OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: JADERD on July 19, 2011, 11:48:05 am
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Morning all,
thought i would upload my current costs associated with getting into motorbikes at a basic level,
thought it may be handy for others thinking of doing up a basic bike, i know most on here are already well experienced in building bikes, im not and from the outset wanted to track my cash so i know the costs of my hobby.
Please upload or mention your costs if you like as a good piece of information for ppl looking at commencing a build.
i have also included any associated costs from tools to jackets and motorbike licence. table is separate with total cost of all inclusive down bottom left.
- bare in mind bike was free and it was in 95% working order so this is prob a cheap example.
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/sberton/KawasakiExpenditureJPEG.jpg)
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Oh just wait until the real VMX bug hits, you won't want to keep any records like that. Actually I keep records and 9 times out of 10 I could probably buy it already done out of the US cheaper, but where would be the fun in that.
Anyway a few costs in there like Jackets are not directly bike related and your tools are capital plant that hopefully will do more than one bike. ;)
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Both Paul and I have made comments on what a bike is worth on a different thread, a desirable vintage (Maico 490) base price in a relatively good condition from the US could cost $5-$6.5K US, Transport Taxes and Fees $800-$1,400 Aus Dollars. Rebuild cost can vary depending on what you want and what needs to be replaced/refurbished. I know I have spent over $6K on mine, because I wanted as close to a new bike with all the proper mods and additional billet bits learn't over the last 30 years of these bikes history to improve the bike. My time does not get added into these costs as like other owners we don't put a dollar value on our time.
So now after spending all that money and time we get to value what the bike is worth, my estimates would be Bike cost/build-parts-transport/outside work costs/bike desirability/bike availability = local value of bike. I have put a insurance value on my bike of $20K, I believe my bikes true value is around 15-18k. What annoys me is when someone says I saw one on Ebay for $5-$6k and cost of shipping is only $800-$1400 so this bike must be worth around $6.500 dollars here. That is not my experience, also some marques are cheaper to rebuild that others. Maico's are worth more because the cost to buy any Maico parts or after market parts are lot more expensive that say doing up a RM, YZ, KX, Husky or most other makes. So at the end of the day, my Maico is worth what I know it is worth even though others may have a different opinion. It is all perspective and taste, but a true cost is applicable.
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yeah definitely.
as for insurance mine is with shannons, full comp on limited use as mine will be reg on club reg with the 90 day option, joined VJMC the other week is only $46 per year and insured at 2k value at moment, once i am ready to put it on the road the guy will assess and check some other sources for value (they didnt have F11B or any F11's on their insurance charts etc) he mentioned for same premium of $46 value of bike may be 4-5k which id be more than happy with as its not a rare bike really.
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Your Bike is worth what someone pays for it when you need to sell it. Nothing more or less.
A real complete rebuild restro with new shocks and ignition is 5k IMO.
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id hate to think or comment on what just one of my maicos have cost .especialy now that my wife was sitting down reading this forum the other nite.she stood up and said she wanted a new car
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id be more than happy with as its not a rare bike really.
Its as rare as you want it to be ;) -- enjoyment thats what its all about :P ;D
I wouldn't dare dream of adding up our expense chart for a bike, let alone one year,we cant take it with us hey !! ;D
Well done to you for the stats Jaderd..nice to see someone elses costings ;D
cheers A
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I bought a KTM basket case, $1600, transport, $600, powder coating $200, Rechrome forks $400, Refurbish ohlins $500. Total motor rebiuld, $1500, rewind stator, $300, rebuild motor with new crank $800 (all because of one little nut, no not me). New tyres, steering head bearings, new carby, Lewis brother pipe, plastics, manual and it goes on and guess what it still not running!!!! 18 months on
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I reckon most of my race bikes owe me around $1500~2500 when they front up to their first race.
That's for a race worthy bike that matches my ability as a rider... I can see a zillion other places to spend money on them, but I just can't see the point in paying lots of money to make a bike pretty and/or making it super trick, and then thrashing it thought the mud and rocks for a midpack finish.
It definitely gets easier/cheaper as you build a pile of spares, and as you get to know what works and what doesn't. And as you meet more people.
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my bikes usually cost around the $2.5K mark and then after riding them for a while i set about with a few home grown refinements.
i always start out collecting reciepts and documenting things along the way and then for whatever reason i just forget and couldn't be bothered with how much the damn thing cost.
it's just fun stuff! :D
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awesome its good to read everyones info, im looking forward to more the social aspects too, i am attending the VJMC monthly meet this coming tuesday to get to know members etc, feel its important not just for the information but also as i plan on getting club reg which means the club should know who i am etc before they allow me to get the permit through their club.
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You also have winners and losers, my HL500 is probably the most expensive bike in the garage...
my F1 Ducati one of the cheapest so swings and round abouts.
I have found that it works out better if you don't buy some shitter to begin with .... buy good bits that don't need too much work..... my RM125C that I am just finishing owes less than 3 grand with Simons foks, FMF head etc, just watch out for cheap clean parts and stock pile them.... I picked up original bore RM125C motor for $150 and clean frame for $80, pair of decent wheels $120 and started from there.
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Totally understand where you're coming from marc. my next project when i can get to it is a Rickman Zundapp metisse, i was given, really looking forward to this one as was owned by a family friend. Have frame, forks, wheels and 80 per cent of the motor
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there are names for people like you, but damn it, noice!!!lol
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My Ducati rebuilt cost more than any VMX , small countries have less debt than that cost. Just to rebuild brembo brakes was like $800.00
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there are names for people like you, but damn it, noice!!!lol
thanks Tossa, but just took it down as lets keep this dirt bikes. anyway I guess my point is you can do this VMX thing without it costing sheep stations, especially with money a bit tight you don't have spend a fortune to ride/race something cool.
How about clean 73 WR250 Husky motor $200, mint powder coated frame and swingarm $200, wheels forks etc $300 and you are probably off to the races with cool pre 75 250 Husky for $1500 or so.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/KGrHqVhME1fuiu80BNjU20Ig_3.jpg)
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My Ducati rebuilt cost more than any VMX , small countries have less debt than that cost. Just to rebuild brembo brakes was like $800.00
If you go all gushy over say a bevel 900SS, you can easily put 10 K just into the engine. What Brembo's cost you $800 ?, I can buy twin pot ones for $100 a pair off Yahoo so just bought adaptors for my F1 and stocked up on cheap calipers.
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Unless you want really original Ducati I would throw the 08/05 Brembos in the bin
Use adaptors and fit 4 pots or radials for that matter
http://www.kaemna.de/cms_en/katalog.htm?&view=seite&seite=86
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There you go brand new set of 05/08 $260 bucks a pair
Ebay has 4 ports 45mm spacing for $199 brand new each. Which purveyor of finest Ducati products got to you ... good chance I may even know them from my mis spent youth
http://www.shop.bevelheaven.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=35
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My Ducati rebuilt cost more than any VMX , small countries have less debt than that cost. Just to rebuild brembo brakes was like $800.00
If you go all gushy over say a bevel 900SS, you can easily put 10 K just into the engine. What Brembo's cost you $800 ?, I can buy twin pot ones for $100 a pair off Yahoo so just bought adaptors for my F1 and stocked up on cheap calipers.
When I did my 900 SS there was no Ebay etc, It was a basket case that had been in prang with bent frame and then left outside for 3 years motor full of water etc, When I purchased it for 3k I thought I stole it , 15 odd K later and at the time I owned a complete engineering shop and did all the work.
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When I did my 900 SS there was no Ebay etc, It was a basket case that had been in prang with bent frame and then left outside for 3 years motor full of water etc, When I purchased it for 3k I thought I stole it , 15 odd K later and at the time I owned a complete engineering shop and did all the work.
Yeah i am kind of familiar with the model, I had one 900SS and at the time thought I had made out like a bandit getting a decent ::)trade on a Paso
If you want to really redefine expensive try doing the same rebuild on a Laverda ... any Laverda,
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we did a resto on a cbx 1000 honda-the 6cylinder thingy.the owner wasnt interested in doing any of the work ie polishing or painting bits and pieces.this was a ground upresto lucky the crank and bottom end was good.end cost from memory was 23000.00.he wouldnt even look for parts on ebay i told him if i had to chase them he would be paying hrly rate.most be good working in the mines :D
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i told him if i had to chase them he would be paying hrly rate.most be good working in the mines :D
Yup, last bike I restored at BJ's was a 200cc Triumph Cub that ended up at $7K for a Miner - cost didn't seem to phase him at all even when I told him the bike would be worth $3K tops.
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My 2 cents worth......
This is for an RM465, as it was my first resto and I got carried away a bit with sourcing as much NOS / new parts as possible and postage killed me as I ordered in 5-6 small lots instead of one big one from the USA. With experience I probably could have saved $500 - $1000 over the project
At the end of the day she looks awesome and she's mine!
Base bike from US $2,100 - I paid overs as the bike was not worth this amount and knowing what I do now would probably pay only $1500 at most
Import permit $50
Shipping $400
Port charges, quarantine and GST $1,447
Sand blast frame and powdercoat $209
Various parts, freight and bead blasting $2,600
Rebore & porting $160
PPR paints $200
Suspension rebuilt $1000 (approx)
All up approx $8,200K and I have had a ball spending every cent!
cheers
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With experience I probably could have saved $500 - $1000 over the project
At the end of the day she looks awesome and she's mine!
Yeah building using a lot of NOS parts adds a whole different pricing level, but like you say a bit of experience in where to go for NOS and where to use replica or after market parts helps. Plus good source of cheap freight.
I have TM400 on the slab at the moment
good running motor $150
very clean frame $80 + 120 powder and paint
plastics, seat cover and cables $350
wheels and axles $80
new spokes $135
CDI and Carb $0 came with motor
freight $400
GMC Pipe $450
Tyres $200
seat $80
Bars and control $75
TM400 load of fastenings, engine mounts and wheel bearings $200
where we at the moment, roughly North of a couple of grand plus change but for that it will be pretty clean and better than starting with $2000 core bike where you would throw away most of it anyway.
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I'd agree if you can get your hands on the parts it can be cheaper than buying a complete bike building a rm250a at the moment that way. ;)
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For me it's a total rebuild from ground up. It may take me 6 months or a year ( some a great deal longer ???)
Most of mine cost me more than I had intended $$ wise and to me it's a form of relaxation. I don't drink ...alcohol or smoke..... but I am partial to a cup of tea :) there's a saving straight away ;D
I also get a great deal of satisfaction standing back enjoying my labour of love when they are completed.
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For me it's a total rebuild from ground up. It may take me 6 months or a year ( some a great deal longer ???)
Most of mine cost me more than I had intended $$ wise and to me it's a form of relaxation. I don't drink ...alcohol or smoke..... but I am partial to a cup of tea :) there's a saving straight away ;D
I also get a great deal of satisfaction standing back enjoying my labour of love when they are completed.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, no matter what it ends up costing it's the end result that counts to those who have done the task!!
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Nathan - nothing wrong with your logic there - I however enjoy making mine as super pretty as possible as well as riding them (for that midpack finish if I am lucky) - it's all part of the allure - not just having a bike and racing it but I enjoy looking after mine also.
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Yes blinging a bike is good for some but come on a complete wardrobe change for each race But none for the bike. Who you really blinging there oh chunky one!!!
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It's funny how everyone has a different approach and desired outcome, for me the original goal was to own the bike of my childhood dreams, from there it just took over and I wanted it to be as 'pretty' as possible. I do plan to throw it around a track and get it dirty as often as I can amongst all my other duties in life!
I have loved the research and chasing bits and pieces from around the globe as much as the actual work and like you Oldfart, I can now sit back and look at her with a big smile knowing that everything is as it should be
PS On another post we were talking about suspension and I have just got back from dropping off the shock and forks to SOS in Penrith, Sean at SOS seams like a pretty knowledgable bloke so he has been entrusted with the final piece in the puzzle, I will post some images as soon as it is done and I work out how to get them on the forum
This site has and will continue to be a great source of information to blokes like me (novice restorers) your collective knowledge is truely awesome and I thank you all for the direct and indirect help you provided
Cheers
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In the twenty plus years I've been restoring, rebuilding and creating old dirt bikes the one thing I've learned is that keeping an accurate record of what you spend only leads to heartache and disappointment. Naturally when I've restored a bike for a client I must keep a record but on my own bikes, especially my hot rod specials, I just go with it....whatever it costs is whatever it costs.
Being a self funded retiree I most definitely have to watch the dollar output so I do make a concerted effort to keep the costs as low as possible by doing as much stuff as I can myself. I'm also pretty canny at picking up bargains on eBay, Marks Swapmeet and other places, once again saving a lot of money. If you're intent on doing the restoration yourself the most important thing is to get the core bike for as little outlay as possible. Try and find a bike that's never been previously "restored" as I reckon it's better knowing that you're the first to touch the bike, avoiding any hidden butchering by previous bush mechanics.
I'm about to start restoring a Yamaha IT250H which I paid $500 for. The bike looks a bit on the rough side but under the barn find patina it's a solid, unmolested bike. The engine's got plenty of compression, a spark you could weld with and all of the gears are there. The shock seems to still have dampening and the wheels and hubs are straight and reasonably unmarked. The frame's had no damage or repairs that I can find. The plastic mudguards are shot but the tank and side panels will clean up OK.
Because I'm a poor old retiree and as the bike will only be used a couple of times a year I'm not going to spend shitloads turning it into a shiny show queen. This is my Vinduro ride so it's certain to get all scratched up anyway ( I fall off a lot) so all I'll so is get it as good as I can and try to keep the total under $1500. Rather than spending the big money for plastic I'll use DC mudguards which work well for a project like this and tidy up the side panels and tank including a new sticker kit. I won't be repainting the frame, I'll merely pull the bike totally down and clean and polish the original paint. I'll give the engine a bit of a top end overhaul and a quick coat of satin black powdercoat, bash out the pipes header pipe dings, fit a set of YZ490J 43mm forks and triples I got for $50 a couple of years ago, a twin leading backing plate from Marks Swapmeet and a set of cheap tyres, I don't give a shit what brand, as long as I can get 'em both for around $150.....I hope to have it started within a couple of weeks with a planned Christmas finish (which in reality means it'll probably stretch out 'til next Easter as I do have a couple more projects on the slab).
Many of you might remember the step by step thread of Yamaicos low buck 465 Yamaha flat tracker build which we posted a couple of years ago. Well, Pete's about to start on another of his amazingly low cost bike builds which we're going to post once he gets rolling on the project. I'll save a description of the bike until he starts but both he and I hope that it will show that you can build a good, fun bike for under $1000.
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Images attached (I hope) - I'm a fast learner!
These were taken a few weeks ago and I will put some more / better ones up when the job is done!
Again thanks to all
PS Welcome back Firko, you are one of the many who has personally responded to my many naff questions so thanks
(http://[IMG]http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/justinbowtell/RM465-2.jpg)[/img]
(http://[IMG]http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/justinbowtell/RM465-1.jpg)[/img]
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(http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/justinbowtell/RM465-2.jpg)
(http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/justinbowtell/RM465-1.jpg)
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Import permit $50
Shipping $400
Port charges, quarantine and GST $1,447
Bitten, those charges seem a bit on the steep side. I had to go back through my files to find what we paid and found the following bill from Peter Leahy Imports from two years ago.
There were two complete bikes, a dismantled mini bike and a spare frame in the shipment. the costs were:
*Freight.....................$1200 (total for all 3 bikes)
*Customs clearance.....$ 195
*Qurantine.................$ 125
*G.S.T......................$ 37.72
*Duty on goods...........N/A
total..........................$1589.72 (remember...this is for three bikes)
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i think they have amade a mistake on the gst componet ,you get charged gst on the shipping costs now ,so there is on your prices 120.00 in gst on the freight plus gst on the cost of the bikes
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Hi Firko
As this was my first attempt I had nothing to compare it with, when I first found the bike it seemed like a bargain at $2,100 compared to what they were going for on places like DDR.
To have it picked up in Las Vegas, taken to LA and loaded on a ship and then sail it to Australia was $900 US - not $400 as posted earlier but I have since done some checking and it is about $400 just to ship so the agent made $500 - he earn't it!
I was told that there wasn't much more to do on it but when I got it it was well short of what I would have thought 'not much more to do' meant! - photos can hide a lot!! I had joined Heaven VMX club in the anticipation of riding the bike straight away but once I saw the condition that was folly!
Then just as it hit Australian ports I was provided bills from Freightnet for the following (I expected some charges but never to this extent and I suspect some of them are just 'padding' to screw people like me!)
$903.92 covering...
Delivery order fee - $65.00
Destination Port charges - $184.08
Destination Terminal Handling charges - $62.30
Customs clearance - $135.00
AQIS Inspection - $150.00
Quarantine Entry fee - $129.00
Quarantine Attendence - $35.00
Postage - $5.00
Destination Cargo Automation fee - $40.00
Destination documentation fee - $20.00
Destination security surcharge - $10.00
GST on the above $68.54
I also got hit with
$175 steam cleaning bill
$282.46 GST on the bike plus and shipping component
$70 GST Compile user fee - is this for the person who calculates the amount ???
I had no choice in the customs brokers as this was arranged by the contact in the USA
Anyway it's done now and I know better for next time.........
PS I forgot to add in on my earlier post the cost of the GMC pipe and muffler so the cost keeps climbing so I am about to hide the receipts in a deep hole and like you said it is what it is!
Cheers
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(http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/justinbowtell/RM465-2.jpg)
(http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/justinbowtell/RM465-1.jpg)
Hey Bitten, hope you have added the cylinder nuts !!!!! hate to see all that work go to waist ..
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Well spotted! - and my wife got her tea towel back as well!!
This was at soft build stage as I was waiting on a bunch of stuff and was bored
Cheers
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couple of others to add in time slot booking fee,trucking fee
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Wow looks like you got off light with the security fee at the US side
The problem with fees is most of them apply the full container fees to your pallet of bits. But defintiely Australia has pretty imaginative in the fee generation stakes.
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nearly finished this one/i,ll add up what its cost /probablly 5k
(http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo263/ozmaico/IMGP3870.jpg)
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one more piece of advice never let wife/girlfriend find the list of money spent i have seen that get ugly ;D
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Here is my before (found leaning up against a shed south of Perth) and after Suzuki RM400N 1979.
Total cost of rebuild around $5000...i never kept reciepts....it was an act of love.. ;D
and still not finished....rear shocks are a little long..you learn so much rebuilding yourself.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/Airfireman/100_6603.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v318/Airfireman/PA1504032.jpg)
Tim
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When i bought this RM125C i wasn't even sure which way i wanted to go with it.
It wasn't pretty to look at,but the day i got it,i already had it down to a frame 2 hrs later and thought "she aint a bad old stick"
Maybe being on arvo shift and then rebuilding it in the lounge room kept me interested to see how it would turn out.
The further i got into it the more i realised that the core of the bike was pretty good to work with and agree with Marc that starting with a decent
bike helps alot.
The biggest fun is the "chase" at swap meets and searching around the world on Ebay etc.
It does get expensive,but having Suzuki keep quite a bit of parts still in stock after 30+ years is a bonus to keep going.
I started noting things down and piling up the receipts but half way through the build i just filed them away and didn't bother anymore.
I just like working on bikes,it keeps me occupied and seeing the finished product be it a lounge queen or whatever frankenbike is FUN.
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/hjcoupe/Picture373.jpg)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/hjcoupe/Picture772RE.jpg)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/hjcoupe/Picture773RE.jpg)