OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: firko on December 17, 2012, 03:59:22 pm
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As much as I dislike discussing politics or divisive social issues on this, a forum dedicated to all things to do with old dirt bikes, I couldn't resist posting the following email I received from god knows who this morning. How I got on this lunatics mailing list is a mystery to me. If it wasn't dealing with such a sad and shocking subject this would be so funny but as it is, it's a very scary indication that there are some very weird and frightening conspiracy nutters out there. The American constitution is a great document but the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms has had some tragic consequences in history. Sadly many Americans just can't understand why most other first world countries have firearm restrictions, even when confronted with the fact that there are 9 deaths per 100,000 of population while the UK has 0.25 NZ 0.26 and Australia 1.05. Last year there were 9,369 firearm related murders in the USA putting them #4 on the death number list (South Africa is #1 with 31,918) while NZ has 10 (42) Australia 59 (25) and the UK 14 (39). When will some brave government convince the US people that this is madness?
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The primary-school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, approximately 45 miles from the Colt Arms Factory, is just another one in the long line of government psyops designed to persuade the public to allow the government to take away their guns, and their means to defend themselves against the government and the banksters that the politicians really serve.
The small children murders are designed to create hysterical emotions in women to get them to demand that guns are banned. If that doesn’t work they will continue with their evil agenda with worse and worse atrocities on younger children, until they get their way and disarm the people, so that they cannot fight back against government tyranny.
Newtown is the U.S.A.’s Dunblane, which was orchestrated in Scotland in 1996 by the British establishment, to whip up hysteria in order to ban all handguns from the U.K. It was a follow-up to the Hungerford Massacre in England in 1987, which was carried out by mind-controlled Michael Ryan, who then shot himself so he could not be questioned, and it was used to ban semi-automatic rifles and shotguns.
It’s always the same people behind it – the gun-grabbers who want the people to be defenceless against the gun-grabbers’ employers – the banksters who own all of the politicians. They get their politicians to pass legislation for them, in order to remove the people’s freedoms and means of defending themselves, and enslave them in a draconian police-state, under a mountain of debt, and then exterminate the useless-eaters.
The Dunblane massacre was supposedly carried out by Thomas Hamilton, who was a paedophile and procurer of children, for a high level paedophile ring involving senior members of the Tony Blair Labour-Party shadow-cabinet and others. The massacre served two purposes, it achieved their desired handgun-ban and killed the abused children, so they could not be witnesses against the elite-paedophiles. They then had the findings of the inquiry sealed for 100 years, which is proof of the above.
Like Newtown there were two shooters, Hamilton and a hit-man who shot Hamilton and made it look like Hamilton committed suicide after shooting 16 children, so that he couldn’t be questioned. Hamilton was found in the school gymnasium slumped against a wall and still gurgling, when an off-duty policeman PC Grant McCutcheon entered the gym and saw two semi-automatic pistols, one on either side of Hamilton’s body.
The autopsy revealed that Hamilton was killed with a .38 revolver. These people always slip-up with their crimes. There was no .38 revolver for him to have shot himself with. Thus, there was a second shooter who killed Hamilton.
Similarly, the first reports from Newtown were of two shooters, just like mind-controlled James Holmes in the Denver Batman Cinema massacre, the story then quickly changes to just one.
Columbine was similar, in that a team of shooters in black outfits were seen there and the two accused were on mind-altering prescription-drugs.
Wake up and see the pattern and their modus operandi and don’t fall for it. Never let them take your guns, except from your cold dead hands.
All of these are staged events to whip-up hysterical public support for banning the people from having guns. It works the same in every country – Hungerford in England, Dunblane in Scotland, Port Arthur in Australia and the list in America is endless, because of the Second Amendment and the people having a pro-gun culture. That makes it much more difficult to break the Americans’ love of guns and the Second Amendment, which was put in place to protect the people from the government.
Gun bans work well for tyrants. They worked well for Hitler, Stalin and Chairman Mao, to name just three.
If you want to stop these massacres, wake-up and get rid of the banksters, their puppet-politicians and all gun-grabbers; arm teachers and ban gun-free zones.
>From one who can see the pattern and hopes to enable you to see it too.
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Holy shit!
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You wonder why their country is so screwed up with free thinkers like that ::) ::)
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I heard on the radio this morning that there are 84 gun-related deaths in the U.S. EVERY DAY! :o
Can that be right?????
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I heard on the radio this morning that there are 84 gun-related deaths in the U.S. EVERY DAY! :o
Can that be right?????
That would be a very conservative estimate T :(
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Only pattern there is while ever nutcases like the author has a gun there will be gun related deaths. Some stat came to light that amounst of gun owners in the US the gun was likely to be used against a family member was greater than 50%. What is really odd is the insistance that teachers and whoever else have a gun, presumably so they can have some sort of a Diehard syle shootout should more innocent people need to be killed or wounded. I know what a hippster is but jury is out on what a 'bankster' actualy is.
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Very sad,having daughters of similar ages I can't imagine the grief the parents are feeling.
Whilst I really like a lot about the US the whole right to bare arms is a crock.
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What about the other shooting ? In a Portland mall a mask gunman shot 2 people and was reloading his weapon when a shopper took aim at him with his own weapon.No more people were killed.
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If the president of USA banned all guns, he may fare for his own life, their are some nutter out their, Barrack O`barma needs to make a stance on this.
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Cast your mind back to 1996 .....and think about Firkos posted link.
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What about the other shooting ? In a Portland mall a mask gunman shot 2 people and was reloading his weapon when a shopper took aim at him with his own weapon.No more people were killed.
Chickens and eggs!!!
Like any addict, you have to admit there is a problem before anything will change...
Just stop for a moment and put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose child attended school in Newtown... take that child into your arms, look into his eyes and try to explain what happened and tell him why adults need guns. Then take that child into your arms when he wakes up screaming in the middle of the night and again tell him why adults need guns... and then all the self serving, piss weak excuses will be just that... self serving and piss weak. You might be able to rationalise the tragedy and forget, but that child will live with it everyday of his life.
America needs to stand-up, stop hiding behind a distorted interpretation the 2nd amendment and take peaceful control of their country for the sake of their children and grand children. I wonder do they have the guts, because this problem won't be solved with more guns.
I hope and pray that the average American does what they know to be right. Damn the NRA and their selfserving politics.
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That is one of sadest things that could possibly happen.
Some of those poor little buggers were shot up to 15 times, nothing could explain it.
RIP little souls. :'(
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http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/palies1.htm
http://www.kerryhay.spiderweb.com.au/bryant.html
More BS
Unreal that death of innocents is exploited like this but its not new check out the links on port Arthur.
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As far as I am concerned you can never stop the NUTCASES from doing this kind of thing.
If they cant get their hands on a gun they will use some other means!
Its time to stop making excuses for bad behavoir, stop lying to people and telling them they are special etc just so they don't get sore feelings. Reopen the mental institutions and put these fruit loops in them.
In this country all thr honest people handed in their guns while all the crooks and weirdos kept em' >:(
Get back to punishment fitting the crime and you may get the law working.
The authorities keep letting people have "one more chance" and a lot of thr time they use that chance to harm somebody.
We have created a generation of emotional pansies that even as adults can't handle being told NO. ???
While we're at it bring back Capital Punishment!
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Ban the guns.
Lock up the lunatics that claim they have to have semi-automatic weapons so as they can sleep at night.
Change the fuggin' constitution.
It's a hellava lot harder to kill en-mass with knife than it is with an AR >:(
Americans kill more Americans than any fuggin' terrorists do.
Get all the innocents out the country and just let the gun nuts and red-necks slay each other!
It's just insane........ ???
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I am usually across major events and crimes, i like to be fully informed and get as much information as I can about this kind of stuff BUT this particular event and it's details I haven't wanted to know.
I have found out only what I cannot shield myself from knowing due to media saturation, its simply too sad, too cruel, too horrendous and lacks the ability to ever be made sense of.
I just choose not to know in this case, the more you think about it the more you'll be enraged and possibly to the point of wanting to be the man to carry out exactly the same action on the perpetrator. This of course in a way would be maintaining the cycle of hatred and rage that caused this to occur In the first place, it's best to not think a whole lot about and know that there should be no guilt associated with not wanting to.
Nothing we/you say, think, feel or do will change what has happened, If you really want to make a difference do the only thing in your power to do - spend and extra hour or so with your kids/child this week, read and extra book to them, do something you usually "don't have the time for", hug a little tighter, hold a little closer. Put your emotions into something that will help make your kids grow into upstanding people that will only ever do good in the world, more of the world did this then the breeding of violence would cease. Because as we all know violence is not scientifically identified gene, it is bred into people in every circumstance it's found! RIP innocent angels.
NOW LET'S START TALKIN OL BIKES AGAIN!! ;D
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I had to think whether I would comment on this or not . As an ex special forces member then a close protection specialist after my military sevice I agree with some people not being able to carry arms . The nutters that create these mass killings should never have passed any firearm test . How these people get through the system is due to our laws being too mamby pamby ( a person has rights you can't check if he/she has a mental illnes ) bull shit . If you are applying for a firearms license you should have a thorough check on your history . Iain
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I had to think whether I would comment on this or not . As an ex special forces member then a close protection specialist after my military sevice I agree with some people not being able to carry arms . The nutters that create these mass killings should never have passed any firearm test . How these people get through the system is due to our laws being too mamby pamby ( a person has rights you can't check if he/she has a mental illnes ) bull shit . If you are applying for a firearms license you should have a thorough check on your history . Iain
I got my license some 10 years ago after a full police check safety check etc. if I get a avo against me or go for a rest at the local mental institution license gone.
I think the Aussie laws are great post port Arthur.
I cannot see a need for full auto weapons like in the US.
The issue here is not with licensed owners but the crooks.
No way to stop them without fundamental change at law and the right for reabilitation
I agree with Iain 100%
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As far as I am concerned you can never stop the NUTCASES from doing this kind of thing.
If they cant get their hands on a gun they will use some other means!
Yes you can, with the tough gun laws we have here there has thankfully been no repeats of Port Arthur. By what othe means can someone with NO technical knowledge kill dozens of kids at school?
A gun has NO other use except to kill. A gun tool that allows these nutters to achieve instant notoriety for all the wrong reasons
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Cast your mind back to 1996 .....and think about Firkos posted link.
What do you mean?
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When I was a young lad, I use to go duck hunting never shot a duck, I always missed, shot a couple of rabbits unit my uncle told me you don`t need guns to shoot a rabbit or quail, so he took me hunting on a tractor and a large spot light, that night we could rabbits and quail. my guns where double barrel Maroka, single shot Bykle, and 22 shiltz rifle, when my kids came along a sold the lot, I didn`t won`t any guns in my house, really the only time I enjoyed shooting was clay targets at field and game. My answer is the USA Gun Laws, Banned them.
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Tony 84 deaths by gun each day, but they left out the startling facts that over 32,000 people died last year by motor vehicle deaths... thats 87 per day.
Mainline .... you make up your own mind. Firko planted the seed.
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Just to put a different spin on this I'd like to share my point as a school teacher. Have taught for 35 years, 16 years as a Principal in Victoria, Queensland and Fiji. Over my time in rural and metro schools I have had a sniper fire bullets into a primary playground at Rangebank in Victoria, numerous bomb threats, a cross bow fired in a Mackay school and been involved in a fight at Broadmeadows Special School Carols night asking drunken parents to leave. Have 2 fellow Principals not return after physical attacks, one hit by a phone and the other was a female hit by a enraged father because his son was asked to no longer bring 2litre bottles of coke for lunch. Yes, I work in the state system which is slowly declining into an abyss as Governments point score but in reality terms are withdrawing fiscal support. This is in every state of Australia . We spend much time practising code blacks/ intruder lockdowns but when it happens in Australia( not if but when ) it will be devastating as most of our schools use a spread out model which makes protection and communication very difficult. At the moment the Gonski Review has suggested various funding changes to schools but I doubt even with a Labor Govt much will come to fruition. All of our school improvement agendas are taken from the New York or Uk models that a in decay. We were a World leader in the 60-80s but successive govts have overlooked this fact. Hopefully you are rich enough to have your kids or grand kids attend Private schools which are better for behaviour but bring about a lot of other issues to deal with. Thought I was a poor parent with kids as a high school teacher , a nurse and a mental health nurse. Good jobs but nowadays always in the public firing line
However my daughter told me yesterday of 2 students who rang just after midnight so overjoyed with her help in tutoring them to achieve their Year 12 results beyond their expectations that will get them into Uni courses they had as first preferences. This does refocus me as to why I have stayed.
I deal with some poor teaching methodology but have yet to come across a teacher whose heart wasn't in the right place. Generally only those with a family member, a spouse etc know how much they put into their job. Media unfortunately gets to win all the time, they will acknowledge the deserved bravery of those in the USA at the moment but then unmercilessly heap dirt on the unamed majority for story content re NAPLAN or any other 2 bob story. I went to school for good mates, lunchtime games and some of those quirky enjoyable activities that teaches did, don't think kids are getting the same deal these days.
Enough of my rant, back to all things vmx and classic dirt track. Anyone have a set of jawa speedway bike front fork springs?
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What about the other shooting ? In a Portland mall a mask gunman shot 2 people and was reloading his weapon when a shopper took aim at him with his own weapon.No more people were killed.
Chickens and eggs!!!
Like any addict, you have to admit there is a problem before anything will change...
Just stop for a moment and put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose child attended school in Newtown... take that child into your arms, look into his eyes and try to explain what happened and tell him why adults need guns. Then take that child into your arms when he wakes up screaming in the middle of the night and again tell him why adults need guns... and then all the self serving, piss weak excuses will be just that... self serving and piss weak. You might be able to rationalise the tragedy and forget, but that child will live with it everyday of his life.
Yes its tragic , the world is full of evil,innocent people are killed everyday .I dont differentiate between this tragedy and all the defenseless people,women and children,that are killed by Drone strikes or Mexican drug cartels that are armed with weapons from the US or by a sniper in a helicopter.Someone is rationalizing aren't they?
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Funny little buggers, Wasp, I'll measure them up when I get back home and drop you a pm, ta
Rosco
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Yeah, I think we've made our points. My main deal was showing the outrageous claims by my email correspondent, how frightening it is to know that there are people out there just like him. I lived in the US for nearly seven years and still maintain many friendships from that time. I've also got to know some terrific Yanks through our VMX hobby and can say with my hand on my heart that 99% of the Americans I've known and loved have been good honest people with little or no interest in guns. I think that lunatic rednecks and the NRA gun lobby represent a much smaller percentage of the population than we'd think by what we see, hear and read about America.
I feel so much for the parents of those little kids it hurts................now, can we get back to old bikes and laying shit on Dave? ;D ;D
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i've got a 6yo daughter in grade 1, with all the cover up's going on in schools here in SA and watching stories like this one plus all the others make's one think how easily life can be destroyed and there's nothing really you can do about it. on 7:30 someone claimed that this year alone 2million guns were sold in the US, i think it's too late for them to ban guns. how many cops would end up in shoot outs trying to enforce that law?
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HA, HA, Firko, love your humor. ;D
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Such a tragedy, that could be avoided :(:(
RIP TO ALL LIVES THAT WERE TRAGICALLY TAKEN!!!!
Our thought are with you and your families at this time.
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The Yanks have a real problem with gun control.
The problem is that they don't trust their government and with good reason .
Those old enough to remember will recall the National Guard being ordered to shoot University demonstrators.
Yep a real problem when your own government starts shooting you.
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(http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/Lozza85_2007/375480_567603296599043_592402740_n_zpsa66061ad.png)
Malcom Turnbull crueling his chances to be PM.
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Malcom cruelled his chances back when he couldn't figure out what he stood for and what party he supported.
He might be lucky with the Auzzie short term memory loss.
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The Yanks have a real problem with gun control.
The problem is that they don't trust their government and with good reason .
Those old enough to remember will recall the National Guard being ordered to shoot University demonstrators.
Yep a real problem when your own government starts shooting you.
That is most certainly one of the over-riding issues.
I used to have several guns when I was in the states. I had target rifles, hand guns and shotguns - however they were all for target use and being where I could have been drafted they were to help me keep my eye in so that I could maintain my grading earned when doing ROTC at school.
While I am of the personal belief that banning guns is just too big of a job I am strongly opposed to the ability of a private person to buy/own a sniper rifle (M21, M50, Barrett 50cal etc) and also any fully automatic weapon. Hell, with modern technology there is little need for semi-automatic weapons for hunting either.
When it comes to the root cause - I blame the free market. The same free market that enables 13-17 yr old kids to buy alcohol and drink themselves senseless week after week as happens here in NZ, over in Oz and also stateside. Gun laws in America need to be vastly changed and the most important change is to shut down a lot of the shady type gun shops and to enact a law that REQUIRES a 48 hour wait period before collecting a weapon purchase to allow more thorough checks to be done.
However, to stop a lot of the crap that is happening we really need to go back to the family group. In just about every case that happens we hear that friends and family thought the person was a bit weird and a lot of the time knew the people were borderline psycotic - those people NEED to start speaking up.
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Banning guns will just open up the market for illegal guns. So far prohibition hasn't proven itself to work.
I lay the bigger blame on society, screaming out for the banning of guns wont fix a society that has a festering wound.
All those producers of violent movies and video games who care more about profit margins than any moral obligation to the society we live in have some to answer for. Life emulates art.
I grew up in a era of war and western movies, but there was no graphic violence. There was a clear line of right and wrong. I saw an interview with Clint Eastwood where he mentioned that a director asked John Wayne to shoot some one in the back. JW flat refused to do it, and the director said "Well Clint would do it" JW replied with "That kid will do anything". The point is there was always a strong moral content with a lot of the old shows, whereas today the most brutal, cold hearted and violent character is the hero, whether he's the good guy or the bad guy is irrelavant. The most popular video games are all violent, and brutally so. And this is reflected now in society. Young bloke's don't have a bit of a fist fight and who ever gets knocked down has lost and then buy each other beers. They jump some one and beat him half or in some cases to death because they are emulating what they watch.
They will cut a love scene out of a movie but will show a bloke getting his throat cut with a knife. Seriously, do we need to see that. Imagine children growing up with that and getting conditioned to it. Society needs to police itself better. Another problem is the loss of community, and with that, people become disenfranchised. We interact with each other less and less and this is a perfect example here, there's no face to face as social media takes over and our lives are busier and busier as we tear around trying to pay for it all.
I think banning guns is the small picture. We should start at the top and ban all nuclear weapons first, then all chemical and biological weapons, then all military weapons and work our way down. It will be much easier to convince people to give up their guns if the government surrenders theirs first. Lead by example.
I wonder how many innocent children were killed in the war against terroism?
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Beautifully put ;)
It worries me what sort of society my 3 young kids are going to have to grow up in.
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As a person who has been going to the States for over 30 years and lived Fulltime and part time for another 13 years I felt I had to send this email from my x policeman mate
to all the Australian News Papers. and after all the fallout and the horrendous tragedy of the Newtown Massacre, and now the subsequent # 1 stories of Gun controls,
please read the below perspective from a California 35 Year Retired Police Veteran, his thoughts also needs to be told and shared, to present a level field and not knee –jerk reaction to Guns,
also take note of the bottom link to the Seven Myths and Profile of a Mass Murderer.
Unspeakable.
What could have driven Adam Lanza to force his way into an elementary school and do what he did? Everyone in this Country, from our president on down, wept looking at the faces of six year-old children who were butchered by this loner.
Now comes the inevitable cry to "do something meaningful" to prevent further school carnage. This of course means somehow changing the U.S. Constitution to amend this Country's firearms laws. "The NRA runs the Country, and this has to change".
Before we jump head-long in to irreversible change to a fundamental right, we need to examine the facts, not regulate out of hysteria.
According to CBS news, there have been eighty-eight persons killed on school campus's in America in the last 20 years. While we all look at the faces of those helpless victims of Lansa's warped outrage and vow to never let that happen again, remember that statistically the most dangerous part of a child's school day is the ride to and from school in Mom's car.
Tens of thousands of schools, millions of school children, eight-eight deaths.
Eighty-eight people. Less then the highway fatality rate of a typical New Years eve weekend in California.
Don't misunderstand what I'm trying to point out here, every one of those eighty-eight lives was precious and needlessly wasted, but do the figures however horrific speak to an epidemic of gun violence when you recall there are three hundred million guns in this Country that aren't being used to murder school children? Is President Obama weeping at the thought of school kids killed by drunk drivers and demanding a "change" to laws regulating alcohol consumption?
A gun is a tool. In the wrong hands it can be a tool of destruction. A tool like the two airliners flown into the World Trade Center to kill three thousand Americans on 9/11.
We all cried that day too, but no one demanded that commercial aviation avoid large population centers!
Let's get back to the NRA. I'm a retired police officer with 35 years experience on the tough streets of a large Bay Area city. I have carried a firearm day and night all those years, and no, I don't think the NRA represents the majority of clear-thinking Americans when the NRA objects to the possession of "Cop Killer" bullets or machine guns. The NRA can be just as hysterical as an "anything goes" proponent as the anti-gun faction on the other side of the argument. Just like most things in life, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of this debate.
It's interesting to note that one of the first states to have experienced a campus murder spree was Stockton, California. California has nearly one thousand laws on the books regulating or banning firearm possession and those laws and rules did nothing to prevent that murder spree. All additional laws and regulations do is allow a prosecutor to add an additional charge post-incident. No one who is of the mindset of Adam Lanza is going to comply with firearms restrictions. It's a worn-out adage, but "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". Note that not one single Oakland "gang banger" turned-in his Uzi during last weekends firearm-surrender program in the East Bay. Instead three hundred law abiding citizens gave up their guns for the greater good. What was accomplished? A few people felt better about themselves but not a single life is going to be saved by that program. The outlaws still have their guns!
Rather than banning the tool, its time we recognized when that high school loner is acting stranger than usual. Where are all the neighbors who report "I knew that guy was weird" when interviewed after a mass shooting. Why didn't they realize he was acting weird before he stole his mother's guns and massacred a first grade class of children?
My suggestion is this; take a step back and a deep breath, don't regulate out of hysteria, and tell someone in charge when that loner is acting strangely.
http://blog.oup.com/2012/09/seven-myths-of-mass-murder/
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Rosco that was very interesting (7 myths )
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Rather odd t way a copper talks about drink driving, one would assume the US has similar drink driving laws to ours, all aimed at preventing actions which are highly likely innocent people going about their daily business to get injured or killed. You can consume all the alcohol you want but not get in a vehicle and drive while under the influence(not even a horse). That's what the law is about again rather odd a copper doesn't understand that.
Society ain't to blame nor a video games, death metal or the internet. Anti-gun lobby deosn't have celebrity endorsments and millions upon millions of dollars poured into mostly Republican politicians to influence decisions.
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Rather odd t way a copper talks about drink driving, one would assume the US has similar drink driving laws to ours, all aimed at preventing actions which are highly likely innocent people going about their daily business to get injured or killed. You can consume all the alcohol you want but not get in a vehicle and drive while under the influence(not even a horse). That's what the law is about again rather odd a copper doesn't understand that.
Society ain't to blame nor a video games, death metal or the internet. Anti-gun lobby deosn't have celebrity endorsments and millions upon millions of dollars poured into mostly Republican politicians to influence decisions.
The U.S. doesn't have RBT, and they can't pull you over without due cause. So a driver has to be basically weaving down the road to be pulled over for a sobriety test. If he fails then he has to get a blood alcohol test. But even with the drink driving laws, it doesn't stop people from doing it. Just like banning drugs doesn't stop people from using them, and banning guns wont stop people from owning them.
I do believe in tighter regulations, I think a contributing factor in the U.S. is that they leave their guns lying around. I worked it Texas and all my co workers had a handgun in their draw at work. No big deal except for one bloke who had a prescription abuse problem, was constantly stressed and had had a run in with me. He shouldn't have had a gun. The point there is that I had access to handguns, they didn't take them home, so on their RDO's I could of helped myself. It would of ended up like a missing pen scenario.
But anyway if they kept them locked in safes it might slow things up a bit. Some states have strict gun laws, some you can rock up at Kmart show your state drivers license and walk out with a handgun.
At the end of the day I'm just a keyboard speculator like everyones else and don't know the answers I can only throw opinions around.
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Only sort of related to this topic (and associated directions that the conversation has taken..)
But here's an extract from an email I recieved this week from a friend of mine from New Jersey. Talking about Hurricane Sandy, the aftermath of Sandy, and peripherally Newtown..
With Sandy, I must state that we were one of the SUPER lucky ones.
All around us, even on the same street, people were hammered. Tree damage, water damage, loss of power of weeks.....total loss of houses, etc, etc.
My wife and I sat around cooking, watching TV, looking at the Internet, and just taking it all in.
I have two generators and lent one out to my brother, and one to my wife's relatives.
The BIG issue was that all around us the local gas stations were without power and could not pump fuel from their tanks. Notice I said local. Drive and hour or so in any direction but East, and buy as much as you need.
People were sitting in line for up to six hours and more. Starting fist fights, pulling knives and guns!!!
I drove two hours south to ride all day, brought four 5 gallon fuel cans and never waited in line once.
I told my wife we need to buy a gun (please note with the mass killings just North of me, in a town I know very well as my sister had lived there for years raising her children, I am not being cute).
People are crazy!
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Lozza , dont assume anything, did you not read what he said , the Police need more help with the laws on Alchol and Drink Driving.
And OBAMA supreme comander for another 4 urking years can step up or not step up to the plate on this issue, and dont get me started on US politics.
I cant tell you first hand my mate after 35 years he has seen more than you and all in the results of to much and behind the wheel.
The Police always need help to Serve and Protect their Communities, their Drink Drive laws in the US, are no where near as tough as ours.
As for the republicans getting the majority of millions to influenece their decision your dreaming, Politics on both sides are made up of behind close doors and long lunches and best buddies palm greasing , since the Romans.
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Don't want to get into the Gun Control Argument, but I don't see the problem with Gun Control in the USA. I do see a problem with mentally ill people, and IF I wanted to do some so called Mass Destruction which is what all of the Liberal Media is calling this small town shooting, it would be easier to do with some home made explosive devices, remote cell phone detonators and or simple Box Cutters and Hostages like what happened with the New York Twin Towers!
You can't even begin to compare numbers of people killed with other countries until you resolve the differences in population and population density. And then you need to compare with other methods of death and murder both on purpose and accidental. We have more people accidentally killed cleaning guns in the USA than they do in both of your countries Down Under from purposeful shootings! The entire country of Australia has around 21 million people. Los Angeles County (LA and suburbs) has almost 1/2 that in one relatively small area at around 10 million people.
Swiss
Sorry, grew up with the free choice and use of guns, served and trained in how to use them by the Military and I don't go around the neighborhood shooting people even if they sometimes piss me off! Isn't it the Swiss that REQUIRE ALL of their citizens to keep a weapon in their house at all times? And Military service? I don't hear about all of their gun problems!
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I don't hear about all of their gun problems!
Because they have a balance of regulation and inforcement that goes along with gun ownership. It is not a right, it is an active and ongoing responsibility.
Rationalise it however you want, but the facts speak for themselves - 38000 deaths each year. One day America and its individual citizens will acknowledge the problem and be prepared to make some sacrifices* be part of the solution. Until then innocent lives will continue to be lost.
The world wishes you good luck...
*i.e. no you don't need to get a gun as a gift for taking out a bank loan. And no the average citizen doesn't need a semi-automatic assault rifle [what next bazookers?]. excetera, excetera, excetera...
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I don't hear about all of their gun problems!
Because they have a balance of regulation and inforcement that goes along with gun ownership. It is not a right, it is an active and ongoing responsibility.
Rationalise it however you want, but the facts speak for themselves - 38000 deaths each year. One day America and its individual citizens will acknowledge the problem and be prepared to make some sacrifices* be part of the solution. Until then innocent lives will continue to be lost.
The world wishes you good luck...
a balance of regulation and enforcement that goes with gun ownership - too easy !
The world wishes good luck to anyone taking guns off Americans
especially the current admin in the wake of what they are doing.
You forget why Jefferson and the founding fathers included the second ammendment ,and the first for that matter in the constitution in the first place.
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a balance of regulation and enforcement that goes with gun ownership - too easy !
The world wishes good luck to anyone taking guns off Americans
especially the current admin in the wake of what they are doing.
You forget why Jefferson and the founding fathers included the second ammendment ,and the first for that matter in the constitution in the first place.
Well I guess you are screwed then...
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a balance of regulation and enforcement that goes with gun ownership - too easy !
The world wishes good luck to anyone taking guns off Americans
especially the current admin in the wake of what they are doing.
You forget why Jefferson and the founding fathers included the second ammendment ,and the first for that matter in the constitution in the first place.
Well I guess you are screwed then...
bad guess
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I recently settled in the USA, have 2 small children in school, no fences, all is so nice and sweet, green lawns and play grounds...
In the past week, I have contemplated options from getting a gun, quitting my job to do homeschooling or leaving the country altogether. This is just plain lunacy. In the end I will stay and not give in to the fear.
The rate of murders by gunshot is 200 (two hundred) times higher in the US than in the UK. Yes the real problem is guns, plain simple.
There are 300 million (three hundred million) guns in private hands in the USA. Anybody can buy an unregistered gun from anybody with no checks at all from a garage sale.
The second amendment was supposed to help protect people, it ended up achieving the exact opposite. Freedom is a privilege disguised as a right that is being abused by irresponsible idiots. Yes you can live a free happy safe life without a machine gun.
I have grown up with dozens of guns, including military grade stuff, grenades and some more crazy items, I am reasonably trained (you know, dismantle-assemble the gun blindfolded within 30s kind of gig), I have killed countless animals. Then I almost killed myself with a .22. That was the end of the madness for me, the wake up call. No it does not only happen to others...
I really do not see the need to have a gun in my home, even with the madness going around : it would simply make my kids much more unsafe (the data is compelling). The Newtown mad boy first shot his own mother with her own gun, point proven. A few weeks ago in Pennsylvania some sad guy shot and killed his own 7 year old son coming out of the gun shop, an accident. How many more innocents have to fall?
Guns were invented to kill, this is what they do, no surprise. Pretending the contrary is a sign of mental disorder, a good reason to stay away from guns. And for those for whom target shooting is a life necessity, try darts.
Putting armed guards in schools will not work, Columbine proved that, sorely. The NRA's address today was pathetic, irresponsible. They failed to grab the opportunity for true leadership and showed that they really are what they are accused of being. Indulging their self serving nerdy interests in the name of freedom and cautioning the price to pay for it, while pointing the finger at everything else but guns. This was quite simply shocking and frankly incompetent: they proved their ineptitude (which is probably a good thing as they have almost certainly damaged their cause). But overall, shame on them.
Shame on the politicians to not have had the balls to address this earlier and even let the ban on semi-automatic weapons expire. Look at the timetable of mass shootings in the US: the acceleration of such incidents is frightening: the next one should happen within less than 6 months. The scenario is now well known: smart kid who cant cope with life (and yes our society is great at producing lots of these...), puts hands on guns (because they are just there), goes out seeking futile revenge and exit with a big bang, taking as many with him as he can for maximum media effect (oh Fox News, how much you love this!).
I am very impressed with the way Australia has handled the problem. Respect! May be time to look for a job there... I promise I'll bring the C&J bikes with me ;)
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Copy and Paste the below link and check those Stats Out.
http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2012/12/17/gun-control-stats-compare-the-ten-big-killers-in-the-us/
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These stats will make the folks from Tucson, Columbine, Newtown, Virginia Tech feel so much better. Wonderful insights.
Add to these the 15,000 suicides by gunshot, and the 70,000 wounded but not killed.
Even without these 2 additional numbers, the rate is 400 times higher than in the UK (and there certainly are as many crazies/100 Brits as there are crazies/100 Yanks: the difference is the availability of guns).
Today, 3 more dead in Pennsylvania (+ the killer) and 2 in Alabama (nightclub argument apparently, go figure who was the good guy bad the bad guy...), will probably reach the usual 34 daily tally.
What a waste.
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I recently settled in the USA, have 2 small children in school, no fences, all is so nice and sweet, green lawns and play grounds...
In the past week, I have contemplated options from getting a gun, quitting my job to do homeschooling or leaving the country altogether. This is just plain lunacy. In the end I will stay and not give in to the fear.
The rate of murders by gunshot is 200 (two hundred) times higher in the US than in the UK. Yes the real problem is guns, plain simple.
There are 300 million (three hundred million) guns in private hands in the USA. Anybody can buy an unregistered gun from anybody with no checks at all from a garage sale.
The second amendment was supposed to help protect people, it ended up achieving the exact opposite. Freedom is a privilege disguised as a right that is being abused by irresponsible idiots. Yes you can live a free happy safe life without a machine gun.
I have grown up with dozens of guns, including military grade stuff, grenades and some more crazy items, I am reasonably trained (you know, dismantle-assemble the gun blindfolded within 30s kind of gig), I have killed countless animals. Then I almost killed myself with a .22. That was the end of the madness for me, the wake up call. No it does not only happen to others...
I really do not see the need to have a gun in my home, even with the madness going around : it would simply make my kids much more unsafe (the data is compelling). The Newtown mad boy first shot his own mother with her own gun, point proven. A few weeks ago in Pennsylvania some sad guy shot and killed his own 7 year old son coming out of the gun shop, an accident. How many more innocents have to fall?
Guns were invented to kill, this is what they do, no surprise. Pretending the contrary is a sign of mental disorder, a good reason to stay away from guns. And for those for whom target shooting is a life necessity, try darts.
Putting armed guards in schools will not work, Columbine proved that, sorely. The NRA's address today was pathetic, irresponsible. They failed to grab the opportunity for true leadership and showed that they really are what they are accused of being. Indulging their self serving nerdy interests in the name of freedom and cautioning the price to pay for it, while pointing the finger at everything else but guns. This was quite simply shocking and frankly incompetent: they proved their ineptitude (which is probably a good thing as they have almost certainly damaged their cause). But overall, shame on them.
Shame on the politicians to not have had the balls to address this earlier and even let the ban on semi-automatic weapons expire. Look at the timetable of mass shootings in the US: the acceleration of such incidents is frightening: the next one should happen within less than 6 months. The scenario is now well known: smart kid who cant cope with life (and yes our society is great at producing lots of these...), puts hands on guns (because they are just there), goes out seeking futile revenge and exit with a big bang, taking as many with him as he can for maximum media effect (oh Fox News, how much you love this!).
I am very impressed with the way Australia has handled the problem. Respect! May be time to look for a job there... I promise I'll bring the C&J bikes with me
Well said. You are welcome out here anytime!
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Well said. You are welcome out here anytime!
Same from me Eric, you've beautifully articulated the phone conversation I had with an old friend in San Francisco on Friday. She's lived in the USA all her life and has had it up to her teeth with the gun culture. She works in fine arts, a normally lefty aligned, liberal community but she was shocked to realise that more of her colleagues owned guns than those who didn't. Her gun owning workmates actually made her the butt of their jokes when she told them that she'd never in her life held a gun in her hand and hoped that she never would. It upset her so much she started crying when she told me the story two days after. Let's hope America as a nation sees the light.....somehow however I think it'll remain business as usual ::).
Where did you move to the USA from Eric?
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I live south of San Francisco. California is one of these restrictive states where you cannot buy more than one gun per month (from a shop that is...), horror of horrors :)
I think it is clear to all humans with at least half a brain that extremist gun-lovers have managed to abuse an old text (an important one mind you) to satisfy their excessive fixation on what is nothing more than a hobby or a borderline pathological and deluded desire for more personal power. The whole self-protection thing is a fallacy, data shows it. But as we know, the boogeyman is a strong part of the modern American psyche: extra-terrestrials, communists, the government, black people, Cubans, Mexicans, Iraqi WMDs, the end of the Mayan world, when there is nobody to worry about they invent him, and of course now he is legally armed to the teeth (at least nobody is suggesting a looming invasion by Canadians, ah but wait of course, the hordes of illegal Mexican immigrants...). This can only go away with education (have you seen the quote by Jeff Johnson the clown: "I suggest to put teachers in gun shops" :). Hopefully over time the fear-mongers will loose grip on the population as all grow their critical thinking skills.
Around here we hear about the odd shooting and gun murder: the absolute totality of them involve rival gangs fighting over their pissing grounds. If they did not have guns, they would use baseball bats, and still kill each-others, great, less risks for innocent onlookers. But they pretty much stick to their own. Hardly an issue for the likes of me (and I realize that I am fortunate). And you know what, if some lunatic is crazy enough to empty my garage I certainly would not try to stop him with a gun: he would likely have a bigger one anyway and much more ready than me to use it.
I feel bad for your friend. Having a gun has become a bit like smoking: most urban folks don't exactly know why they have one, but since others do it, they might just as well do it. The vast majority would be incapable of using their gun in a state of panic (seriously, do they sleep with the gun armed on their bedside table? Ready to jump like Bourne at the first suspicious noise?) and would most likely hurt themselves if they had to use it. I feel sorry for them, the way I have always felt for smokers... There is no need to try to reason, just avoid the conversation. Then of course you have those who say they own one but in fact don't, you know like you took that you jump on your 1978 Maico and you were doing, well at least 80mph, I swear... :)
Yet I really understand the feeling of power that having a gun can provide, because I lived that. Jeez, I felt like the world was mine. There is a wicked awesomeness about having such power elegantly contained, ready to unleash at your demand. It is inebriating, like alcohol and sex or driving a Hummer.... It also gives you the feeling that your reproductive appendage is much bigger... And it is hard to fight that urge. Friends are in awe, wicked. Some never grow out of it.
I don't particularly want to take away guns form law abiding Americans. Only from my perspective, the current legal framework is a gross abuse of the second amendment that has gone too far and has made a joke of the intent behind the text. The current situation is shameful: America can do better, much better than that. Freedom and fun do not have to come at the price of dozens of innocents every 6 months. This is plain crazy. The leaders on both sides of the argument have totally failed to lead. I do have faith that something really important is now going to happen, with or without the extremists. The NRA really screwed up, but this time the majority has swung by such a margin that it becomes politically palatable to be audacious. January will be interesting.
Hey thank you for starting this subject here. A much better place than the US blogs where the grammar-challenged red-necks quickly deliver assault with four letter words and capitals but little substance. Imagine having an argument about this with one of them in a bar late at night...
OK, I have probably abused your patience here. Cheers ;)
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You've not even begun to test my patience, Eric.
Very eloquent, and very interesting for this outsider.
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All I can say as an old Magpie is...........Bring back The Bluebags and The Pies !! ;D
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I don't know how I got on this loony's mailing list but he's sent me another of his crazy rants..............Here's his email address if you feel the need to reply [email protected] (http://[email protected])
They used a poster child for this to get everybody's sympathy and to get everybody's emotions up so that they could hopefully bring in a gun ban. They used a little poster child, a little blonde-haired blue-eyed six year old girl. She was the face, the poster child. She was supposedly killed along with the other 19 six year olds and seven year olds at Sandy Hook. Three days later Obama was there doing a photo op and she's sitting on his knee. She's supposed to be dead, used as a poster child, this little girl died - she's sitting on Obama's knee three days later. The same little girl.
And then they have her parents interviewed. It shows that they're all actors. It never really happened, because the guy that was supposedly her dad, is shown in the video where he's to the side and he's laughing and joking with other people and then he's called up in front of the camera. He's off to the left. Then he's called to the center, to the focus of the camera to be interviewed and to give his speech about Sandy Hook and about his daughter. And he goes from on the side from laughing and joking with everybody, he comes up to the center and ... he takes the joking, smiling face off and you can see him physically trying to force his face to look sad and then he starts talking about how his daughter's been killed. They're actors. There were no bodies.
It was a made for TV drama to try to ram through the gun control laws, because they want to kill the American people and they can't kill armed people. That's why Hitler disarmed the Germans, it's why Stalin disarmed the Russians, it's why chairman Mao disarmed the Chinese and they killed between them something like 120 million of their own people. And that's what they want to do in America and they can't do it because the people have the Second Amendment and they have guns. So they have to do all of this, and they'll keep doing it. There will be more incidents like this, which are made for television, until they manage to persuade the American people to give up their guns. And then they'll start killing the Americans. Because the Americans are the only people stopping them from doing what they want to do already. They know they can't put their next phase, which is reducing the world's population, they can't put that phase into operation whilst the Americans have got millions!
of guns.
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I may be wrong but I thought the second amendment "The right to bare arms" was never about the individuals right to own a gun but more about states rights
As a way to appease individual states / colonies concerns about joining the Federation and giving up some states rights in the process they wrote into the constitution that individual states, in the face of a tyrannical federal government had the right to raise and arm a state militia to defend themselves.
Over the years the interpretation has been grossly massaged to suit narrow ( ever broadening) interests and further supported in a ruling by the US Supreme Court some time back.
My some total of experience with guns is firing a shot gun (only recently) at some clay discs and whilst fun I have no inclination to own one, for me guns like boats have no place in my thoughts.
Other than people on the land I do not quite get the need to have them
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I actually bothered to read one of the conspiracy websites. The 'argument' was so full of holes, it resembled an old Lada that had been parked on the beach for the last 20 years...
In particular, the conspiracy theory moved between "the children never existed", "the children weren't killed" and "the government murdered kids" without even a twinge of embarassment.
There were numerous other failings too - including a pic of "hired actors" and the evidence of this was that they had a pic of grieving parents and then another the same couple smiling, supposedly in their real home in Florida. Absolutely nothing to support the idea that they're from Florida, and apparently it's impossible that these people were happy before the shooting?
The real failing of the this conspiracy theory is that it's utterly inconveivable that these school shootings are frauds, with dozens sloppy mistakes made, and yet NOBODY has blabbed. ::)
These nutters need to apply the same paranoid scrutiny to their own ideas. Then they'd STFU, out of pure embarassment.
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25084160.jpg)
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I don't know how I got on this loony's mailing list but he's sent me another of his crazy rants..............Here's his email address if you feel the need to reply [email protected] (http://[email protected])
the guy that was supposedly her dad, is shown in the video where he's to the side and he's laughing and joking with other people and then he's called up in front of the camera. He's off to the left.
I hate to say it but that father and mother were on the news tonight and I noticed that they didn't look too upset at all .
Then I read this post.
Strange Days. :o
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I live south of San Francisco. California is one of these restrictive states where you cannot buy more than one gun per month (from a shop that is...), horror of horrors :)
I think it is clear to all humans with at least half a brain that extremist gun-lovers have managed to abuse an old text (an important one mind you) to satisfy their excessive fixation on what is nothing more than a hobby or a borderline pathological and deluded desire for more personal power. The whole self-protection thing is a fallacy, data shows it. But as we know, the boogeyman is a strong part of the modern American psyche: extra-terrestrials, communists, the government, black people, Cubans, Mexicans, Iraqi WMDs, the end of the Mayan world, when there is nobody to worry about they invent him, and of course now he is legally armed to the teeth (at least nobody is suggesting a looming invasion by Canadians, ah but wait of course, the hordes of illegal Mexican immigrants...). This can only go away with education (have you seen the quote by Jeff Johnson the clown: "I suggest to put teachers in gun shops" :). Hopefully over time the fear-mongers will loose grip on the population as all grow their critical thinking skills.
Around here we hear about the odd shooting and gun murder: the absolute totality of them involve rival gangs fighting over their pissing grounds. If they did not have guns, they would use baseball bats, and still kill each-others, great, less risks for innocent onlookers. But they pretty much stick to their own. Hardly an issue for the likes of me (and I realize that I am fortunate). And you know what, if some lunatic is crazy enough to empty my garage I certainly would not try to stop him with a gun: he would likely have a bigger one anyway and much more ready than me to use it.
I feel bad for your friend. Having a gun has become a bit like smoking: most urban folks don't exactly know why they have one, but since others do it, they might just as well do it. The vast majority would be incapable of using their gun in a state of panic (seriously, do they sleep with the gun armed on their bedside table? Ready to jump like Bourne at the first suspicious noise?) and would most likely hurt themselves if they had to use it. I feel sorry for them, the way I have always felt for smokers... There is no need to try to reason, just avoid the conversation. Then of course you have those who say they own one but in fact don't, you know like you took that you jump on your 1978 Maico and you were doing, well at least 80mph, I swear... :)
Yet I really understand the feeling of power that having a gun can provide, because I lived that. Jeez, I felt like the world was mine. There is a wicked awesomeness about having such power elegantly contained, ready to unleash at your demand. It is inebriating, like alcohol and sex or driving a Hummer.... It also gives you the feeling that your reproductive appendage is much bigger... And it is hard to fight that urge. Friends are in awe, wicked. Some never grow out of it.
I don't particularly want to take away guns form law abiding Americans. Only from my perspective, the current legal framework is a gross abuse of the second amendment that has gone too far and has made a joke of the intent behind the text. The current situation is shameful: America can do better, much better than that. Freedom and fun do not have to come at the price of dozens of innocents every 6 months. This is plain crazy. The leaders on both sides of the argument have totally failed to lead. I do have faith that something really important is now going to happen, with or without the extremists. The NRA really screwed up, but this time the majority has swung by such a margin that it becomes politically palatable to be audacious. January will be interesting.
Hey thank you for starting this subject here. A much better place than the US blogs where the grammar-challenged red-necks quickly deliver assault with four letter words and capitals but little substance. Imagine having an argument about this with one of them in a bar late at night...
OK, I have probably abused your patience here. Cheers ;)
They would probably shoot you on principal. The second amendment seems to get twisted like the Westbro Baptist Church twists the bible.
Be welcome here anytime
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Just to show you how safe guns are... and how responsible and intelligent some gun owners are...
Natural selection at work...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/17/gun-fails-second-amendment-rights-gone-wrong_n_2490579.html?1358451268&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009&utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#sb=1827062,b=facebook
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Whatever they try to do will be like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted, it's too ffffing late, there are more guns than people in the US.
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Whatever they try to do will be like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted, it's too ffffing late, there are more guns than people in the US.
No ones ever let that stop them before.
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I don't know how I got on this loony's mailing list but he's sent me another of his crazy rants..............Here's his email address if you feel the need to reply [email protected] (http://[email protected])
the guy that was supposedly her dad, is shown in the video where he's to the side and he's laughing and joking with other people and then he's called up in front of the camera. He's off to the left.
I hate to say it but that father and mother were on the news tonight and I noticed that they didn't look too upset at all .
Then I read this post.
Strange Days. :o
Lindy Chamberlain was tried and convicted by the Aussie public, because she didn't act the way "we" expected/wanted...
People do weird things under stress, others just have weird personalities.
I saw the video of the bloke "laughing". It struck me that it was a nervous response to the interview he was about to give, rather than any real mirth. An actor would surely be putting himself "in the role"...?
Also, he spoke of losing family - he possibly wasn't the parent of a murdered child.
If its all a hoax, I want to see much more credible, convincing evidence than what's been presented so far...
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There's a lot about the Goddamn US of A that I despise, and their gun culture is just a small part.
In a small way I understand what the East hate about them.
BUT, I know who I'd rather be friends with.
Apart from the multiple wife bit, even that has its negative reason so I'm lost, again.