OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: BEARVMX on November 09, 2011, 09:22:32 pm
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Gidday I'm not here to stir the pot, I'm just putting the feelers out - wondering why we aren't getting the numbers out there at the meetings like we used to. This is my 17th year racing vmx in Victoria. What do we need to get the numbers up or has vmx reached a level that only guys want to ride and not race their bikes? or is it financial, Please give me some suggestions that will get people interested again in racing or is it just the bloody weather! I'm hoping for the sake of Viper in 2012 we can get people attending races again, thanks Bear.
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I think its purely financial...
Brett
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Yes, I think it has - at least for the forseeable future.
That's not to say that the sport/clubs aren't viable, just that it has peaked.
There's a million reasons why, but some of the bigger ones:
1. Too much bickering. I'm not talking about CO2 tax threads on OzVMX (they don't help, but anyone who doesn't attend race meets because of that, has a problem), I'm talking about the eternal "Pre-90 isn't VMX/Yes it is", and club politics type of shit. We really just want to get out and rip up some dirt on our bikes - and the other crap makes it a drag.
2. The rise of internet communication, Vinduros and events like Classic Dirt and HBBB. Its so much easier to get your old bike 'fix' without going to races now.
3. The lack of promotion. ADB really pushed the VMX barrow hard in the early days. ADB and DA both kept it on the radar into the mid~late 1990s, but now we're damn near invisible in the mainstream.
4. The general trend for people to want shiny things. Virtually everyone who's on the edges seems obsessed with having a perfect bike to start racing - and then a VMX bike costs as much as a good modern, so they just go and buy the modern instead. This is society wide, and definitely not the fault of the VMX world. Add in a crappy economic climate and a lot of people being nervous about money, and there's lots of people choosing to wash their Falcoadore instead of spending $8k+ on a particularly indulgent toy.
There's many more, but that's my top four.
Buggered if I know what to do about #1 and #4.
#2 isn't really a problem, because there's probably more people in 'the scene', even if they're not VMXing.
#3 is something we could do better, but its hard to make a real difference - particularly as the magazine market is now so flooded and so 'trailbike' oriented.
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Well said Nathan, and l pretty much agree, spot on........
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"getting your old bike fix" at classic dirt is ok, but no where near as good as a race meeting.
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I think as the bikes get older so do the riders. I spoke to some VMXer's at a recent vinduro and they tell me that moto-X is getting tough on the body. They would prefer to ride vinduro's as the atmosphere is more laid back and non competetive. The running costs are also alot cheaper.
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Kenny, for some of us, yes. But I am seeing more and more guys who aren't so interested in racing. I wonder if they were reluctant racers, who were happy to be involved when racing was the only choice?
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"getting your old bike fix" at classic dirt is ok, but no where near as good as a race meeting.
The numbers at non competition events tend to speak for themselves, you always get a lot more numbers at a meeting if you throw in a non competitive class that doesn't need a comp license. The racing part actually probably does more to put people off as it comes with the whole politics and eligibility snits and cost.
But modern MX is also not doing so well, the cost of competing and entry fees went nuts .... now the amateurs are paying stupid money to ride a series to lure the 'pros' to the events/ young friend of mine was looking at $2500 in entry fees alone to ride a series in NZ. You may as well just pay your council rates and stay home with a carton.
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I think Nathan has summed it up very well , the reluctant racer is somthing i had never considered but it makes sense .
Quote Marc FX
The numbers at non competition events tend to speak for themselves, you always get a lot more numbers at a meeting if you throw in a non competitive class that doesn't need a comp license. The racing part actually probably does more to put people off as it comes with the whole politics and eligibility snits and cost.
Im not convinced that the racing part puts people off though , just attracts a different crowd . The eligibility deal would only put those off who want to play out side the rules . Without those eligibilty rules the whole thing would soon become a major clusterfork and drive more people away.
Many reasons why its currently in the doldrums , but if i had to pick one finance would be the major factor IMHO.
Quote Marc FX
But modern MX is also not doing so well, the cost of competing and entry fees went nuts .... now the amateurs are paying stupid money to ride a series to lure the 'pros' to the events/ young friend of mine was looking at $2500 in entry fees alone to ride a series in NZ. You may as well just pay your council rates and stay home with a carton.
Your dead right there Marc , the cost of modern in NZ is BS . That series your refering to is the NZ titles , I think im correct in saying that if you won your class aside from the title you took home approx 20% of your entry fee in prize money .
MNZ is apparantly a non profit organisation , and those running the show do all they can to squander what comes in to keep it that way .
I think they model themselves on the NZ govenment , and try to bullshit themselves they are a big player . Bleed the licence holders dry and spend it all on bullshit admin and hospitality for the boys .
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There is another thing that hasn't been mentioned.
I have been to a couple of organized trail rides recently and at the first there were 1500 riders.
How many pre 1990 bikes ?
One ;D [Me on my 86 KTM]
At the second ride there were 1000 riders.
How many pre 1990 bikes ?
One ;D [ Me on my 86 KTM ]
At the third ride there were 500 riders.
How many pre 1990 bikes?
Three :o
Me and my mate on our 86/WR's and a guy on a KDX.
All these rides are no rego so that is not a factor.
There is some new blood coming into the older bike scene but most of us are getting on and are living fond memories.
Pretty much a closed market I rekon.
Also these old bikes are for collecting and not riding [ not as good as a modern ::)] [ sarcasm]
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I think it's been easy to forget that as Walter notes, VMX is not just about racing, it's also about collecting/restoring/showing old bikes and memorobilia. I had just as much fun building up my collection of old dirtbike mags and reading them and reminiscing as I do racing. With the guys who rode/raced in the 60s/70s now into their 50s and 60s, the racing side has to become less viable. Simply because most bloke are not fit or healthy enough to race even semi-seriously once they get up there in age.
I seem to recall that Ray Ryan reckoned most buyers of VMX Magazine weren't racers, so he tended to cover a lot of the other side through articles about restos and the history of the sport. I see the same mix today.
The truth is, VMX is NOT just racing, and I think you'll find there are a Helluva lot of guys still just digging the scene but choosing not to race. The continued growth of Classic Dirt would seem to confirm that view, I think. That was what the Ning version of this site is meant to do - provide a place for people to post photos and videos and stuff and create special interest groups to discuss the less serious side of things.
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I think it's been easy to forget that as Walter notes, VMX is not just about racing, it's also about collecting/restoring/showing old bikes and memorobilia. I had just as much fun building up my collection of old dirtbike mags and reading them and reminiscing as I do racing.
Classic road racing has responded to the interest in collecting and restoring, with 'parading' being just as much part of the scene now in some countries as the actual racing. What you are talking about is a few non competition laps but what it has done has encouraged the owners of bikes that rare or mint to drag them out for a few gentle laps where they won't do too much damage.
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There are relevent points made by all above me, the most important being that when racing was the only game in town we had a captive audience but now that the Classic Dirt/Bonanza culture has become a major part of our scene along with Vinduros, the simpler option becomes the more popular.
For every 100 entries at a race meeting there's probably only 10 with a chance of winning by talent alone. The other 90% are there for the cameraderie and opportunity to ride the bikes that are such a part of their DNA. Racing's one thing but riding's the more dominant factor of their involvement so in many cases they'd rather take the non competitive, fun (and cheaper)option than fork out hard earned dosh on entries, insurance, licence and all of the other little cash grabs that go hand in hand with racing.
Another aspect that bothers me is that I believe there are just plain too many race meetings. If you factor Classic Dirt, HBBB, both motocross Nats, the DT Nats and emerging marquee meets like Mr VMX, It doesn't leave a lot of space for multi round club championships. HEAVEN presented nine rounds this year and VIPER had seven which when added to the big events doesn't leave a lot of downtime during the year. Is it any wonder that both clubs have reported a downturn in entries?
As we've been depressingly informed elsewhere on this forum, times are a bit tough right now. To be expected to travel to bike events up to and over a dozen times a year is taxing on wallet, family comittments and even on our beloved bikes. I'm loathe to suggest to either VIPER or HEAVEN that they need to cull the number of meetings but I think that both club series', especially HEAVEN would be more vibrant and easy to manage if a few rounds got the chop. Back when I had an input into the then only NSW Vintage club, Penrith's activities we ran four motocross and four dirt track rounds and it was more than enough. Remember that with the exception of the Nats and Condo Greybeards in June (which incidentally was absorbed two (DT & MX) of Penriths series rounds, the Penrith meetings were the only show in town. Today there's too many options for the VMX enthusiast. Cut it back to four rounds, promote two of them as marquee, must do meetings (for HEAVEN perhaps....CRC and Canowindra as the biggies and a couple more spread out throughout the season).
In a nutshell, the sport hasn't reached it's peak by a long way, it's just a little more diverse and scattered. ;)
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In a nutshell, the sport hasn't reached it's peak by a long way, it's just a little more diverse and scattered.
That's right - as we can see from the diverse opinions on this forum, one man's peak is another man's trough!
What do we need to get the numbers up or has vmx reached a level that only guys want to ride and not race their bikes? or is it financial, Please give me some suggestions that will get people interested again in racing or is it just the bloody weather! I'm hoping for the sake of Viper in 2012 we can get people attending races again
It'd be hard to pin down an exact reason for declining numbers at some events, as it varies from person to person. I started doing VIPER in 2002 but this year I made a conscious decision to drop it completely. The main reasons being time and money. I'll hopefully be back for at least a few rounds next year.
Tex
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VMX is like sex, the more you get the more you want ;D
worms
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The ongoing resurection of vintage Short Circuit may have taken a few away but there's always new people getting back into it.
Does seem there are a hell of a lot of events on the calender, maybe too much to choose from.
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As someone new to classic dirtbike racing, and being a few years past my riding prime, the thing that plays a BIG part to me getting out and riding is the preparation of circuits for inclement weather. I spend many hours building the bike in the garage, searching the internet for the rare parts to keep my bike in a rideable state. I am not going to pound it around in knee deep mud that will put me back in the garage again for weeks fixing the damage; aside from that, I ride for fun, I do not feel that it is fun wobbling around in bad track conditions.
This is why I have decided to create a purpose built VMX track at Broadford, where I have input and can try to keep it smooth, keep it dry so it is old bike & rider friendly.
Just how 'I' feel.
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The majority of riders, although they won’t necessarily agree, purchase & race a machine that they align with their youth.
If you look to the heydays of Pre65 to Pre85 VMX racing (National’s aside), which was probably 8 to 10 years ago, the average competitor age was somewhere between 30 to 45. For anyone trying to market a low dollar recreational product or service, having a demographic that targets, Male, 35 to 45 with access to a moderate disposable income is like having a gold mine handed to you.
Fast forward to 2011 & on average, if you were a 16 to 25 year old rider “back in the day” buying a new;
1960 to 1965 bike you would average out at 61 to 56
1965 to 1970 bike you would average out at 56 to 51
1970 to 1975 bike you would average out at 51 to 46
1975 to 1980 bike you would average out at 46 to 41
1980 to 1985 bike you would average out at 41 to 36
Take the nominal 8 to 10 years, the majority age demographic (as noted above) has moved from 35/45 in 1999/2000 to 45/55 in 2010/2011. This brings with it the issues around motivation to race, fitness & the one that gets lost with some people, the resistance to race a bike because it is becoming increasing difficult, and expensive, to get good quality replacement parts. Add the deterioration in its general condition over a 5 round winter race series and it’s not hard to comprehend why people don’t want to “race” their pride and joy.
The recent years success of HBBB & Classic Dirt starts to make sense as to why the numbers have climbed to the where they have, because amongst other reasons, the rider demographic has moved. People want to enjoy the sport with their mates without having to get up at 5:00 am to drive 2 hours to a race meeting and compete in sloppy, grinding paste conditions.
When you look at EVO racing the level of componentry & technology coupled with the hybrids simply scared some people away from the class. Add to that the inability of some committees to recognise the potential & growth in the Pre85 & Pre90 classes, it doesn’t surprise me at all that “competitive numbers” at races are dwindling at such a fast rate.
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Spot on Bahnzy, even if maths isn't your strongest point... :D
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I have to agree with all that's been said and i have said all this before.
From a sidecar crossers point of view we can't keep doing what we do.
I run a 1976 Wasp that was already well used when I got it. These frames were built for 1/2 of a GP season-i.e 4 to 5 months of flat out racing and training. Then they were to be sold on to clubmen to do 1 or 2 more seasons and then upgraded to a newer model.
My frame will be completely stripped, checked and repaired in the off season-this is why more and more of these frames are turning up in funky colours instead of the traditional nickle-chrome, once they have been repaired it's difficult to get them re-chromed properly.
As mentioned we need to have a couple of marquee events like HBBC, CD etc... and of course a couple of National 'racing' events but above that there should only be some local club events and displays.
These bikes are not getting any younger (nor are we) and we should be showing them to people that will appreciate them and get something in return for that.
I think too that a Goodwood type of event should be on the cards.
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Add to that the inability of some committees to recognise the potential & growth in the Pre85 & Pre90 classes, it doesn’t surprise me at all that “competitive numbers” at races are dwindling at such a fast rate.
Bang on I would say, finally what was not recognised is there has to be a cross over from modern MX to VMX at some point where the guys finishing their MX careers see VMX as a natural less serious, cheaper and less punishing alternative to riding moderns. If we want VMX to grow they are the riders that need to be targeted..... who knows retiring modern MX riders may lust to ride pre 65 bikes but I am not so sure ( has anyone ever asked them).... more likely they will want that 89 RM125 paddock basher they started on.
My idea is that the cut offs should advance annually, so next year it is possible to ride pre 91 dragging in another years worth of riders. With pre 78 and Classic classes we are really starting to move in that direction now. Then promote the shit out of VMX at modern meetings
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sorry, I didnt realise how serious this post was.
so Ill bugger off then! Worms
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I feel we need to go back to the original format at club level, when VMX first started, specially here in victoria we need to be one body, 5-6 round series pre 78 to pre 60s
keep viper as it is, with pre90 to pre80.
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5-6 round series
why do you have to have this format every year ?
cheers A
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I agree with marcFX 100% on his post 4 back. Classes need to be upgraded to keep newer riders coming into the fold , as a early 50 year old my era is pre 70 , pre 75 . I really don't think many 20 somethings understand our passion for the early bikes , but as mark said their first bikes where pre 85 , pre90 we love our first bikes why should we force them to forgo their era Iain
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Because it needs to change vmx247 for the better of the sport, I have been involve with this vintage movement from the day dot. Some People are funnel vision and don`t like change and are only focus on themself and not the sport in general, some people or club members atitude need to change and that is across board.
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I 'm just a fence sitter, BUT the political bullshit that goes with running an event has got to put people off. In dirt track for example i'm led to believe you can't race a slider in the same race as a mx er. What a load of crap!!! Have a look at the pics on photo forum( dirt track images). All in together and no probs. Bit of friendly rivalry but thats good. Whats different now? Oh that's right, different LINE . Silly me ::)
regards Mark
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I suppose us in the west that has a club based on every pre75 doesn't suffer with too many problems. It's just A, B, C, over55 and sidecars. Era means nothing. With the occassional feature race ie pre65, pre70 European etc. No rounds, no trophies, just damn good fun. Because what we all tend to forget sometimes that's what it is these days damn good fun
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VCM ran 6 rounds this year as it has for the last 15 + years, all events were well attended with numbers well up from last year.
Series cutoff Evo class, fast fifties also compete which boosts numbers by up to 20.
Fortunately weather was kind which helps, tracks were carefully selected to suit the older machinery and middle aged men that make up the majority.
Three x natural terrain and three x estabilished mx tracks groomed to suit.
My opinion leave the step up jumps, doubles, woops to the modern bikes and riders that enjoy the challenge.
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I forgot to add with being so isolated we still attract between 50-100 riders per meet and they run every third week, I think approximately 12 events during a season. not bad seeing as we very seldom if ever see an interstate rider
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I forgot to add with being so isolated we still attract between 50-100 riders per meet and they run every third week, I think approximately 12 events during a season. not bad seeing as we very seldom if ever see an interstate rider
I think WA does things differently but works really well, with a focus on a good days ride, no trophy's no ego, I know when I rode with T&E we could double the number of riders if we slung in a non competition class and the Adventure Rally would get hundreds.
I am not saying drop the racing but if you target the events and be pragmatic you could scoop up the non racing and attract the guys retiring from modern MX.
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so all you guys are on VMX committees around Australia, so all these good or bad ideas go to the punters, so the sport can go forward.
or is it just all hot air waiting for someone else, like Col, to do it for you? good question I think.
worms
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between Col and Freaky, I reckon our future is safe :D :D :D
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Thats a joke, good joke ??? :D :D :D :D :D
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I forgot to add with being so isolated we still attract between 50-100 riders per meet and they run every third week, I think approximately 12 events during a season. not bad seeing as we very seldom if ever see an interstate rider
I think WA does things differently but works really well, with a focus on a good days ride, no trophy's no ego, I know when I rode with T&E we could double the number of riders if we slung in a non competition class and the Adventure Rally would get hundreds.
My father formed the T&E club and within 12months was the largest club in WA and still is because it caters for the non-racer
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Add to that the inability of some committees to recognise the potential & growth in the Pre85 & Pre90 classes, it doesn’t surprise me at all that “competitive numbers” at races are dwindling at such a fast rate.
Bang on I would say, finally what was not recognised is there has to be a cross over from modern MX to VMX at some point where the guys finishing their MX careers see VMX as a natural less serious, cheaper and less punishing alternative to riding moderns. If we want VMX to grow they are the riders that need to be targeted..... who knows retiring modern MX riders may lust to ride pre 65 bikes but I am not so sure ( has anyone ever asked them).... more likely they will want that 89 RM125 paddock basher they started on.
My idea is that the cut offs should advance annually, so next year it is possible to ride pre 91 dragging in another years worth of riders. With pre 78 and Classic classes we are really starting to move in that direction now. Then promote the shit out of VMX at modern meetings
New to this scene only a year ago, there is no doubt to me that a large number of riders including myself are reliving the great times they had 'back in the day' by not only racing, but cleaning, preparing & looking at their favorite old bikes. It only makes sense that as we get older, what we want to get out of this movement will change.
marcFX I think you have highlighted a very good point. There is no status quo in life. Like any organisation or movement the VMX movement is either improving or it is declining. I think that if some of club officials restrict their membership to people who raced in the 60s, 70s & early 80s it is a dangerous call to make and inevitable the movement will die out as the riders fade away for various reasons.
While I love dirt bikes and I'm having fun, the experience could certainly be better for me. At the moment being a 1 bike owner it is annoying to put so much time & effort into preparing the bike & gear, packing up all the gear, getting to the meeting, organizing accommodation & cleaning the bike afterwards, then at some meetings I can only race a total of 14 laps! 2 x 4 lap races and 2 x 3 lap races. That is a lot of work for not enough 'time on the bike'!
Perhaps a solution for one club to cater to most people's needs is to grow as the potential audience grows but still cater for the needs of the original older guys by splitting the meetings between eras. Instead of 9 'all in' meetings a year, have something like this, 4 x separate points score meetings for the Four-strokes, Pre 65, Pre 70, Pre 75, & the Pre 78s & 4 x separate points score meetings for , Evolution, Pre 85s & Pre 90s & perhaps Pre 95. Ending the year with a Gala, 1 x 2 day all in Year End Final meeting & presentation.
The points score for each class could then be split over 5 rounds (perhaps double at the Year End event), lessening the burden on those who don't want to or can't make it to ride 9 events but still want to have the occasional race and factor in the points.
At the meetings you would then have extra time to have a more relaxed format, time for a 'Garage Queen' event & trophy, more time for the races (longer races for the younger and fitter guys), more races for your chosen class (especially if you are a 1 bike owner.) & Maybe an end of meeting all in 'Cast Iron Man' longer race for those who still need more riding time.
This would certainly work better for me. I would get more ride time for the huge effort I put into getting to the race meeting. If I had a year of busy commitments outside racing, I would only have to reserve 5 weekends a year to race the full years series. If I was free to race many events, as I already have an Evo bike I could get a pre 78 and race that series as well.
Those guys & gals who need more than 5 race meetings a year have these other events like Mr VMX, the NSW titles and the like to race or they could buy 2 bikes, which from what I can see is already fairly common.
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I'm more than convinced that less is best when it comes to VMX racing.
As with many things in life, the more we do something, the less 'special' it becomes. By running such a large number of rounds we run the risk of VMX overkill, too much of the same old, same old. Penrith club fell into that trap back in the 90's, running four VMX and four VDT meets per year. Eventually the rigors of travel, wear and tear on machinery and the costs involved, added to the apathy created by meetings becoming clones of each other, caused a rather abrupt drop in entries. Unfortunately it seems that the drop off in entries experienced by Penrith 12 years ago is being repeated today.
With Classic Dirt firmly entrenched as a 'must do' event, the Broadford Bonanza also gaining ground as another premier event, the Nats being split into two separate meetings and Mr VMX emerging as a potential marquee event, the keen NSW VMX enthusiast has 14 meetings to take up the six month race season. That equates to roughly a meeting per fortnight and that doesn't take any of the big vintage dirt track meets like the Nats and Penrith Charity meeting into the picture. Add them and you've got a minimum of sixteen ways to get your VMX fix.
I'm presuming that most competitors have family and other social comittments and a limited disposable income so no matter how devoted to the sport they are, they'll eventually begin to pick and choose the events that fit into their lifestyle and financial situation. Only the keenest, more financially comfortable and less family committed can play the full series, the result being that most of the club rounds will potentially have less than full entry lists.
In my 26 years of VMX involvement I've seen all sorts of ways of getting people to enter a meeting and in the end I reckon that it's the special meetings that will always draw the crowd. The legendary Condoblin Greybeards meeting from the 90's drew 200+ entries every year to a dull, nondescript little coutry town in the middle of NSW purely because the meeting was something special, it had a vibe like no other. It was what the sport was all about, a mix of dirt track on Saturday, motocross on Sunday and some of the best, hard core partying in between. 12 years later the 'something special' meeting is still the way to get 'em back. Using HEAVENS schedule as an example, the Canowindra Showground meeting and the Crawford River Classic show the best potential to be promoted as 'have to do' events. Pick two more from the remaining 7 rounds, drop the less popular and put full club promotional effort into pushing the two 'Marquee Meetings' and the other two events. Combine those four with Classic Dirt (in NSW next year), Mr VMX and both Nats and Classic Dirt / Broadford Bonanza and you've got a well spaced six meetings that won't eat up as much of your home brownie points and hard earned dollars. That schedule is a logical mix of racing and play riding events and leaves the odd weekend to race both big dirt track meetings if one wishes.
I'm totally convinced that a smaller, smartly run series with feature meetings hyped up will help to draw much larger entries. The huge number of bikes and riders at Classic Dirt and HBBB show that the VMX enthusiast scene is extremely healthy overall. We just need to offer those potential racers something attractive, a good reason to go to the races. As I said in my previous post, this isn't intended as a criticism of HEAVEN (or VIPER) so don't jump down my throat. I'm merely using HEAVEN'S meeting schedule as an example showing that by simplifying the schedule and drumming up the promotion, the punters will come back in droves.
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I agree wholeheartedly. When clubs like VIPER and HEAVEN appeared back in the late 90s/early 2000s, there were no other real options. But today there are just so many meetings, and some of those suffer with low entry numbers. A shorter series of several well run, blue ribbon race meetings combined with several high profile non-competitive outings would be ideal. And it'd be nice to see some decent vintage DT meetings as well.
Sure the committed racers may find that fewer meetings don't suit them, but then I think the positives would make up for that. Increased participation, lower stress on promoting clubs, more affordable racing. And it would be easier to really promote/publicise fewer meetings too.
However I guess I am speaking from some level of ignorance as the evidence appears to be that things are just fine in WA and Qld, and perhaps not too bad for clubs like VCM and CSC in Victoria?
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Graeme - whilst things aren't too bad in WA really there isn't a lot of choice either (not a complaint WA a comment). Lots of meetings to be had but the "marquee" one as Firko speaks about is Wandering where everybody comes out of the closet ;D
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you guys can sure type,
I just think its a reflextion, is the cup half full or half empty?
it will grow some, then it will wane a bit, a changing of the gaurd, sort of thing.
if only i were a wordsmith,
cheers worms
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1:Surley the series/round cost of the trophies involved could be cancelled for a year and that money go back into the club members to get a legend rider inn etc.
2:Better placement and less of such officals:ie scorers/officals.
The way I look at the east coast vmx/evo/retro its run like our modern,not that there is anything wrong with that.Its just that committee's are workin there butts off all year :P
Graeme - whilst things aren't too bad in WA really there isn't a lot of choice either (not a complaint WA a comment). Lots of meetings to be had but the "marquee" one as Firko speaks about is Wandering where everybody comes out of the closet ;D
Pre85's had a full calender in 2011..They where invited to alot of premier events :)
Watch this 2012 calender -everytime you come back on shore Rosco, ya better have that stead ready ;D
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For now forget about competitor costs (bike & entry), forget about the class structure even forget about competitive Vs non competitive events, look to the foundation of the competition side of the sport and you will find what I believe to be the crux of the situation, the MA associated costs, the clubs and the committees that run them.
Using Victoria as an example, the ability to secure a track and the infrastructure to support a VMX event in most recent times has become extremely difficult. Unless you have an insider within the respective club you can almost forget about it. If not for people like Dawn, Mick & Sagg’s amongst others within their respective clubs, you wouldn’t even get an event of the ground.
The cost for a MA race day permit is $400 for an Interclub permit and a further $300 ($700) for an Open permit. Add the costs to prepare the track along with obtaining a first aid provider on site and an organising club is probably staring down the barrel of $1000 to $1500 just to stage the event. If you’re hoping to attract 60 riders to an event then $20 plus dollars of the typical $50 entry fee is gone. Add to that any addition costs such as trophies and water trucks then any money that the club could make in profit, to return back into the club for capital works, has evaporated. It’s no wonder that clubs politely decline the offer to run a competitive event.
Then the club has to battle with local councils regarding how many days they can actually run in a given year, so why would a strong modern motocross club give up one of their allocated days to host a VMX event that they get nothing out of.
And the last hurdle, the true bloods, the heart of a motocross club, the volunteers. The people who we ask to stand on a corner in either stinking hot sun sucking in dust or getting wet to the bone on a rain soaked day (rarely do we have something in between nowadays) to officiate on our day of fun. Getting these people has become almost impossible and has been the cause for more than a few race days to be cancelled.
Think past the race schedule/program, how much it costs for the competitor on race day and the preparation of the bike and look to the foundation issues within the sport that have bought about a discussion such as this.
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I think you have hit the nail on the head Banhzy we have had this problem all year the clubs say they will hold a round as long as we all bring someone to help Flaggie. Most riders come by themselves and ride back to back races or have two bikes just to make the day viable in terms of track time, its a bit hard to help and then work on bikes or have a rest.
A few riders do try to help some have even missed races to do so, others say why should I help when I have payed to race and the club is getting the money and useing the paying riders to help. Even on club practice day you must bring a person to help or miss one practice and do it your self.
Whats the answer I dont Know maybe cheaper track permits for Vintage meetings or something who knows?
I am in no way bagging the clubs here as Viper has had great support from clubs over the years and they are in the same boat even on club days.One of our rounds was cancelled this year as the club could only get 5 or 6 people to help out on the day ?
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Mr Bahnzy,looks like it all comes down to an accumulation of issues to weather VMX has reached its peak or not,so perhaps the answer is that we are on a plateau at the moment..
Nothing wrong with that of course, just means we have to dig in,help out,support each other and put a bit of extra effort in.....not that hard 8)
cheers A
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Having been a Heaven member for many years and a Viper member for the last two, I have seen how things are done differently in each state. I didn't get to many Viper races this year and am guilty for not helping out the numbers. I think that having VCM and Viper as two seperate entities is a mistake. If there was one organisation using tracks that were vintage friendly then the numbers would be much higher - making the events more financially viable. Race day formats and flagging arrangements like Heaven have would certainly help with issues such as flag marshalls. I really like the two day format that Heaven have where the Saturday can be a free ride day and Sunday being the race day.
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Vcm & CSC, I would like to see it all convert back to the victoria Vintage classic Title as it alway was. As it stands the currant meetings has no meaning and substance behind them.
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Hi Wallie, what do you want to see convert back, the classes??, the tracks??, the original title ( Victorian Classic Motocross Register)??? The only thing different is the word “Register” was removed. The tracks will change according to whatever clubs are willing to hold a meeting. The classes change as people stop riding one class and start riding others... eg: and it’s only an eg: why put on a pre 60 race with one rider in it, a pre 65 race with two riders in it & a pre 70 race with two riders in it when you can have them all in one class.
And… I’m not sure what you mean by ”no meaning & substance behind them”?????
On another note…
Stevo17…VCM & Viper run quite a few classes. To have them run together, you end up with over 63 races for the day. With no hold ups, accidents, riding back to back races, 63 races x 10 minutes a race = 10.5 hrs
A little bit too long. Some people have bikes for series, some for the VCM & some for Viper. If combined, which classes do they support? Some classes would end up suffering.
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I would like to see 5 round Victorian vintage state Title, pre 75, pre 78, only. (no Viper they are with pre 90.) I am not commenting on the name register.
5 good natural terrain track and strong meeting, forget the rest, bring vcm and cSc back as one.
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Suzukal - combining some classes can reduce the number of races on the day. There is no point having races with 2 or 3 bikes in it. I ride pre85 250 and hopefully 500 next year. I did one 500 race this year and it had 4 bikes. Heaven have pre85 all powers and it is a blast. A couple of years ago at Crawford river we had 44 bikes on the grid as Evo were allowed to ride up an era. Now that is some serious fun into the first turn.
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You have to try and cater for everyone. Five natural terrain tracks would be great for those that want that but what about those that want jumps and berms. There are those that hate grass tracks & others that love them.
The VCM organises with different clubs around the state to hold a round for the Classic Motocross Series. They try to make it three natural tracks & three MX tracks. But it’s up to the club in the end, if no club wants to hold a natural terrain race, you end up with MX tracks.
The VCM & CSC were never one, the VCM is a committee that organises a series of races & CSC is a club that use to hold a race in that series. The CSC are able to ride any VCM race event & are more than welcome to hold a round of the series.