone can tell you whether the kickstart/gearchange shaft number is the same as in the 125/175 motors then it's an easy swap involving only removal of the clutch
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Brad, mate that's one cool looking bike you have there.
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Thats what frustrated me when I was riding my jawa when shifting gears fast, the gear lever would switch back to the kickstarter, in the end it was a easy fix.
I apologize to you brad if I caused any ill feeling to you and take back my comments, your jawa may be a better machine than the one I owned, mine rode well but it wasn`t a quick machine.
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Not as good as KB's shot
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Campbelltown/Campbelltown-040B_zpsf0d0687f.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a393/gmcloa/Campbelltown/Campbelltown-48B.jpg)
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My was the same, but it wasn`t that one, he owned two.
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Not as good as KB's shot
A lot prettier than that Canam370 blokes pic ey ;)
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That bike will surprise you how well it can go. In the mid 60s, while we were racing our Greeves, Dots etc, right on our hammer in every corner was a VERY noisy mate riding a modified road Jawa version - and this will be a class above that monster.
My late brother in law was game enough to scramble a 350 Jawa - now that was a real beast. Never saw them break down though.
Good luck, Brad. Looks great as it is. The more the merrier.
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Going off having ridden both early 60s 250 & '53 350 road bikes I'd prefer the 350, lot more torque & lower centre of gravity makes it nicer to ride.
I reckon Brad will do rather well on this bike especially if pre60 isn't just an all in class
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You guys are getting it mixed up with a Californian I think. This is called a 557 and is an mxer. It has a separate kick starter and gear lever like a Cz. According to the previous owner, it is one of about six imported into the country. So I am confident it will go well.
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most national d/track meets i have been to pre60 and pre65 are all powers.i think brad is a good enough rider to over come the 250cc difference in mx.dont know about dirt track though those bsa and velos are quick
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Good score Brad, if guy's like you aren't prepared to race in pre60 then eventually we'll have no pre60 class.
I have to agree with Firko, stick with the well earned original Patina.
If anyone from Briz are coming down to Taree for the Troy Bayliss meeting I can pick it up on my way through and pass it on?
thanks for the offer Steve. I will ask in the transport section.
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Brad, my mates bike was a stripped down Californian, just making a comparison. I must say I will be very pleased to see a genuine pre60 Jawa on the track.
Cheers, Mike
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There is another 557 Jawa here in Victoria not used for years,I am surprised know one has jump on it and draged it out.
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Here's the delightful Mel with John Caldwells 1957 Maico.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/MEL-57Maico_zpsa17ac385.jpg)
It was purpose built to compete in the Premier Lightweight class.
The rules allow for 7" travel up front and 4" rear travel. The original Earles type forks were replace with later units and the early very short swing arm was replace with a later square barrel type. As per the rules the main part of the frame remained the same. After that particular muddy event at Washougal I decided to make a few improvements to the frame. The battery tray was removed and the frame strengthened in that area and an aluminum air box was fabricated along with an improved air filter system. The rules allow for a pipe with two cones, so I fabbed up a down pipe prototype along the lines of the 77 250. It works well and allows the motor to really rev out. As per the rules it runs a 34mm carb and to accomplish this the intake was enlarged as the original was only 28 mm. I also increased the size of the transfer ports. The head is an aluminum type and has been modified to my own design. I run a PVL but this is going to be changed to another type that is programmable.
The original "M" type motors are ok but there is room for improvement, they use a 3 plate clutch and a single non roller primary chain. The rods are long and thin and the big end bearing is a strange affair, as well next to impossible to find. The motor is narrow and the transfer slots are narrow at the base. Because of this I decided to use a square barrel lower end, That gave me an upgraded transmission, primary chain and clutch. I was also able to take advantage of the wider port slots and increase the transfer port area of the cylinder by welding up the lower section of the cylinder and widening the port sizes.
Shortening the stroke with the square barrel lower end meant shortening the cylinder. There was lots more done but I don't want to divulge all my tricks. When originally built it ran 13 / 58 gearing but when I changed the pipe design I was able to drop to a 56 on the rear. All in all a fun bike to ride and is quite fast as race results have proven.
Cheers, John
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/maico250.jpg)
This is my favourite
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Matchless G80 are good things too. Most G80 engines in motocross are housed in Metiss frames but the stocker or a BSA frame work well for pre 60..........
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/g80_zps0507f5ab.jpg)
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My choice for 2014...a TriBSA
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/TriBSA_zpsa48648a2.jpg)
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/JeffSmith.jpg)
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/MONARK_600.jpg)
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/JeffSmith.jpg)
Great photo, shows the older bikes can handle more than flat paddocks.
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/SnR.jpg)
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In the above photo of Jeff Smith, John Clayton and Dave Curtis riding in the Brian Stonebridge Memorial meeting, the #20 bike of Curtis is more than likely the Cheney Matchless now owned by Jonesy. The Maico in the shot above is Fritz Betzelbacher, the 1957 European 250 Champion, when the Euro title was as close to a World Championship the 250's got. The class got full World status in 1962 when Torsten Hallman won it on a Husky. That's the closest Maico ever got to a World Title. The Adler rider is Dutchman Rudy Boom.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15Nov07089.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/CurtisWestbury.jpg)
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With the talk of pre 60 Ariels coming up a few posts back I came across this great shot of three old war horses that I took at the very first Amaroo Greybeards Vintage Meet, Easter 1988.
Shown is the late, great Roy East chatting with Albert Newton aboard the fifties Ariel 500 that he still owns to this day. Albert raced the bike from the mid fifties right through to the end of the sixties and then brought it back to race vintage in the late 80's/early 90's. Alby would have to be in his 80's yet he rode the bike around the carpark at last years Hawkesbury Club reunion at Bilpin.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Picture001-1.jpg)
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(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac346/albrid-3/JeffSmith.jpg)
Great photo, shows the older bikes can handle more than flat paddocks.
So where are all the beautiful sandy circuits now days.
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I personally hate sand but each to his own I guess*....I think this photo is Hawkestone and it still exists today.
Being rescued by the Police Rescue Squad after breaking my leg deep in the Kurnell Sandhills in 1971 has a strong influence on my dislike of sand today ;D
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A TriBSA from that same 1988 Amaroo meeting. It must be out there in someones shed....anyone recognise it?
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Picture024.jpg)
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I personally hate sand but each to his own I guess*....I think this photo is Hawkestone and it still exists today.
Being rescued by the Police Rescue Squad after breaking my leg deep in the Kurnell Sandhills in 1971 has a strong influence on my dislike of sand today ;D
No Dakar for you then hahahah
I don't mean 3 foot deep sand as seen in the Dutch sidecar cross, just 6" or so on the top.
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Here ya go Brad.......
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/jawabrochure_zps4dfb0827.jpg)
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(http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii576/KAB171/cz_zpsb9f3ea12.jpeg)
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Nice stuff guys. Dads like a kid. He can't wait to get it!
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I read somewhere else on here that someone's about to debut a Parilla Wildcat. There's yet another interesting bike these old classes attract.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/parilla250.jpg)
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My other pre 60 class racer, my Maico 250 arrives later this week from the USA. It might be a bit of a struggle on motocross with that (lack of) back suspension though but it'll be a fun ride for dirt track
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/013.jpg)
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A TriBSA from that same 1988 Amaroo meeting. It must be out there in someones shed....anyone recognise it?
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Picture024.jpg)
Hey Mark,
I think that's the ex Terry Gunter TriBSA that Phil Barrett owned then and Fast Eddie owns now. In the backgound is my Yellow Maico and Roger Dean's MkIII Pursang,
Pete.
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I think that's the ex Terry Gunter TriBSA that Phil Barrett owned then and Fast Eddie owns now. In the backgound is my Yellow Maico and Roger Dean's MkIII Pursang,
Of Course Pete,(sound of penny dropping), that's when Phil Barrett owned it. I'm so used to seeing it in Edgars blue livery I plum forgot all about the bikes yellow period. ;D Yep, the bike's sure in a good home all right.
BTW Pete, the managing director of Franks Cranks Pty Ltd wants you to ride his Mojo Matchy at the big meetings this year, especially the DT Nats in October. Save that date!!! Mojo v Betty pre 65 shootout!
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BTW Pete, the managing director of Franks Cranks Pty Ltd wants you to ride his Mojo Matchy at the big meetings this year, especially the DT Nats in October. Save that date!!! Mojo v Betty pre 65 shootout!
I'll do it Mark - I don't want Frank getting cranky. ;D
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(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Picture024.jpg)
Is it Mt Kemba Firko ?
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S&A... I think it says Amaroo...
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S&A... I think it says Amaroo...
thats correct but one brother of Terry does not recall that many tree's/scrub at Amaroo ;D
cheers A
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It's Amaroo Park, Easter 1988.
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Well the 557 has a new home!
Encountered two issues. One interesting and one head fu#k!
Interestingly, when you shift the gears, it activates the clutch so you don't need to touch it. Same feel as a postie bike. Not a centrifugal clutch though.
Head fu#k is the fact that its 1 up three down! Oh no!
(http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa474/090bvb/photo-41.jpg)
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Head fu#k is the fact that its 1 up three down! Oh no!
Just rotate the gear lever 180° on the spline. 1 down 3 up, too easy ;D
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or make a heal and toe gear leaver like a postie bike
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I don't know the answer Brad but the old fella looks like a little kid itching to ride his first pushie! I reckon there's a way around that gear lever thing, someone will have an idea....Reece Dengler races a similar bike in the USA so he might know something. Post up on Weedies ;)
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You might have to rig up a pivot system on the gear lever similar to what's on late model road bikes which will reverse the shift pattern.
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You might have to rig up a pivot system on the gear lever similar to what's on late model road bikes which will reverse the shift pattern.
Yeah that would be the answer. I will give it a run first and see if it messes with my head.
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what about this one
http://www.justauto.com.au/justbikes/buy_and_sell/for_sale/JBM3257258?parent_page=%2Fjustbikes%2F&search_type_make=AJS&search_type_model=&search_details_earliest_year=&search_details_latest_year=&search_details_lowest_ccs=&search_details_highest_ccs=&search_details_lowest_price=&search_details_highest_price=&keywords=Keywords&search_category=&search_location_state=&item_position=2
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Maybe wear your boots on the wrong feet and hold your tongue the right way. ;) :D
Great score Brad and I'm sure a man of you talents will sort something out, I do have a bit of an idea of what you're up against, going from a conventional " Chooky " gear change to something completely the opposite.
I rode a KX250 and a Hagon Jawa at the same meeting with quite a few interesting gear changes during a days racing.
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If that is the only bike you'll be riding it won't take long to get used to it.
Comments- If that uses the kick starter for the gear lever like my 250 did, I found that thriugh the rough stuff at
Moorebank the weight of the lever bouncing up and down caused clutch slip, plus if you had your heel pushed up against the shaft it would disengage the gearshift mechanism. If it is that set up I'd modify.
Also I would make a retainer plate to ensure the crankcase seals can't blow out. Mine did and went full song into orbit at 'sorbent hill'
From the look of it it's a factory scrambler model and probably has those mods.
cheers pancho
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If that is the only bike you'll be riding it won't take long to get used to it.
cheers pancho
You don't know me at all then Pancho!
It has a separate gear lever and kickstarter.
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I prefer 2 smokers, unless considering dual purpose or roadies, but
I really do find this one as pretty as a wet tee shirt or a pole dance comp.
57 AJS
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/7a60a6cf-5b2e-4fd2-b996-504902aabf66-xlg_zps69c7ea4b.jpg?t=1358839179) (http://www.justauto.com.au/justbikes/buy_and_sell/for_sale/JBM3257258?parent_page=%2Fjustbikes%2F&search_type_make=AJS&search_type_model=&search_details_earliest_year=&search_details_latest_year=&search_details_lowest_ccs=&search_details_highest_ccs=&search_details_lowest_price=&search_details_highest_price=&keywords=Keywords&search_category=&search_location_state=&item_position=2)
pic is link
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That AJS is sex on wheels
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She is kind of pretty,but whats that tank off, Bazza!
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/DSCN0941-1_zpse540fef2.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/2012-06-08125255_zpsc3b9fe4d.jpg)
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Not sure think pom aftermarket alloy (have seen them for sale Al) 211 with out the indestructable Klub Kevlar sticker looks naked
Dave hows the 211 re build going?
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Now that's more my style, exposed push rod tubes and a big rocker cover, thats real pre60.
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What's the deal with alloy rims in pre 60? Can I use them? Mud catchers?
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i think you have to have steel
i know for fact in pre60
no plastic
no fiberglass
must have mark 1 consentric carb no mikunis
alloy or steel guards
i am building my brothers pre60 ariel dirttracker
have got the words from dave of what to have and what not to have.was looking at a pre65 dot in uk it had non std rims yzpipe made to fit dave said i had to change rims and pipe.
jim
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They have to be mudcatchers
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I will give it a run first and see if it messes with my head.
If you think about it too much it will f*ck you up. I've raced two different gear patterns at the same meeting with a rh Bultaco and lh Maico and Yamaha and a good mate regularly races three bikes with three different shift patterns. He reckons that after a while it all comes naturally, kinda like when before you go to the US you get all sweaty thinking about driving on the other side of the road but when you in fact do it it's piece of piss easy.
What's the deal with alloy rims in pre 60? Can I use them? Mud catchers?
Mudcatchers.....Akront, Borrani, and my personal favourite Takasago off early Japanese bikes. I'm using Borrani on my own pre 60 TriBSA.
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Brad, back in the 90's I raced a 79 CCM in the then pre 80 series down here. I also raced my Mk7 360 with left foot gear change, 1 down four up, CCM had right foot change and 1 up two down. Being too old to comprehend it all in a panic situation I found it easier when braking was needed to jump on both sides, get set up entering the corner then change to the gear needed to exit the corner. Certainly not text book but worked well for me ;D
Stan.
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They have to be mudcatchers
Thanks Paul. Can you buy them new?
Brad, back in the 90's I raced a 79 CCM in the then pre 80 series down here. I also raced my Mk7 360 with left foot gear change, 1 down four up, CCM had right foot change and 1 up two down. Being too old to comprehend it all in a panic situation I found it easier when braking was needed to jump on both sides, get set up entering the corner then change to the gear needed to exit the corner. Certainly not text book but worked well for me ;D
Stan.
I will give it a run first and see if it messes with my head.
If you think about it too much it will f*ck you up. I've raced two different gear patterns at the same meeting with a rh Bultaco and lh Maico and Yamaha and a good mate regularly races three bikes with three different shift patterns. He reckons that after a while it all comes naturally, kinda like when before you go to the US you get all sweaty thinking about driving on the other side of the road but when you in fact do it it's piece of piss easy.
What's the deal with alloy rims in pre 60? Can I use them? Mud catchers?
Mudcatchers.....Akront, Borrani, and my personal favourite Takasago off early Japanese bikes. I'm using Borrani on my own pre 60 TriBSA.
I realised I have been riding a trike around the paddock which is all down. I'm over thinking it for sure. Right hand gear change on a 2 stroke does my head in as I had to sell the Monty GP I had for that reason.
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They have to be mudcatchers
Thanks Paul. Can you buy them new?
Both Titmans and Ashes said they could get them in, not cheap though. I found some s/h ones to polish up
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in MOMs from years gone bye were not the only acceptable rims for the Pre-60 class steel ? Terry..
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in MOMs from years gone bye were not the only acceptable rims for the Pre-60 class steel ? Terry..
true.but if bike owner wants mudcatchers they have got to be alloy.i believe they dont make steel mudcatchers.not seen them anyway. :)
cheers us2
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Here's a classic pre 60 bike that's been around the vintage scene since day one. The bike is the ex Hedley Gunter TriBSA that Hedley brought out when the family migrated from the UK. Terry, Adrian and later Anthony all learned the motocross trade on this old banger. When photographed at Nepean in '93 it was owned by Phil Barrett but it's now a part of the Edgar Phipps collection. He took it to CD9 and we're hoping he brings it to the Classic Nats in Canberra later in the year.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/2013-02-16_71_zpsdb78ad56.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/2013-02-16_72_zps67fb93cd.jpg)
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Will that be how you're hoping yours will finish up Firko? Very classic look to it
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Tony the above TriBSA is built in the heavyweight traditional manner using a BSA Goldstar frame and 500cc pre unit Triumph motor, Norton forks, BSA wheels and Goldy Lyta alloy tank. I found this little C15 trials bike for sale on eBay a while ago and it planted the seed me that I might be able to build a slightly more butch scrambles version of it which would be potentially much lighter than the traditional TriBSA. The engine in the bike is a 350 but it proves the point that the unit Trumpy fits in the hole where the anemic little 250 once resided. I'm using a 1959 BSA C15/250 frame, 1959 Triumph T100 unit motor, Norton forks, BSA Goldstar front wheel, Harley Davidson Sportster rear wheel, Borrani mudcatcher rims, BSA B44GP tank and replica seat.....all pre 60 legal.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/C15TRI2-1_zps02e09b6c.jpg)
If you can imagine the below bike with a Triumph 500 unit motor, that's pretty much what it'll hopefully look like.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/bsa250dirt_zps95cb24a6.jpg)
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A lot of these pre-60 bikes seem to wearing 35mm Ceriani front ends.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/bsa250dirt_zps5871aa1d.jpg?t=1361903732)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/MONARK_600_zps87c95ef0.jpg?t=1361903885)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/TRIBSA_zps83c9ca9c.jpg?t=1361904050)
Does anyone know if the same Ceriani style in the 32mm size also legal for pre-60?
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/2013-02-27071440_zps4436facb.jpg?t=1361909760)
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There shouldn`t be a problem, as it states in the GCR the commission and scrutineers will use the GCR components a guide line, In a nut shell, they don`t know, and they are guessing, and it will
depend on the person on the day, those forks look period, and the should be aloud to be used.
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(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/ozmaico/1956-Maico20250-Juha2_zps55907902.jpg)
(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/ozmaico/1956-Maico20250-Juha_zps5604573d.jpg)
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Mick those bikes you posted, while being pre 60 eligible are probably raced in the pre 65 class in the UK where Ceriani's are legit (as they are here). I think that it's been deduced by those in authority that 35mm Ceriani motocross forks didn't hit the scene until the early to mid sixties so they can't be used in pre 60. The Norton Roadholder forks were the best hydraulic telescopic forks you could get in the fifties so that's why they were used by almost everyone. If someone can prove that 35mm motocross Ceriani's were available in 1959 I'll be more than happy to use them. I could possibly use my leading link Swenco forks too, the only thing stopping me is their 1960's manufacture.
Jonesy's building a Monark GP similar to the blue bike Mick posted. He's building it in 1959 spec and after some research discovered that the factory used Norton Roadholders right up until 1961 when Cerianis became the choice. That would seem to back the argument that Cerianis weren't around prior to 1960.
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Cheers, I knew you would give me an answer I could depend upon Firko, and explain it as well.
I cannot afford to waste any money or time on miss-purchase.
Thank you :)
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If you want unusual, and probably pretty slow, there is a Francis Barnett - Villiers powered on Ebay
(you might want to make certain its pre60 also)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Francis-Barnett-Motorcycle-circa-1959-/300868125992?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item460d234528
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Great Aussie racer Tim Gibbes with the JAWA 250 he rode for a bronze in the 1957 ISDT.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/MCSPORT-0608171137441_zpsb90feac0.jpg)
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That FB/Villiers on ebay looks a bit of a bitza -probably an 8E villiers/4speed box(that gearbox is the best bit). Frame could be FB. Engine & frame probably 1956/58 vintage. Appear to have early Japanese front forks, wheels( 60s). Who knows what else. The only parts worth keeping are the frame and Gearbox(hardest part to get).
Mike
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Maico made a 250 motocrosser in 1959, go on google images, probably impossible to find
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Maico pre 60 250 got sold on ebay this week.