OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: mx250 on January 27, 2008, 09:48:33 pm
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......are soon parted ;D
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/mx250a/012108middle.jpg) :o :D ;D
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/21january08_hd2008xbones.htm
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From the official HD press release:
..As each Harley-Davidson Softail motorcycle declares its styling independence with exclusive components and inspired craftsmanship, the Cross Bones is a bold addition to an already free-spirited family. Many features of the Cross Bones and other Softails are reminiscent of restless riders of the past, whose defiant attitude resonates with those who march to their own beat in any generation...
:D
Those handlebars look too far forward or something in that image. It doesn't look as bad in some of the other pics.
Tex
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the blokes only 4ft 6 thats why the pics out of whack. Most hadly ridders are shortarses.
and the seat position is just wrong and high, reminds me of those excersie bikes thats go up and down .
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Here in the US we call them "Visa V-Twins". IMHO a truly crude piece of engineering by 1940s standards, but anytime you mention motorcycles, someone mentions Hardly Ableson....like you say you actually race, and some hillbilly tells you how they go to NASCRAP races to get drunk. YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!
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I don't understand this thread, why bag the bloke because he has different tastes to you? He looks pretty happy in the photo, so I say good on him. Am I missing something? If we all had the same tastes it would be a boring old world.
K
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I like it! 8)
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Me to. I'd own the Harley anytime. The bars would go in the shit bin though. I "hated" Harleys for years and just didn't get what people saw in them. Then, within a period of a few weeks I rode a neighbours restored hand change 1940 WLA, Marsh Runyons amazing Harley 1000 vintage MXer and a friends then new Fatboy cruiser. I still can't put into words what makes Harleys so desirable but whatever it is, you understand once you've had a decent ride on one. I get it now.
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nothin wrong with that pic up there...so what if hes a short arse and that harleys got silly lookin hangers..who cares.. ???
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I don't understand this thread, why bag the bloke because he has different tastes to you?
Just having a bit of a laugh myself. I have relatives who ride Harleys; we're always giving each other good-natured grief about each other's bikes. I'm a lot more open minded than them, believe me!
I completely agree that it'd be boring if we all rode the same thing.
You gotta admit, that press release is a bit cheesy though!
Tex
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nothin wrong with that pic up there...so what if hes a short arse and that harleys got silly lookin hangers..who cares.. ???
The Fashion Police are getting a bench warrant for his arrest as we speak... ;D
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i must have missed somthing here..what is it, too much bling or not enough.... ;D
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no, it's not about bling and i'm surprised everyone else has missed it,
but,
there's a bolt missing, look under his left foot, it's all about quality of workmanship...
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Well... I did think.....that maybe he had a little too much pre-load in the rear. The bolt however, escaped me.....
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no, it's not about bling and i'm surprised everyone else has missed it,
but,
there's a bolt missing, look under his left foot, it's all about quality of workmanship...
Standard on Harley frames for sidestand, been relocated as not to interfere with running boards, after all, you wouldnt cut it off with an angle grinder would you::)
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Is that better ?
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Nup, the Classy Indians are the go.
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love those old board track racers, 4 valve heads in early 1900's (around 1908- 1920) 100MPH rockets.
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Indians are classy machines
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While HD deserves credit for recognising trends and capitalising on them, it all just seems a bit too... I dunno ... contrived to me.
That bike is like a PT Cruiser or a new Beetle, to my mind. I mean, of all the things that make real hots rods or old dak-daks cool*, the outside appearance is low on the list: But they're designed to appeal to the unwashed public who doesn't know or care: Style over substance (even if they're clearly better than the original); "experience lite", etc.
Truly iconic stuff like the original Beetle, the DT1, the FJ, the Austin 7, the original Mini, etc got that way because they were exceptionally good at doing their unpretentious job.
If half the effort was put into developing a vehicle that did something particularly well at a low cost, that's been put into dragging the last shred of value (and consequently, soul) from the past, then we'd all be driving $12k hybrid or hydrogen cars by now, rather than ostentatious abominations like the Chrysler 300C...
[/rant]
*I have no love for old Dak-daks.
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Hey, Firko no knock against all Harleys at all. Hell, I would love any KR or XR 750, XR 1000, or 78 MX250 to name a few. As for the style and all, yes it is bought and sold.
Nathan, well said ! Do Auto designers and the like just realize the 1960s was the pinnacle of design? Well, it was and the most beautiful cars for the most parts come from 55-75 or so. Enough of the retro, gimme something that will run on piss, and get great economy. My 2003 v-8 powered Ford F-150 pickup gets far better economy than my 92 v-6 powered Nissan Pathfinder-the technology is here.
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iv had half dozen harleys over the years the first one i got was in 1974 just got my learners permit in vic toria i was just on 18 and i bought a new new 74 sporter it was the first bike i had on the road in those day there was no limit on capacity for learners it was good times .i dont think my parents or the neibours apprresiated the drag pipes though at 4am had numerous harley since then /but since ive had kids i decided that there are tooooo many fork wits on the roads and im not putting my life at risk modern drivers dont give a flying fork about bike riders just yesterday a old guy got flatened on the free way buy a tipper with a dog trailer what a way to go some forkhead in a hurry to make 20 bucks a hour no thanks
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While I agree with Nathan that Harley has taken the retro thing way past the point of it being interesting any more, why should they change when the bikes are selling like half price schooners because they are not like the cookie cutter Japanese products. I guess it's valid to compare Harleys to PT Cruisers, VW Beetles and Mini Coopers (you missed that one Nathan) but why shouldn't folks be allowed to access "experience lite"? Anybody who's ever driven a real Hot Rod or a classic VW will quickly realise their deficiencies. What these cars (and bikes, let's not forget the retro Triumphs here) do is to offer a cool alternative to the Camry blandness of many of today's vehicles.
It would be nice to see $12k Hydrogen powered people movers that get 100mpg but that won't come while the oil companies and US industry rule our little planet. Get used to progress in this field coming in dribs and drabs. Like in James' situation, my 4.7l V8 Jeep Cherokee gets much better economy than Jonseys 5 year old Holden Rodeo 3 litre V6 work ute.
The "ostentatious abomination" Chrysler 300c is a good example of that technology with its ability to be cut back to 4 cylinders on the highway to reduce petrol consuption and emission. The 300C is a beautiful car with many advanced features that should be picked up by other manufacturers. Would you be as contemptuous of the 300C Nathan if it had Volvo badges on it and had been developed in Europe? Methinks you're showing a little taste bias but isn't that where we came in?
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While I agree with Nathan that Harley has taken the retro thing way past the point of it being interesting any more, why should they change when the bikes are selling like half price schooners because they are not like the cookie cutter Japanese products. I guess it's valid to compare Harleys to PT Cruisers, VW Beetles and Mini Coopers (you missed that one Nathan) but why shouldn't folks be allowed to access "experience lite"? Anybody who's ever driven a real Hot Rod or a classic VW will quickly realise their deficiencies. What these cars (and bikes, let's not forget the retro Triumphs here) do is to offer a cool alternative to the Camry blandness of many of today's vehicles.
Of course they're allowed to access 'experience lite', and manufacturers would be mad to ignore the market... But both the consumers and the manufacturers also need to be aware that they're selling the real image down the river.
So I argue whether the 'coolness' of the retro specials really exists, beyond the initial flash of emotion in the showroom: The early Beetle sold up a storm for a multitude of reasons, of which its shape was very low down the list. The new Beetle was a flop, because it mirrored only the least of the oriinal's acheivements.
At the other end of the retro spectrum, stuff like the Triumph Scrambler and Ducati 900 don't offend me because (broadly speaking) they have the same strong and weak points as the originals, and are more than mere styling exercises.
(What did I miss WRT the original Mini!? Even without the Cooper version, the original Mini is an iconic car).
The "ostentatious abomination" Chrysler 300c is a good example of that technology with its ability to be cut back to 4 cylinders on the highway to reduce petrol consuption and emission. The 300C is a beautiful car with many advanced features that should be picked up by other manufacturers. Would you be as contemptuous of the 300C Nathan if it had Volvo badges on it and had been developed in Europe? Methinks you're showing a little taste bias but isn't that where we came in?
I think you mis-understand my biases (they're there alright, but they're not where you seem to think they lie).
Don't get me started on Volvo either... Where's the 2008 version of the old Volvo formula: simple, safe, unpretentious, and sporty? OK, with modern safety and emissions requirements, simple will probably never be seen again, but why is nobody even trying to develop cheap cars that are anything other than cookie-cutter specials?
Original Beetles, Minis, etc, were not churned out from the generic mold.
Why is the world so obsessed with re-capturing the not entirely realisitc good points of the 60s and 70s through style alone?
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I think that the whole retro movement is a reflection of society as a whole. Design, music, fashion, you name it keeps repeating itself to new generations of consumers. The person who buys a Harley or a PT Cruiser today gives little thought to those vehicles 1930s inspirations. They've bought the vehicle because they like it, simple as that. It's the same with music (which you and I have debated before Nathan ;D). Wolfmother=Black Sabbath, John Butler Trio= Paul Butterfield Blues Band and so on, you get my drift.
Todays kids think it's new and interesting and that's fine because they didn't experience the music or the vehicle the first time around. My 19 year old god daughter never drove a WW2 Willys Jeep but she loves her 2004 Jeep Wrangler. I had to show her photos of Jeeps in action on old reruns of MASH for her to realise the styling heritage of her car.
I guess the point I'm making is that many people who buy retro vehicles aren't trying to replicate another era. If they were, you'd see more baby boomers driving BMW Minis and VWs or driving PT Cruisers than the Gen Xers who have been the main buyers.
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Sorry big K but its fugly, and its a press foto, so its fair to say he is made to look happy, however on seeing the photo he'd be spewing.
The only good harley are customs in my opinion. id love a big raked out chopper. I got a 1100Yamah harely ATm with the pipes and the "chips lights' AKA fat boy style, but if i had the coin id flick it for a custom.
A lot of smart people have been able to take a boring old peice of 1960's tech and make it into something special.
You ever seen the bikes with no hubs ? freekin insane, some of these custom guys spend years just thinking about the technical challenge of makin the bike more minimal. My hat goes off to these fellas. Check out the rimless one here, build by overcoming some very obvious challenges.
http://www.howardshubless.com/
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If you read Sonny Bargars* (spelling - sorry Sonny!) book which is a fantastic read on the history of the Hell Angles, even he says that the only reason why they rode Harleys in the 50's was that they were cheap. That they customized them is the thing that made Harley as I doubt they would have survived if they hadn't. (Harley picked up on the style and did some great marketing.) The really interesting thing is that he says that if they were not so cheap they would be riding Hondas!
For me - my opinion only, the guy on the bike is grinning just the same as the rest of us on a ride; that he happens to ride a 2 wheeled compressor makes no difference 'cos thats his thing same as others look at us on our old shitters and have a laugh at our expense - no difference!
Tanner
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NAh that one is still so wrong in so many ways.
still looks like an excercise bike.
the sales numbers, will show how popular it becomes.
### on another note i under stand and can see the how the brakes work but what holds the wheel on the hubless one . got me bloody confused :-\
" It relies on friction drive technology. “There are fifteen wheels that run the Hubless,” says Mike. “There are nine sets of circles in the rear, five in the front, and one under the seat that makes it go, just like a friction drive in a carnival Ferris wheel.” (source)
The wheels actually stay stationary as the tire rotates around it. That's what makes it truly hubless. While Billy's bike appears hubless the wheels actually turn as the tire does. In fact it's a false hub. Hence the need for a front hub. "
i really need to see this to understand i think, didnt kawasaki trial a hubless set up on a prototype super cross bike in the late 80s ? HTF did that work. does it just sit in a wheel carrage and roll between set of little wheels ? at 4 hours to change a tyre you'd want to be trailering it every where.
and checkl out this one has fronts too --> http://www.omax.com/amen_motorcycles_case_study.php
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1 4 Firko,the resurrection of pigboy crabsure 8), cheers :P
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RE: The Ressurection of Pigboy Crabshaw by The Paul Butterfield Blues Band.
Jeez Mick, you and I would be the only two people left who remember that album. I've still got a mint 1967 vinyl copy.
oops...we've swayed way off the thread. Sorry about that.
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So if all the bike manufactures decided to build retro air cooled twin shock motocrossers I guess most of you guy's wouldn't be interested.
As for Harley Davidson they don't really build retro bikes. If you know their history they've just kept to the same format throughout the last 60 odd years. Currently they're in fashion because of it.
I've used Harley's for commuting for the last 30 years and they've done a pretty good job of it. And yes at times I'm embarrassed to say I ride one because of all the connotations that go with it.
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crash n bern, I've been reading up on the Harleys and you're dead right about them keeping to a format.
When they were losing ground/sales and tried to go head to head with the Jap market (CB 750's, Kwaka 9's) they took a real floggin'.
Sales were down to the point of the factory nearly going under.
It's when they woke up to recognise they should build what they know best.
I must confess to disliking Harleys all my life; but then I rode one...
And another and another.
If they weren't so damn pricey I'd buy one in a shot.
I lean towards the Custom Deluxe and the Fatboys.
I think the Deluxe needs to stay true to the era but the FatBoy can have as much or as little bling and mods as you can afford.
My mate Sleazy has a theory about tattoos - and I think it applies to Harleys as well.
People who have tattoos don't care if you don't have one, but the opinions flow thick and fast from those without.