OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Tech Talk => Topic started by: noisy toy on December 10, 2010, 07:46:35 pm

Title: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 10, 2010, 07:46:35 pm
Hi all,
I have just picked up a neat old ts400 with a crook big end, otherwise very original. It has no compliance plate, just a vin TS4003-10260, eng no TS4003-10272 which is original to frame. Can anyone help id what year and model, and where can i download a repair manual and parts manual? I think it is 1972,silver.
Cheers, Shane :)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: oldfart on December 10, 2010, 08:10:45 pm
Shane try this .
http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/suzi/engine-nos/engnos.htm
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Lozza on December 10, 2010, 08:36:26 pm
Have you laid your TS400 demons to rest Stew?  ;DYour box of bits is ready to send.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 10, 2010, 09:36:37 pm
(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFyGNCL4i5o7iuQEqoExjS0ZmMcDf8lpcwf1xlnYJimQGhIL_WRo8hlB5E_TUuHAM3c95f490_Gz9mr0-HQkwzA/TS400%20pilots%20Lawrence%20aka%20Big%20Loz%20standing%20and%20Stewart%20Oldfart.jpg?psid=1)
talking TS400's :-\ then ya better talk to the Institute ;)






Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 10, 2010, 09:45:09 pm
Shane, as luck would have it I'm pretty sure it's a '72 K model  The R and K model TS's are my favs..later chrome guard models sucked in the styling department ;)

(http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/Topcon/Suzuki/TS400komusan.jpg)
 
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Doggy Digger on December 10, 2010, 10:01:26 pm
I see a camel toe
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Curly3 on December 10, 2010, 10:04:59 pm
That's the ugliest Camel Toe I've seen.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Nathan S on December 10, 2010, 10:37:13 pm
I see a camel toe

Post of the year. Easily.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Lozza on December 10, 2010, 11:33:12 pm
Bastards ;D
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 11, 2010, 10:44:55 am
Hey thanks for all the replies. I looked at the serial numbers, thanks oldfart. Looks like a 72, but the exhaust is a bit different. Mine has a little muffler thingy hanging off the back, unfortunately the main exhaust is missing. I thought about doing it as a TM vmx but i am worried people will tear me a new one because it is so original. I have a spare TM alloy tank too. Maybe i can just remove the road bits and store them for later if i change my mind.
I am still looking for a shop manual and parts manual, any ideas? I had better get in touch with the institute, and going by the response I am guessing Lozza is the one with the camel toe? Funny! I didnt know blokes could do that....... ;D
Cheers, Shane
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: oldfart on December 11, 2010, 01:31:30 pm
Lozza , It was my first national event and managed to meet lots of nice people and put faces to names.
Doc, once again  thanks for the experience and for Lozza it goes to show you don't need balls to ride these things  ;D
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Hoony on December 11, 2010, 01:40:20 pm
I see a camel toe
That's the ugliest Camel Toe I've seen.
Bastards ;D


Ha, piss funny   :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 11, 2010, 05:35:57 pm
Stew, Coff's '07 was my first vintage event as well. The atmosphere that engulfed the Coff's event is like nothing I've experienced anywhere. Donny and CHMCC set a mark that's yet to be topped (not that I get to many events but that's beside the point :P) slight hi-jack sorry Shane.

Here's another of Stew on the TS400, another of Loz on his TS400 and lastly is my TS400. There is absolutely no reason why it couldn't be taken back to stock as nothing on the frame was ever cut nor does it need to be ;) I couldn't find a better size pic but sure to have one...somewhere ::)

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pslPIx1dhTSfPwLxRMjgk0CAYG0yHD0OUfsKImPsxXW6T3lTN5ziF4X7wn2iY8nMkutVq2m1LhCM8LGGIARhneA/Stewart%20on%20Docs%20TS400.jpg?psid=1)

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pvHR6Au29plUdFP4R0ZA3MFAwYXgPQQiZs6KovOg4ojJdCznjyrjY6XBbz0W8W47OoIdig5RJkoy8lro00PQPpQ/Lawrence%20Lozza%20pre75%20TS400L.jpg?psid=1)

(http://mccookracing.com/photos/submits/chrisWrightTS4000406.jpg)



 
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 11, 2010, 11:30:10 pm
I am warming to the idea of a vmx version! The pics are great, looks like a lot of fun.
I checked out the bottom end today, it looks like it may have got a bit of water in it which has caused things to become a bit stiff to kick over, i removed the clutch cover and had a bit of a look. The big end is fine, bore will be ok with a hone but piston is not too flash. The bore measures up not too bad actually, std bore size. The porting is stock and a bit agricultural, i may get out the dremel just to match things up a bit better. Any ideas as to source an exhaust? Mine is missing except the spark arrestor thing at the back. A chamber and stinger would be good, but i have the twin down tube frame. Any thoughts?
Cheers, Shane
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: oldyzman on December 11, 2010, 11:37:27 pm
GMC for the eshaust! By the way the old ts400's go ok on dirttrack at nepean...
Brett
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 12, 2010, 01:50:53 am
Quote
but i have the twin down tube frame
Bingo!

Shane if that's the case then you have a '76 A model.  Only the '76/'77 A and B models had the twin downtube frame ;) Should also have alloy rims stock which is a bonus.

(http://www.suzukicycles.org/photos/TS/TS400-brochures/1976_TS400_USsales1_450.jpg)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 15, 2010, 06:03:48 pm
Ah yes, thanks Doc. That looks like an orange version of mine.(silver) It has the funny looking spark arrestor thingy at the end. I will check out Dean at bits for bikes here in Cairns, he has some old down pipes hanging in the loft that might do the trick.
Thanks Lozza, I spoke to Steve Rothwell today, very interesting bloke. Didnt speak very highly of you though, said something about w anker...... ;D        I will be calling by his place later in the week to say hi, and to talk about you some more.
I will see if the TM tank fits, and try to find a good piston. My bore is good but the piston has some funny marks on the top,maybe it got lean at some point. Yep i think i will go TM. Did they make a 76 TM with twin down tube, or were they RM by then? It may be similar to the RM 370 frame i have.
If my TS  IS a 76 A model should it have a compliance plate?
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 15, 2010, 08:10:25 pm
they never made a '76 TM400 and the TS/TM400 engine won't fit into an RM370 frame as the cases are way way longer, too big for the RM cradle. Even though it is '76 it is still pre'75 eligible as it's classed as a flow on model , though it sports a different frame it's pretty much unchanged from previous years so it's all go as it sits..just refine it is all ;)  alloy rims?
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: TM BILL on December 15, 2010, 08:36:03 pm
they never made a '76 TM400 and the TS/TM400 engine won't fit into an RM370 frame as the cases are way way longer, too big for the RM cradle. Even though it is '76 it is still pre'75 eligible as it's classed as a flow on model , though it sports a different frame it's pretty much unchanged from previous years so it's all go as it sits..just refine it is all ;)  alloy rims?

Doc are you sure 76 model ts is pre 75 legal  ??? I thought the book says TS models cut off at L model ? or is that just the smaller models through to 250cc  ???
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: oldfart on December 15, 2010, 08:53:23 pm
18.7.5.1   acceptable for pre -75 class are machines built up to and including the 74 model . The only exception to GCR
is where the model remains unaltered after this date.

suzuki    TM 125 , 250 ,400  k,L,R
            TS 185 , TS 250 , TS 125  TS 100   J,K,L and R models 
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: firko on December 15, 2010, 10:05:59 pm
'75 Suzuki TM or 75/76 TS isn't legal for pre '75 although I think most scrutineers might turn a blind eye as long as the TM rear suspension is restricted. I doubt the twin downtube frame would pass muster at a title meet though.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 15, 2010, 10:11:03 pm
Hey OLDFART, sorry but i have my dumb head on tonight. Does that mean it IS eligible for pre-75 or no?
It does have a double downtube frame, but i still cant find any written info that confirms the month/year of my bike. I will go to Wayne Leonards tomorrow and see if they can print something going by the frame number. When did they come with the vin plate ?
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 15, 2010, 10:14:04 pm
When I checked 6-ish years ago (when I built mine) I asked the same question cause I never realized there was a centre port TS400. The answer that came back then from the powers that be was..yes it is legal. When the '07 nats were on and Stew (for some insane unknown possibly ungodly reason :P) chose to ride the TS400 again I pondered and asked and again it was deemed legal. I don't wish to cause any more of this legality shit but eh, an email is all it takes. I'm over it ;)  
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 15, 2010, 10:23:37 pm
Thanks Doc. Who would i email to ask the question? I may not get to many big meets with it anyway, Cairns is a long way from most races but the Townsville club is gaining momentum so you never know. The Whitsunday classic might be the go if it is ready, does anyone know dates for that?
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: firko on December 15, 2010, 10:27:51 pm
If that's the case Doc, so be it but if you go by the bible it's not kosher......personally, I don't give a shit. The more the merrier.
noisy toy....PM ' Kawasaki211' via this forum. He's the MA head rule honcho and a Suzuki expert so he should give you the good oil.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 15, 2010, 10:38:25 pm
Thanks firko, i will get on to him tomorrow. But i would rather go by the proper rules anyway, i would rather not cause any waves and rules is rules for a reason! Still be fun but, I am not serious about titles or anything, just wanna go for a blast. I might finish the PE250C for vinduro first, its a bit closer. Its a 78 so would that be eligible for pre 80 or something?  ???
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: VMX247 on December 15, 2010, 11:23:31 pm
Townsville club is gaining momentum so you never know. The Whitsunday classic might be the go if it is ready, does anyone know dates for that?

http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=10196.30
Keep us informed with the Townsville Club (vmx) !
cheers A
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 16, 2010, 07:29:31 am
Mark, as I stated I really am over all this illegality/legality bullshit surrounding old bikes, I build my bikes to suit my ideals and really don't care for the racing side of things ;) I'm not being smart and no offence but when I asked back in '06  both you and Dave Tanner said it was fine and dandy ::) Double checked again for the Nats for Stew, noooo problems we were told so we entered it :-\ I keep every email of importance and I have all from this era but these were Pm's from the old ozvmx site which are now gone except for the message notifications. I emailed and asked because at the time I thought I'd wasted my money on a heap of shit that I couldn't ride and couldn't afford to waste money on. Never had 1 person mention the legality issue before but regardless if it's not legal then it's not..it doesn't really matter to me ;)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 16, 2010, 08:19:13 am
Can you still run the bike in a race if it is not technically legal for the class? I too am not worried about points or trophies n stuff, just go for a fang! :)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 16, 2010, 01:21:15 pm
So long as the powers that be say it is okay on the day then yes you can it flog it around Shane. I'm not going to argue the point at a titles level but it would look pretty out of place lined up against RM370's and Pursangs and such thrown in with the pre'78 but eh, that's just my veiw.

Not wanting to give wrong info but I was definately told it was a 'flow on' otherwise I'd never have built it how I did. Infact, I probably wouldn't have built it at all because pre'75 was the objective and I'd unwittingly bought a '76 ;) as a matter of interest the frames whilst a twin downtube design do still have the same geometry and suspension travel/setup as the early models. This frame and the matching centre port cylinder and pipe are the only difference.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: firko on December 16, 2010, 01:50:06 pm
Doc...I recall that exchange and still have no problem with your bike....never did really ;). The situation here is a bit different I believe, the twin downtube centre port thing makes it a very different bike to a '74 model, even if the changes make SFA difference to the performance and handling . Like I said,  we need as many pre '75's out there as possible so it's probably time to open up the pre '75 flow on eligibility requirements  a little but...as it stands right now it's pre '75 racing and the bottom line for the flow on legality of a bike is that it be as close as buggery to the legitimate pre 75 version. Like you, I wasn't aware of the twin downtube/centre port TS400 (essentially because it's outside my main area of interest) so I'd be interested in DT's opinion as well. There are always those who believe it should be pre 75 only with no flow ons and there are others who believe the flow on list should be enlarged to absorb bikes that are pre '75 in concept but suffer from being born too late.
There are a lot of anomolies and dubious listings in the rulebook that really need to be addressed . Perhaps it's time for MA to form a committee to oversee upgrades in the eligibility requirements and to rewrite badly worded sections that are confusing and can be taken a number of ways. This Suzuki situation is only one of a growing number of examples.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Freakshow on December 16, 2010, 02:18:18 pm
Not like he cant ride it is it ?
Doc just has to ride it pre 78, simple really.  and easy as if he just wants a ride.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: oldfart on December 16, 2010, 05:01:23 pm
Shane.... it's not real clear ole mate .
There is no mention of a TS 400       Just    Tm 125 - 250 -400    k =  1973   L = 1974    R =  ????
                                                            TS 185 - 125  100 -250   J= 1972 - K - L - R

 As with Doc's post , he was given the green light back 2007 and I  rode his 76 TS 400  model in pre 75 races as it was classed as a flow on model.
We must remember this discussion is about Ts 400 and not Tm 250 . As the Tm 250 1975  is not classified as a flow on model  ::)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: TM BILL on December 16, 2010, 06:43:11 pm
Semi thread hijack  ::)

So is my 76 TS 185 a flow on  ;D you know the factory bike  ;)

Doc im still running your TS tank on it  ;D i borrowed it for CD 7  :-[ PM if you want to sell it or if you need it Bill  :)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 16, 2010, 07:46:14 pm
Freaky I don't even want to ride it! :D I wanted one because Roger was my hero and I felt I needed something that looked like his bike, albeit from a distance of about 15 miles! It was more a budget project for the purpose of showing it could be done well under a grand ;) I built it but after the maiden voyage I decided it was definately not my sort of thing ::) (the fact that it weighs 3 times more than me makes it a bit of a handful..and that's just wheeling it around in the garage!) I have no probs at all if it isn't legal it's just I was always under the impression it was otherwise hence I commented.

Bill :D the '76 185, kind of like a '71 TS125 with a '76 engine..I know nothing! ;D actually wouldn't mind getting that tank back sometime as it was one of my better ones :P I have a 125 tank you could have but a ding on 1 side doesn't make it the most attractive :-\
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: TM BILL on December 16, 2010, 08:05:51 pm
Doc no worries , its on the bike at Tateys ill get him to drop it off  :) Doc your 400 is super cool , it is much more a pre 75 bike than a pre 78  ::) What you acheived with that bike on a budget is a testament to the spirit of what were about  :)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Lozza on December 16, 2010, 10:30:11 pm
Thanks Lozza, I spoke to Steve Rothwell today, very interesting bloke. Didnt speak very highly of you though, said something about w anker...... ;D        I will be calling by his place later in the week to say hi, and to talk about you some more.

You obviously didn't kick him in the shins like I asked. Geez be a short conversation though..................................
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: pokey on December 17, 2010, 01:26:15 am
Ahh  yes, who could forget the dance of the mighty TS with stew on board.. well mostly  ;D

The Nats and Doc was doing rather bloody well. Some towtruck driver from UNZUD was also circulating in the pack and not too bad. That young bloke from coffs has a way with bikes and he made his beautiful TM metisse owning mentor proud. The institute, also on a mighty TS, made a good show before a minor hiccup with a few head studs and kindly donated his lethal brew of eleven secret herbs and spices , special sauce and a sesame seed bun  to the mighty TS. the rest was the best laugh of the weekend, cept for stew. Was only a few ribs mate and good to see it made you stronger.

As to legality of a TS400 in pre 75 well.. its big, its fookin heavy. Handles like a fat walrus going through a sex change and has just got the steroids.

Competative you ask? Naa not really but it can hold its own if your game enough to crank it open and hold it (waves to stew) .
 I dont think the puritans of the sport have anything to be at all concerned with as to a TS400 being a podium contender and causing havoc with the purpose built MX bikes.
 Id let it through scrutineering even if it was a monoshock . Too fat, too flexy and too heavy... but dont they have shite loads of power when open (waves to stew again)


Its not like anything we do in VMX is going to effect sales of current brand name products
Ride your bike mate and race it if you want, thats what its all about.


And Bill i still wouldnt mind the 185.. Good home gauranteed to get flogged the shyte out of ;D
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: 211kawasaki on December 17, 2010, 08:41:47 am
your all thinking too much ;)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 17, 2010, 09:48:38 am
I tried to tell them to stop 211! but nooooo..it's bloody terrible!! been though it all before..the medication helps but I still have the mental scaring ::) then again, I probably had that already :) 9 o'clock..I gotta go! Therapy time ;)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Tim754 on December 17, 2010, 01:37:48 pm
 TS400 Real weirdos would love to have one as a road registered bike ;) Cheers Tim754                                    yes I would! :D
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 17, 2010, 03:42:18 pm
OK I just got a frame listing number sheet from the suzuki dealer. It lists frame no TS4003-10260 as a 1974 ts 400L. TS4003-10001 up to TS4003-15955 is 74 L  model,                                                    then from TS4003-15956 up to TS4003-25253 is a 75 ts400M model. Unfortunately the parts fische is missing so he couldnt have a look at the frame downtubes for the different models, or when the twin-downtube one started. Maybe mine is a bodgy one!  :o Crap i hope not. I am not worried about classes and such, just thought everyone might find it interesting. Does anyone have a parts book to see? I looked at Alpha sport but it shows all of them as single tube, even thought part #  were different. May be generic pic. I will try to scan and attach the sheet i got otherwise i can e-mail it to someone who can?
Either way I will ride the old dung barge, as soon as i can find a reasonable std size piston. ???
ps  I have just scanned but dont know how to attach. Can i email it to someone?
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 17, 2010, 06:05:54 pm
On double checking here the numbers do appear to be for the '74 400L but the twin downtube came into place in 1975 with the M :-\ ..I'm at a loss sorry ??? for mine twin downtube denotes '75 and later..single downtube stopped with the '74 L.

But wait, upon looking at these pics the '74 also has the twin downtube. No contest chaps..it appears the '75, '76 and the '77 TS400's are indeed genuine flow-on models and 100% legal ;D I learnt something too!!

(http://m4vn6w.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pQmkFwNEIParXEfiBXhtrYZ0OEI-7gzbppmvY-gry5omtpDXUTQi3Va3j_LPxJV8byOVdjmjUU5pQ3ieenF6TbQaTh4bJiAMt/ts400l.JPG?psid=1)
1974 TS400L

(http://www.fieroaddiction.com/images/misc/100_0873.jpg)
1975 TS400M
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: firko on December 17, 2010, 06:25:21 pm
I wonder what the reasoning was behind what must have been a major re tool for a bike that by 1974 was past its sales golden years and earmarked for replacement within a few years anyway. The TM version was almost history so it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You can bet that the PE and DR were already on the drawing board.  It just goes to show that there's always something new around the corner.  ???
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: JC on December 17, 2010, 08:13:30 pm
And to confirm, I have a copy of Cycle Mag Oct 74 test of TS400L - clearly double downtube frame model
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 17, 2010, 10:44:53 pm
I can email the suzuki frame list to someone who can post it on here for all to have. It is not just for TS , but PE, RM,TM,DR,DRZ and some road bikes too. Went to local wrecker(dean) for a scrounge but still no piston or exhaust pipe. Just about everything else though. Might be a good source if anyone is looking for some old stuff. He doesnt really know exactly what old stuff there is, have to go and have a dig. I think i saw some early Maico and Husky engine bits, but not much really. There is an early Maico 250 engine concreted into Arnos wall at Winton..... :D
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: monaro308 on December 18, 2010, 12:44:49 am
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-NOS-VINTAGE-PISTON-RINGS-TM-TS400-STD-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a618115e1QQitemZ250743952865QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-NOS-PISTON-TM-TS400-1971-77-STD-SIZE-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5196de000bQQitemZ350423482379QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 18, 2010, 07:17:13 am
Suzuki frame number ID '71-'94

http://cid-86267c09a3452a71.office.live.com/self.aspx/Suzuki%20Old%20School%20General%20Technical%20and%20Specifications/Suzuki%20Frame%20Numbers%201971%20-%201994/page1.gif (http://cid-86267c09a3452a71.office.live.com/self.aspx/Suzuki%20Old%20School%20General%20Technical%20and%20Specifications/Suzuki%20Frame%20Numbers%201971%20-%201994/page1.gif)

Firko, I'd love to know the reasoning behind the switch also. I think in 1976 they (suzuki) switched the TS185 and 250 models to the twin downtube type also, the smaller TS125/100 remained unchanged. The 185 and 250 also had an engine redesign incorporating the RM styled case/reed induction. It was major re-tooling for the 400 as you say. Considering the design was virtually the same in all other aspects since '71 this change commanded a top end and exhaust change also (they also changed the carb from '76 on I think). Maybe this is why they ran the 400 up to 1977 in this design, trying to get a maximum return before the model got dropped from the line up. Would make for a good read ;)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: firko on December 18, 2010, 09:25:21 am
Are there any opinions in the press coverage as to whether the centre port cylinder made any significant difference to the bike JC? I'd assume the twin downtube frame was introduced to accommodate the centre exhaust port rather than the opposite.....there must be some sort of engineering reasoning behind the switch.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: 211kawasaki on December 18, 2010, 09:54:14 am
Mark
what ever Suzi was thinking back then must have been clouded in haze 'cos twin down tube or no twin down tube the bike at any speed over walking pace on the dirt has only one objective - and thats to kill the unsuspecting rider without notice.
The only difference between the TM400JK and the TS400 engine wise is some porting and stick it in a heavier frame with awful forks more flex than Elvis and there's going to be trouble.
Insert Maroubra story here Mark, (still regarded as a text book example of why not to own one by this reader)
Tanner
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Lozza on December 18, 2010, 11:19:21 am
Just would have been cheaper to produce I would very much doubt any solid engineering reason was behind the change.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 18, 2010, 11:54:44 am
Thanks for the links, MARIO308, i have sent him an email.Just what i need. ;D Just need to find a centre port exhaust pipe, TS or TM i am not too fussed. Thanks for the link to the listing Doc. The sheet listing i have is from a Suzuki book and seems to have a more comprehensive frame no. listing, as in it has the TS4003- prefix before the number, for most models. Happy to e-mail if anyone wants it. ;D
You would think a centre port would be better, but i suppose air doesnt care which way is up as long as it flows well. Maybe it would allow for a slightly longer primary section? That science is a bit beyond me!
There was a website that had some sort of program for making your own expansion chamber with printable templates, does anyone know of this?
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: JC on December 18, 2010, 02:19:19 pm
Are there any opinions in the press coverage as to whether the centre port cylinder made any significant difference to the bike JC? .

Text only mentions raised C.R. (7.3 vs 6.8:1), more finning on both cyl & head, & diff (wider) gear ratios for 1st & 5th. Engine has incredibly flat torque curve.
New frame (27.5 Lbs) was said to be same geometry, rake, w'base, but longer forks & bigger fr wheel & they hated the effect of the changes.

I've often wondered what 1 of these engines would be like in Maico frame, or even AJS stormer frame(!)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: JC on December 18, 2010, 02:20:28 pm

There was a website that had some sort of program for making your own expansion chamber with printable templates, does anyone know of this?

Ian Williams Tuning site IIRC
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: firko on December 18, 2010, 04:09:08 pm
Quote
I've often wondered what 1 of these engines would be like in Maico frame, or even AJS stormer frame(!)
Lew Davis in Penrith club actually raced a TM400 powered AJS Stormer and reported it to be "fu*king awful". I almost bought it for $400 on the side of the road back in 1989 but Lew beat me to it. As for putting one in a Maico frame.....you should be ashamed for even considering it! ;D.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 18, 2010, 04:43:13 pm
No offence to the vmx purists but this would be a great option for the TS400 in my veiw ;) Although these Vic Camp (UK) bikes pictured are TS250's the same could be and probably was applied to the 400. What I like is they used the standard TS frames. I know he made an SP370 version also and there have been numerous guys over the years racing the TS400's on bitumen both here and UnZud.

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1paQCZl7Eyw96rerdkCWxPiZBi5s_RQWCNmNlFMWGY04Pkml778remqvcug9OeOOqeKKZUVcMWV2iJoPKGfp3MQA/TS250%20Suzuki%20road%20racer.jpg?psid=1)

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pEsU-ZlDcvtzWx_vu2LlagF15RCrIMU28hAEHlB90-UYbzb4rBp_UEnBBh0TPw2vYF2wjF29I9oZKBxlSPQisLg/vic%20camp%20ts250%201978.jpg?psid=1)

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pxRPMgw72byrNRHyoR9zBcaHgGoaZ6s0IkG29LP8yhMFj2GUaiVJSmhQ_eaMXITyJEP7aVJc22hefPFrM98R9zg/camp-suzuki-250.JPG?psid=1)

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pj3Jj2IZDaZwonwyLC4Fwp4CyPcQG5_D_EOOgzm6nRbxqTixOmPBzeolYG1VP3fabORLxS-GC-urRwsjVjshthA/Vic%20Camp%20TS250%20frame%20TM250%20engine.jpg?psid=1)

(http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pGCa4OdKlpuBqSzP5kvO6gdrHRy_7tXNeUQc6OwI-k4KvGsz_6aPaxAxHNYk0AtUuiDAuGzTn3sCa93iwnEEDhQ/TS250%20Suzuki%20Road%20Racer%201.jpg?psid=1)

The Blurb..
During 1975 the former UK Ducati importer Vic Camp created a new lightweight 250cc racer based on Suzuki's popular TS 250 trail bike. Although the choice of base motorcycle may seem somewhat strange the result was a very effective clubmans racer which proved to be popular. The basic engine, which had a five speed gearbox, was effectively half a T500 twin for which a great deal of tuning information was available. It had also formed the basis for the TM 250 Challenger which delivered 30 bhp in comparison to the 23 bhp of the TS and Suzuki had marketed a tuning kit in the States for the TS that effectively took the engine up to the TM's state of tune. The standard TS frame was fitted with shorter forks from the Suzuki range and a disc brake was fitted. A full fairing, racing tank and saddle together with clip-ons,rear-sets and an expansion chamber completed the conversion. In all it is believed that 48 Vic Camp TS 250s were built, but other specialists, inspired by the success of the Vic Camp machines created similar motorcycles.


Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Lozza on December 18, 2010, 07:15:58 pm
Would be easy to wring 60HP out of the engine, there is a Kiwi built running round somewhere that has 75hp at the wheel on methanol.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Davey Crocket on December 18, 2010, 10:04:46 pm
Thats probably Pete Sales bike, started life as a TM400, Pete and his son have raced it from new.....very, very fast...barrell has alot of welding.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: DR on December 18, 2010, 10:33:11 pm
75HP! would be intersesting to see the bottom end on that engine ;)
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 18, 2010, 11:12:24 pm
75hp!! Do they have a website? Sounds like fun....or pain...... depends what you are in to! ;D
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Lozza on December 19, 2010, 12:31:41 am
No (in)famous full circles Doc just a stock TS crank with a 135mm rod. The fellow that built the engine(Wayne 'wobbly' Wright) told me it was all TS. I think I still have the port/pipe/ignition specs here somewhere.
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 19, 2010, 09:27:37 am
Yes please Lozza! If they are available that sounds like an interesting project. I have a spare bottom end and would love to do something silly like that. I have access to a dyno and a metalfab shop, and an interesting old bloke i know has a flow bench! Would be happy to report my findings. ;D
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: Lozza on December 19, 2010, 10:16:02 pm
Well you don't need me then  ;D
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: noisy toy on December 20, 2010, 04:11:21 pm
Hey Lozza if that info was available i would love to give it a go. Turns out i do need you!  :o
Title: Re: ts400
Post by: trailietrash on December 20, 2010, 05:51:30 pm
No offence to the vmx purists but this would be a great option for the TS400 in my veiw ;) Although these Vic Camp (UK) bikes pictured are TS250's the same could be and probably was applied to the 400. What I like is they used the standard TS frames. I know he made an SP370 version also and there have been numerous guys over the years racing the TS400's on bitumen both here and UnZud.

Very nice Doc  ;D

and as I don't have a KH125 in the shed I decided to to add a GT185 front end to one of the TS125's Vic Camp style to build up a registrable road rider apart from the TS125 trailbike and TM framed RM125M vinduro project.

but for a bit of fun roadie, you could almost squeeze that TS400 into a GT250 frame  ;)  ;D