OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tim754 on February 14, 2011, 10:44:34 pm
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That is the debt of the USA as of today according to the "financial news" reports!!! :o Of course that is great work financial news fellows ,reporting on the horrendous mess and crimes you were and still are a key player in.. :P
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14,144,355,000,000 does not fit on desk top calculator!!! :o
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Yeah well works out that if you spent a million dollars a day since the birth of Christ you still are not there.
What this effectively does is take the biggest economy in the world and then some out of the game for the foreseeable future, so don't count on that recession being over.
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Is that 14 trillion, I heard a rumour that america was gunna give Hawaii to china to clear some debt...
Brett
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that would be 14 trillion I assume :D quite obviously they don't care for the hundreds of thousands or parts there-of anymore :P
China could make a replica of Hawaii for a tenth of the price Brett ;) will have to list it on eBay if they want it sold. eBay seller ID Obama1 :D
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Also heard recently that US owed china 2.Something trillion in bank bills. I dont know if they owe china apart from this.. But even if they give hawaii to china then they would still owe 10t to others. Quite sincerely though Poor USA. Most of europe is in minus, Oz is now also thanks to Rudd and co, Sth America is screwed etc etc So tell me what country has all of the $$$ or is someone fudging the figures. the mind boggles.
Brett
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god bless capitalism and free enterprise, it seems to work a real treat ::)
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Also heard recently that US owed china 2.Something trillion in bank bills. I dont know if they owe china apart from this.. But even if they give hawaii to china then they would still owe 10t to others. Quite sincerely though Poor USA. Most of europe is in minus, Oz is now also thanks to Rudd and co, Sth America is screwed etc etc So tell me what country has all of the $$$ or is someone fudging the figures. the mind boggles.
Brett
Got to be those oil rich countries with all the money, Abu Dhabi & Bahrain. They have the best buildings, and car race tracks. Wonder what they pay for fuel?? Their barrel price, might equal our Litre price at the pump. ???
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About 75% of the debt would be the defence budget
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About 75% of the debt would be the defence budget
Are they that scared !! :o
So really all this debt means, is we can go on a VMX wild spending spree on Marks Swapmeet and ebay for another 50 odd year -- love it :P ;D
cheers A
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So tell me what country has all of the $$$ or is someone fudging the figures. the mind boggles.
Brett
Actually nobody has it in cash apart from a couple of bankers of my acquaintance, this is the new debt based economic model, where debt became an asset, clever huh.
I was talking to my Goldman friends, consensus is debt restructuring, that the US will finally have to cut a deal with its major creditors for instance China who will accept that now their 2 trillion in US T Bills is only worth enough for dinner, quick and painless and life goes on. All you then have to do is maintain confidence in the dollar so everyone doesn't sell them immediately. No mean trick.
I am not blaming Mr Rudd Australia is not immune and it has its own personal debt house of cards.
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I read somewhere that China holds a heap of US bonds and that they fall due soon.
The Chinese have apparently asked that the payment NOT be in USD. :o
Woops.
What would happen if America gave Hawaii to the Chineese ?
Does America OWN Hawaii ?
What about the Hawaiians, would they be pissed?
[ Yes they would , I know this for a fact ]
What about the rest of the American people would they feel betrayed and would the union collapse in a screaming heap?
What about the Japs who already own half of Hawaii ?
Man o man what a mess. :)
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I read somewhere that China holds a heap of US bonds and that they fall due soon.
The Chinese have apparently asked that the payment NOT be in USD. :o
Woops.
Ah and there you have it, the Chinese can ask what ever they want but they are a new comer to this market economy game and have far less economic power than the US, plus by holding their currency artificially low have contributed to the US being where it is.
The trump card the US holds is that global trade in everything is primarily done in USD, they are not impacted by devaluation the same way the Chinese are. I would say devaluation is a real option if you can survive running at higher interest rates.
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I read somewhere that China holds a heap of US bonds and that they fall due soon.
The Chinese have apparently asked that the payment NOT be in USD. :o
Woops.
The US dollar probably still looks good compared to the Zimbabwian dollar... Maybe they could pay China with Zimbabwian dollars? :D
Honestly, I can only see this ending in WW3.
Brett, I'm loath to make this another thread about politics, but do you not see the hole in your statement? "The whole world's economy is screwed, but it was Rudd's fault"... Particularly seeing as we fared the best of every country...
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At least the Yanks are open and transparent about the issue. You'll find the Europeans are not far behind. They have a similar problem but it not as obvious because the total is divided up between many - and not published on the web as a dramatic clock.
And we shouldn't be too comfortable. Our Fed Govt is good but don't ask too many questions of your state and local council - there is at least 4 Sydney councils bordering on bankruptcy. And I don't think the NSW govt is far behind. The elections will be interesting. Anyone want to bet that a whole lot more will be revealed after the elections.
The whole credit based consumer economy is flawed, whether it is individual or national. It's called 'living beyond your means'. It is not the entire economy being unproductive but there is a significant portion of forth and bubble. Those parts of the economy that concentrate wealth rather than create wealth - real estate, stock market but two, but a very significant two.
And that's the problem, neither the yanks nor anyone else wants to move away from that economic model. We all want to believe in the 'free lunch', that money 'grows on tree', that we can retire on our property wealth because we are lucky enough to have the family home go from $40,000 to $400,000 in 20 years - we 'made money'. Yeah! really?
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Speaking of Zimbabwian dollars does anyone know where I can get a wheelbarrow full of Z$100000000000000000 notes ?
Want to wallpaper the games room and thought something different might be nice. :)
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How is it that it seems like every country is in debt to every other country?
Why can’t everybody just wipe the debt from each other?
And if Aust. & the US are in debt to the likes of China & Asia then why do we give them aid ?
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How is it that it seems like every country is in debt to every other country?
Why can’t everybody just wipe the debt from each other?
Countries and business trade or wipe debt everyday, thats the bond market, then they trade that debt to third parties, what they are buying is the debtors ability to pay.
What is happening in the EU is they have no exchange rate adjustment between countries so the rich countries like Germany are buying the debt of the poor knowing they will lose their investment ... effectively giving the money away. General debt cancelation would require Australia to have the political will to purchase the surplus debt of its impoverished trading partners like NZ knowing they can not expect repayment.
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I know its a bit simplistic but if you owed me $20.00 and I owed Tim $20.00 and he owed you $20.00 then it would all cancel each other out.
It sometimes seems like some countries are in a similar position
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I know its a bit simplistic but if you owed me $20.00 and I owed Tim $20.00 and he owed you $20.00 then it would all cancel each other out.
It sometimes seems like some countries are in a similar position
I have know that GMC and Tim were at the centre of the problem. ;D
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I know its a bit simplistic but if you owed me $20.00 and I owed Tim $20.00 and he owed you $20.00 then it would all cancel each other out.
It sometimes seems like some countries are in a similar position
I have know that GMC and Tim were at the centre of the problem. ;D
Yes, we are the centre of the Victorian economy and wer'e bring the rest of the world down with us ;D
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Yes, we are the centre of the Victorian economy and wer'e bring the rest of the world down with us ;D
Gotta love a 'man with a plan'!
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capitalism in its purest form enables wealth to be redistributed from the majority to the already wealthy minority.The best example of this is that the debt is owned by the US government ie the US taxpayer who is continuing to prop up the big end of town with more borrowing.Left to market forces the US economy would have collapsed with massive social and economic upheaval and a hugely devalued currency.Those players still in the market would be able to compete globally against the Chinese because their products would again be price competative.The Chinese economy is so strong because it is based on production and manipulation of its own currency.Other western economies are now based on consumption and have to continue to borrow to sustain growth.Its all gotta end somewhere and in tears.Get this,Wal Mart one of the big US companies gets most of its products from China using the reverse auction,price per unit method.These products were formally made in the USA by workers who are primarily Wal Mart customers,who are now out of work and can no longer afford to buy at Wal Mart.Talk about capitalism eating itself.
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"Yes, we are the centre of the Victorian economy and wer'e bring the rest of the world down with us !!"
Shite we are all surely f#cked now............................ :D
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I believe that most of USA debt is to China.
Guess who is buying up big in real estate in OZ? and any other assets they can get their hands on? CHINA, and big business in OZ in their usual short time gain thinking is making a quick dollar selling the place out from under us.
China knows the best way to grow their empire is to keep their currency value so low by artificial means that they drive all competition out of contention.
It's time for our pollies to wake up and start playing the same sort of games that other countries [think France China USA etc] have been doing to us for years with trickery in trade deals [while pretending to remove trade barriers] and restrict foreign ownership of critical assets [which includes land and housing].
Add to that, the $US in my opinion has been based on bullshit for years and no longer should be the standard currency for international trade.
cheers pancho.
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I know its a bit simplistic but if you owed me $20.00 and I owed Tim $20.00 and he owed you $20.00 then it would all cancel each other out.
Not quite, due to Tim being a worse risk of payment than Geoff, then we would need to make the exchange at a risk factor, so at 5% you would need $21 to cancel out Tims debt in proportion to GMC treasury bonds, however the promise of $21 that Tims debt is worth to you can then become an assett that you can borrow against, or better yet loan to Tim. But this places Tim in a worse postion financially, so now he has to come up $22 with the risk factor, but hey you can loan him that as well against Tims future payment. However this discounts the interest and fees that Tim also owes to you which exceeds what you owe him so Tim has to raise further capital to pay you by selling his Rio Tinto shares to Chang Li construction but this reduces his assetts as proportion of debt and makes him a worse risk plus his house price is dropping.... and on it goes
GMC bonds now have a problem Tims risk factor is so high that GMC bonds are trading lower based on Tims risk, so GMC can only raise capital by borrowing at a higher interest rate which also plunges GMC into its own debt cycle to its creditor Chang Li .... hmmm, well then Chang Li offers to GMC to swap some risky debt like Tims so the over all risk to both parties is reduced ..... and on it goes
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I know its a bit simplistic but if you owed me $20.00 and I owed Tim $20.00 and he owed you $20.00 then it would all cancel each other out.
Not quite, due to Tim being a worse risk of payment than Geoff, then we would need to make the exchange at a risk factor, so at 5% you would need $21 to cancel out Tims debt in proportion to GMC treasury bonds, however the promise of $21 that Tims debt is worth to you can then become an assett that you can borrow against, or better yet loan to Tim. But this places Tim in a worse postion financially, so now he has to come up $22 with the risk factor, but hey you can loan him that as well against Tims future payment. However this discounts the interest and fees that Tim also owes to you which exceeds what you owe him so Tim has to raise further capital to pay you by selling his Rio Tinto shares to Chang Li construction but this reduces his assetts as proportion of debt and makes him a worse risk plus his house price is dropping.... and on it goes
GMC bonds now have a problem Tims risk factor is so high that GMC bonds are trading lower based on Tims risk, so GMC can only raise capital by borrowing at a higher interest rate which also plunges GMC into its own debt cycle to its creditor Chang Li .... hmmm, well then Chang Li offers to GMC to swap some risky debt like Tims so the over all risk to both parties is reduced ..... and on it goes
:D clever dick ;D
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I am lovin it 8).
I am stripping Maico treasure out of the good old US of A liquidation sale,
as quick as my "Buy Now", "Pay Latter" card can carry it :D.
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I know its a bit simplistic but if you owed me $20.00 and I owed Tim $20.00 and he owed you $20.00 then it would all cancel each other out.
Not quite, due to Tim being a worse risk of payment than Geoff, then we would need to make the exchange at a risk factor, so at 5% you would need $21 to cancel out Tims debt in proportion to GMC treasury bonds, however the promise of $21 that Tims debt is worth to you can then become an assett that you can borrow against, or better yet loan to Tim. But this places Tim in a worse postion financially, so now he has to come up $22 with the risk factor, but hey you can loan him that as well against Tims future payment. However this discounts the interest and fees that Tim also owes to you which exceeds what you owe him so Tim has to raise further capital to pay you by selling his Rio Tinto shares to Chang Li construction but this reduces his assetts as proportion of debt and makes him a worse risk plus his house price is dropping.... and on it goes
GMC bonds now have a problem Tims risk factor is so high that GMC bonds are trading lower based on Tims risk, so GMC can only raise capital by borrowing at a higher interest rate which also plunges GMC into its own debt cycle to its creditor Chang Li .... hmmm, well then Chang Li offers to GMC to swap some risky debt like Tims so the over all risk to both parties is reduced ..... and on it goes
Shit Tim will you just give Geoff or GMC or whoever the $20 . :)
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Financial Crisis explained in simple language
Linda is the proprietor of a bar in Cork. In order to increase sales, she decides to allow her loyal customers - most of whom are unemployed alcoholics - to drink now but pay later. She keeps track of the drinks consumed on a ledger (thereby granting the customers loans). Word gets around and as a result increasing numbers of customers flood into Linda's bar. Taking advantage of her customers' freedom from immediate payment constraints, Linda increases her prices for wine and beer, the most-consumed beverages. Her sales volume increases massively. A young and dynamic customer service consultant at the local bank recognizes these customer debts as valuable future assets and increases Linda's borrowing limit. He sees no reason for undue concern since he has the debts of the alcoholics as collateral. At the bank's corporate headquarters, expert bankers transform these customer assets into DRINKBONDS, ALKBONDS and PUKEBONDS. These securities are then traded on markets worldwide.
No one really understands what these abbreviations mean and how the securities are guaranteed. Nevertheless, as their prices continuously climb, the securities become top-selling items.
One day, although the prices are still climbing, a risk manager (subsequently of course fired due to his negativity) of the bank decides that slowly the time has come to demand payment of the debts incurred by the drinkers at Linda's bar. However they cannot pay back the debts. Linda can not fulfil her loan obligations and claims bankruptcy. DRINKBOND and ALKBOND drop in price by 95 %. PUKEBOND performs better, stabilizing in price after dropping by 80 %. The suppliers of Linda's bar, having granted her generous payment due dates and having invested in the securities are faced with a new situation. Her wine supplier claims bankruptcy, her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor.
The bank is saved by the Government following dramatic round-the-clock consultations by leaders from the governing political parties (and vested interests). The funds required for this purpose are obtained by a tax levied on the non-drinkers.
Finally an explanation I understand...
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I would like to introduce myself.I am the manager Alarma Bestro from the Bank of Nigeria and if you place the money into the below account I can make your money to $14,144,355,000,000 in Twenty working days.
Bank Of Nigeria 4445900
Account 902347
Thank you for your monies ;D
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I would like to introduce myself.I am the manager Alarma Bestro from the Bank of Nigeria and if you place the money into the below account I can make your money to $14,144,355,000,000 in Twenty working days.
Bank Of Nigeria 4445900
Account 902347
Thank you for your monies ;D
Hi Alarma how have you been since our last corrospondance?
I,me sorry the cheque bounced but I will make it up to you. ;D
I am looking forward to many more emails now that you have my email address again. :)
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I know its a bit simplistic but if you owed me $20.00 and I owed Tim $20.00 and he owed you $20.00 then it would all cancel each other out.
Not quite, due to Tim being a worse risk of payment than Geoff, then we would need to make the exchange at a risk factor, so at 5% you would need $21 to cancel out Tims debt in proportion to GMC treasury bonds, however the promise of $21 that Tims debt is worth to you can then become an assett that you can borrow against, or better yet loan to Tim. But this places Tim in a worse postion financially, so now he has to come up $22 with the risk factor, but hey you can loan him that as well against Tims future payment. However this discounts the interest and fees that Tim also owes to you which exceeds what you owe him so Tim has to raise further capital to pay you by selling his Rio Tinto shares to Chang Li construction but this reduces his assetts as proportion of debt and makes him a worse risk plus his house price is dropping.... and on it goes
GMC bonds now have a problem Tims risk factor is so high that GMC bonds are trading lower based on Tims risk, so GMC can only raise capital by borrowing at a higher interest rate which also plunges GMC into its own debt cycle to its creditor Chang Li .... hmmm, well then Chang Li offers to GMC to swap some risky debt like Tims so the over all risk to both parties is reduced ..... and on it goes
Having seen Tim on a sidecar I can now visualize how much risk he actually is.
I will make a note of this on the shed wall in case Tim tries to squeeze me for more credit.
I will also note that despite Tim and I going down the gurgler you seem to be sitting pretty despite the debt you owe.
;D :D
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'Shit Tim will you just give Geoff or GMC or whoever the $20' . NO! :D Ok that is a bit rough so here $20 in good old Zimbabwe cash ;)
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Shit Tim will you just give Geoff or GMC or whoever the $20 . NO! :D Ok that is a bit rough so here $20 in good old Zimbabwe cash ;)
CONGRADULATIONS....A very wise investment Tim754...pulling us out of dept assessment and by utilizing the extra funds raised in this venture,being for a future payment towards an event investment and spent at a balanced rate, with the risk factor at a low 2.4% with nil fee's attached for HBBB Easter ;) ;D
yours truely
Alarma from Nigeria via Zimbabwe :-*
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It's only a number and life will go on regardless of how many zeros there are.
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So the yanks owe 14trilion. If evrey working aussie and a couple of kiwis dug deep and donated $1 million each to the yanks- then this would clear thier debt. Thus allowing the yanks to protect us for another ten yaers or so from indonesia from walking in and taking over.
Brett
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I always new that GMC fella was a dodgy bastard.......see, you cant trust the Meh-i-cans... ;D
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Thus allowing the yanks to protect us for another ten yaers or so from indonesia from walking in and taking over.
Brett
Boats are arriving daily anyway
Who would want to come here with fire and flood....... :P
fug its hot and dry today.. :) best of staying away ;)
cheers A
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American financial crisis in simpler terms...The good ol' USA is currently printing it,s currency out of thin air. Just as Germany did prior to WWII. The more they need the more they print. You don,t have to be a financial wiz to work out what is going to happen to their ecomomy in the not to distant future. Recently China, Russia and four other countries got together to decide what was going to be the next global trading currency,The USA was not invited to to the party. Banks in the USA are fore closing on housing mortgages every day at a terrifying rate and all of the above information is censored over there....Eventually when their economy collapses (and it might be sooner than we think) it will take the rest of the world economy with it. One day we might go to the bank and find that because the world ecomomy has collapsed the bank no longer has any money to hand out to people because every one has withdrawn every cent they have (the lucky one,s...) But we the people will still have to keep paying our mortgages to those same banks who no longer have our money , because those same banks have sold our loans to 2nd and 3rd parties. A bit far fetched you might think....hmmmmm....Sounds like a far fetched Conspiracy perhaps ..hmmmmm. Paper money will become worthless and the only items that will retain value are precious metals, Gold ,Silver, Platinum,etc...
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Hmmm you know i reckon it would be cheaper to bring it in as parts split up. Ive seen what it costs to bring a frame in and i know what it costs to bring in forks drained of their oil and motors split up in a few boxes etc etc. I really reckon it is very possible to do it cheaper than the bike in one lump.
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Sold some gold nuggets last week ,,if only I'd known back in the day that they needed a letter of authentisity I might be a few dollars better off :-\
cheers A
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Sold some gold nuggets last week ,,if only I'd known back in the day that they needed a letter of authentisity I might be a few dollars better off :-\
cheers A
Can,t you just run the oxy over them then chuck in a handfull of dirt and say you found em? :)
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While we are talking about large figures.
Did you watch the SBS news tonight ???
One billion people on our world will go to bed hungry tonight ???
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Yes mick, i have trouble coming to terms with the thought of one child going to bed hungry and yet there are a billion of the poor buggers without food... let alone medical...
We all should feel blessed!
Brett