OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: YZ250H on September 10, 2011, 06:59:07 pm
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By all accounts these are animals of things ? I've heard the 85 is a beast - thanks Hoony. Was looking at acquiring an 84 (just don't tell the missus).
I've got a YZ465H and it doesn't scare me too much (although I have had a few "moments"). Just how much more powerful are these beasts :-\.
Note - light hearted topic. Hijack to your hearts content ;)
Ted, please not too much crap about the KX500 ;D ;D ;D ;D :P
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you'll be fine Tony,
just roooll the throttle on slooowly.... ;D
have ridden a few CR500's around MX tracks and they were much easier to ride than i first expected or thought.
and thats coming from a 125 rider.
listen to the voice in you're head Tony,
BUY IT NOW! ;)
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No worries Mick. If I listened to the voices in my head I'd be in big trouble :o :o :o
Thanks again for the lend of your cool bikes at CD8 too 8) 8). I had a HEAP of fun on both of them. I'm back in the sunshine state from Christmas time in Rocky, so hope to make a few meets at BMCC and bring some bikes to CD 8)
YZ Hilly said he rode Hoony's and it was a beast. Just a blip on the throttle and the front wheel is aiming at the sky ... Sounds interesting ;D
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I think it's a bloody fantastic idea Tony, go buy the thing! Something else to have a go on at the next CD
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That's what I was thinkin too ;D ;D ;D
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The dyno curve I saw from a late model one was pretty dismal - peak power was OK, but it was all over in no time. Was a genuine Service Honda AF.
87 KX500 with a leaky base gasket had a much better delivery...
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Yeah Nathan, I was probably thinking the earliest model ;D
KX 500 info is interesting though. I don't have my heart set, was just kinda thinkin ::)
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The KX is apparently much harder to ride fast it has way to much grunt off idle where the CR has a rising power curve with delivery more linear in relation to throttle opening. The torque curve says it all KX has peak torque at 3000 the CR closer 5500.
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The CR dyno curve I saw was all over by 5500. nobody seemed to think there were and dramas with it's health or state of tune!?
The two KX5s I've ridden (both 87 model motors) had very nice power delivery - mine is almost soft off the bottom, making it stupidly easy to ride, and seems to howl for a big bore (I get scared before I can prove the point).
The 91(?) CR500 I rode was a lot tougher off the bottom and definitely didn't rev as hard.
....and I think that's exhausted my input to this topic... :D
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CR500 will walk all over YZ465, they can really rev out
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Have ridden CR500 and CRE500 and they are nice. After hoping off the '78 RM400 straight onto the CR's they felt so smooth and cushy and something I could easily get used to. Probably wouldn't make me go any faster but they do everything so much easier that I didn't want to give them back :'(
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Ok heres my take on my 85' CR500.
i reckon the "beast" thing is a myth, yes they have a real strong engine and the 68 hp thing has been "claimed" many times but i reckon its a great engine, anyone that rides/has ridden a big bore knows you don't need top end as you should mostly be short shifting in the mid range area anyway. you don't need to rev a big bore out, that's for 125's and 250's which demand a different style of riding. i have offered many experienced older riders rides which knocked the offer back only to hear " it's way too much for me" i say "it's up to you how fast you go" and that's true of every bike.
i love mine and there is only a few times it has given me moments when it has hooked up when i didn't expect it, over all on most tracks it tends to spin the rear rather that haul the front skyward. if you didn't need to get from the pits to the line you could take out first gear as mine is a 3rd gear start on most tracks depending on the drive away from the gate, it pulls it easy ( most 5 spd big bores will anyway)
mines a stock engine except for wiseco piston and pro-circuit pipe, i rode an 88' model that had lots of other gear on it ( v force reeds, porting, pipe etc) and i found it way too punchy & harsh for me.
YZ250H and others happy to let you have a spin any time, just ask me if you like.
Brad has posted a similar take on his 85' before as well sometime back.
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You'll be allright, if your already used to the 465, there won't be a big difference in power, and braking will be improved :)
Problems arise when a career 125 pilot hops on one for the first time and think they need to ride it like a 125.
Ahhh, brings back memories of Doug Sharples on his 465 at Nudgee all those years ago....got that on video some where.
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Evo, that's not where Doug flipped it and cartwheeled down the straight is it?
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Problems arise when a career 125 pilot hops on one for the first time and think they need to ride it like a 125.
Yeah, have to admit to doing that initially when I first got the 465.
Sounds like a goer 8)
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just buy it Barsby. Remember, you've ridden the mighty PE175 a few times with no drama's, whereas Hoony was too frightened to take it on at CD7 ;D
I'd prefer it though if you bought an 86 model though. Thanks.
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I'll keep that in mind ::)
86 would be good, but 84 is pre 85
Cheers
Captain obvious
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yeah, i'm with Paul-Ski ( even if he is reving me up ;) that PE was way too much ride for me as he said ) just buy that 84' 500 you will love it and it will get you away from your beloved Piano's for awhile :D
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I don't remember the Honda's being any extra powerful, they were a bitch to start thou. The Ktm's were more arm stretchers. One bike I haven't seen for a while but left a huge impression on me were the Yamaha YZ 465 fitted with a Warren Willing 490 kit.
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I think Hoony is 100% spot on about the power delivery. I know of a certain tuner who modified a CR480 to make a big peak power figure (one of those "oh hell" numbers), but it was actually considerably easier than a stocker to ride because the power delivery was linear.
As a "career" 125 pilot, I reckon you'd have to be ignore a lot of very clear warning signs to seriously try to ride a 500 like a 125.
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As a "career" 125 pilot, I reckon you'd have to be ignore a lot of very clear warning signs to seriously try to ride a 500 like a 125.
back in '83' on a practice day at Jilliby park,
my regular ride was an 82 CR125 Honda and a mate gave me a ride on his
83 KX500.
i reved it too hard and was very dissapointed thinking it should have more.
when i came back to the pits he told me i had it all wrong.
1~2 gears higher and use the midrange ;)
the thing was totally different and scary fast.
it just had zero top end.
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As a "career" 125 pilot, I reckon you'd have to be ignore a lot of very clear warning signs to seriously try to ride a 500 like a 125.
too true, not sure how you ride a well set up 500 as a 125 without it burying you.
Typically at lot of 500s were geared to the moon as owners tried to smooth power or keep them in the mid range. Plus jetting is a lot more critical on a 500, some of the bikes that feel flat on top could probably do with the jets sorting.
But riding a 500 with good linear power redefines how fast you can go. Just you have to have the fitness to keep up.
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I used to race a CRE 500 - occassionally - and trail ride it. It would leave a top rated rider on a CR450F for dead on the start line and they wouldn't catch up until the second corner when I couldnt turn the thing or have the guts to hold the line. And do up to 150kph on the Finke dirt roads (because i was too scared to open it up fully). However they needed to be treated with respect - they do bite! I have looped it when I was quite confidently gassing down a straight and I have highsided it on rocky hills and been on my back before I could blink.
They are easy to ride slowly because they are torquey but be careful when you open them up. Mine is ported similar to the Eric Gorr specs and is more rideable. I also frequently used a trials tyre to have more controllable wheelspin.
They are fun - get one!
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just another point of view-but these became the 'weapon of choice' for sidecar cross in the late 80's and early 90's.
Consider that the engines of the day were 4stroke twins with about 50-80HP but they weighed 40kgs or more.
Bring on a 500 2stroker that has similar HP but weighs a shite load less and you have a winner. Then 'strech' that motor in all directions-longer stroke as well as bigger bore was not uncommon-and it became a monster.
There were plenty of Hondas but also a number of KX's and KTMs. Not too many YZs or RMs but a few Maicos, particularly in Europe. The Maico motor became the basis for the Zable which is now a brand of its own and winning the GPs. It has been known to be 700cc or even bigger and over 100HP isn't out of the question.
Luckily that it to tow two guys or the pilot would end up with very long arms. :D
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The Maico motor became the basis for the Zable which is now a brand of its own and winning the GPs. It has been known to be 700cc or even bigger and over 100HP isn't out of the question.
Still crazy after all these years the ATK ..... 700cc 68 hp ..... the ultimate one upmanship anyone here ever ridden one?
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/http___wwwatkusa.jpg)
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Pretty sure that is the same motor/bike as the Maico 700 and I beleive that is the afforementioned Zable 700cc that drives the sidecar crossers.
Having swung on the ELM Jumbo 800cc twin that had 120HP and weighed 210Kg I can say that these go very well.
There arew a couple of Zabels in Sth Oz doing the modern sidecar champs, so get down there and jump on one-even as a passenger you will get the sensation. :D :o 8) :'( :-[ :-X
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I've owned an 85 and 01 model that was used for dune riding only and the 01 was disappointing compared to the 85 and took a few mods to get it going well.
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68HP.........120HP is that all.......................... ;)
He's a Aprilia 125 GP
(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/4505/indexphpactiondlattacht.jpg)
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68HP.........120HP is that all.......................... ;)
He's a Aprilia 125 GP
Yeah but last season of 125s and soon it will be replaced with fire breathing 250 4 stroke, errr actually bit slower 250 4 stroke.
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Check out the TSS 500cc twin based on an RZ350 built in sunny Cairns by the boys at The Twostroke Shop (TSS).
120HP @ 9750 and 65lbs of torque @ 7200.(That's one option)
Plonked into an Aprillia RS250 chassis and raced in the 500cc class(or on road!!) .
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68HP.........120HP is that all.......................... ;)
He's a Aprilia 125 GP
Yeah but last season of 125s and soon it will be replaced with fire breathing 250 4 stroke, errr actually bit slower 250 4 stroke.
I don't know how you can mention those dog slow moto3 bikes in the same sentence as the 125s Marc
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Latest reports from Japan has the NSF a second a lap faster than TZ/RS 125's , stll no match for the Aprilia RSA ;)
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Problems arise when a career 125 pilot hops on one for the first time and think they need to ride it like a 125.
Yeah, have to admit to doing that initially when I first got the 465.
Sounds like a goer 8)
I raced an '86 KX-125, and got a chance to ride a local pro's '86 CR-500 at some sand dunes. This thing was ported by a local shop and had a Dyno-Port handmade cone pipe. It was absolutely the scariest bike I have ever ridden in my life. 5th gear, cruising along, roooooll the throttle and watch the front tire rise. Dial a wheelie in top gear! Lug it, scream it, whatever, this thing was a beast! Shook like a wet dog every time you got off the gas. LOVED IT!!!!!!
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Latest reports from Japan has the NSF a second a lap faster than TZ/RS 125's , stll no match for the Aprilia RSA ;)
From what I understand the 250s have the same kind of restrictions as to numbers of motors/season and max rpm, so durability probably limits the development more than the RSA.
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Not at all the top Spanish teams are already getting the GEO kit parts taking them around the 50HP mark.
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68HP.........120HP is that all.......................... ;)
He's a Aprilia 125 GP
so Lawrence, should I be expecting 75HP from the PE175@13000? ;D
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68HP.........120HP is that all.......................... ;)
He's a Aprilia 125 GP
so Lawrence, should I be expecting 75HP from the PE175@13000? ;D
And Luke I expect you might just be disappointed.
But, if the PE does hit 13000 rpm, make sure you are sitting well back on the seat, as you watch the piston fly up right through the tank, between your legs and right past your nose...
Kinda reminds me of the old mechanics joke - "why did the bike stop?" "Electrical problems" was the reply. What actually happened was that the rod let go, the piston came up through the head and dislodged the coil leading to an electrical failure... ;D
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68HP.........120HP is that all.......................... ;)
He's a Aprilia 125 GP
so Lawrence, should I be expecting 75HP from the PE175@13000? ;D
Can you handle 75HP ? ;D With only a 57mm stroke 11,500 would be no problems