OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Graeme M on February 23, 2008, 09:32:23 pm
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Just approved an ad on OzVMX Classies for a real nice CR125R, and there was a link to Dead Dog Racing. These guys have a heap of nice vintage MXers for sale. Sourced I think from the 'States. Prices are on the high side, but then again the bikes look pretty damn good. Especially if you like YZ465s and CR480s...
http://www.ddr.net.au/used-bikes/vintage+motocross
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Interesting :).
The seller obviously think big bores sell and sell for good money - On the top of the range I would think. But the good news is that this is his top price and you might bargain the seller down ;) (but I bet the price on the web page stays 'as advertised' ;) ;D)
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more like robbers dog
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If they couldn't sell any at the prices they're asking then they would certainly drop them. If not for the abundance of cashed up middle-aged nostalgics seeking machines from their youth, or machines they wanted but could never have, VMX would still be an inexpensive sport intsead of having machines worth more than current new bikes.
See example of too much $$$ for too little...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Suzuki-TM125L-1974-VMX-AHRMA_W0QQitemZ220205111358QQihZ012QQcategoryZ102690QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Yep, pretty scuzzy rust bucket for $800. But I am sure someone will pay that for the thing. Like everything, prices seem pretty variable. People are still finding excellent straight bikes for under $500, and yet there are those like this one commanding a premium. As for DDR, well, I hope he's a little negotiable cos some of those are way over priced. But others seem reasonable for the money given they *look* like you'd get a nice tidy bike.
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one off the forum members look at the bikes he had last week and mabee he can shed some light on there condition ,photo can be decieveing ,,,,,plus you cant allways judge a book buy it cover
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f%#ken hell. If those DDR prices are anywhere near market value ive ripped myself off big time. If not for my bloody injuries id still have my 96 KX500, 83 CR480's X 2 and my 83 RM500. Its gunna cost me a fortune to rebuild that collection if DDR prices are a true refection of the market.
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its only market value if they all sell.
it's a supply and demand thing of course. the value is only reflected by the need of the buyer to have it.
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I could be wrong but i think some of his bike's aren't avalaible "over the counter"
I believe he has a supplier in the U.S.where most of these bikes are possibly located.
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theres a really cheap 1983 model sand spider for sale there i see.....
$3750 cheap.... ;)
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speaking of cheap bikes, i spoke with a bloke today {forum member} that picked up an IT250 for a carton of beer. he said it fired in after a few kicks.
so there still out there
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Heavy or light beer???? ;)
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should he read this Tim and care to fess-up! i'm sure he will tell you.
if it started after a few kicks, i'd reckon it'd worth heavy's...
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DDR's prices don't seem too silly to me. Not saying that I'd pay those prices, but they seem well within the ball-park that everyone says the bikes are worth.
Maybe he's a bit optimistic on the post-84 stuff.
Funny how when you're selling, everything is a bargain, but when someone else is selling then they're all just overpriced pieces of shit....
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i with you nathan...some prices are ok but a few of the rare pre 85 stuff is a bit how ya goin...wish i had some spare cash left over i really like them sand spiders.... 8) it will be a while before i knock that over on the wish list ehh...does anyone know how many of them came into australia,cause really i havent seen any around..maybe firko might know....
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Some of them are within reason-yet if you look closley, you won't see a lot of $ put into them. Damn, my 77 AW got $5100 US, I think eventually to a US bidder due to members here who bid( thank you again)-and yet I had about 9 K US into that bike.
The 79 Maico Magnum 440 at $8500 really pisses me off-it is certainly rebuidlable-but the damn thing has set out-and it shows. Looks like he is saying that these bikes are worth more becauce they are fron the US-and that in my hillbilly parlance, is Bullshit. In the US the 79 Magnum would run with up to 81 bikes, and frankly, I could build a damn good one for $4000 US, and from what I've seen the shipping is not yet $4500. Ya gotta consider bearings. seals seat cover( btw that stock foam isl now shit, and the original seat bases crack at will after 30 years)-
I am wya more impresssed with say, DJ's 76 YZ125 "Noguchi".
Sorry, but I still think it would be cheaper often to import the "parts"( broken down bike).
Hell, you OZ racers are the least sniveling bunch I have known of, and here's this "speculator" trying to cash out bigtime. He needs to sell them for the same prices here in the US, at least there's a better chance that some deserving peckerhead will get ripped off. BTW, that 79 440 should go for 2-3K as is.
James
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You've gotta love the old used car yard trick of hosing them down and photographing them wet to make them look shiny.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTe2QLDgqeM&feature=related
I re-posted this link, more appropriate to this topic anyway. Maybe, Maybe the Husky viking is worth $9900, but not to me.
Maybe we should send each other plastic fenders etc-I can say it costs more since it's from Oz, and you can say you have to take it up the arse since it's from the US.
I do want to say that I now feel better about likely having to build another AW ground up-due to my budget only beign able to do a bit at a time and all-but STILL will not have 10k in it.
Un fuc.ingbeleivable!!!
James
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That used car ad is a ripper. When I was living in California there used to be a guy called Cal Worthington whose ads were almost exactly the same as this one (except for the bad words). In every ad Cal would appear whith his dog Spot which was always every kind of animal except a dog. He got mauled by a tiger pretending to be his dog Spot live on TV. Funniest thing I'd seen in years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGEYCsvPJzw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGEYCsvPJzw&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOCNphyw2OE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOCNphyw2OE&feature=related)
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Because I don't do real estate and have no idea about stocks. I do a lot of speculating on bike prices. I wonder about the generational phase. In ten to fifteen years most of us may be getting to old to ride. Is the next generation willing to pay big dollars for dirt bikes that weren't part of their youth. Even in VMX it has shifted away from pre 74 to late 70's and early 80's as the age group changes. The older guy's now spend more time collecting and restoring rather than riding.
It's starting to happen to Harley. Their share prices are dropping, they tried to buy out Ducati because they see the need to diversify. All the mid life crisis baby boomers who bought them in the '80's and 90's are now getting too old. Plus that bad boy image is getting corny. All the guy's I know in their 40's now are buying big adventure tourers and hitting the outback.
It might pay to buy up all the cheap 90's motocrossers and store them.
I saw a guy the other day pay $2,200 for a 70'sHonda minitrail. You can get the 80/90's models in good original condition for $600. I thought another ten years and those kids will be in their 30's and want to relive their childhood and pay good money for them.
There is the the exception to the rule. There is always the guy who is in love with stuff that was made before their time. But they would be in the minority and it's usually only if they where exposed to them in their youth.
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Good summary Crash n Burn. Pretty much my point of view.
As for specualting the future trends you can use the past as a guide, you only have to allow for global warming, international recession and world war :o and a few other variables ::).
I think I like real estate as an investment and VMX as a hobby ;); land, they're are not making it any more. And, people always have to live somewhere ;). They might just be paying me for the pleasure ;D.
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'You can get the 80/90's models in good original condition for $600'; good call crash n bern.
As the saying goes, "These are the good old days".
If you have the money and the space you could buy all manner of things to hang on to 'til later.
Why did I throw out the Phantom mags, the metal scale model Batmobile and the bad '70s fashion?
It's all worth big bucks now.
Picking a bike or car or whatever to become a classic collectors piece is a bit of a gamble.
Those of you into VMX from the beginning can testify to the massive leap in bike prices over the past few years.
What's common place now (the '90s bikes) will indeed be worth bigger bucks in ten years time.
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Thats very true , I hade this immaculate CR 500 85 for years and no dog would piddle on it for $2500. Then we just filled the space with an ad in justbikes , put $5000 on it and the phone would not stop ringing . It went to Sydney . There you go .
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just thought i'd throw in a bit of an update here folks,
went out to DDR to see what all the fuss was about and found some very friendly helpfull service the way it should be. each bike had a price tag swinging off the handlebars and i do like that, cause i havn't seen that for years! anyway, as maicojames said in an earlier post, "they don't look like they've had too much dollars thrown at them", the bikes that is. they did have quite a few nice old bikes there and the drool was starting to flow but my personal take is that the prices are high for the condition of the bikes with the exception of a couple. the two TM400s looked about right for the money but have apparently already been sold.
as i said, the bloke i spoke with was more than helpfull and clearly stated there's more stuff "on the way" so they're probably worth keeping an eye on as you just never know what'll turn up.
each to thier own i guess... ;)
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Vandy, did they appear to be interested in talking dollars? Was the swing tag the starting point or pretty much fixed?
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i didn't really enter into any bargaining as such but just more to have a look and check it out. most of the bikes had a sticker on it, depending what state in the US it came from, something to do with thier rec/rego? so as it was explained to me, the cost of getting these bikes through customs to here, dictates thier prices, how much they have to play with? or will be flexible? i can't say. i did see though, a rather complete yz400f engine out the back if anyones looking for one.
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The price of customs? Well, it is a business I understand. I am pleased to hear they were friendly and helpful( service costs $). Still, given the condition of the bikes,that is most of them "barn fresh" or at least unrestored-the prices are out of line. Do you really think he paid any more than say $1000 US for the 79 440 Maico? No chance. Again, I understand it is a business, and when I was a slightly "cashed up forker" myself, it made sense at times to pay more for a part to get it correct and quick.
I suppose being a fatass spoiled American redneck and all it just seems like they are sticking to my OZ VMX brothers. I mean, a Mag 440 restored often goes for like 4K-5K here, I guess around 2k to import-and you have a restored bike.
Shit, you might have 15k or more in that one.
BTW many here are unable to race this year due to fuel costs-and converting it shows that gas here is about 1.15 a liter( assuming fairly flat currency conversion).
You guys are really dedicated.
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Vandy when i was at DDr a couple of weeks ago he said he pretty much wanted the asking price for the bikes i was looking at but may drop a little. In my opinion their bikes are very highly priced and most of them need work. He was, like you said, a very friendly guy. He even told me what it costs to bring a 40ft container of bikes in, and i reckon they are making a shitload of $$$
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what does the container cost
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I've just got off the phone with my shipping guy and he reckons that the number of "old dirt bikes" (his term) he's bringing in is growing at a huge rate. The poor American dollar and the ease of shopping via eBay have contributed to a boom like nothing we've ever seen. He reckons that after the Harley and muscle car import boom, the vintage motocrosser market is the new money maker. We have four bikes in this shipment and a mate has five with another shipper and if you add up the number of bikes coming in via other shippers, the numbers are about explode. Another good thing about this is that we are seeing an influx of bikes never seen here in great numbers like KTM 495s, CCMs, Cheneys and such, making the sport just that little bit more interesting.
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About 10 grand Paul. Firko is that Roly Leahy (lives just near me), how much per bike do they charge?
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John..I won't know until our stuff is unloaded next week. The bike I'm bringing in is dismantled and in seperate boxes so it's a different price to a complete bike. Give Peter or Michael a ring at Roly Leahys to get a more accurate price than I can give you.
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firko does it mater if the frame and engine come in the same shipment ,in regard to title or no title
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Paul, as long as they're seperate the shipment is regarded as parts and therefore you don't need a pink slip or import licence. No problem with them being in the same shipment.
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Paul,
Roly just bought one in for me from the states as "Parts" and it cost me a total of $415 including g.s.t almost cheaper than Sydney to Brisbane. The main problem and cost is if the bike doesn't come from the L.A. area it can get expensive getting it to his packer in Long Beach. Depends on where you buy the bike and how willing the seller is to go that little bit extra for you I guess.
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Roly charged me $1300 to import a ktm 495 from Long Beach Calif. My seller took the bike on the back of his ute from las Vegas down to long beach for about $150. I also figured out a nice way of making sure that the seller is who he sais he is on ebay, I get the physical address and google earth it then i look around for a item that i ask them to describe, I got the address from this last guy and google earthed it, saw that his neighbour had a "L" shaped pool, so i phoned the seller up and asked him to describe his neighbours pool, he described it exactly as it was , he thought i had gone mad but when i told him I was now sure of his address he realised that the world is a very small place indeed.
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F&%k that. Who wants people peeping around your back yard via the net. Makes you think very long and hard about just how much info you provide to people. I for one certainly dont want strangers entering my back yard.......... Damn I thought that was only possible in movies or by the military/Goverment. Didn't think just anyone could log onto net and do it. :o :o :o
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thank s you guys for the info watch this space for comeing attractions ;) ive done that quicky checked out brads place once ;D looked in maico james back yard tooo :o this internet is an amazeing tool ive even got a lap top in my truck with a wireless conection so i can ebay at work chopping trees , you can get free internet just about any were and unlimited down load from some one
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quicksilver you'll be surprised what is available today, but I hope you never get taken by an arsehole who is'nt who he says he is cos thats the most frustrating thing ever..
Unfortunately those of us that have been ripped off big time have to resort to safeguarding our hard earned bucks from bullshitters.
ps please can you chop the top branches off your tree, you know the one next to your garage cos its obscuring my view of your blonde neighbour. :o ;D
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Roly charged me $1300 to import a ktm 495 from Long Beach Calif. My seller took the bike on the back of his ute from las Vegas down to long beach for about $150. I also figured out a nice way of making sure that the seller is who he sais he is on ebay, I get the physical address and google earth it then i look around for a item that i ask them to describe, I got the address from this last guy and google earthed it, saw that his neighbour had a "L" shaped pool, so i phoned the seller up and asked him to describe his neighbours pool, he described it exactly as it was , he thought i had gone mad but when i told him I was now sure of his address he realised that the world is a very small place indeed.
That.
Is.
Cool.
Wish I'd thought of it!
But then again, I live in a country town outside of the USA, so my whole house is - for the time being - indistinguishable on Google Earth.
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quicksilver you'll be surprised what is available today, but I hope you never get taken by an arsehole who is'nt who he says he is cos thats the most frustrating thing ever..
Unfortunately those of us that have been ripped off big time have to resort to safeguarding our hard earned bucks from bullshitters.
ps please can you chop the top branches off your tree, you know the one next to your garage cos its obscuring my view of your blonde neighbour. :o ;D
Mate I understand safeguarding yourself, I really do. I think we all have been ripped at sometime or another. I was shocked to think it was possible to do such thing via the net..
Nah.. I will leave the tree mate ;D My topless sunbaking blonde neighbour, Ya really dont want to see that. .. ;D ;D
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Sorry to disappoint you Quickie but you won't see in that detail :-[.
My daughter did an educational tour to the US recently, staying at a host family and attending a host school. Using Google Earth she had a pretty good idea of the home and neighbourhood, and the school. She was also able to trace her trip to school including a 'birds eye' virtual trip.
Awesome and informative for her and us.
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I got on Google Earth one day and had a look at the old MX track that hasn't been used in Barcaldine for about 15 years and you can see it , even though you cann't see a mark on the ground standing in the paddock looking for it. You can even see parts of the old Blackwater MX track that hasn't been used since the late 70's. Darcy
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The old Barcy track, brings back memories, watching Gak and Burgess with my mouth wide open as a kid.
Then racing with the Smith bros and Duncan Hale.
Ahh the good old days.
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I think you can purchase much higher resolution up to date google earth images, the free to air one is a snap shot every 3 or 4 years with low resolution. So if you really want to see detail you have to purchase the real big brother one. i might just do that and then I can take the missus and kids for extravagant holidays without leaving the house he he he :D
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i might just do that and then I can take the missus and kids for extravagant holidays without leaving the house he he he :D
That's one way of reducing your 'carbon footprint'...maybe the way of the future ::)
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evo550. While you were watching Burgess and Gak. That was me down the back of the field about half a lap behind on a Cr250m1 thinking that I was going to some how catch up ;D Do you know what ever happened to Robin Burgess?? He just seemed to disappear off the map. Darcy
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Hey Darcy
You fully mended yet and racing?
Rosco, Mackay
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Paul, as long as they're seperate the shipment is regarded as parts and therefore you don't need a pink slip or import licence. No problem with them being in the same shipment.
it looks like great minds think alike, I bought a very rare CR 250 M 1974 ex the USA using the same party trick- I could not get a pink slip, resorted to bringing in the bike in three boxes, the one with the motor has still to arrive.
It appears that Australians and South Africans can both be devious when it comes to get prize bikes out of California. Side item is that you cannot ship any bike out of LAX without a certicicate confirming that the bike has no oil or petrol in it. Believe it or not one of my bikes a 1983 YZ 490 arrived in South africa with all its oil and a almost full tank of petrol. ;)
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Rosco. Not mended yet but getting close. I was up that way the other day tried to ring you but the phone number I have isn't working. Darcy
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Darcy
Have moved into town. If coming through ring 4942 9952 0r 0417784444. Just about finished the CCM so I'm going to give her a fling around this year. And just for a real laugh I'm retoring a 125 to see if it will actually carry me around. If you are looking to go south later in the year for a couple of events give mme a holler and we might be able to lower costs and share.
Rosco.
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Forgive me pls for a hijack here but it appears not all are getting the 'noise emmisions' debate.
Another thread has appeared in the Competition page as 'Decibels'.
This is serious. Fatboy advises it all comes to a head when the Board meets on 26 March.
I'm cutting and pasting from that thread into a couple of the high interest threads (like this one) in the hope some will respond to the noise emmisions issue:
Jeez fellas, Fatboy says MA have received only six or eight responses to the noise limit debate!
That is tragic - and hardly a groundswell of dissent.
How many members are on this Forum......?
Given the volume of written traffic on this Forum can we pls all make an effort to send a letter to MA?
Fatboy has provided the link (and it's no different to posting on this Forum).
[email protected]
We have eleven days left before the Board meets on 26 March.
Pls send a few lines ASAP.
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[quote
. The poor American dollar and the ease of shopping via eBay have contributed to a boom like nothing we've ever seen. He reckons that after the Harley and muscle car import boom, the vintage motocrosser market is the new money maker. Another good thing about this is that we are seeing an influx of bikes never seen here in great numbers like KTM 495s, CCMs, Cheneys and such, making the sport just that little bit more interesting.
So how is DDRacing going in the ozvmx world,, ??? not too many pre 75 plenty of pre85.
cheers
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$6500 for a 79 CR 125 :D. Lots of ITs there for you guys in vinduro. I have heard a bad thing with DDR but dont know the full story to make judgment. This guy is the only person I have herd of buying a bike off them. Has any body on here bought 1 ???.
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Yes I've brought from DDR. First bike was about 4 months ago and Wade (the owner) was excellent to deal with, from the first phone call right up to delivery he kept me informed
and the bike was even better than the photos showed. He did everything he said he would. I have now just purchased another bike from him, this 1 is still in the States and I
wont see this for about 8 weeks. Both bikes are 89 Honda's the first a CR250 the most recent a CR500. I believe DDR's prices are very reasonable and I would not hesitate to buy from them again. All I need now is for Heaven VMX to get up to speed with the other states and introduce a Pre 90 class. How's that I've been following this forum since day 1 and this is my first post. Maybe thats a sign of how pleased I am with my purchases from DEAD DOG RACING !!!
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i bought a chinese bike off them about a year and a half ddr 200mx its a crf 80 lookalike i thought they were great to deal with.the bike has been great never had a drama with it and its still got the original battery for the electric and it works.i know of places selling the same bike just with blue plastics and silver motor way over twice the price.anytime ive rang to ask them anything theyve been great.most of the bikes look pretty clean and tidy the look better in the flesh than in there photos.they have a company by the same name in america which i think was started first,they also have a couple of restored bikes the one i remember most was i think was a late60's maico,they also havr a couple of nicely restored rm's and yz's.all in all i thought they were great to deal with and would recommend them to anyone.cheers gary
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they also advertised some where that they can or help ship i bike you buy off say ebay it comes over in their container wiyh there bikes.cheers gary
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I bought a yamaha MX360A from them, that supposedly only had a problem with the decompression lever. Sorry wrong, needed new bearings and seals, rebore etc, etc. Was not happy with what i paid for.
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i bought a old alpha 1 490 for the parts i need for my frankenbike /engine wheels forks then scrapped the rest
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I have never bought from him, but I work just down the road from his old show room, I have run an eye across a few bikes for some out of town buyers, all I will say is that alot of his bikes had major and serious issues that never got mentioned in any of his online adverts.
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Nobody's in business to 'break even'. There's lots of overheads like advertising, insurance, buying and importing costs that the guy putting his bike in the trading post or sticking a 'for sale' sign on his bike outside his house doesn't have to pay.
Selling second hand equipment of any sort is fraught with problems especially something like old motocross bikes which as most of us know, have never been serviced as per the book. ::). I doubt these guys have x-ray vision and it would be impossible to spot most problems even with a bike that is running.
At the end of the day we should be gratefull that someone is giving people access to bikes they normally wouldn't be able to get hold of.
And no. I don't have anything to do with DDR. It just gives me the shits that people seem to think of small business's as being involved in naked profiteering when most are barely paying the bills.
Be thankfull they're there......
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Yep I agree with 414. I've bought a couple of bikes of Wade. Yes if I spent a couple of years scouring ebay I might of found them in better condition for the same money. Probably would of found them in Melb, have to buy them blind and pay $350-500 each to ship them up to QLD.
Most of the bikes are unmolested but are in varying wear and tear condition. The biggest problems seem to be from sitting around for a long time. You really need to start them and check them out. DDR don't go over them when they get them. They get them running for you, but if there are any issues, you need to point them out if you want them addressed. I had a couple of issues with my bikes when I got them home and wade was quite happy to work something out with me. But it is better if you sort it before the bike leaves the shop.
At least I could walk in see them, start them, take them home. Even if you pay a little over the top, it's not like they will devaluate.
Keep in mind, he has to pay someone to drive around and find these bikes. Then someone has to wash them and drain the fuel. Take them to the docks and pack them in the container. Then there's shipping, customs and GST. Then there's rent advertising, wages. power, phone, and a hundred and one other red tape costs that come with running a business.
yes I think some of his prices might be a little over the top, but as I mentioned in another thread at least he's not devaluating the price of our bikes. And until other people start doing it and going into competition you wont see any price slashing.