OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: lyle2212 on November 04, 2011, 03:44:00 pm
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Just sitting at Perth Airport after arriving from Sydney waiting for my connecting flight up north to the mine site. I had an interesting conversation with the person sitting next to me on the flight over ,who said that he was warned 6 months ago to use up all his Qantas frequent flyer points before it,s to late....Alan joyce "that potato eatin F..k" has given himself a 70% wage increase while bleating about how the Unions are strangling Qantas because the workers want a 9% wage increase over a 3 year period. If we are to believe all the propaganda we read in the government controlled media,then the unions are the bad guys holding the country to ransom. When the real reason why they are fighting is for the survival of Australian jobs. And it,s not just a few Baggage handlers, it,s Everyone...Pilots, Engineers included, who are fighting for survival while this Irish wanker and his cronies are outsourcing all of our jobs overseas......
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propaganda from the government controled media
WTF are you thinking, the Daily Telegraph new BEFORE the PM and transport minister, Joyce rang John Howard on wednesday before the grounding.
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Yes we Know all that ,but the majority of newspaper reports are anti Union...............
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With all due respect Lyle, I think you contradicted yourself when you said the government controlled media was spreading propaganda blaming the unions.
The goverment, for now, is Labor, Labor is the Unions.
I totally agree that Joyce's pay rise is disgraceful no matter what the circumstances.
There hasn't been real job security in Australie since the 60's, we still haven't come to grips with that fact.
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Labour is for the Unions eh...so tell me ,how many of Howards Work choice laws have they changed since they have been in power???
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Excuse my ignorance but it was my understanding they changed it completely, Julia took it on herself.
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Don't underestimate the potato muncher. To me he is starting to look liKe the next in a long line of rip-of merchants we've seen in oz over the last few years; the M.O. is, sell your own shares ,give yourself a bonus, strip the company or let it sink then "GOOD BYE"
Remember Clyde eng.,A.N.I Perkins, A.W.A., Telstra, off the top of my head.
The same trick with govt. departments, they put in an accountant as G.Manager, who cuts maintenance etc, saves 3% in their short time tenuer then disapear with a bonus.
cheers pancho
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The changes from Work Choices to Fair Work are relatively minor in the actual functionality of the legislation. The most significant change was returning Union powers and changing names and the landscape but most of work choices remained unchanged because most of the legislation was needed and fair. Most of Work Choices was the same as the previous legislation.
I work in a semi Government, mostly unionised, organisation and am currently a Union member. The whole Work Choices scare was another Labor spin to get elected which was funded by the Unions because the Unions hated work choices for their own reasons not their members. Work Choices mainly attached Union powers. Why am I a Union member? I question that daily in the last few years >:(.
The examples used by the Unions to demonise Work Choices during the '07 election actually took place before Work Choices came into operation. There have always been bad employers and always will be, the same as there has always been bad employees and always will be. You cannot legislate that out of the system.
I feel that I have been disadvantaged by Fair Work Australia but the Unions are more than happy so no mention of it anymore. I am sure that many will disagree with this post and they are entitled to do so and are free to continue cuddling Julia as long as they want. That’s if Krudd does not knife her in the next few weeks ::). Then we can get back to lossing our way again (isn't that why Julia knifed him) ::)
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Well said Monty, I haven't been a member of a union for 20 years and hope I never have to.
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There's not much for me to disagree with in your post, Montynut...
The whole Workchoices thing shows how much Howard hated the idea of organised labour - fortunately, the public saw through that much, and turfed the old prick.
Sadly, the rolling back of that legislation was only about reinstating union power and didn't fix the real issues in IR law.
The day will come when Gillard will be vilified for how little she did.
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There's not much for me to disagree with in your post, Montynut...
The whole Workchoices thing shows how much Howard hated the idea of organised labour - fortunately, the public saw through that much, and turfed the old prick.
Sadly, the rolling back of that legislation was only about reinstating union power and didn't fix the real issues in IR law.
The day will come when Gillard will be vilified for how little she did.
Nathan I don't know how you took anything I said as indicating Howard hated anyone. I don't know about anyone else but the three most frightening periods for my financial and feeling of national security and from a poor leadership perspective during my almost 40 years in the work force have been the three times that Labor have been in power. The best of the three periods where the Hawk years due to the utter incompetence of the Whitlam period and even that is completely shadowed by the current mob of bungling inept criminals . Most of the reforms Hawk/Keating (to their credit) introduced where contained in a report commissioned by the previous Government and all the major reforms where supported by the Coalition Opposition of the time.
Please do not infer your ‘rusted on’ beliefs into anything I said. You know very well my political persuasion.
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I wish I joined the union. I've never been a member of one but not joining one has hurt me financially. But as management its difficult for me to join one with any teeth.
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Just sitting at Perth Airport after arriving from Sydney waiting for my connecting flight up north to the mine site. I had an interesting conversation with the person sitting next to me on the flight over ,who said that he was warned 6 months ago to use up all his Qantas frequent flyer points before it,s to late....Alan joyce "that potato eatin F..k" has given himself a 70% wage increase while bleating about how the Unions are strangling Qantas because the workers want a 9% wage increase over a 3 year period. If we are to believe all the propaganda we read in the government controlled media,then the unions are the bad guys holding the country to ransom. When the real reason why they are fighting is for the survival of Australian jobs. And it,s not just a few Baggage handlers, it,s Everyone...Pilots, Engineers included, who are fighting for survival while this Irish wanker and his cronies are outsourcing all of our jobs overseas......
Not a red rag flying unionist by any chance are you Lyle?
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Joyce will take a big payout and never be seen in Australia again,seems to be the way it works :'(
cheers Dale.
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Joyce will take a big payout and never be seen in Australia again,seems to be the way it works :'(
cheers Dale.
Aint that the truth, he'll just hop across the ditch & do all the same good work for air new zealand after the post election sell off >:(
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Gough loves Julia, because he is no longer the worst Prime Minister in Australian history.
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She makes everybody look good, even Rudd....if we didnt have a dodgy labor lover Govner General she would have been the 2nd Prime Minister to be kicked out of office....when she starts ranting "bring it on" in her screeching witch like voice It just makes my blood boil, she belongs on "house'os".....she acts like a gutter tramp and probably gave her fair share of "favors" to get where she got...shes an enbarassment to the country.
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Montynut, the secret is in the double-spaced paragraph - two quite seperate points in my post.
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what is with australasia we had aunty Helen you have the ginga ninga?
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It's a well laid out plan. Qantas has to be Australian owned. For some time they have been shuffling all the money into Jetstar. The plan is to send Qantas down the gurgler and reopen a new airline in Asia using cheap labour etc. and leaving Qantas as a former shell of itself.
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the labour party isnt union anymore,they just like to have unions think they are.i was in a union once-had to be to get on to sites,when i needed them ,(i was a subbie foolishly owned a truck) the union,TWU, didnt do jack shit to help,had to resort to the physical to get paid,helps when you are my size sometimes.the same union then threatened me with court proceedings when i didnt renew my membership-they still invoice you because evidently they couldnt find my letter of resignation.in the end i was given the ph no of a union hating govt official who helped me out
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Montynut, the secret is in the double-spaced paragraph - two quite seperate points in my post.
No secret Nathan your paragraph spacing and layout is completely standard letter structure and contains nothing special to signify some special meaning or implication. Your post suggests that you are adding to my post not putting an opposite view.
Your hatred of John Howard is totally your opinion which is your right and that right is a corner stone of our democracy. Even the present Labor / Greens abomination has yet to remove that right although they appear to be trying to smother free speech. Their media investigation is just that, an attempt to control the media it is being driven by the Greens but the Labor party are completely complicit in that move.
The questioning during the Qantas inquiry by Senator Doug ‘Jock' Cameron, a complete ‘A’ hole that I worked with for 3 years a couple of decades ago, is a perfect example of the standard of person who rises through the Labor machine. They are given an unelected position because they are unelectable. This guy used his union and his positions within them as a personal vehicle to his own advancement.
During the Hawk and even Keating years the Labor Party dragged itself out of the type of thuggery that Unions had been famous for. It has taken only 15 years for it to slip even further into the current disgusting state of affairs.
What happened during the airline pilot's strike when Hawk was PM?
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If we are to believe all the propaganda we read in the government controlled media,then the unions are the bad guys holding the country to ransom. When the real reason why they are fighting is for the survival of Australian jobs. And it,s not just a few Baggage handlers, it,s Everyone...Pilots, Engineers included,
Yeah and its not like the Australian's were doing those jobs badly...... they had to force land another A380 yesterday. It was the airline with absolutely the best safety record in the world and the
only reason they have never lost aircraft now in through the grace of god.
As an island nation Qantas is part of the national wealth and should stay that way. The Aussies that they are trying to get rid of at the moment are the same ones Joyce and his cronies will have his hand out to as tax payers when it goes ass up. I am all for organised labor in these cases, they are the voice of the people.
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No secret Nathan your paragraph spacing and layout is completely standard letter structure and contains nothing special to signify some special meaning or implication. Your post suggests that you are adding to my post not putting an opposite view.
Look, its easy: You made a point which I agreed with, and then added my own seperate but related point.
Apart from my taking a shot at JWH, I'm surprised you found anything to object to in that post - I pointed out that the change from WC to FWA was actually pretty useless and superficial (and well short of what most voters believe it achieved).
The union movement* was on a rapid slide into obscurity until Howard remembered a decades-old grudge and gave them renewed purpose/focus. Apart from the union movement's own failings**, Hawke's/Keating's Accord was a big step toward reducing the need for unions in this country. Howard was a silly old prick because he obviously felt the need to stamp his authority over them - and it backfired. He could have gone a lot further toward his own goals if he'd had some humility and tact.
Let's not forget that there was some seriously nasty crap in WorkChoices, including the legalising the detention of Aussie citizens and holding them for a fortnight without charge. Regardless of what people think of the union movement, this sort of shit was rightly rejected by Australian voters.
We haven't "slipped further" into anything. The Qantas industrial action was not a patch on what happened during the Patrick dispute. Remember the yearly (threat of) strikes from Auspost just before Xmas? Etc etc.
Its often overlooked, but the height of the pilots' action was wearing the wrong coloured tie and making announcements over the plane's PA - hardly "bringing the company to its knees", and certainly not something that could be fairly justified as the actions of an unruly mob...
*There's no doubt that there are shitty jerk-off union officials, just as there's no doubt that there's shitty jerk-off bosses. But I do object when unions are generalised/demonised - its just as stupid as saying that all bosses are nasty pricks.
**"Trade" Unions in 2011? FFS, tradies haven't been the working poor for a long time now... *shakes head in bewilderment*
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Yeah and its not like the Australian's were doing those jobs badly...... they had to force land another A380 yesterday. It was the airline with absolutely the best safety record in the world and the
only reason they have never lost aircraft now in through the grace of god.
As an island nation Qantas is part of the national wealth and should stay that way. The Aussies that they are trying to get rid of at the moment are the same ones Joyce and his cronies will have his hand out to as tax payers when it goes ass up. I am all for organised labor in these cases, they are the voice of the people.
Apparently, Qantas have a habit of repairing written off planes to keep their stats looking good. Sometimes those planes are never flown again, but the stats look good...
From another forum:
VH-OJH 747-400 went off hte end of the runway in Bangkok approx 300 mil damage and needed 3 engine changes and a whole new nose section from behind the front nose gear, also left hand wing gear needed replacing. This was to save the hull being clased as a write off (safety record).
VH-OQA A380 is still in singapore and is scheduled to be finished by December 2011. Airbus didn't have a repair scheme for the holes through the lower main wing plank and front spar. Best estimates so far are 180 mil
There are more.
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The thing that's struck me in the last day or two:
I'm an Aussie who doesn't own lots of shares in Qantas.
I can't think of how I'd benefit in the slightest if Qantas is moved partly/significantly/wholy overseas, or allowed to be wound down - but I can see how I'd suffer (indirectly) if that happened.
Therefore I support Qantas staying here - and ultimately I 'have to' support the job security claims from the Qantas employees, and reject the desires of the CEO & board.
Apart from political/financial ideologies, I wonder how any other Australian could come to a different conclusion?
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Good on you NATHAN for painting a clearer picture on how the situation really is . I can recall a few years back when Qantas started to service it,s fleet overseas to save money that Dick Smith warned Australia that it was only a matter of time before Qantas would have their first airline tradgedy.
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http://www.perthnow.com.au/business/opinion/unions-qantas-fight-not-about-money/story-fn8t4my5-1226186173946
FWIW.
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What Alan Joyce did to Qantas and its customers last week is inexusable and totally unnacceptable under any circumstances, ever. How can someone who earns $5 million a year think that this was not only the best course of action, but the only course of action available. Australians don't like being pushed into a corner and I think a few are already voting with their feet.
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Good to see all the red raggers coming out a usual. ::)
The bottom line is this:
If you owned or were the manager of a business which is losing money hand over fist due to protected union action and the only way to prevent this continuing was to get the dispute taken to Fair Work Australia, wouldn't that be the most responsible action? Of course it is.
The judgement by Fair Work Australia in terminating the dispute made it clear that Qantas would not have been granted a termination and subsequent forthcoming arbitration on the weight of the union's actions alone. THAT's why the grounding was necessary under the FW act. Of course, the Minister DID have the power under the act to terminate the industrial action and prevent the grounding happening at all, but that would have not given the Government the ability to demonise Qantas and support the unions.
The inconvenient truth that Tony Sheldon is using the Qantas dispute and the baggage handlers as pawns in a game to bolster his chances of being elected president of the Labor party is not reported widely by the "love media" of course.
Lastly, the racist comments by many in the media about Allan Joyce's accent are a stark contrast to those NOT made about Doug Cameron's equally obvious (non-Australian) accent. Wonder why? ::)
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Why didn't Qantas management even try for arbitration? Protected industrial action is quite difficult when matters are being arbitrated...
The rules are the rules. Joyce's arrogance meant he couldn't handle playing by the rules (because he was losing) and he worked out a way to side step them.
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You didn't read my post properly did you?
The Fair Work judgement made it clear that the option of arbitration would have been rejected if Qantas had applied for it, based on the Union actions only. Supposedly that is also why the goverment did not intervene either.
Grounding and potentially doing damage to the national economy was the only action which the (flawed) Fair Work act would allow artbitration to occur in this instance. Something Allan Joyce pointed out in the senate hearing.
The cause of this whole debacle is in fact the flawed Fair Work act, written incidentally, by a certain Prime Minister. ::)
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The REAL bottom line is: $550 million profit for this financial year is not a company loosing money hand over fist. Even Lehmann Bros would be able to understand that.
I don't know that highlighting Joyces Irish heritage is necessarily racist [very poor form yes, but to pull the racist card is a bit strong]. And Cameron is just a self absorbed knob who is a lowly bit player in this sorry saga just trying to have his moment in the sun before it all passes him by.
The move by Qantas to bring the dispute to a head [using your words] completely ignores the paying public. They were treated as pawns and if that is the way to protect a business then it displays a unique perspective on the process. That is the core problem, both the Qantas board and the unions are playing each other and forgetting that the paying public might just get sick of both of them and go elsewhere.
It's just a game by both sides - the ideological board versus the unions - playing their respective roles to a tee. To suggest that this is some major union/management stouch is a furphy - it is small potatoes in historical terms. You run a big company with significant union employees it is going to happen one day - simple reality - and if Joyce didn't realise that when he took the job then maybe he is a fool.
Tony Sheldons desire to further his career is no different to Leigh Clifford trying to further his ideology at the expense of shareholders, passengers and staff. Both men should be held to ridicule for their selfishness.
As for the Minister not acting, as of the day before the Shut Down the Qantas board was saying publicly that they were negotiating with the unions. Why would the minister intervene at that point - no minister of either side of politics would.
And I don't even know what the "love media" is, but I am guessing that they are the ones not supporting your point of view.
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Not a word about the insurance company who this week pulled the plug and moved their complete operations overseas.
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You didn't read my post properly did you?
The Fair Work judgement made it clear that the option of arbitration would have been rejected if Qantas had applied for it, based on the Union actions only. Supposedly that is also why the goverment did not intervene either.
Grounding and potentially doing damage to the national economy was the only action which the (flawed) Fair Work act would allow artbitration to occur in this instance. Something Allan Joyce pointed out in the senate hearing.
The cause of this whole debacle is in fact the flawed Fair Work act, written incidentally, by a certain Prime Minister. ::)
That's the point. The rules were clear, but only one party thought they were above them. And yet you're trying to demonise the unions?
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Firstly, the $550 million profit of Qantas was before union action was taken. It is a reflection on the skill and expertise of Allan Joyce and his management team of course, as many other airlines are not making any profit. The fact that Qantas made that much money is in spite of the fact that they lost $200million in the International section of the airline. However $550 million is NOT a large profit for a company the size of Qantas, it represents a very small return on the capital invested and shareholders have not received dividends for 2 years now. Surely it is the role of management to try and provide the owners of the company with a return on their investment?
In additaion, the $15 million dollar a week loss that was being caused by the union strike action amounts to $780 million per year, which clearly would put Qantas in the red for this year wouldn't it? No responsible management should allow such a situation to continue.
The unions upped the rhetoric (and thus the ante) immediately following the Qantas board meeting, which didn't of course go the way they wanted. They indicated that they would continue the industrial action for a year if necessary. Allan Joyce was clearly faced with no alternative and acted accordingly.
The really crazy thing about this whole deal is that the union workers rejected a pay rise offer from Qantas management which would have given them a 15% advantage over similar workers in Virgin and Jetstar. ??? Where's the logic in that? ::)
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What Alan Joyce did to Qantas and its customers last week is inexusable and totally unnacceptable under any circumstances, ever. How can someone who earns $5 million a year think that this was not only the best course of action, but the only course of action available. Australians don't like being pushed into a corner and I think a few are already voting with their feet.
Certainly an act of 'bad faith'. I suss it would be illegal in some form - breach of contract??. I notice there has been talk of compensation. Depending on how far the compensation reaches it could be a 'pretty penny' - or PR 'soft soaping'.
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Firstly, the $550 million profit of Qantas was before union action was taken. It is a reflection on the skill and expertise of Allan Joyce and his management team of course, as many other airlines are not making any profit.
Yep, Joyce and the other suits do all the work. None of the other staff contribute at all, they may as well not turn up as they wouldnt be missed.
And the Qantas board have delivered for their shareholders 10 fold [NOT]. Shift assets to JetStar, gain political leverage to pursue ideological ideals. Passengers expendable, staff expendable, executive renumeration priority. Not one Jot of leadership, or value adding to the brand or business. Piss poor performance.
Ajay, I know you a simple man who loves to see things as BLACK AND WHITE. I.e.: Management - GOOD, Unions - BAD. Liberals - GOOD, Labor - BAD, Kawasaki - GOOD, Yamaha - BAD. If only life was as simple as you dream the world would be so much easier to understand.
How about we make the good guys wear White Hats and the Baddies wear Black... to save confusion
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Thanks for the personal attack. :(
No further comment.
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And the Qantas board have delivered for their shareholders 10 fold. Shift assets to JetStar, gain political leverage to pursue ideological ideals. Passengers expendable, staff expendable, executive renumeration priority. Not one Jot of leadership, or value adding to the brand or business. Piss poor performance.
It's a brave New World ;).
These are the tenets of Capitalism.
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Thanks for the personal attack. :(
No further comment.
It wasn't intended as a personal attack, any more than your slightly dismissive, parental tone to Nathan was intended to be rude. You feel free to play the heavy to defend your opinions but struggle to acknowledge that there could be two [or even many more] sides any story that are equally relevant.
Qantas isn't 100% right in its stance in this situation - neither are the Unions. As always the truth, if there is any, lies somewhere between the 2 poles.
Who is right and wrong will probably never be known, we will probably only know the winner in the PR stakes. And that is never BLACK and WHITE.
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It is a reflection on the skill and expertise of Allan Joyce and his management team of course, as many other airlines are not making any profit.
.... shareholders have not received dividends for 2 years now.
So are they good managers or poor ones?
The workers rejected the pay offer because they are asking for job security.
Even in your imagined capitalist utopia, do you really expect people to shrug their shoulders and say "yeah, moving my job overseas id crap for me, but its good for the company - I'm all for it"?
I can't think of how I'd benefit in the slightest if Qantas is moved partly/significantly/wholy overseas, or allowed to be wound down - but I can see how I'd suffer (indirectly) if that happened.
Therefore I support Qantas staying here - and ultimately I 'have to' support the job security claims from the Qantas employees, and reject the desires of the CEO & board.
Apart from political/financial ideologies, I wonder how any other Australian could come to a different conclusion?
My question mark was meant to indicate that I was inviting comment...
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I love it when Jeffy and AJ have a lovers tiff ;D.....I'm with you AJ, I'm just a dumb motor mechanic and 95% of the shit that comes out of Jeffy and Nathans fingers just confuses me more....both of them need to get real jobs and use/misuse there interlect on people with the same intelligance cause its wasted on us!! ;D.....bring back JOH.....you'd be surprised how many people are now saying he was a visionary and very smart cookie with the "people's" money.
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OK John, here's a really simple task:
Explain to me how you and I will benefit if Qantas moves overseas.
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I love it when Jeffy and AJ have a lovers tiff ;D.....I'm with you AJ, I'm just a dumb motor mechanic and 95% of the shit that comes out of Jeffy and Nathans fingers just confuses me more....both of them need to get real jobs and use/misuse there interlect on people with the same intelligance cause its wasted on us!! ;D.....bring back JOH.....you'd be surprised how many people are now saying he was a visionary and very smart cookie with the "people's" money.
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;D ;D ;D
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.....bring back JOH.....you'd be surprised how many people are now saying he was a visionary and very smart cookie with the "people's" money.
Surprised?.......that would be the understatement of the century ;D.
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[/quote]
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.....bring back JOH.....you'd be surprised how many people are now saying he was a visionary and very smart cookie with the "people's" money.
Surprised?.......that would be the understatement of the century ;D.
I liked JOH he was fun.
[/quote]OK John, here's a really simple task:
Explain to me how you and I will benefit if Qantas moves overseas.
Please don't get pissed at me Nathan but
How will I benefit if Qantas stays in Australia ?
Keeping in mind that the government sold the bit of Qantas that I owned and spent the money.
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Just flew to Qld, Virgin on the way up, Jet Star on the way back. Cheap, clean, orderley & efficient, no problems, but yes I did have to buy a sandwich (big deal). Who needs Quantas anyway?
K
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Yep... and breaking the golden rule of "never sell infrastructure" in the process...
But even if we ignore the bit where Qantas has to "stay Australian", I'm still failing to understand how Australia benefits from Joyce getting his way and moving (big chunks of) Qantas to South East Asia.
I understand what Joyce wants to do, and why.
I don't understand why Australian citizens and the Australian government wouldn't oppose it.
Late edit because I forgot to reply to the other part of Mike52's post (face palm):
Australian citizens benefit from Qantas staying here in the same ways they benefit from any large business being here.
The most obvious is the number of people gainfully employed, and the overall benefit that has on the rest of the economy (those employees pay tax, they spend money which helps keep other people employed, etc etc).
Similarly, the half a billion dollars in profits is taxed by the Aussie governement, meaning the government can either provide more services to me, or tax me less.
Then you get onto a stack of less tangible things, like the value of having the skills of those workers in Australia, the value of a "national airline", blah blah.
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Dont make him angry Mike52 ;D....we'll get a dressing down......I'm a bit old fashioned and simple I guess but for the life of me I dont know why you keep selling the golden egg for the suposed benefit of the owners (us), they keep telling us its to make it cheaper but I havent seen it yet....on anything. Seems to me everything has a price so its all for sale....short term gain, long term loss.....and on it goes.....I think I'm babbling now.
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Are we still bangin on about this.
We aint gunna solve it, just provoke each other into saying something nasty, I'm guilty.
Freaky's put some great classic Speedway shot's up in Vintage Track.
Far more exciting/interesting.
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He he. Budget airlines....
Once travelled on a budget airline in South Africa. Sat on the apron for about 4 hrs on a sweltering hot high veld afternoon. One woman went hysterical and had to be led off the plane. Eventually we took off and the drinks trolley came up the aisle. I was about half way up cattle class and asked for two beers. "That'l be ten rand sir". Well I gave the poor hostess lip about being kept on the apron for four hours and the least they could do was give me complimetary beers and she agreed. Sadly all the people behind me heard this and wanted a refund. It was close to a mutiny.
As you were.
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So what you are saying Tim is that you nearly started a mutiny... :D
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The things we will do for a free beer ::)
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The things we will do for a free beer ::)
Well at least it was for a good reason.
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where will Qantas stand with the Carbon Tax and our free skies, are they one of the big 500 companies or was that a 1000? the unions are doing what they can to protect Australian jobs, BUT so is Qantas whether you agree or not, the only one that isnt, is the government lead by a minority green faction. No tax has ever made anyone better off! no matter what spin you put on it. the level playing field is off- shore now. I suggest you all go for a drive around your local manufacturing sector and see the buildings for lease or sale, and the worst is still to come I fear.
worms
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So much for the carbon tax not effecting us, my powder-coater mate has worked out it will cost him $1000 a month because his business is classified as a high end user of power.....he only employes 6 people but his power bill each month is 5K and the LPG bill the same.......the cost of restoring has just gone up.....and there'll be lots more.....I still havent seen any carbon yet. ???
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.I still havent seen any carbon yet.
I,ve got to rebuild a muffler soon.
I'll box some up and send it to you Davey ;D
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Thanks mate.
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interesting point, worms. Despite the politics, the companies that will be paying the carbon tax haven't whinged much, so I don't know if Qantas will or not.
Their lack of noise on that issue suggests its a non issue for them.
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I still havent seen any carbon yet. ???
Priceless. ;D ;D at least we get a good laugh.
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You didn't read my post properly did you?
nice to know its not just my posts. LOL
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Nathan, of course this is a non-issue to most of the so called top 500 polluters, they will simply pass on the cost to the next in the chain and ultimately you and I as the consumer. This is why Gillard, Wong and the other spineless puppets stated that a carbon tax was not the ideal way to make a difference. I am still to be educated on how the application of a tax that can be passed on to consumers will make the polluters change their ways.
As for Qantas, I have a feeling that most Australians looking for airfares to international destinations will look at the cost factor, and that won't be Qantas' trump card. :(
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Sorry about the thread hijack but
.I still havent seen any carbon yet.
I,ve got to rebuild a muffler soon.
I'll box some up and send it to you Davey ;D
Now this has me thinking.
How many people can say that their chosen sport and their precious machines fix carbon in a form that can be stored?
Could it be that we , the ones the greens call enviromental vandals , are really the leaders in saving the free world? [ The russians/chinese really don't give a rats ]
Have I stumbled onto some thing that will be talked about in hushed tones for generations to come ?
Should we bring back 2 strokes in all facets of 2 wheel sport , 125 GP's especially.
Were those old diesels transporters really helping the enviroment.
;D
Ps . Where can Davey sell my shoebox full of carbon ?
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Nathan, of course this is a non-issue to most of the so called top 500 polluters, they will simply pass on the cost to the next in the chain and ultimately you and I as the consumer.
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Of course. But seeing as Qantas have been making so much fuss about needing to save money to increase profits, but the CO2 tax hasn't even rated a mention (that I've seen).
If the CO2 tax was an issue, I'm amazed that Joyce hasn't used it as a leverage point: "We can't be internationally competitive with a CO2 tax" - it would suit him on a number of levels - it would further undermine Gillard's already shakey position (an Abbott government would surely be more helpful when it came to union busting), as well as helping to justify the move overseas.