OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => Yamaha => Topic started by: bruiser on January 07, 2012, 12:04:50 pm
-
Hi Guys,
I am seeking Ideas and variations from others, who may have the experience of building a Yamaha HL500. or their own version of a HL500!
Info in a broad range would be great... like if people have used their original standard XT/TT frame or have modified it.
I have a 1979/80 CR 250 frame laying about also, that may be used for this Project???
I have heard that early- mid seventy's Husky frames are the frame that were used on the original HL500... also Maico 1978 frames have been used.
I am interested to know, if frames have been used from other makes also... and if, they have been successful in handling department.
Also the combination of other components that have been used, swingarms, wheels, front forks & shocks etc.
If you would like to post up pics of your own HL500, or version of... that would be great too!
Thanks
Bruiser
-
i think i know were there is one for sale ;) gmc hl copy if you are interested i.ll find out more
-
Hi Paul,
Thanks... though I was thinking of developing my own version of a HL500.
I was wondering if it would be worthwhile grafting a TT500 engine into the 1979/80 Honda CR 250 frame that I already have. as a starting point?
Also I have a complete 1979 XT 500 & the first model TT500 that is incomplete, with frame & engine only... plus an old SR500 engine that could even be used to power the project.
Bruiser.
-
think some earlier vmx mags had some HL looking specials. In the red rocket will look like a redline.think there are lots of photos for ideas on "thumper Talk"
-
The maico frame is lots of work and so would be the CR, you'll never get the height for the carb. There is so much space in the early husky frame you can get the weight distribution right
This is a good link
http://gelanz.com/xt500/hl500.html
-
Hi cloggy,
That is a good link, thanks for that.
Bruiser
-
for some reason I like the RM TT500, nice close fit. it is tall motor and won't fit just anything.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/1108-1.jpg)
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMG_3453.jpg)
-
A french acquaintance of mine shoved a DR400 motor into an RM frame. It was a lot of work. He had to splice in GN/SP bottom rails to get the motor to fit. It was recently featured in VMX or classic dirt bike, I can't remember which. The DR lump is even taller, being wet sump.
He raced it once at Farleigh, smashed up the Joel Robert signatured tank; and when he got home he found he'd bent both axles [Simons forks]. When I saw him the following year it was still in the shed. It went well though.
I've got slightly later '81+clampbolt forks on my DR, bigger front axle; and the swing arm pivot is bigger diameter than the XT. You could put an XT motor into a DR. The frame is a copy of the RM.
Back in 1980 Dirt Bike modded a DR. They put 38's, an ally swingarm, and a 420 kit in and went CCM bashing. They really rated it. Called it an excellent motorcycle. Head angle's a touch slack though.
-
A french acquaintance of mine shoved a DR400 motor into an RM frame. It was a lot of work. He had to splice in GN/SP bottom rails to get the motor to fit. It was recently featured in VMX or classic dirt bike, I can't remember which. The DR lump is even taller, being wet sump.
He raced it once at Farleigh, smashed up the Joel Robert signatured tank; and when he got home he found he'd bent both axles [Simons forks]. When I saw him the following year it was still in the shed. It went well though.
I've got slightly later '81+clampbolt forks on my DR, bigger front axle; and the swing arm pivot is bigger diameter than the XT. You could put an XT motor into a DR. The frame is a copy of the RM.Back in 1980 Dirt Bike modded a DR. They put 38's, an ally swingarm, and a 420 kit in and went CCM bashing. They really rated it. Called it an excellent motorcycle. Head angle's a touch slack though.
??? ??? ???
-
Hello,
I just did one "on the cheap". As most of you know we believe that when it comes to bikes, no expense should be spared...while the wives believe every expense should be spared. Therefore I chose an XT250 as the basis, converted it to twin shock, PE175 swingarm, IT490 front end, YZ490 rear wheel, XT250 tank etc etc. It's currently in paint. I used this picture as a guideline and am surprised how close it came: (http://www.mxworksbike.com/HL500_profab_750.jpg)
I am hoping to register it, we'll see. Will try to add a mock up picture from a couple of weeks ago later.
Cheers,
T
-
This is my Aberg Replica as it was in1981.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/coljay/SR500mx-81.jpg)
The basis of the build was my 1978 Husky 390AMX. I had one too many transmission failures so I fitted the engine from my 1978 SR500 into the frame and used to play swap the engine between the bike depending on wether I wanted to ride on the road or race MX (mug C grader)
The front end is from a Yamaha YZ465G. oil tank on the LH side was home made from 1mm steel sheet and the engine was fairly hot; 11:1 wiseco piston (still 500cc) Web 88A cam, flowed head, S&W springs, 38mm VM Mikuni or 38mm EI carbie, (depending on the day) and the obligatory LOUD open megaphone exhaust.
This is how it looked in 2000 when reassembled for CD2.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s120/coljay/SR500MX8x6.jpg)
Bike doesn't realy exist anymore, as I rebuilt the bike back to its origins as a 390AMX in 2010. However I still have all the bits needed to re-re-rebuild it using a 1978 Husky CR390 that I bought a few years ago. In fact I picked up another set of Fox Airshox from a mate yesterday. So all that I need to find now are a suitable rear swingarm, a seat, some time and a bit of spare cash.
CJ
-
Just to confuse the issue I'll point things in the other direction.
Use the standard frame and if you are keen you can easily take off a couple of kilos of brackets and bracing.
A Suzuki PE250/400 swingarm is an easy answer for the back end. I know of a couple of guys who are using the complete swingarm and wheel assembly as the sprockets line up pretty well. You need to make up a cable to run the rear brake as it's on the other side.
For forks, probably YZ/IT Yamaha and depending on what you want to do (classes for racing etc) the 43mm forks are a bit more rigid than the 38’s but both will work well.
Depending on what forks you use you may need to modify the steering stem. Most Yamaha ones are a bit short, I use Suzuki ones and re-machine them a bit shorter to suit.
Change the steering head bearings to tapered rollers.
IT/YZ/TT/XT wheels will all interchange but the XT wheels are the heaviest. There are differences in axle diameters on the rear wheels
I no longer believe in de-raking these things, they will turn corners very well if they are set up right.
I have a PE swingarm here, It has had a brake anchor welded on for a Yamaha brake. The axle has been machined to length and there are spacers to suit a YZ465/TT600 wheel with a 20mm axle. Included is a pair of stepped spacers to fit the PE swingarm bolt in the XT/TT frame. There are no swingarm bearings.
It’s for sale, PM me if you are interested
Before you try changing steering head angles get the suspension set up to work properly! I can not stress this enough
Just as important is using good tires.
-
Use the standard frame and if you are keen you can easily take off a couple of kilos of brackets and bracing.
A Suzuki PE250/400 swingarm is an easy answer for the back end.
I think there is no comparison between the real deal and wedging a YZ125C tank onto a TT frame. You can see the overall bulk of the TT is far greater, and I am not convinced that the PE swingarm is a good solution.... the shocks are in the wrong position and it is the wrong width for a TT frame. Better to start with Husky frame and go to work.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMG_1275.jpg)
-
Better to start with Husky frame and go to work.
I couldn't agree more. A mate did the conversion using a '76 CR250 frame and it looked great. Sadly the bike was never finished because he bought an HL frame and started all over again. His son has recently made a start again on the Husky.
-
Marc, I don't want to get into a pissing contest here but, the 80-81 PE swingarm is about 0.5-1mm wider than the XT/TT frame and the swingarms usually have a shim spacer under the end cap. The bolt is 1mm smaller dia so it fits pretty well with spacing washers.
I removed the extra bracing around the rear shock area and yes the frame is still heavier than an HL frame but overall the weight difference will only be few kilos given that all the other parts are much the same.
I'm not sure what you mean by the shocks not being in the right position. They are not is the same position as the HL but their shock position is not ideal anyway. There's still a lot of work in fitting a 500 motor into a Husky frame as you still need an oil tank.
It all comes down to what this owner wants to do.
-
It all comes down to what this owner wants to do.
too true, I have built the PE swinger TT along the way as we;; and it was OK .....but finally I wrecked the motor etc out of it to build the HL rep.
I have seen some really good RM/PE framed bikes pop up and that might make more sense than using the TT frame.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/rmframett.jpg)
-
Here's one I'm doing. Not going with this shock length though.
The only advice I have is, DON'T cut any corners, whichever frame you choose to go with.
(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab30/crankpin/IMAG0068.jpg)
(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab30/crankpin/IMAG0063.jpg)
-
Is brake pedal off the forth bridge? ;D
-
I'm not sure what you mean by the shocks not being in the right position. They are not is the same position as the HL but their shock position is not ideal anyway.
PE swingarm is longer than the HL swingarm, so the bike ends up much taller, you can go to shorter shocks but then you lose suspension travel.
Choice of forks also makes a difference if you want to stay class legal and both ends to be the same height, 43 mm forks are not strictly pre 80 depending on who you ride with. Better to go with 38mm, Fox Forx or Simons if you want to stay pre 80 legal.
And you are completely right the Husky frame requires quite a bit/ lot of work, depending on which frame you choose you are up for changing the back bone and fabricating oil tank. rear engine mounts. Cranky's frame looks impressively like the real deal...
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMG_3450.jpg)
-
Heres the real dealio ..... good thing about the PE swingarm is it looks like the original.... pretty angry looking Lesso in the background ;D
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/Malvernshow2008013.jpg)
-
Cranky's frame looks impressively like the real deal...
That's because it almost is ;D
Husky headstock, YZc (re-manufactured) seat rails, HL spine, downtube and cradle, new box section for the oil tank, original (NEB modified) swingarm.
I'll be getting a new swingarm from Geoff next Easter.
-
Is brake pedal off the forth bridge? ;D
Replica of the original :o
-
This is my version of a HL. Stock frame, White Bros banana arm, YZ465 38mm forks, Stock tripple tree machined out to take 38mm forks, TT500 hubs, YZ tls front brake and TT500 rear brake(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/curly3530/CD8005.jpg)(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/curly3530/CD8006.jpg)In action at CD8, which was also it's first run an shake down.(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/curly3530/CD8013.jpg)
-
So what makes the difference between a tricked up TT and an HL ???
-
That thing looks sweet as curly ! cheers ;)
-
Cool XT/TT Curly. I'm not so in love with the tank cover (on any bike, yours is the neatest I've seen though) but the rest is well thought out and very tidy. I like the TY headlight. Is it registered?
On a side track, are you happy with that front wheel bike stand gizmo? I've been tempted to get one as I'm getting too old to lift bikes on and off my stands. To me it looks as if the bike could topple over if someone gave it a nudge....am I being paranoid and silly :-\?
-
TM Bill, whats the difference the FRAME !
Huski, thanks.
Firko, very happy with the stand, holds the bike no problems and if the grounds not the most level you can drive a couple of pegs in through the holes on the ends of the legs. Yes it is regoed
-
So if you use a std frame does that still make it an HL ???
For what its worth i think the std TT using TT tank and seat is a far nicer looking bike than those jacked up HL things ;)
-
Mark thats my girl freind-the lady in pink,thought you would have noted the swish pink gum boots (right up there with Red bands) The lady in Pink or the rottwheeler? scarey
-
Mark thats my girl freind-the lady in pink
You talkin' to me Mikey? If so I haven't a clue what you're referring to ???
-
Firko Mike is reffering to Marcs post ;)
Heres the real dealio ..... good thing about the PE swingarm is it looks like the original.... pretty angry looking Lesso in the background
-
Hi Crankpin,
What frame are you using? is it a Husky frame, what size/model Husky, and year is it from?
Thanks
Bruiser
-
I think and correct me if Im wrong. Husky pre78 frame is also longer from steering tube to swingarm axle, so with Rm swing you end up lot longer wheelbase than original.
Heres my start (http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/luupaa_kuvat/80dfd8f1.jpg)
-
So if you use a std frame does that still make it an HL ???
I think people get a little hung up on the HL thing, the TT motor has been fitted to a number of frames, Montesa, Maico, YZ even. The 500 motor is reliable, easliy available big 500, screaming out for better suspension and frame and the HL is the most successful but just one example of TT specials. None of which are probably perfect but the TT500 was always a bike that was a work in progress, with very few staying standard ..... because the original TT had a more than a few areas that could be improved upon
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/KR20500.jpg)
-
Hi Crankpin,
What frame are you using? is it a Husky frame, what size/model Husky, and year is it from?
Thanks
Bruiser
It's a lot of a bitsa. You know the script, 9 new handles and 3 new heads, same hammer.
The Husky parts I've used were from a 82 250CR.
My C&J replica. Note not a HL.
(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab30/crankpin/cj300a.jpg)
(http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab30/crankpin/cjyam640a.jpg)
-
My C&J replica. Note not a HL.
Refreshingly different from grist of the mill HL reps ;).
-
check out the mate on his standard framed tt500 ...number 100
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_V92N6JG4A
-
This bloke Luke Steadman rides his Std TT real well :)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab102/GerbilGronk/2011%20VMX/Taupo%20Dec%202011/IMG_3769-1.jpg)
(http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab102/GerbilGronk/2011%20VMX/Taupo%20Dec%202011/IMG_3802-2.jpg)
-
check out the mate on his standard framed tt500 ...number 100
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_V92N6JG4A
Standard TT500 won US 4 stroke national in 1980, Goat Brekker from vague memory. Anyway a stock bike is probably ideal for guys who are a little lacking in inside leg measurement.
-
I made this
(http://api.ning.com/files/ykNksGWB3E3tqjyYLTjoQAaPn1kPF3cSYhjrX1ShtR2BFY*pe1eW7Md7IOWqC*momOsGbj4FoiHN52kN1pEutW5DIGQzBCJg/Frame.jpg?width=737&height=552)
From this (-78 husky)
(http://api.ning.com/files/cLEhRPNx55pK33X*hHPVBjpg1WsIFRP0AipzuEf5Q*zq43hJhTa9EBb-R0Rvpnjq*3-WwPsypVO4XMyjNiEdgTplkTX0Us1j/Startingpoint2.JPG?width=737&height=552)
-
And ended up with this
(http://api.ning.com/files/3U0Q965bDQxoQ8q1Uek88H-Epvc4ZjzmOKwGwn-gxqUQI42ydgPeYXLyaYhwGKxpbJlhLLSR5vU9NlX1A6PqFcw5WVy43q3m/HL5.jpg?width=737&height=490)
-
Very Nice. I am a big four stroke fan.
-
Hi Ola,
you did an awesome job on your frame and found a new use for a rusty fork leg ;D ..... I have simlar project coming up but trying to work out how to use White Brothers swingarm with full widh spindle in it, may build shorter oil tank.
And ended up with this
(http://api.ning.com/files/3U0Q965bDQxoQ8q1Uek88H-Epvc4ZjzmOKwGwn-gxqUQI42ydgPeYXLyaYhwGKxpbJlhLLSR5vU9NlX1A6PqFcw5WVy43q3m/HL5.jpg?width=737&height=490)
-
HL, C&J, DMR, Redline, Cheney, Curtis, Pro-Fab, KR, Hindall and a few more all made variations on the XT/TT Yamaha theme. May they all exist in harmony as examples of the different theories on what was felt to be needed to improve the XT/TT at the time. With the 30 years of evolving technology we have at hand today, the TT fan can pick and choose the exact set up he wants, whether it be stocker, tricked up stocker or custom framed special. Along with the XL Honda and DT1 Yamaha, the TT Yamaha was arguably the most hot rodded bike in our sports history.
-
Along with the XL Honda and DT1 Yamaha, the TT Yamaha was arguably the most hot rodded bike in our sports history.
Also the TT/XT/SR engine is basically still in production ( Yamaha Japan's biggest selling road bike is SR400) so unlike the XL and DT or most of the older 2 stroke MXers you have 100% parts availability from your friendly local Yamaha dealer. Plus a number of after market makers still churning out cams, pistons etc. I really like the XL / XR engines for being compact but I don't think they hang together like a TT motor can.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/79_12-1.jpg)
-
Hi ola_martin,
Great craftmanship on your frame! The final product of your machine looks outstanding.
Do you please have any more info on the developement of that project?
Thanks
Bruiser
-
A little info here http://circa74.lefora.com/2010/12/09/olam-hl/#post13
-
Hi Ola
Wasnt it 79 when husqvarna went for 2 up tubes?
-
That's correct Oppet, I misstyped. :-[ Might even been an 80 frame also.
-
As Firko mentioned the Cheney XT500, there's something crawling back up on it's wheels in my workshop..... ;D
(http://api.ning.com/files/hflOaOhTpLnEA-xi7vi*BgoGIHIyzwc0WIFU4gP5MBfPqcQn1N2SxZdwawmnrPG6mSP9bRIiOjRRIjyww6wPxGbmAg9s3l5D/Cheneygold.jpg?width=737&height=552)
And no, I'm not going for that moped seat........
-
Thanks Marc. ;)
The RMswing I used on mine was also full widt front, I cut and reinforced it to make it go around, but probably possible to make a shorter oiltank also, or just scrap the backbone type and make a neat oiltank/airbox combo?
Hi Ola,
you did an awesome job on your frame and found a new use for a rusty fork leg ;D ..... I have simlar project coming up but trying to work out how to use White Brothers swingarm with full widh spindle in it, may build shorter oil tank.
And ended up with this
-
One of the rarer TT500 custom frame kits is the Hindall. The bike photographed was Harry Hindall's personal play bike and was owned by the late Bob Neilson who died not long after he took these photos. Harry was a master craftsman whose main gig was in the aerospace industry and only made frames as a side line, therefore his work is often overshadowed by the big names. If you ever get a chance to see a Hindall frame up close you'll be impressed by the superb metal crafting and welding.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/hindallttYamaha.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/hindallTT2.jpg)
-
So if you use a std frame does that still make it an HL ???
I think people get a little hung up on the HL thing, the TT motor has been fitted to a number of frames, Montesa, Maico, YZ even. The 500 motor is reliable, easliy available big 500, screaming out for better suspension and frame and the HL is the most successful but just one example of TT specials. None of which are probably perfect but the TT500 was always a bike that was a work in progress, with very few staying standard ..... because the original TT had a more than a few areas that could be improved upon
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/KR20500.jpg)
We could argue the pros and cons of various options but I reckon Marc's comment sums it up really well.
I like the way my stock framed bike is turning out but my ultimate would be a late Cheney twinshock.
-
Also Dick Mann made frames for this engine, nice ones.
(http://www.lt-racing.com/V3_DMS_A.jpg)
-
Also Dick Mann made frames for this engine, nice ones.
that is a neat looking frame, B50 tank really works well
-
Also Dick Mann made frames for this engine, nice ones.
that is a neat looking frame, B50 tank really works well
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Gci8htoHlpE/TPtyFWLKHjI/AAAAAAAALQY/-UFdMeWSJfU/s1600/V2DMSA.jpg)
-
That's a pair of mark 2 s
I've got a mark 4. Handles like a dream on muddy trails, which is all I've tried it on so far.
-
That's a pair of mark 2 s
I've got a mark 4. Handles like a dream on muddy trails, which is all I've tried it on so far.
I like both but think the Mk2 has a kind of nice traditional Brit frame look about it. Love the Cheney Ola sing out if you want to sell it..... seriously I need it to keep my other Cheneys company.
-
Here's another Dick Mann TT500, not sure what model.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Dick-Mann-TT500-special-019.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Dick-Mann-TT500-special-003.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Dick-Mann-TT500-special-022.jpg)
Even though I'm a Cheney owner and big fan of the 60's/early 70's stuff the old codger made, I don't particularly like his later products. That's just me thinking out aloud Ola....I'd still own yours in a heartbeat. 8)
-
Even if you don't like Ribi YZs Firko you have to admit that old Eric was always out on the perimeter some place and there are some distinctly Cheney things like anodised tanks that are cool.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/nw-4s_052.jpg)
-
Back to the subject later Husky gives you a straight back bone that will take a YZ125C tank with no special drama. Forgot whose bike this is, but you can see the build requires a bit less chopping the frame about.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/ed2.jpg)
-
Hey Marks, that YZA style HL/TT whatever is by far the best looking one Ive seen, pity he put the guard extender under the front guard. ;D
-
So if you use a std frame does that still make it an HL ???
For what its worth i think the std TT using TT tank and seat is a far nicer looking bike than those jacked up HL things ;)
As far as I am concerned, the only ones that can be called HL's are actual HL500's!
If you use a GMC or other HL replica frames then bike is a HL500 Replica.
If you use a C&J, Dick Mann, Cheney Frame etc, then it is what it is, but it is not a HL!
If you use a modified STD Yamaha frame then it is just a tricked up XT/TT500, it sure as hell ain't a HL!
Even though some people have called my Husky framed 500 a HL, I have always called it an Aberg Replica, in reference to the first Hallman & Eneqvist HL 500 made by Sten Ludin using an altered a Husky frame.
CJ
-
As far as I am concerned, the only ones that can be called HL's are actual HL500's!
Are they the Pro Tech, Hallman, NVT HL500s ?, I was hoping this wasn't going to degenerate into another tedious who can call what an HL500 discussion which we have covered in previous posts ad nauseum./
I believe we concluded that it was any bike that had been sat on by Bengt Aberg, built by NVT and excluded frame kits by Pro Tech and Hallman.
Maybe we should post some sort of disclaimer: for want of a better descriptive noun on which to draw comparison we are going to call bikes with TT500 engines in Husky frames HL500s, given that no offence is intended to those amoung us who have either been annointed as the chosen one OR happen to own an HL500 frame kit made by Pro Tech, NVT or Hallman.
-
Not recalling how the other endless discussions went, but my take is that the NVT 'production' bikes are the only ones that can legitimately be called an HL500. The ProFab frame kits were I believe marketed as Aberg Replicas. Any other stock framed bike made to look like an HL would be an HL replica or Aberg replica. But really, any TT500 with a few mods or a kitted frame is still a TT500. But I agree with Marc, these days HL500 could be used as a 'collective' label for any TT500 with a white and red tank and more than 7" of travel... ;D
That said, I love this thread for showing how many weird and wonderful combos could be built with the good old Yammie thumper.
-
While obviously there is no law or rule or as far as i know no patent or copyright on the HL name , surley out of good taste true enthusiast could respect the name HL and reserve it for the real deal . i can just imagine the bleatings of the experts if some poor sod stuffed a tm 400 motor into a different frame then showed it on here and called it an RN 400, or likewise a YZ 250G motor into a home made frame and dared to call it an OW :o
This thread has shown some great bikes and some very thoughtfull builds , but lets not use the HL name in vain aye ;)
-
While obviously there is no law or rule or as far as i know no patent or copyright on the HL name , surley out of good taste true enthusiast could respect the name HL and reserve it for the real deal .
Its a generic Bill, just like Crescent, Stilsons, Vice Grips or Condoms, the name of the originator stuck..... we could call them 'Replica's of Aberg Replicas' but that would be getting a little precious.
I think that the HL was a backyard special to start with and any backyard special with the same basic parts has remained HL..... if I was an NVT owner I would be flattered and thanking the kit builders ..... if it wasn't for this interest which in most part is down to Enquist, Hallman and Aberg kits, an NVT HL would not be worth what they are now.
-
Forget about the branding, back to the bikes.
Marc, that last Huskyframe is as I told you before, an earlyer frame than the double uppertube I used, not later. Pre -78. :)
Although the Hindall is a beautiful pice of work, I feel that that, mabe the DMS and some others are framekits to make the TT a better trailbike, but not primerely intended for mx.
I have more respect for the builders who dared to go all in, and put the heavy trailbikeengine to the mx-track, as the HL, Cheney, Hagon, ProTec etc.
Regarding my Cheney, I totally agree that the longtravel Cheneys really isn't very beautiful, but they, as all Cheneys have some sort of strange appeal to me. I'm really looking forward to seeing if I can make the bike look good, sure didn't when I got it.
(http://api.ning.com/files/PhgF5lMBAnZzMpBi6cxHpCL9w12l8nLO1b2qGe0gyXTwrKmuxj7xnY2ZoTMy4FETppPks9J4IWw8k9398UtxlS7Njm07Z-W5/no2.jpg?width=640&height=480)
Just finishing a fiberglass seatbase to fit the frame and a 76YZ125 foam, to get rid of the huge -75YZ250 seat that was there. Using Preston Petty rep. fenders to keep with the 70's specials era, but probably need to cheat and use red metallic instead of anodising as the tank is a bit dented. :-\
Also, I allways thought the FOX front are a bit misplaced on my HL-replica, so a pair of YZ-38mm's will probably go on there, and FOX front and rears on the Cheney.
-
Forget about the branding, back to the bikes.
Marc, that last Huskyframe is as I told you before, an earlyer frame than the double uppertube I used, not later. Pre -78. :)
I have more respect for the builders who dared to go all in, and put the heavy trailbikeengine to the mx-track, as the HL, Cheney, Hagon, ProTec etc. Regarding my Cheney, I totally agree that the longtravel Cheneys really isn't very beautiful, but they, as all Cheneys have some sort of strange appeal to me.
Completely agree, I still have another four stroke Cheney with a trail bike engine waiting for my attention. ;D I think old Eric was always out to build the next world beater which is why his bikes were so unique.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/DSCF4112.jpg)
-
Firko the mark 1 has chain adjusters on the frame and a simple swing arm, Mark 2 has adjusters on a similar swingarm. Mark 3 and 4 have ever more complicated box section steel swingarms with the shock placement moved forward. Mark 1 and possibly 2 designed to work with stock TT forks shocks etc
Mark 2[ part way through maybe] started to come with fiberglass side panels and tank after B50 stuff dried up
Later mark tanks are similar but not exactly the same.
I asked Dick Mann what the design philosophy was on the later bikes but didn't get a reply. He did kindly reply to an earlier e saying only 20 or so mark 4s were made, in 81 and 82. One turned up as a rolling chassis on the USA west coast a year ago. I identified it by the swingarm. The mark 4 shock is almost verical, mark 3 is angled.
http://www.lt-racing.com/html/dms_tt500_versions.html. Not up to date but the best resource
http://odinxt500.freeforums.org has quite a few DMS threads with pics once you join
-
Something a little different................
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/ttmoto.jpg)
-
for what it is worth, the lady you are all being very rude about is Marion Bazire. Fabrice Bazire's wife. You couldnt meet a nicer, kinder, generous, warm hearted woman anywhere. She has done more for the sport than all of you put together. She organised all the Beauval Classic Meetings in France and gave us all 20 years of the most spectacular scrambles meetings imaginable. When they had a break from the scrambles they organised classic trials and enduros. She really is a wonderful woman. The events in Beauval are the events against which all others are measured. Dont get me wrong there are magnificent events elsewhere, but Beauval is something special.
The bike in question was a present. Marion bought it for Fabrice. Sten Lundin bought it for him and delivered to France. It has been raced at Farleigh by another French friend and spent a week in my garage a few years ago. Neil Hudson serviced the front suspension on it. Other presents that Marion has rustled up for Fabrice was a new Lito engine for one of his many projects! (I wish my wife would buy my presents like this!!!!)
For anyone building an HL, I have new side panels. The mould was taken off my NOS pair that came from the Andover Norton sale many years ago. They are beauifully made in fibre glass and can be made with any colour gel coat colour you like by the best in the business. I have 2 pair of white and 2 pairs of US spec yellow.
-
Cranky is working in a very nice project to produce fibreglass tanks and when done they will be superb, contact him for more info. YZ125C tanks are getting hard to find, so cost effective replicas are the obvious solution.
If you want to push the boat out Fox front and rear is a nice treat, watch this space....
Seat bases and foams, all body work, motors, tuning kit, forks, frames, shocks wheels etc etc all readily available.
Time is the biggest thing lacking at this end at present, never seem to be enough hours in the day.
If you are on a budget, you dont have to go mad, as this thread shows you can have serious fun with an XT / TT based racer.
Loving the thread, seeing all the specials all the clever people who contribute to this forum are building.
Keep up the good work!!!!!!
-
lastly, I have got pics of all the parts and bikes, Sten riding the HL in France @ the classic enduro when he delivered it etc. Maybe 2012 will be the year I work out how to post them on the forum.....!
-
HI Flower Pot Racing,
Glad to hear from you :)
I seems like you have a wealth of knowledge on this topic, please share with us more information about HL 500, originals, copies and conversions etc...
Please dont hold back on sharing any leads for parts... and any pics that you can also share with us!
Bruiser
-
for what it is worth, the lady you are all being very rude about is Marion Bazire. Fabrice Bazire's wife. You couldnt meet a nicer, kinder, generous, warm hearted woman anywhere.
Did I miss something ??? ???, anyway the French have their own take on customising Tt/XT500s and for whatever reason both the Germans and the French go nuts over them. Japan has been customising them for years.
Anyways back to the thread..... heres a TT based one I built when I first got interested in VMX..... I finally robbed it of all its bits when I built the HL replica
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/DSCF3424.jpg)
-
Did I miss something
I was thinking the same thing....I had to go back over the whole thread and couldn't find any French references at all. Methinks a post or two may have done a runner. ::)
-
Did I miss something ??? ???, anyway the French have their own take on customising Tt/XT500s and for whatever reason both the Germans and the French go nuts over them. Japan has been customising them for years.
Anyways back to the thread..... heres a TT based one I built when I first got interested in VMX..... I finally robbed it of all its bits when I built the HL replica
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/DSCF3424.jpg)
Marc, good to see that you have vastly improved your bike building... that thing is truly butt ugly.
-
Marc, good to see that you have vastly improved your bike building... that thing is truly butt ugly.
Yeah hence the reason that bike bit the dust ::)..... but to make an omlete you have to break a few eggs. ;D like this one, good for the taller dude like my good self
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/225489_209448029095478_208718552501759_602143_6001951_n.jpg)
-
Geezus Marc.....what drugs where you on when that thing was hatched......makes that "swingarm of the gods" look pretty normal.....mate, some things are better left alone or forgotten about....be carefull opening anything that arrives in the mail in the next few months...even the Taliban will be wondering what retrobrution should take place ;D...I can see a gee-had coming... ;D
-
Marc, good to see that you have vastly improved your bike building... that thing is truly butt ugly.
Yeah hence the reason that bike bit the dust ::)..... but to make an omlete you have to break a few eggs. ;D like this one, good for the taller dude like my good self
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/225489_209448029095478_208718552501759_602143_6001951_n.jpg)
Ahh... much, much better!!! But seeing as it is only a 125, perhaps you should do a mansize one next time. ;D
-
The french made the Barigo
http://enduro80s.free.fr/BRT%20-%20VINTAGE/barigo.htm
used Honds Rotax and xt/tt 500 motors, targeted the Dakar
There were 4 at the last Beauval enduro, which I luckily managed to enter. Wonderful event, scuppered by the french federation now requiring a year licence and the weight of it's own popularity
-
for what it is worth, the lady you are all being very rude about is Marion Bazire. Fabrice Bazire's wife. You couldnt meet a nicer, kinder, generous, warm hearted woman anywhere.
Hell now I got it .... I thought it was a short pommy guy sitting in the background and was taking the piss..... not sure that makes it any better, all that talk of impersonating women on this forum.
anyways much heart felt apologies for being a retard to Marion who I have never met but probably just mortally offended.
-
Marc, good to see that you have vastly improved your bike building... that thing is truly butt ugly.
Yeah hence the reason that bike bit the dust ::)..... but to make an omlete you have to break a few eggs. ;D like this one, good for the taller dude like my good self
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/225489_209448029095478_208718552501759_602143_6001951_n.jpg)
That thing looks good except for the ridiculous gap between the rear tyre and guard.. :o
-
I'm not a massive fan of jacked up HL's neither.
10 inches of travel is enough, any more and they become uglier by the inch.
Marc's is far from the worst I've seen though.
-
Yeah they're basically a '77 model bike and look stupid when they're taller than a modern. A shorter pair of shocks will sort that one easily.
-
Maybe 2012 will be the year I work out how to post them on the forum.....!
Hope so, EARLY 2012 I hope.... :o
-
...be carefull opening anything that arrives in the mail in the next few months...even the Taliban will be wondering what retrobrution should take place ;D...I can see a gee-had coming... ;D
mate in 1978 that would have had me on the cover of MX Action and people would be fighting over what to call "swingarm of the Gods replicas' ..... in 2012 I just look like a sad case
-
Hi All,
A big thank you to to you all... for the many great Pics, advice, ideas, technical info and all contributions to this thread.
Thanks
Bruiser
-
A classic example showing that no matter what good stuff you have to start with, some folks will never, ever get it. This is how not to build a Cheney TT500 ;D
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Cheney.jpg)
-
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/Maicott500.jpg)
1978 Maico 500 4 stroke. Made by Vintage Iron and called The Hammer. It was specifically built to compete in the new AHRMA 4 stroke class. The 78 maico chassis is regarded as the best handling maicos of all time. It has been modified to accept a Yahama TT 500 motor while retaining the stock Maico appearance. The stock air box has been replaced with a custom aluminium oil tank. The engine has been completely restored with a freshly rebuilt high compression head, high compression piston, racing cam, ARD ignition, 38 mm Mikuni carb and a hand built ceramic coated pipe to compliment the potent engine package. The suspension is comprised of period correct and rules compliant Maico 38 mm forks with 9" of travel. At the rear is an original Thor swingarm with new 17.5" Works Performance shocks. All plastic is new and the frame and gas tank have been powdercoated for durability. The seat is a custom made with new foam and Maico graphic vinyl cover. Wide modern style foot pegs have been added for better comfort. A special folding tip hs been added to the brake pedal. Renthal bars, Magura lever assemblies Motion Pre Throttle and Oury grips. Bike is easy to start, fas t and sounds AWESOME. Only been ridded once. .Truly one of a kind.
-
I totally agree that the longtravel Cheneys really isn't very beautiful, but they, as all Cheneys have some sort of strange appeal to me.
I'll be the first to admit that Eric wasn't one to follow other builders trends, he set his own standards and you either loved or hated 'em.... I personally love (and own) his early productions, he really got the look just right, especially his tank to frame aesthetics. His later bikes might have worked OK but the tank is as ugly as a dog turd on the BBQ......................but I'd gladly own one like this
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/cheneyyammy.jpg)
-
We all have different taste, a tank doesn't have to have JessieJames WestcoastChopper curves to look nice. I spendt a weekend admiring the white bike above at Telford last year, and loved the simple factory look of the tank, it's sooo narrow and screams race!
And just to defend the owner of the yellowframed one, the tank is just a husky that was sat on the frame, not the one that's supposed to be there. And the swing is from one of Bengt Aabergs racebikes, that was put on there when the original broke back when the bike was raced in the 70's early 80's. But I totally agree on the look in the pic! :-\
-
I like and would happily own any of the bikes in this thread,all different and all very cool in their own way.
-
Yeah definitely you can end up with some odd looking creations, but we all have a balance between form and function ;D
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/untitled-1.jpg)
-
One for sale.
http://m.amsracing.com/product/969
-
Marks swapmeet.
http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/swapmeet.cgi
Hallman / Pro Fab - Banana style Aluminum Swing Arm - fits the Yamaha TT500 & XT500 's. Has Bronze Bushing already installed & is ready to go !!
ProFab Built Swingarm for Hallman / White Brothers / I believe D&G - and of course sold them under there own Name ( Pro Fab ). The Straight Arms were more common - The Banana arms were more Rare.
Please consider - This is a Brand New Arm - Its Not 35 years Old - It Hasent been though 100's or 1000's of MX Battles - It Doesnt have Metal Fatige - It hasent had the Drive Chain trying to saw though it for decades.
Its Brand New !!!
I can and Will ship Over Seas.
$750.
520-270-8188
Mark Palermo
Tucson, AZ, US of A
Registered Since 1/22/2009 | 840 Posts
Accepts: Cash, Check, Money Order
-
you wouldnt buy a wheelbarrow off this bloke,will sell you wrong item,incomplete item then wont reply to you-he has a rep in the usa for this as well
-
That's probably why his stuff sits there on Marks Swapmeet for week after week. I was negotiating with him to buy a bike but other US friends sent me big red flag warnings so we ended the negotiations. Ironically the bike's still for sale 3 months later.
-
Glad to see you're well Mark.
Not too sure about the avatar though ;)
-
Thanks Cranky (and everyone else who's sent me get-well wishes)......It's been an interesting three weeks learning how to drive a wheelchair without destroying the furniture and piss into a plastic bag but I'm back into hospital next Wednesday to hopefully hook the OEM plumbing back up again.I've been pissing razor blades for the last fortnight but I have to convince myself that each stone passed is one less fu*king up the plumbing ;).
-
I've been pissing razor blades for the last fortnight but I have to convince myself that each stone passed is one less fu*king up the plumbing ;).
So about 5 down 35 to go? :-[
-
As fastenating as Firko's bladder it is ::)
So back to TT500 variants, this is the White Brothers banana arm in question.... nice bit of bling for stock TT build but will not go in HL due to the oil tank.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/79_12-1.jpg)
-
I have the same swing arm white brothers 8)
But I havent tryed it on one of my TT500s yet
I have worked out a measurement for my rear shocks to suit the swing arm on a stock TT500.
370mm shocks seem to be a good length to suit the downward angle on the swing around 15deg from swing arm bolt to rear wheel axle.
But I have seen most white brother swing arms installed on a stock TT500 have long shocks they look around 400mm.
Just woundering how they perform with the longer shocks ???and steeper angle on the arm.
My DR500 I had . Had a step swing arm angle that made the rear feel stiff on small fast bumps because of the angle was to low.
The DR500 has a high spot on the frame where the swing arm bolts to thats makes a steep angle.
-
Mick 370mm is just fine I run 380mm and the chain runs across the top ofthe arm until about 1/3 travel. Plus with this arm the chain is slack all the time, max chain lenght is at full travell(bottom out)
-
Thanks curly, for the info on the shock lengths etc.
-
(http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab273/hotdogvintage/yamahaoctober2012089.jpg)
here is a photo of my variation, shown, at end of mock up stage and bottomend out checking for clearence.
still lotr to do! enjoy
-
Cool that could be one of those attractive short travel HL500s ;)
The TT500/XT/SR I think makes a great prospect for VMX bike as all the parts are still available
-
Pity all the Pictures have disappeared. Marco, are you making the side covers now? Will they fit on a standard TT frame?
-
I know these posts are from a long time ago.. but.. where is the gear change on that Yamaha engine.. ?? rear brake on the left..
-
Don't know if its much help, I started building this one a few years back but this is as far as I got before I moved to Tassie and the bikes still sitting in the shed on the mainland......IT465 wheels ( 17" rear ), engine mounts with help from Col J, swing arm is TS200X from about 2001, shortened about 2", almost perfect as far as wheel offset,etc.
(https://i.imgur.com/RCq4xFV.jpg)
Roger
-
It looks very unique. It would be good to see it finished.
-
Hi there
I am in the process of gathering up parts to build my own but 'with a twist'
I am wondering if anyone here who has built their own has any frame dimensions, critical angles. wheel bases, head rake, cad files etc they would care to share with me?
I sort of want to go with a DR750 or 800 engine, although they aren't heard of all the time there is a plethora of tuning parts available for them and they can be made to turn a ton of grunt.
Yes, electric start only will add a little bit of weight, but I plan to minimizeit where i can in other parts of the bike by using a lithium ion battery, titanium fasteners, pegs, lightening parts of the frame that don't need to be so beefy etc.
I already have a PE 400 swingarm, hopefully a lead on a pair of 44mm shocks (although if anyone can get hold of a set of fox air rears and simons or fox forx fronts, I would snap them up in a heartbeat) the motor and a few other bits.
I will be saving money by building as much of the bike as I can (the frame of course) and by using second hand rebuilt parts. and whatever donations come my way from friends.
I think this bike is gonna be a ripper (literally!) It's gonna exceed the roostertail height limit on every track it goes to! lol
Have fun guys.