OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: cappra on March 27, 2011, 10:17:46 am
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I have found what I have been told is a Ron Grant framed 250 Suzuki. No numbers or data plate,
just a Ron Grant sticker on the swingarm. It just dosn't look like a Suzuki frame to me. It also has
Morris wheels with a Hurst Airheart disc setup in the rear, Suzuki front disc with Ceriani fork assembly.
I also have the 250 twin motor that was in it as well. Any information on this bike would be greatly
appreciated!
(http://southwestmontesa.com/images/barnfind004.jpg)
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Where ever did you dig that up from, Cappra ? That certainly looks a lot like a period racer, in fact the chassis could well be one that Steve Roberts knocked up for Colemans NZ when they were a hot item, the diagonal tubes from above the swingarm to the under-tank area are a clue here. The Morris mags and discs both ends are also period-correct, the front disc and caliper are off a GT750. Don't know where you are, but if you chase down Peter Shires in Darwin or Bruce Woodley in Geelong, I'm sure they will be able to offer more info. Good score !
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Was sitting in my brother in laws storage shed for the past 22 years. He was going to take it to the dump!
I'm located in Arizona.
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That certainly looks a lot like a period racer, in fact the chassis could well be one that Steve Roberts knocked up for Colemans NZ when they were a hot item,
Yeah looks like Grant frame for TR engine, let me know if you want to sell it.
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This is just an observation of the frame construction....it appears to be both brazed and MIG welded possibly pointing to a modified production frame. The swingarm and overall design cry 'factory' but the engine mounts and other mods appear to be done post original production. As GD points out, the Morris mags are correct period and the Airheart rear disc cry's out that the bike was built in the USA as I suspect Euro or Aussie/Kiwi builders would have used Girlock or something similar over Airhearts less than brilliant unit. The bike looks more a modified "something' rather than the works bike that Ron Grant would have ridden. It's quite possibly be one of the race replica 250's that he built in the early 70's.
I'll be interested to hear what this turns out to be......whatever it is you've saved an interesting bike from certain death Jared ;).
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I'm jealous. A T250 engine and off to Barber and Daytona for you. Post pics when you get back ;D ;D ;D
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Firko,
I think you have hit the nail right on the head. My brother in law has told me that he bought it at
a police auction in L.A. in the mid seventies. The bike was running at the time and had a pair of those
super lightweight Mikuni's. I am curious to what the tail piece looked like. Did Ron Grant have a shop in the
states?
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Not really, but as he was a works Suzuki US rider from their inception, on 250s, 500s and then 750s, he was able to get a fair crack at the gear from the race shop. He built an interesting 750 for Pat Hennen in 1974 with a modified GT750 engine in a Rickman chassis, sponsored by Ron Grant Racing Specialties.
Grant formed a close alliance with the NZ Suzuki distributors Colemans from when he began annually travelling down under in the off-season of 1970/71, and it's from this alliance that those TR-style chassis began to appear : as Firko has spotted they weren't much different than stock geometry with the diagonal brace installed, but were quite effective. Again, good score !
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I am sure the frame is a modified production X6 or T20 frame. The footpeg mounts look just like the production frame type with the addition of a brace, there is no brace between the downtubes at the upper engine mount brackets like on the later T250 frames and the swingarm looks to be stock as well allthough it was common to add an inch to the swingarm and this can only be found by measuring it. The factory TR250 frames had a much nicer triangulated footpeg mount and a curved frame brace where this frame has a straight brace from just above the rear engine mounts to the frame under the fuel tank. This straight bracing was found to be superior to the curved brace providing more rigidity and some TR's were modified just like this.
If you do have carbs with a remote float bowl then these are TR250 factory items, so the motor may be a TR250 in a T20 modified frame.
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i'm with you trailie,she's a stocker,geezas,can't get more stock than that s/arm,chain adjusters,with the usual crossbar struts reinforcing the engine cradle,TZ tank etc,nice period bike, :P
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Give this a try may have some info
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=189916824371189&aid=51798
#8
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Can anyone give me a rough guesstimate on what this roller is worth? Thanks.
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T250- six speed six port, I think I loved it as much as the girl.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/OLDBIKESCANS.jpg?t=1301398922)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/OLDBIKESCANS00002.jpg?t=1301398889)
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Can anyone give me a rough guesstimate on what this roller is worth? Thanks.
I bid $1,000.00
Prime AU.
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Mick...I bags the HK Belmont!
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HAte to brake it to you mick after all these years, but that was a bloke in the check western shirt.
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HAte to brake it to you mick after all these years, but that was a bloke in the check western shirt.
:D :D :D :D :D :D
I meant the beautiful girl in the marone top, she became my wife, and the good looking rooster with the red protective racing sloppy is yours truly ;D
The Suzie was being straightened up again after another of its many, many lay downs ::)
The second picture was taken by my wife. Poor darling used to shake uncontrollably every time she got off the back of that Suzie ::)
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Its not factory race bike like TD/TZ or TR but modified stocker essentially, it also would not fit much in the way of historic racing and be fast. however the frame, wheels and running gear are cool period items that would be a shame to break up. As it stands you can pick up basket case TZs for $2000 so some place about $1500 bucks would be fair, though you may bump into someone who remembers it back in the day and then more.
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Its not factory race bike like TD/TZ or TR but modified stocker essentially, it also would not fit much in the way of historic racing and be fast. however the frame, wheels and running gear are cool period items that would be a shame to break up. As it stands you can pick up basket case TZs for $2000 so some place about $1500 bucks would be fair, though you may bump into someone who remembers it back in the day and then more.
I reckon that hits the nail on the head pretty square.
I believe the two fifty I pictured was a very underrated bike. I latter owned a couple of T500s', a Cobra and a Titan to be correct. Sure they used growl, but the 250 was tight and precise around twisty stuff and would leave its big brothers and every other mammoth for dead, including the police.
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Mick...I bags the HK Belmont!
;D ;D
Ah the memories the memories Firko. I loved the old boys car, when I grew up I bought a two door Monaro, that exact same colour.
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Its not factory race bike like TD/TZ or TR but modified stocker essentially, it also would not fit much in the way of historic racing and be fast. however the frame, wheels and running gear are cool period items that would be a shame to break up. As it stands you can pick up basket case TZs for $2000 so some place about $1500 bucks would be fair, though you may bump into someone who remembers it back in the day and then more.
I'm not sure of the rules or Classes for Historics in the USA but here in Aus it would be a very competitive bike in Period 4. With TZ's and RD's not allowed to race in P4 the Suzuki's are sort after as well as the TD Yamaha.
A T250 came second to a TD last year at the Historic Championships at PI. Not too shabby for what was a road bike running against a race bike. With a few mods they can be reliably fast.
Suzuki had a lot of bad luck and not much success racing the X6 and TR250's in the USA with some 2nd and 3rd places but no wins with their team bikes that I know of. In 1966 it was the 250 Harleys that were beting Suzuki without a Yamaha in sight.
No luck here in Aus either with its bigger brother the T350 taking 9 of the top 10 places at the 6 Hour with 1st place taken by a Yamaha.
I would have a grin like a Cheshire Cat if I had found this ;)
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I believe the two fifty I pictured was a very underrated bike. [/quote]
Yep and the motor went on to power the 250 X7 the first of the 100mph proddy bikes. But the game changers were the TD/TZ Yamahas, they completely dominated road racing through the next decade or two. I guess if you have a racing class for it then it is well worth doing something with.
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Its not factory race bike like TD/TZ or TR but modified stocker essentially, it also would not fit much in the way of historic racing and be fast. however the frame, wheels and running gear are cool period items that would be a shame to break up. As it stands you can pick up basket case TZs for $2000 so some place about $1500 bucks would be fair, though you may bump into someone who remembers it back in the day and then more.
I'm not sure of the rules or Classes for Historics in the USA but here in Aus it would be a very competitive bike in Period 4.
No mag wheels or rear discs allowed in P4, trailie. And that GT750 front disc would be 1973 as well. So, still of some interest, but all in all a P5 bike.
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I have heard from a fellow that has told me that most of these conversions were done
by a shop called Ocelot Engineering, north of Los Angeles. I do remember the name,
but have been unable to find any information on them. He said these bikes were built
in the late sixties. I thought they were from the early seventies.
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My father built a T20 250 road racer that was ridden by Ray Curtis and later, Billy Macdonald.
All I know of it was that dad machined his own cylinder heads but I was too young to know what else he did to it.
On it's first outing at Bathurst, Ray had a big lead in the Senior, 500cc, but couldn't stop it at the end of Conrod.
The Suzuki factory were at that meeting with their own bikes and wanted to buy dad's bike to take back to Japan, anyone who knew my old man would know that he was pretty strong willed, but he wouldn't part with it.
Billy won the Production race at Bathurst one year on Dad's Cobra, they were a bloody good thing.
I've got a T20 in the shed that I'm thinking of Twingling and turning it into a pre 70 Dirt Tracker.
I've got a photo somewhere of the 250 in the Pits at Bathurst with Billy & Dad, I'll post it if I find it.
I'd love to get my hands on the bike.
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I have heard from a fellow that has told me that most of these conversions were done
by a shop called Ocelot Engineering, north of Los Angeles.
Didn't Ocelot also used to do a shock lay down kit for dirt bikes. Anyway mags, front brake and Airheart seem early 70s. Last ditch stand by the Suzuki racers perhaps to field something competitive to TD Yamaha. Make kind of cool classic track day bike, garage decoration ... or race bike if you just want to have a good time.
I think it is a shame relegating bikes to the back of the shed just because they don't fit a current race class or they aren't the fastest thing available within the rules. Riding something uncompetitive gives you a lot of opportunity to blame the bike ;D
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I've got a photo somewhere of the 250 in the Pits at Bathurst with Billy & Dad, I'll post it if I find it.
I'd love to get my hands on the bike.
I would like to see that photo too when you dig it out of your archives SlideRulz :)
No mag wheels or rear discs allowed in P4, trailie. And that GT750 front disc would be 1973 as well. So, still of some interest, but all in all a P5 bike.
you are right GD66, no mags in P4 that does just makes the frame look good :) .... but that GT750 4ls front brake that was listed on Ebay.aus a few weeks ago that didn't sell for $750.00 would have made this a great P4 bike.
I wonder which Country that brake ended up in ???
and Marc is right the TZ dominated racing on the track, from GP down through to club racing, for many many years
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It was back on and went three days ago for $480
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/KGrHqEOKpYE1qzggcf3BNhCWTGM4g_12.jpg?t=1301476571) (http://my.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MyEbay&gbh=1&CurrentPage=MyeBayWatching&ssPageName=STRK:ME:LNLK:MEWAX)
One just went in the states a couple of days ago too, think for $450. They come up allot in the states.
I have been looking at quad shoe brakes for the last few months for my P4 125 Maico. I reckon most would agree Quad shoes look great on old roadies.
Can use a CL350 disc for P4, but it just wouldn't look right. So I am endeavoring to keep it euro, but Grimeca quads shoe brakes aren't cheap.
The new 32mm Ceriani front end arrived yesterday, decent shoe front end soon I hope. And then through rego.
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Pretty difficult not to drool while your looking at these, but there 9" drum ID so a bit out of proportion in a 16" flanged mud catcher.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/KGrHqRjYE1I3JUL5BNg4CZbLQ_12.jpg?t=1301477641)
Pretty freaking groovy but :P
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It was back on and went three days ago for $480
One just went in the states a couple of days ago too, think for $450. They come up allot in the states.
I have been looking at quad shoe brakes for the last few months for my P4 125 Maico. I reckon most would agree Quad shoes look great on old roadies.
Quite good money, they're hard to get hold of here as some un-named South Australian and NSW gents use them with dodgy replica backing plates and have got them thru on P3 Hondas as a sort of replica. I have one in my roadracer but I'd have thought it'd be a bit heavy for a 125 Mick. Bloody good brake when well set up, though... :o
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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/1972-1973-SUZUKI-GT-750-4LS-FRONT-BRAKE-HUB-RIM-WHEEL-/360354805103?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53e6d1f56f ;)
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Maybe I'm a freak but theres something sexy about a huge 4 shoe twin leader front drum on a mudcatcher.....one day....
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nothing freaky about good tastes DC,always maintained a good drum for that 1st initial bite is as good as a disc,(i;m talking earlyish discs here ::), :P
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Quite good money, they're hard to get hold of here as some un-named South Australian and NSW gents use them with dodgy replica backing plates and have got them thru on P3 Hondas as a sort of replica. I have one in my roadracer but I'd have thought it'd be a bit heavy for a 125 Mick. Bloody good brake when well set up, though... :o
[/quote]
The Buzuki GT750 brake doesn't pass muster everywhere, like in UNZUD where it falls in the no Jap parts basket.
Menani magnesium is my $$$$LS wet dream, though my Triton has to be happy with 2LS Norton for now, which is OK that set up stopped a lot of Manx's.
http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk/brakes/menani-magnesium-brake-250mm/prod_192.html
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I have one in my roadracer but I'd have thought it'd be a bit heavy for a 125 Mick. Bloody good brake when well set up, though... :o
Yes Glenn. It is all new and foreign to me the P4 125 thing, and what is best. Got a bit of advise from Lozza earlier in the piece Glenn. Matcho Mick, has been giving me some good guidance. I am looking for a Grimeca 180mm Quad hub only. I have two complete backing plates.
Menani magnesium is my $$$$LS wet dream, though my Triton has to be happy with 2LS Norton for now, which is OK that set up stopped a lot of Manx's.
http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk/brakes/menani-magnesium-brake-250mm/prod_192.html
Yes some beautiful hardware there Marc.
Click on the picture of this one to check the price out, make sure your sitting down first though.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/01ef_12.jpg?t=1301906026) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370396827961&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
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Don't faint, but I have a 180mm 4LS hub only, but have no idea if it's a Grimeca... don't know of any others available in 180mm though. PM me yr email address, and I'll send you a couple of pics.
Cheers GD ;)
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That's as amusing as the $65,000 CCM :D
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Yes, I thought you would enjoy it. I wouldn't like to be buying the whole bike, piece at at time :-[
Pm sent Glenn. I just had to pick my self up of the floor first.
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Pics emailed, bud. ;)
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I've just sent you another email Glenn.
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If theres such a thing as sex on a wheel....thats it!! 8) ;D
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If any of you gentlemen are looking for a Suzuki 4ls drum I have one. But I want $600 for it. On drums for racing smaller capacity bikes the 2ls from the CB 72/77 or CB 450 is a good drum. I use one on my P5 500 yamaha. They are also P4 correct. Curly
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Don't faint, but I have a 180mm 4LS hub only, but have no idea if it's a Grimeca... don't know of any others available in 180mm though. PM me yr email address, and I'll send you a couple of pics.
Cheers GD ;)
I am still stunned, money is in your account now Glenn ;) Cheers mate, thank you.
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If any of you gentlemen are looking for a Suzuki 4ls drum I have one. But I want $600 for it. On drums for racing smaller capacity bikes the 2ls from the CB 72/77 or CB 450 is a good drum. I use one on my P5 500 yamaha. They are also P4 correct. Curly
Here is some good info/comparisons.
I can't see the CB400 listed.
http://www.eurospares.com/drumbrak.htm
Suzuki drum brakes
Model OD x shoe width Swept area Radius x S.A.
(square inches) braking coefficient
GT550/750 4LS (200mm) 7.81" x 1.0" wide (x 2) 49.07 191.6
T500 (1967) (200mm) 8.00" x 1.6" 40.21 160.8
T350 (1970) (180mm) 7.12" x 1.12" 25.06 89.21
X-5 Invader (160mm) 6.25" x 1.09" 21.4 66.87
***********************************
Kawasaki drum brakes
H1R 4LS (250mm) 9.87" x .75" (x2) 46.53 229.74
H1 (1969) (200mm) 7.90" x 1.4" 34.74 137.22
A7SS (180mm) 7.00" x 1.2" 26.38 92.33
***********************************
Yamaha drum brakes
XS-650 (1969) (200mm) 7.80" x 1.3" 31.85 124.2
YDS-6 (1967) (180mm) 7.02" x 1.17" 25.8 90.3
TD3 (260mm) 10.29" x 1.06" (x2) 68.53 352.6
entire front wheel assy, inc. 19" alloy shoulderless rim (36 spoke), axle and
TT100 tyre and tube (and valve and cap!)is 18.5 kg.
Each brake backing plate assy: 2.25kg
***********************************
Honda drum brakes
CB350 (1970) (160mm) 6.30" x 1.4" 27.70 87.25
CB175 (1971) (160mm) 6.20" x 1.18" 22.98 71.24
CB77/1968 CB450 (200mm) 7.88" x 1.18" 29.21 115.08
***********************************
Bridgestone
350 GTR (190mm) 7.40" x 1.2" 27.89 103.20
175 (160mm) 6.20" x 1.18" 22.98 71.24
***********************************
Bultaco drum brakes
250 Metralla (160mm) 6.30" x 1.6" 31.65 99.69
***********************************
Ducati drum brakes
250 (180mm) 7.08" x ???
***********************************
Bianchi
500 GP (230mm 4LS) 9.5" x 1.25" (2) 74.61 354.41
***********************************
BSA
Gold Star (200mm SLS) 8.0" x 1.375" 34.60 138.42
***********************************
Moto Morini
350 Sport (Grimeca 230mm Dual-SLS)
9.05" x 1.16" (2) 65.96 298.47
***********************************
Munch
Mammut 2LS 10.0" x 2.0" 62.83 314.1
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I am still stunned, money is in your account now Glenn ;) Cheers mate, thank you.
[/quote]
Ha-ha, bewdy Mick, ;) managed to get to the PO in time on the way home from work so it's ON THE WAY, son ! 8)
Regards GD
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Maybe I'm a freak but theres something sexy about a huge 4 shoe twin leader front drum on a mudcatcher.....one day....
If theres such a thing as sex on a wheel....thats it!! 8) ;D
I couldn't agree more Davey Crocket, I have never seen such sex on a motorcycle either.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/01ef_12.jpg?t=1301906026)
Glenn has made this possible for me.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/Grimeca.jpg?t=1301998813)
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/HarleyGrimeca1.jpg?t=1301998723)
light weight
and works great
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Yes, I thought you would enjoy it. I wouldn't like to be buying the whole bike, piece at at time :-[
Oh that magnesium 4LS is easiest the most expensive single part off early TZ. 4LS requires pretty careful set up to get the best out of it. I like the twin single cam set up on the Morini, much easier to get equal forces on both sides of the brake.
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Looking at the pics, that is a pretty rare, and seemingly genuine brake for sale. But the early TZ/TR brake not only was alloy (not mag), but is being beautifully replicated by an Aussie living in the Phillipines for around $1500 US. Just go on ebay, his dealer name is bikepeder1, and he's sold aound 20 or so with good results. Interesting...
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hey Mick De,light weight,& works great,your'e only 1/2 right,that brake weighs a ton,(hint,why do you think it's depicted on a tractor ;D),hope your'e not entertaining thoughts of fitting to maico 125 :o,Bikepender also does a neat comical hub/norton hybrid rear wheel,backing plates trick,i bought a set of those red shocks for $100 off him too, :P
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hey Mick De,light weight,& works great,your'e only 1/2 right,that brake weighs a ton,(hint,why do you think it's depicted on a tractor ;D),hope your'e not entertaining thoughts of fitting to maico 125 :o,Bikepender also does a neat comical hub/norton hybrid rear wheel,backing plates trick,i bought a set of those red shocks for $100 off him too, :P
Yep ;D that's where shes going Mick. It only weighs 5KG with axle according to this.
http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk/brakes/grimeca-180-2ls/prod_217.html (http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk/brakes/grimeca-180-2ls/prod_217.html)
Anyhoo, I know your only feeling sorry for me. I suppose you are prepared to relieve me of my problem by swapping me a bucket of resin or chopped mat for it :D thanks mate.
Imagine how sexy it will look when it is colour matched and teamed up to these little Beauties.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/180mm4leadingshoe.jpg?t=1302092357)
I reckon the girls will go wild, hey.
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Sorry to get a little away form those delicious quad leaders but there is some information on Ocelot Engineering at the link below for those still interested.
http://sports.racer.net/engines/suzuki/gt750/page1.htm (http://sports.racer.net/engines/suzuki/gt750/page1.htm)
Thread hijack aside, I picked up a small mistake in the very first paragraph on the above link but the rest seems all good including a possible contact for Ocelot Info ;)
I remember Bert Skuce formerly of Bert Skuce Marine, Newstead QLD in the early 80's showed me his one of these when I worked at Bris. Kwaka. Saved from a sugarcane field at Bundaberg it made a lasting impression on me. This he told me was the first watercooled stroker being a 600cc parallel twin ;) 1937 Scott Flying Squirel
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/Scott_Squirrel_1937.JPG/800px-Scott_Squirrel_1937.JPG)
image from Wikipedia
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Doc great looking bike hey, great save too.
There is or was one on display at the Nabiac Museum, an hour and a quarter north of Newcastle.
A must see if you are on the highway. You will need some hours but. 500 to six hundred bikes there at any one time. I usually go once a year, $11 entry. Spend an hour or so, get a stamp-out. best tee-bone in the world at the local pub for lunch and then back for another hour or so to check the rest out.
1927 Scott Flying Squirrel. Great name hey. Great bit of engineering too. But they don't like you getting drool on it :D
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oops Mick De,i was thinking of the 250mm version,give ya 2 buckets of resin ;D, :P
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If it's any help, the parcel containing the hub weighed 2.62 kg. ;)
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(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/HarleyGrimeca1.jpg?t=1301998723)
Can't say I like the looks of that Splinter - looks very dodgy :-[. I much prefer the certainty of the Suzuki 'at the lever' arrangement 8)
But I love the appearance and aesthetics of the double sided drum 8). But that much Class is wasted on a tractor :-\.
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splitter ;),even better idea is one continuous cable from l to r brake arm through a small wheel arrangement on lever blade,(very old school italian),instant compensation ;), :P
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Hi Glenn, Been too busy to get on here lately, but just letting you know I got received the hub for little Burt. Excellent condition, perfect actually, thank you.
If you need anything done on the east side, just give me a cooee. ;)
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Happy to help, Mick. Found it at a flea market, spoked into a skinny, rusted rim and buggered ribbed tyre, and covered in rust. Cut it out of its' prison, and gave it a beadblast, only then figured out it was only 180mm...it's been awaiting your call ever since. Nice to help get another labour of love out of the garage... :D
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It would appear there are a few replica and aftermarket exotic brake hubs still available.
http://www.jl-mxshop.com/yamaha-replica-rear-brake-346-p.asp
http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk/brakes/cat_3.html?page=1
http://www.budamotor.hu/termekek.php?termek_id=1&language_id=2&b_menu_id=1
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(http://i56.tinypic.com/9bipfc.jpg)
The lanky one in the Lewis Leathers is Billy Mack, the other handsome dude is curly Norm, my dad.
It took a while but I got there.
Bathurst, late 60's, but it's the same year Billy won the production race on Dad's 500 Cobra.
This bike was Rocketship fast, in its day, just couldn't stop it.
I'd love to know where it ended up???
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(http://i56.tinypic.com/9bipfc.jpg)
The lanky one in the Lewis Leathers is Billy Mack, the other handsome dude is curly Norm, my dad.
It took a while but I got there.
Bathurst, late 60's, but it's the same year Billy won the production race on Dad's 500 Cobra.
This bike was Rocketship fast, in its day, just couldn't stop it.
I'd love to know where it ended up???
So good to look at that picture.
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Mick, I can still smell the Fibreglass from dad trying to repair that fairing in the shed at home.
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Good stuff. Looks like the LH pipe may have already vibrated the stinger off... love that early 70s era, hard men at work... ;)
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Zero stingers back then GD and there was no one harder than Bill.
That photo was taken either the day before or the day after he slashed his hand open on a barbed wire fence in the wee hours escaping from the boy's in blue.
The injury was bad enough to stop him riding on the Sunday at the Orange Short Circuit meeting.
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Zero stingers back then GD and there was no one harder than Bill.
Not so sure, on closer inspection it does appear there's a rather small-diameter stinger on the pipe, with the shadow of the footrest making it appear separated. Front brake looks like a 9" Fontana. He has a pre-race glare worthy of a Hinton...
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Apologies GD, I'm showing my 2 Stroke ingnorance.
Now I recall what Stinger meant and yeah they were long and small in dia.
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Great photo SlideRulz and happy for your great memories. ;)