OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vintage Track => Topic started by: Snowy 76 on October 03, 2012, 01:21:03 pm
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Have a rebuild kit, any one had these apart before?? looks pretty basic?? how much /what sort of oil. any info. Thanks Mark.
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are they not just air and spring ? you mean the track type forks right ?
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now i know what your on about snowy. yes just add oily liquid to desired stantion level. 20w or any old car oil will do
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your thing anything like this one snowy ? thinking of pulling the bully motor out. but how do you tell what year the motors are ?
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/photo3.jpg)
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but how do you tell what year the motors are ?
By the engine #. http://www.brbultacos.com/IDbike.html (http://www.brbultacos.com/IDbike.html)
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Restore it with the Bully motor Freaky.
There were more of them around in the Lightweight ( 250cc ) class than anything else.
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Interesting old slider you have there Freaky. Any more pics from different angles?
Nice. I'm thinking that the grab bar thingy over the rear guard is an add on ??
Regards Mark
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Going by an old catalogue that I have that looks like a B50 Hagon frame Freaky
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How many rear guards were broken by over enthusiastic pusher's before they made those?
I only remember the Hagon " copies " having a push bar.
I was just a bairn around that time, certainly not an expert.
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its a good mod because in the mid to late 70s we all had to put the big square no plates on. most just pop riveted them to the glass. thats what i did with my hagon 84s and astro hagon
jim
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has the front bend, so cant see why it cant take a jawa and box. this thing is on methonal and is prity fast, also has a spare motor but they look a little differant to each other.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/photo2.jpg)
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Ok so the moter starts with a 4 so it's pre70. Guy said this was 68 ? Bultaco pursing.
Bike is ex ray wason Aussie title bike. And i think his son also rode on it at tamarama.
The changes made to the rear loop where added by him and ray Owen ? Motor uses Amal carb and pancake steal air filter, looks pretty much original and was rebuilt by him before he sold it and done a handful of starts since then even had a run at nepean.
So someone must have pictures of this bike from back in the day. I think Ray wason has passed so any other info will have to come from this crowd.
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has the front bend, so cant see why it cant take a jawa and box..
Don't do it Freaky, that bike deserves to remain as it is. There are some things that shouldn't be flucked with because of their historical value and this is one of them. It's the wrong frame for a Jawa anyway.
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Yeah leave it original Freaky, especially if it has history.
I'm pretty sure Wason jnr us on here, he put a heap of photo's in the DT foto topic.
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Restore the bike to it's original condition Freaky. Like the boys said,..it,s got history
and you are lucky enough to know it. I could be tempted to remove the push bar thingy though! It looks shit. Great find. regards Mark
p.s. Ray Wason's son is on here, might pay to get in touch.
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Jody mason said he rode it at the 97 nats.
YEp had a closer look at it as they weld the rear end in, it wont take a jawa anyway, so it'll have to have a 2ee in it. :) im onto another frame for a jawa so will use that if it comes through. ;)
although i dont own any bultacos, so if its shits itself it will get parked as i dont have the parts (although the motor was supposed to have been rebuilt.
i dont do restoration, it would just be a clean and polish and tart up and then ride it !!!!!
calling Ray if your out there chim in ! any pictures please would be good and history lesson.
cheers freaky
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(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/41D31D57-1EAC-43FB-B9E6-1E41E25C11E3-2956-000003822F42FFA1.jpg)
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Heard from rick, it's his old mans original bike for sure. Will post update as he passes info on.
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ha ah once you take off the crappy side plates look what you find ....
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/a125a49eca9db1c53c2d39f3dc532395.jpg)
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NOw jump back 40 years to calder raceway ....
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/5615449.jpg)
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Great to see the old girl still in one piece, upswept pipe now.
Was Calder a Short Circuit or Longtrack?
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i think this pipe was on it for the drag strip. Rick tells me Ray took it to calder racway with the harely club ( or hartley) and it pulled a 12 sec quarter mile :o
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That Hagon's a piece of history Freaky. What you do with it is your deal but if it was mine I'd be preserving it as much as humanly possible. I wouldn't restore it but would get it as mechanically spot on as I could and wouldn't paint or rechrome anything. I'd merely get what I've got as clean and shiny as Meguiar products can produce. As the old saying goes... "they're only original once" and this old warhorse deserves that respect. I'd find another frame for the Jawa motor.
ps...I think 12's for the quarter is a bit fanciful. I got high 12's out of my 490 Maico which had a lot more hp than an old boat tail Pursang motor.
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Considering it's got a 19" Barum on the back I'd say he was riding Short Circuit that day.
Calder held the 67 OZ Short Curcuit titles, Ray Owen won the Unlimited, Les Burdus the Senior( 500cc), Charlie Edwards the Junior ( 350cc ) and Lightweight ( 250cc ), Ray Owen the Ultra Lightweight ( 125 ).
That photo may've been taken that day .
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Hey Steve I am far from an expert on these things but the Falcon GT in the background looks to me like a later model than an '67. Maybe XY/XW???? I'm sure there will be a Ford fan here that will be able to tell us more.
Cheers
Shaun
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Now as soon as I posted that comment Shaun I thought to myself that the Falcon, looks close to new, would give the year away.
I don't think Calder ran SC meetings for very long or very often, someone will chime in with an answere on that I'm sure.
All good, we'll find out, I actually thought Firko would've chimed in with the model & year of the Falcon.
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I actually thought Firko would've chimed in with the model & year of the Falcon.
It's an XW Falcon....looks to be a GT made from '69-70. I'm not the genius you think I am though, I had to google the difference between the XW and XY tail lights ::). I'll bet my sweet bippy that's Calder too.
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Can't speak pre 72 but Calder only ran Rally cross that i can remember after 72. But the photo shows what looks to be a speedway sidecar in the background just to the left of the road bike . Originally I was thinking it might have been a club drag day but I'm thinking more dirt track . What a great find Freaky, I envy guys who come across such finds . Treat the old girl nicely
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A beauty ...and the gear lever is on the proper side.
pancho
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Firko there is nothing to do, the motor was rebuild awhile back and tight as a drum, it ran a few month back on the harness racing track at full tilt. Add meth, castor and bump start...... I have offered it back to rick. In case he wants the memories.
He was telling me the days his dad built it And remembers dad bringing home the brand new Bultaco pursang they pulled the motor from and slotted in. Funny part is after 40 years there isn't much change In the two pictures is fully time warped
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I have no idea about Calder, but in the back ground the people are looking at the tarmac, there is a car on the road track surface on the left having just gone through what looks like a finish marker on the right ?
Rick said he did a drag run on a club day and it was still in dirt trim including barrums
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Considering it's got a 19" Barum on the back I'd say he was riding Short Circuit that day.
Slides,sometime in the '70s I remember Don Campbell, # 9, from the old Pacific club, called in at Castlereagh on his way home from Nepean, got conned into dragging the JAP off the trailer and having a run, strapped a bit of foam under the motor and turned a time in the 11's, Barum and all, I saw the time slip but can't remember the exact time. Totally rooted the Barum !!
Foss
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That is a very nice thing to do Freaky (offering the bike back to Rick).
What was the outcome? if you don't mind me asking.
Regards Mark
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Here's the very early Antig Bultaco Jims shipping back from England in the same box as my Metisse. Note unusual rear loop, very different to my own Antig 2T frame. Like mine it's got the very rare and desirable Antig hubs. These little items are considered holy grail by pre 65 MX bike builders.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/KGrHqFpUFBQQG1uTBQiERw8Q60_12.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/KGrHqVlMFhLQy12TBQiESTtcGw60_12.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/KGrHqZiQF9nH1I8BQiERMtgr60_12.jpg)
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That is a very nice thing to do Freaky (offering the bike back to Rick).
What was the outcome? if you don't mind me asking.
Regards Mark
The family seems prity keen to have it back, I get emails daily with fotos of the bike, the sashes and his dad with it. Ricks going to put a peice together about it and we will post it here if you guys are interested. I can tell rick remembers everything about this bike and every bit of its history so it would be good that we get it all down somewhere to stay with the bike, I have had a few Bully collectors wave some coin at it, but I rather see it go back home if possible and give rick first option, even if I send it over there on loan for a while and they can catch up
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Good onya Kerry, I hope it works out.
I'm pretty sure we'd all like to see some more of it and Ray's History.
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(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/photo5.jpg)
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(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d88/munchboxlive/photo2-1.jpg)
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Now doesn't that make you feel better Freaky ;D. As much as I love an engine swap, this just isn't the bike to wedge a Jawa/AMC into. If the family wants it, I reckon you should do as much as you can to make it happen. A proper Hagon/Elstar/Antig roller will eventually come along, they're not that rare.
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i still have that early hagon i picked up that had the jAp in it, just have to figure out how to make the swap to a 2 vavle cause i give up watign for its motor to resurface.
Aalso picking up another long track roller this week thats plated for a JAwa but not sure on the frame year till i see it. so have some options.
still would like to fang this taco out at some point, but the speedway track wont let us run gearbox bikes........ but im working on that to ;)
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Broadford next Easter sounds like the ideal opportunity Freaky, good time for the hand over and maybe Rick can cut some Laps as well?
I'm hoping to get down there next year.
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What a great story this has turned into! I would love to read more about the Bully and Ray Wason including pics. Good an ya Freaky. You should be proud of yourself.
How cool would it be if this bike can end up back with Ray's family. The Broadford thing sounds like a good thing as well. I'll be there Slides. The track is great, fairly long so you can have a good "fang" on the Taco Freaky :D
cheers Mark
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Just saw the current condition of Calder Park in 2012 on Gasoline.
Shame, but I have to admit that after watching the Nascar series on Ch1 occasionally, it is bloody boring, just like their Footy & Baseball & Basketball.
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If you enlarge the picture of dad and the Bulty at Calder you can see that his original carburettor was an Amal GP with the separate bowl for more fuel flow. The main jets were in the 2000 range and his favourite plug was an RL49 or 59 ? lodge which I still have 2 or 3 of When I spoke to Freaky I went into the back shed and pulled out the collection of rear sprockets, a new set of exact.handlebars and the original full alloy brake lever with the cable still attached. The bike was made & welded together from plans that dad sent to England for, from Alf Hagon. When the main bar was put in, it was of oversize tubing compared to a normal Hagon. This was because dad thought it would be ok to use that as the fuel tank. It was found not to run economically as a 2000 size jet swallows alky. The tank was fitted later. The ignition was mounted on the front dirt shield in the Calder photo. Later the femsatronic coil was fitted to the rear dirt shield to stop the wire joins failing from vibration.
When the pursang motor was put into the Hagon, a YAMAHA motor was put into the pursang and was alway called the Yamsang. Dad was a lifetime member of the Harley Club Of Victoria and never missed a Romsey grass track. The Hagon was also used at the Harley Club drags at Calder Park and after lunch they would then do road race. This was the first time that I met another gentleman of the sport, Rusty Craggill. Rusty let me ride his Ta125 Yamaha road racer around the pits at Calder until I ran out of petrol.
The Bulty was also used in Harley Club hill climbs, I can't remember where, but I will check dads trophies to try and find out. There are more photo's at Romsey that I will try to find and get up on the site. Thanks guys for your kind words about the bike and it's history.
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I'm pretty sure the Harley club ran the hillclimb at Rob Roy. I used to go there as a kid with my Dad . Harry Rowe was racing sidecars and was a member of the club. I have some film footage, I'll have a look and see if I can get some names. I reckon your Dad would have known Harry . The Harley club was very active back then.
Regards Mark
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Well guys I am ready for the up date on my Dads #68 Bultaco Hagon Copy. When I got home tonight from work my wife asked me if I would like my Christmas present early or on Christmas day. In the background my 18 year old son was knodding quite vigorously up and down, so I said tonight would be fine. My wife made me close my eyes and she led me out to the car port walking backwards in case I peeked. She spun me around and said, o/k you can look.
You know that stunned feeling when something is so exciting that you can`t breathe, can`t take yours eyes off it and you get a tear in your eye and every emotion has hit you at once.
There was Dads Hagon sitting in my carport, that I haven`t seen for some 20 years.
You are a sneeky bastard Freaky and I cannot express my thanks enough for contacting my Wife and making this happen.
Your status says legend AND SO IT SHOULD. Thank you again Rick Wason.
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:) pleasure is all mine. I was just as excited planning the surprise as it sounds you where to receive it. I'm glad it made your Xmas special. Although I did tell your missis to hide it till Xmas...... Guess she was just too excited :D
I hope when your family and sisters come down and your friends come over during Xmas you get a chance to remember your past, share the good times and raise a glass to your dad, he is Still with you all, and through his bike again a big part of your life's.
These moments are what we all live for.
Merry Xmas mate.
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After she shocked me with it my son started laughing, saying there was no way to hide it as I would notice a covered up object of that size. Plus I have no room at the shop other than for customer jobs at the moment.
It will be in the front window of the shop tommorrow, still Ray Wason Motor Cycles Pty Ltd and celebrating the family owned business name for 54 Years. I will get the local paper to do a story. HAGON COMES HOME.
Spoke to my sister tonight, you are not going to believe this. When she was going out with my future Brotherinlaw he bought the Yamsang, ( Yamaha motor in the Bultaco Pursang frame. ) and found the slides for the photo and they are being printed to pictures this week. The Pursang motor was the Hagon motor. He bought the Yamsang off Paul Box who worked for Dad as a mechanic for Appro $269.00. Cant wait to see these.
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Also have a little confession to make..... I had to add some juice and fire it up before I shipped it... Just a little squirt.. Tyres hard as a rock and wouldn't hold air but she started first bump.... But as I. Had to rush to meet the truck I forgot to washout the methanol, so don't forget to give it a quick run on petrol before you park it other wise that castor might lock up that crank.. Sorry about not doing it but I had to make some promises and call in some favours in from Fergussons to get it to over there before Xmas. They even got in on the act and put on a special truck to get It to wang and to your wife During the day before you came home today.
A Short ride but I couldnt let it go till i ticked that box too - http://youtu.be/Pz4wNc4biQQ
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Send me a copy of the story when it gets in the paper, be great to see it.
Its so Funny how things go, I was going to put new tyres on it and cut that push bar off the back, but stopped short. Only to get on this thread to ask snowy if he had the same front end..... Then Jody spotted the bike. By luck or dumb arseness It was like following bread crumbs to you. It just wanted to make its way home.
To see that picture of your dad and how original it still is blew my mind and I'm so happy I didn't touch it, even the old tyres.... It's like an old persons face it shows every thing in its life, a life lived. If it was me I'd leave it exactly as it is ( well maybe new inner tubes and that kill switch) to restore it with new paint would be to erase its past. Post some pics from the shop when its in there
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It will get a good clean be put on display. I watched the Video you sent, Thanks for that.
Will do the pic as soon as I can.
Mate, talk about a fairtale ending.
The funny part is the smell on the bike. It doesn`t matter how far its travelled the smell always reminds me of our shed at the original house where Dad used to prepare his bikes. The floor was wooden and stained with Castrol M and R 30.
( The crazy part is there probably is no smell to the bike, but when I look at it that is what my senses tell me.)
Thats why memories are so important.
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Well I did fire it up on old castor m, bloody stuff you can see dripping out the ext pipe.... And the floor of my van :) he he
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Top stuff, Freaksta !!! I got out here this morning, found this yarn and watched the clip. It's great to see a bit of OZ DT history back where it belongs.
Foss
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How cool is that, well done Kerry.
I'm sure it'll take pride of place.
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Sneaky.......Freaky !! Top Stuff !! ;D
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What a cool story....well done Freaky and have a merry christmas.
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What a great Christmas Tale.
Good onya Freaky ;)
Cheers
Shaun
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THAT has just made my day !!! The way all of this worked out is fantastic. ;D
Good on you Kerry. That bike just had to get home. What a pressie Rick.
I'm sure there were a few tears. Merry Christmas.
regards Mark #29
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Your makin a jolly good Santa Freaky.too cool !!
Merry Christmas Wason family 8)
What a great story this has turned into! I would love to read more about the Bully and Ray Wason including pics.
plus the running of the Victorian family motorcycle shop for the last 50 odd years ~ gotta be a magazine story in it for sure. ;) :P ;D
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Great goodwill Christmas story!
pancho
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Thats the best story i've read on here ,bar none,
Well done Freaky.
Cheers KB
Rick,I hope you bring the bike down to Broadford one day,
be great to see it back on the dirt.
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Cuts both ways this and more,..... the Wason family got the pressie of dreams,
The Freakster probably the best present (fantastic what he did) and we have all got big smiles on our dials. Thanks.
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Hey guys, life doesn`t get much better than this. I now have Dads Bike back in the family, ( thanks to Freaky ), I also have my Godden Speedway bike back from 14 Years ago and a Bultaco Astro that I have wanted ever since a kid after watching Chris Kelly ride one.
The interesting thing about the Astro is that I found it by chance in Gippsland and made the phone call. I then paid a deposit of $200.00 to the Gentleman, and I do mean Gentleman.
2 Years later we finally met up at the Broadford Bonanza and he brought the rolling chassis in pieces and had held it for 2 years for me on a $200.00 deposit. I was blown away as he had offers well above the price that we had settled on. Our negotiations were based on the fact that the Astro was purchased not for resale and would stay in my family. I was parked with the Godden and the Astro in the pit area at Broadford after the meeting and a guy who I new quite well offered me large amounts of money for that bike.
It is still in my shed and I will try to do a full restro on it.
The only other bike that I want to find is my Original Hagon with the TA 125 Twin Yamaha that I used at Romsey for the 2nd place in the Vic Title behind Gary Chasemore. I also won the Victorian short track title on that bike at Wangaratta. This will make my collection complete.
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(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t465/rw490/Yamsang_zps92a1f033.jpg)
This is the Yamsang. The motor from the Pursang was mounted into the Hagon frame that Dad made and a Yamaha motor was put into the Pursang chassis, Hence " The Yamsang "
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Yamsang.......too cool for school. Yet another engine swap, hot rod motocrosser to be added to my data base of such things. This is one of those swaps that make sense, the Yamaha motor is better than the original Mk4 Pursang hand grenade and the Pursang roller donor is a vast improvement on the DT1 original. That would actually be a pretty competitive pre '70 class racer if it existed today 8).
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What can't you do with a Dt1 ?
Like the GYT pipe too need one of them for my leg burner....
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Hey Firko, I'm trying to trace backwards to see if I can find the beast. Then the Hagon & the Yamsang will be at Broadford.
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nice story,your a good bloke freaky
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(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t465/rw490/image_zpsade79ed6.jpg)
2nd from left Ray Wason, behind him the tallest one is Kevin Atteridge the man who's first job as an apprentice was to weld together the Hagon frame for dad, and back right hand side is Paul Box who hand cut, bent and made all the frame pieces for Kevin to weld.
These guys hand made this Hagon bike that was built in the 2nd month of 1970 as I gave Paul a copy of his apprentice indenture papers the other day dated 23 12 1969 and Paul said that they did the Hagon 2 months later.
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(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t465/rw490/scan0036_zps99b72687.jpg)
Hey Freaky, found another photo of the Hagon. The one Max is sitting on became the chassis for the TA125 Twin on Photo Forum Romsey.
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NO thats is THE BEST FOTO EVER !!!1 thats up there with a steve mcqueen pic.. Awesome work. i might just have to see if i can buy a ticket to ride at broadford if there still for sale....