OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Graeme M on May 27, 2011, 12:42:21 pm
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This post covers old ground, but it's prompted by the recent comment in the CRC 2011 thread. Pre 75 racing in NSW appears to be in the doldrums. From what I can see, it is still pretty popular in WA, Vic and Qld. I could be wrong though, so I'd welcome comment from those states.
I don't actively race with HEAVEN these days, but the few meetings I've been to recently shows me bugger all bikes on the track in those classes. The growth classes are Evo, Pre 85 and now Pre 90. This has to reflect the aging demographic. But I think there's another factor at play. In NSW we have as far as I know one active club for traditional Pre 85 VMX and it's Sydney based. I have no idea if there is any vintage going on elsewhere in the State, which is surprising really. It's a big state.
Now, that one club races regularly at tracks such as Bulahdelah, Canberra, Lakes and Lithgow. Most of those tracks are MX tracks used regularly for modern competition and hence are usually not especially Pre 75 sympathetic. That's not to say they are rubbish tracks or that you can't ride a Pre 75 bike on them, because of course you can.
But.
The VCM in Victoria, WAVMX in WA, and BMCC in Qld all run their races on what look like natural terrain grasstracks or on era sympathetic (read 'gentle') tracks like Nudgee.
Now, I tend to think Pre 75 as an active class is on the way out. The riders of that era are now aged from 55 up, with most in their 60s. I suspect that while some wwould be fit and healthy and happy to run any track at all, most are not. My guess is the average guy in that age bracket, with a Pre 75 bike, would rather race on gentler terrain that is more suitable to his age, fitness, skill level, and bike longevity.
My question is, would Pre 75 regain lost ground if we had more events on suitable tracks? I don't mean a 10 round series, I'm thinking maybe 2 to 3 events a year on natural terrain grasstracks somewhere.
I'm not proposing who does it, or where, or having any sort of shot at any club. I'm simply asking the question. Would NSW vintage riders be more likely to support Pre 75 if there were a couple of events a year on a more suitable track? Or if in addition to the HEAVEN races, there were a couple of non-competitive Pre 75 only 'ride days' on a suitable track?
HEAVEN's Canowindra event stands out to me as an example of the sort of thing I mean - even though it's a bit flat, it's a Hell fun event.
Or... is time passing Pre75 by?
What do you think? Please no sledging personalities or clubs. I am simply wanting to see some discussion about what we think would revitalise Pre 75, or if we think Pre 75 is slowly fading from the scene.
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Pre '75 always had some limits on available bikes and some of those broke early in the piece such as CR250's as well as the riders age. Some others came out early and realized that the good old times of bikes not starting, breaking down and falling off were better off left in romance. I think it's held up quite well under those considerations.
One huge mistake in my mind was always 4" of travel, it should always have been 5" - that inch does make a massive difference on track and many bikes have to be limited back to the 4" even from standard. This extra inch of course will help to preserve bikes and bodies, is true to the era and in no way threatens the next class up.
When I became interested in getting back into racing in the early 90's the club that was pushing it only wanted to run a local hard pack MX track and I had a business and 3 children to feed so I wasn't interested in being hurt and looked for alternatives, firstly running some races with the Beaudesert club for VMX who only ran in local paddocks for a couple of years before establishing QVMX specifically for over 30's, pre '75 and natural terrain MX.
QVMX's pre '75 success came from "natural terrain" to answer your question and now the 5" rule change should be seriously looked at, I've tried before but there's a few people stuck in the 4" rut and I can't for the life of me understand why.
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there is nothing wrong with 4 inches, and having a rough ride ,
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I won't be folding mine in half for anyone.
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Hi,
you had better start a new thread, this could get noisy,
Its the "modern" long travel bikes with 9 or more inches of travel that make the tracks rutted and at the end of the day that makes 4inches seem like not enough,
Iv'e ridden on tracks that are so deeply rutted that the ruts are changing gears and pulling the brake pedal on.
what say we start up a new Club for riders over 30 pre 75 bikes and natural terrain only,
oh hang on a minute that sounds familiar, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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if you did a global survey , you will find ,around 50% go for more than 4"
:D good one Walter.
yes and they are pre75 secrets which if I told you I'd have to shoot you. ;)
So no comment of how to run and keep a pre75 club active with a good solid foundation and happy membership ;D
cheers A
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I think natural terrain motorcross was completely part of the pre 75 experience, you just staked a track out in some farmers paddock and rode .... so having to run pre 75 on modern MX tracks and all the rest of the hoo hah just makes it seem not like it was in 74.....
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The VCM, Classic Scramble Club in Victoria, WAVMX in WA, and BMCC in Qld all run their races on what look like natural terrain grasstracks
;)
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+1 = 3 on Natural Terrain
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Although I know nothing about the pre 75 class or many other classes for that matter ::) Coming from a recent road racing background, it seems to be a similar situation to historic road racing.
In Qld there is a distinct lack of Post Classic (Period 4 1963-72) and Forgotten Era (Period 5 73-82) and even the recently approved New Era (Period 6 83-90). The most popular historic class is what is called Post Modern (90-95) which is not a formal class (as its not in the GCR) but clubs can run this class at their discretion, similar to the Pre 90 situation.
I believe NSW & Vic has a much more popular historic racing scene, probably due to the higher number of clubs and tracks that cater for them, but they a much occupied with navel gazing and discussing whether the $2 widget on someone's bike is compliant with the GCR.......
Not really relevant to VMX but just for a comparison (and to start getting my post numbers up :D)
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Not really relevant to VMX but just for a comparison (and to start getting my post numbers up :D)
:D ;D works well for most of us hey :D just talk shit and your numbers go up :D
hell, before you know it you could become a legend like the rest of us ::)
Mind you, you'll have to talk a lot of shit to pull in front of some of the highest offenders ::)
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or bishboy, staying on long enough and not deleting your ozvmx forum account ;D
might be a prize for the most tolerant either/or persistantly painful ;) ;D
cheers A
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I think the record stands at 6250 :D
and more if you have multie personalities ;D
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there is nothing wrong with 4 inches, and having a rough ride ,
I haven't seen any VMX in China.
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Interesting thread,and topical.
Most successfull club is WAVMX who have stuck to their Pre75 principal.A Pre85 club is gaining interest in WA and I think this is the way to preserve both eras. Cross membership & co-operation ensures the interests of both are served.
Qvmx has drifted heavily towards the later bikes, and Brisbane is quite healthy in Pre75. Club days pull nearly a full grid of Pre65-Pre70 bikes.
My observation is that at recent Nationals, Pre75 is still the biggest class. The negative trend for the older [Pre60-65& 70] bikes and older riders is combining age groups and classes as the programns have become unmanageable with the addition of newer classes.
The proposed split at Pre78 as "Classic" and Evolution, Pre85 & Pre90 as "PostClassic" should solve issues for both eras. While this is applicable only for Nationals, promotors could apply it to other bigger events as Graeme has suggested.
I think preserving the age groups in Pre75 would keep the era going, and the introduction of age groups as proposed for Evolution should keep a few more riding in that class. MA is now recognising the over 70 Supersenior group.
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Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the 5 inches rear travel, recent visits to USA, Sweden & UK, confirm that Pre75 is restricted to 4 inches. I assume that 4 was chosen by the wise men that started VMX because with very few exceptions that was pretty much standard in those days.
Pre78 ably caters for the trend to 5-6in to 9in before the really long legs became the norm in the late 70s.In short the current rules reflect the eras.
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We, the classic scramble club, have alway`s ran vmx meetings on natural terrain tracks, ( grass Paddocks and always will, the trouble with some of the clubs in the early stage of vmx where running race meeting on moderns race track and making us ride steep table tops, over the years tracks in the 60`s where grass tracks, not any jump if their where they where only a metre high, once the 70`s came around they started to introducing larger jumps plus some where natural drop offs,but still natural terrain, some tracks where set up in old quarries, as the bikes get older we get older so its only natural that we prefer natural terrain, and should alway be that, Common cents.
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I think it's an age thing. I'm 49 when I was 14 it was 1976. Between 14 and 17 are your most formative years. I have no interest in B40's nor Matchless's, AJS etc. But a '76 Bully really floats my boat. In short and IMO not much you can do about it I'm afraid.
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I am pretty attached to my pre 75 bikes, really they are Vintage MX as opposed to almost modern VMX that the pre 85 bikes represent. I think WAVMX sticking to pre 75 has been successful because the bikes have character and tracks are obviously a complete enjoyable alternative to modern racing.
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the VMXWA home track of Dandaloo park is purely for pre75, no other type of bikes are allowed on it. it is a prime example of a great pre75 track you can go flat out on any early era bike. Anyone who has ridden it will tell you how good it is to ride a pre75 on it. But the reason is, because the club is purely pre75 and has remained that way for 15yrs with no thought of changing. therefore every meeting looks at the track as to whether it is suitable for pre75.
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Clubs that only cater for pre75 can also run other meeting like pre 90 era, pre85 era, trials, vinduro, pony express, if they wish too, its their legal right to run these sort of meeting, if they wish to raise money for their club you don`t have to just run pre 75 race meetings to raise money.
If their was ever going to be a split, the pre 75 era should include a new class to cater for these models. 75 model, 76,models.
Pre 90 Meetings would cater for pre85. pre 80 era which will Include 1979 models,78 models,77model bikes. End of story.
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All good food for thought. My main point I think is that it *seems* to me that Pre 75, at a club level, is stagnating in NSW. As people have observed above, the successful Pre 75 clubs promote events on natural terrain tracks. I'm thinking that a 2 or 3 event series, whether a genuine competitive series or a non-competitive thing, held on natural terrain grasstrack, would be attractive to the potential riders. Would such a series help bring more back to the track?
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As a flattracker I'd love to see more " Natural " terrane events.
Not too many land owners prepared to make land available & or it's getting harder and harder to gain MA approval.
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Graeme yes as an ex heaven member ( moved away ) the pre 70 class was a total of 4 in 2004 mind you there were at least 10 other bikes out in the club , it was the usual answer the track are ok in the morning but too rutted in the arvo . Here in Tas we do not have the speedway act so we still go out on Sat and peg out a track and ride on Sun . on our last grasstrack the pre 75 was the largest class . Suprising as we run juniors and moderns . where as the next event motocross the numbers were less than half in the pre 75s .
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I am increasingly concluding that the pre-78 and post-77 eras represent related but separate sports. Much like modern MX or trailriding, there's tons of overlap, of course - but they are different sports.
I mean, plenty of us have both era bikes, but plenty of us have moderns too...
The vast majority of the conflict within VMX disappears when the eras separate, as the Victorian model demonstrates.
In contrast, the NSW model (one size fits all) seems to be the epitome of discontent and unrealised potential. Including underwhelming fields at the CRC.
FWIW, the CRC was hurt by date clashes with both RetroMX and Nepean Vintage DT, and I'm told that the pre-75 grid at the CRC wasn't as weak as has been reported.
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I'm thinking that a 2 or 3 event series, whether a genuine competitive series or a non-competitive thing, held on natural terrain grasstrack, would be attractive to the potential riders. Would such a series help bring more back to the track?
yes..competition happens with or without the trophy/rewards :)
Why a series-main issues would be clashing dates.
Not too many land owners prepared to make land available & or it's getting harder and harder to gain MA approval.
One of the keys- gettin a good relationship with land owners and keeping it !!.
No problem with MA,track inspection by a level 3 offical and its done..
cheers A
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we at qvmx up here in qld run all our meets on grasstrack natural terrain 8)
except cononodale we always cater for pre75 bikes but the numbers do not come
they all seem to be stuck in brisbane riding around a small track all the time
last week we had a meeting at coles creek 1.8 klm long grass track
and it was pre 75 friendly but bugger all turned up just a few regulars
we try to cater for all classes to make it fair for everyone but they are not turning up
and i cant believe brisbane club is running its queensland vintage championships
a week before cd8 WHAT THA :o
whos going to that not me just the regulars and they dont get the numbers so they cant constitute
a championship class anyway. we recently had a pre75 practice day the day before a club day at rocksberg
i think about 8 turned up and this track is only45 min from brisbane
so work that out ::)
i think pre 75 is dying off if riders are not turning up to meetings that are catered for them
so dont blame the later classes that are running in the events if we didnt have them ther would be no vmx
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I have be saying this for a long time now, centres in the 70`s specially Victoria were very strong, now its not so important, its time they come back together as one, with a maxuim 8 strong race meetings through out victoria on the best natural terrain Track that are available and it can be done, for etc they done have to be in this order.
1. HBBB
2. Gerrangameet (natural Terrain
3. Mirboo North (natural terrain
4. New Track ( north) ( natural Terrain
5. Taralgon
6. Barrabool A bit of everything
7. Stoney creek Natural Terrain
8. Gellibrand ( Natural Terrain
9. Harrow ( Natural Terrain
10. Australia vintage Titles ( hoisting State
10. CD9
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Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the 5 inches rear travel, recent visits to USA, Sweden & UK, confirm that Pre75 is restricted to 4 inches. I assume that 4 was chosen by the wise men that started VMX because with very few exceptions that was pretty much standard in those days.
I believe they used the CR Hondas as the baseline, what a shame.
You ought to check out the amount bikes using spacers to limit travel to 4" on rear shocks at the next titles.
Most bikes had around 6.5" front and 4.5" rear then (besides some late 74 models of course) and of course many people were increasing the travel themselves from '73 and heavily in '74 but thats for another thread.
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I wonder what the travel for the AJS 'almost LTR' shock position was?
I reckon the rules should be straight age related rather than re-writing history for whatever reason.
(http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn458/mx250syd/OzVMX/15493479-273062-large.jpg)
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I don't go to national meetings coz I feel it's wrong that I have to reduce the travel of my 74 Maico & 77 Husqvarna (or Montesa) to be legal by the current Australian rules even though the bikes are standard as in the year of production. If they had an suspension advantage in '74 & '77 so it should be today. Why should we be penalised just to comply with our "suspect" rules. To pay a premium for 3 races, then have issues with compliance of a standard bike is just way to hard. Where's the fun in that?
K
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I can only discuss from the Queensland perspective, the number one complaint is that the tracks are too rough. Qvmx runs natural terrain BUT still they are too rough! Coles Creek...too rough, Biddaddaba....too rough. The guys are getting too old and frail and just cant handle the bumps any more. The reality is, if you have a pre75 bike, go to Nudgee, and if you have a later model bike from pre 78 on, go to QVMX events. On a side note, I think that pre78 has been the big disappointment and has never hit it's straps. What a shame.
Also, a big shame is people not taking any interest in eras that they never grew up in.I think it's an age thing. I'm 49 when I was 14 it was 1976. Between 14 and 17 are your most formative years. I have no interest in B40's nor Matchless's, AJS etc. But a '76 Bully really floats my boat. In short and IMO not much you can do about it I'm afraid.
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good thing about QLD is that we have 2 clubs that get along - alot of people are members of both clubs.i like pre 75 but 130kg on 4`` hurts a little so something with a bit more suspension works for me,and nudgee isnt too rough,thanks to having a tractor and good people looking after the track.so you can take your choice of what you want ride cruzy old style mx track or natrual terrain,pretty well can get a ride every 2 weeks during the season.the QLD titles have been had the week before to encourage interstate riders we got a few last year and an international
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I reckon the rules should be straight age related rather than re-writing history for whatever reason.
My sentiments as well. Who wants to be part of something that is a lie?
“In the day” manufacturers blueprints were raised to suit new parameters of a desired increase in maximum suspension travel limits. The primary foundation stone of the manufactures intended result.
Why should a ridder have his manufacturers intention for their working geometry(dynamic modelling) destroyed? Doesn’t make for much incentive. Destroyed all because some other manufacturer was living in the past, dragging the chain or not as “forward” thinking.
The chronological cut of point should be the true representation of the competition in the day. The true showcase, ie; the true competition of the day, which was a war of design waged by manufactures. The true showcase of competition of the era was actually started and waged on the drawing board.
Some quite often use the term “level playing field” to argue a perversion of the rules, to suit themselves.
Whereas the history of the era is the truth of the era. It is already “accurately” contained by the chronological cut-off.
The current rules make a mockery out of the era and use us as a part of a deceitful portrayal of something other than what, truly “was in the day”. I for one would rather be a part of history, not a pack of lies.
And before impaled by poisoned arrows.
I would consider “FAIRNESS” should be easy to achieve. The truth will always be easier to achieve, scrutineer and police, than a “pack of lies”.
The truth is and are the designs that were available off the shop floor UP TO the 31st December 1974. NOT SECRET SQUIRREL WORKS MACHINES, WHICH WERE NOT AVAILABLE TO US AT ALL.
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We are the “masses” and I therefore imply the history of mass production. Ease of access for all, is what I call a level playing field.
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Back in the 70`s was the Australia titles meeting run over several rounds or one day events does anybody know.
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Back in the 70`s was the Australia titles meeting run over several rounds or one day events does anybody know.
Gday 33M, here is a program from the 75 Titles which was run over 2 days.
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=11593.0
Regards Stan.
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i think pre 75 is dying off if riders are not turning up to meetings that are catered for them
so dont blame the later classes that are running in the events if we didnt have them ther would be no vmx
Did you ever consider 'tacking on' was different to "catering for"?
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My sentiments as well. Who wants to be part of something that is a lie?
I would consider “FAIRNESS” should be easy to achieve. The truth will always be easier to achieve, scrutineer and police, than a “pack of lies”.
Because half the field would be 74.5 Maico GP's. The suspension rule has at least allowed a competitive variety within the grid.
I'm sure there was some thinking towards people not wanting to cut up standard bikes to increase travel to be competitive but I will always maintain the 5" is a better choice, more realistic to what people were actually using and available to all without frame mods.
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Thanks Stan.
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"Pre-75" wasn't ever supposed to be specifically about recreating the year 1974. It is supposed to represent the short travel era - so the travel restrictions make sense on that level.
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Pre 75 was about re inventing the spirit of the past 60`s, 70`s, era and history of scrambles and later motocross, if their was bikes with any modifaction the bikes and owner were put in a class which was called the modified class later became pre 80 class. what l would like to know if their has been any decision made with this split. and cut off dates.
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My sentiments as well. Who wants to be part of something that is a lie?
I would consider “FAIRNESS” should be easy to achieve. The truth will always be easier to achieve, scrutineer and police, than a “pack of lies”.
Because half the field would be 74.5 Maico GP's.
That is not even a relevant answer or response to my quote you have posted. Unsubstantiated opinion at best, why would you attempt to pass opinion as a fact?
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Don't the americans & poms get around the longer travel bikes needing to limit their shocks by running pre74 instead?
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"Pre-75" wasn't ever supposed to be specifically about recreating the year 1974. It is supposed to represent the short travel era - so the travel restrictions make sense on that level.
That's just getting down to semantics. Perhaps you would be better off spending your energy to lobby a change to the cut off date? Maybe to pre74, as in the UK.
Because half the field would be 74.5 Maico GP's.
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Or than again maybe pre74.5? cut-off.
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To limit the suspension of bikes to less than what they were, is a false image and representation of a cut off date.
Two of my friends that are not inclined to allocate time to written forum debate, they both have pre75 mounts. One uses his for dirt track. The other as a garage queen. Both abstain from using them as mounts in VMX. They consider it as silent protest, to a rule that has been conceived from opinion rather than precedence of reality. They are of course free to make that choice. They both have plenty of other rides, but yes, the class suffers.
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Mick,
Right the way back, the "pre-75" class was aiming for the short travel era. The cut-off date was simply convenient - and flawed. Seeing as various manufacturers adopted LTR at different times, then there's simply no way that a single year cut off will accurately represent an era.
From my point of view, we need to either change the rules to reflect the ERAs, or make them specifically reflect the bikes that were available in 1974 - and then be a hard-nosed prick about enforcing that. The current method of mixing and matching is where most of the grief comes from...
If we were to change pre-75 to pre-74, then be prepared for some lynchings - most 1974 model bikes would be excluded, and their owners would be seriously piddled off...
Don't get me wrong: I think there's a lot of ways the rules could be improved - even though the basic ideas are very, very good - and I agree with the direction you're heading. I was just trying to bring a wider perspective into the discussion.
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Mick,
Right the way back, the "pre-75" class was aiming for the short travel era. The cut-off date was simply convenient - and flawed. Seeing as various manufacturers adopted LTR at different times, then there's simply no way that a single year cut off will accurately represent an era.
From my point of view, we need to either change the rules to reflect the ERAs, or make them specifically reflect the bikes that were available in 1974 - and then be a hard-nosed prick about enforcing that. The current method of mixing and matching is where most of the grief comes from...
If we were to change pre-75 to pre-74, then be prepared for some lynchings - most 1974 model bikes would be excluded, and their owners would be seriously piddled off...
Don't get me wrong: I think there's a lot of ways the rules could be improved - even though the basic ideas are very, very good - and I agree with the direction you're heading. I was just trying to bring a wider perspective into the discussion.
A debate is looking for an opening to drive a wedge in, damm hard when I agree with the common sense displayed in the structure of that post.
There will never be a solution or out come that suits all. There will never be pre71, pre72, pre73, pre74, pre75, pre76 and so on. What a mistake that would be, not going to happen. So a compromise as settled by majority, yes. But I would prefer to concede to the honesty of the cut-off date, rather than shit. And as we all know, I am most certainly not the only one who thinks along these lines.
I am saying, that me/I loath seeing the difficulties of mods and policing, based on the intent of reducing a machine to less than what it was at the point of production.
I/We, or more to my point me, prefer the program to improve! Not to step backwards. It goes against a natural grain. well for many of us, I would imagine.
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my take on this is most of you guys have only been around vmx
for last 5 years or so
our club started in late 90s and was mainly pre75 and a bit of pre 78
we have run these classes to the point were the numbers have dropped off
even pre 78 is down
and its not the tracks and they are not too rough for pre75
some older members might remember smiths rd it was grass track and rough
brisbane ran meets there for years till it was closed down
we even ran the qld titles at tivoli jumps and all
no one complained and we had riders from interstate as well
and full fields in nearly all classes not like now
we have a smooth short track f all jumps
and hardley any riders to constitute classes
so dont blame tracks >:(
its probably more of a economic issue people cant afford to race and only go to the CD events
which is ok . dont get me wrong there is a place for nudgee for the older riders its great
just wondering why the not so old riders are not coming to other events ???
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Maybe the older fellow just done want to race their bikes anymore, I have been involve with VMX since the day it started, I put it down to the cost of the day, license, fuel.
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our club started in late 90s and was mainly pre75 and a bit of pre 78
we have run these classes to the point were the numbers have dropped off
even pre 78 is down
actually QVMX had it's origins in about '93 when I started running some natural terrain events using Beaudesert clubs licences then getting under our own QVMX banner (always I extend my thanks to Lindsay Granger for that help).
QVMX was a pre '75, natural terrain specific club and the only way you could run a '78 is if you were a pre '75 runner as well - that worked out very well by the way.
My direct answer to your post and the topic about lower numbers in QVMX's case is that the club has gone about as far away from it's original intentions as you possibly could, good luck to the club's management if numbers are what you want overall but don't be bewildered why pre '75 mentality doesn't want to mix with pre' 2025 bikes or whatever year you are up to now.
Seriously this isn't a bitch about the club now, congratulations on continued success and providing riders & bikes a place to be.
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To limit the suspension of bikes to less than what they were, is a false image and representation of a cut off date.
Two of my friends that are not inclined to allocate time to written forum debate, they both have pre75 mounts. One uses his for dirt track. The other as a garage queen. Both abstain from using them as mounts in VMX. They consider it as silent protest, to a rule that has been conceived from opinion rather than precedence of reality. They are of course free to make that choice. They both have plenty of other rides, but yes, the class suffers.
With regards to the suspension limits imposed on pre75 bikes, are there any other bikes that are limited other than a 74.5 Maico? That is the only example I have ever heard IN PRE 75 and if it is the case then really, this is a storm in a tea cup. For one, how many 74.5 Maico's see the track? And two, 99.9% of them would have replacement shocks that would conform to the era. All over half an inch of travel ::).
Your mates are just lazy in my eyes. A 'silent protest' is another word for doing nothing. If they feel so strong about it, then push for the change. I am also to assume they both have 74.5 Maico's with standard suspension on them?
our club started in late 90s and was mainly pre75 and a bit of pre 78
we have run these classes to the point were the numbers have dropped off
even pre 78 is down
actually QVMX had it's origins in about '93 when I started running some natural terrain events using Beaudesert clubs licences then getting under our own QVMX banner (always I extend my thanks to Lindsay Granger for that help).
QVMX was a pre '75, natural terrain specific club and the only way you could run a '78 is if you were a pre '75 runner as well - that worked out very well by the way.
My direct answer to your post and the topic about lower numbers in QVMX's case is that the club has gone about as far away from it's original intentions as you possibly could, good luck to the club's management if numbers are what you want overall but don't be bewildered why pre '75 mentality doesn't want to mix with pre' 2025 bikes or whatever year you are up to now.
Seriously this isn't a bitch about the club now, congratulations on continued success and providing riders & bikes a place to be.
Nice little self plug (again) at the start. QVMX has gone where the members have voted to. What the members want, they will invariably get as that's what a club is all about. And why don't they want to mix with '2025' bikes any way? This is one of the reasons why they are dwindling. Sheer stupidity IMO . Not wanting to see or ride with the later model bikes as they aren't vintage bikes. Yes they look modern as they have disc's, watercooling, single shock etc like a modern bike. But they ARE vintage bikes. Not if you are pushing 50 but yes if you are 40. Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees. Another one,modern bikes cut up the track. With the numbers we get to a vmx event? BULLSHIT! I'm only considered young(ish) around vmx circles at 44 but one thing is for sure, I will neck myself before I get all one eyed and set in my ways like alot of old blokes get. The ones that are dead against later model bikes, or suspension limits, or tracks too rough, or I don't like the president, or the tracks are too far away, or any other pathetic little excuse you can make up so you can sit on the couch and watch the idiot box, ARE the reason pre75 is dying.
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Good to see the old Brad back....you tell em pumkin!!.. ;D :-*
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With regards to the suspension limits imposed on pre75 bikes, are there any other bikes that are limited other than a 74.5 Maico? That is the only example I have ever heard IN PRE 75 and if it is the case then really, this is a storm in a tea cup. For one, how many 74.5 Maico's see the track?
Some time ago I measured up the rear suspension travel on a '74 WR400 Husky (fitted with a Mag 250 swingarm) and found it to be about 6 inches, which is not much less than a '74.5 Maico. So I would think that a '74 Husky Mag 250 would be over the travel limit. I have not had a good look at a '74.5 KTM or a YZ250/360B , but I would imagine that they would also be over the limit . I am sure that there would be other examples as well .
A couple of years ago I decided to sell my pre '75 bikes, because I couldn't see much sense in having them sitting around and only getting to ride them once or twice a year. But now that we have a new club in my local area that caters for pre '75 bikes, I have got some enthusiasm back for that class and gone out and purchased another Maico big bore (as well as building up a 250 class bike) . Obviously, I think that the only way for pre '75 class numbers to increase, is to try and get younger guys interested .
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I don't think the cost of a local event keeps people away. Once you've paid for the bike, the riding gear, etc a day out racing is very cheap entertainment, even including fuel, day licence etc.
I basically agree holeshotbuddy - no matter what the clubs do, the numbers are dwindling. There's always an excuse to stay at home - but if you want to do it, you will find a way to do it.
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Amix of dedicated vmx riders getting older - Modern trail/mx bikes so good to older riders bodies they buy them and have a choice what to ride - restricted by national body as to tracks,=better tracks more riders - and economic times
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mark i have just noticed the numbers for pre 75 have dwindled down at
club level over the years
nothing to do with tracks or classes
we set our classes on the day (like in the old days)
basically if enough pre 70 bikes turned up we would let
them have a class otherwise if only a couple show they run with the
pre 75s i see it as a yearly attrition the numbers get less every year :(
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Brad - YZB's have to be restricted to be eligible also.
cheers
Rossco
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QVMX has gone where the members have voted to.
They don't actually have that right because the club is constitutionally a pre '75 club, but I digress, I don't really care where it's at now because when I get back I'll do it all over again my way anyway.
I tell you my QVMX story to point out that I have a reasonable grip on and a track record on what makes pre '75 successful and thats relevant to this thread.
Oh, and because I'm awesome.
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Some time ago I measured up the rear suspension travel on a '74 WR400 Husky and found it to be about 6 inches .... I am sure that there would be other examples as well .
I haven't had a pre '75 bike that I didn't have to falsely limit to 4" other than the '73 OSSA SDR I think.
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:D :D :D ::) ::) ::) ??? ??? ??? yes i give up :'( :'( :'(
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The hypocrisy I love is the pedantic interpretation of suspension travel regs and laissez faire for engine work ::).
Then 'they' piously pontificate about 'representing the period' and 'fairness of competition' :P.
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Once apon a time i had a little 1974 Tm all yellow and nice with 5.7" of front fork travel and not quite as much on the back. raced this for 1 season got a brand new RM125 heaps more travel front and back raced this till RM125s came out alongside TM 125 and cr125 hondas and all sorts of bike all with different suspensin travel. we all did in those days if you loved a suzy you just kept on rideing it no matter what the susspension travel was and the rougher the track the better you had to ride. I can still remember the old TM swapping ends over the woops at gilderoy and that was just the fun of it. Classes should be set on year of manufacture if the bikes susspension was longer travel in 74 when it was built big deal i still used to beat a hell of a lot of bikes with better susspension it still all depends on the RIDER. most of us could have riden a late model anything and still been beaten by one of the floods on 69 pursang. Most Euro bikes had better suspension than the Jap stuff but the jap stuff cheaper so that was what we rode. Stick to the yearof manufacture as the guideline because thats what you would be raceing against back when they were built, and they all lived happily ever after! ;D
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The hypocrisy I love is the pedantic interpretation of suspension travel regs and laissez faire for engine work ::).
Then 'they' piously pontificate about 'representing the period' and 'fairness of competition' :P.
Nothing wrong with that is there, MX ? Engines have always been open season in racing, surely ? Get 'em going as best you can with any means at your disposal...
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I rode my Suz TM125L ('74), in the day, with skunk works rear suspension linkage giving 7 inches at the rear. The same linkage was available for most of the mass produced MX bikes at the time. I would love to race pre 75 as I did in '74. my old 51 yo back would like a touch more travel also ;-)