OzVMX Forum
Marque Remarks => British (BSA, Greeves, Triumph etc) => Topic started by: livi.05 on November 12, 2010, 04:43:21 pm
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Hello all ,
Just wondering if anyone can enlighten me as to which frame kit is the best, Rickman Metisse or Cheney MX( quality of build and how the end result , handling and robustness ) . I am looking to build a Triumph 650 MX Pre-65 version of either of these 2 kits , and like the look of both equally . So it comes down to the info i can gather from people who have had experience with either or both of these chassis. If anyone can help me it would be greatly appreciated ,i may also be interested if someone has one available.
Thanks Jason
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Sure Firko will have a lot to say on this one.
Both bikes will build into something really good looking with some care. I think the Cheney looks awesome and there is not one on every street corner.
BUT.... I think you will have an easier more professional time dealing with Rickman, they have a local agent in OZ and will send all the million and one small bits you need without any drama.
Plus the Ricky has everything you need basically in stock so fabrication is reduced to the wheels spacers and not much else. Unless like me you are fitting pre unit.... ::)
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if you want to build it your self start with a duplex bsa frame.b33 b31 a10
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if you want to build it your self start with a duplex bsa frame.b33 b31 a10
Yeah I have Rickman kit that lets you fit Rickman bodywork to BSA frame. so possible. But hell of a lot heavier
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yes it would be heavy but fun to build unit or pre unit.
i have a duplex ariel frame 1 day the bike will be finished just needs to move along in the que
jim
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Metisse or Cheney....Blonde or Brunette............they're all beautiful but it all comes down to which one grabs you by the short and curlies. As Marc said, the Rickman has an advantage of having a local distributor in Don Newell and in there being two different manufacturers to pick from that are making replicas. http://www.rickman-motorcycles.com/index.php (http://www.rickman-motorcycles.com/index.php) and http://www.metisse-motorcycles.com/ (http://www.metisse-motorcycles.com/) which is both weird and confusing.
I've had a passion for Metisse ever since I saw my first one in the late sixties. They were already old fashioned by the time I came along but the beauty of the fibreglass bodywork and the quality of the workmanship blew me away. As an apprentice boilermaker I was really impressed by the quality of the brazing and even today I still oggle at the quality whenever I see one. I didn't have much knowledge of Cheney's as there weren't anywhere the number of them on the Aussie scene back in their hey day. That changed when I saw and rode my friend Vern Grayson's beautiful Cheney Triumph back in the mid 90's. I was really impressed by the simple yet strong frame and once again by the quality of the welding and fabrication. Today I'm drawn between both and while I don't own a Triumph Metisse these days I would again at the drop of a hat.
The problem with Cheney from my perspective is having to deal with Simon Cheney who's turned out to be just as difficult as his dad Eric was. Others may have had good luck in dealing with him but I have nothing but problems when building my Cheney.http://www.cheneyracing.co.uk/ (http://www.cheneyracing.co.uk/)
In the end it's impossible to answer your question properly Jason as both Metisse kits and Cheney's frames are all quality. In the end it'll come down to what fits into your price range and what excites the passion within. How do you pick from these below?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/Cheney%20red.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/grey%20metisse.jpg)
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Both very very nice Firko.
Though do you have a nice pic of a Rhind Tutt Wasp solo ?, for another possible choice for jason !! 8)
cheers
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Love Metisse but Cheney gets the rogering for me,just need to get Simon Cheney to perform
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Yeah the Cheney in the photo sold for very reasonable price on ebay last year..... :-\
I think the Cheney wins on looks, has collectability.... I have fresh Cheney project on the boat at the moment ;D
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Though do you have a nice pic of a Rhind Tutt Wasp solo ?, for another possible choice for jason !!
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/wasp.jpg)
Yeah I forgot about Wasp Alison. They're another 'near as buggery' copy of a Metisse. Don Newell was handling them but I'm not sure if he still deals in them. Paul Neilson here in Sydney was building one using my ex basket case MK4 Metisse and my Frank Stanborough built 500 Triumph engine but it was sold as a project to a member of the forum.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/wasp.jpg (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/wasp.jpg)
http://wasp-motorcycles.tripod.com/id2.html (http://wasp-motorcycles.tripod.com/id2.html)
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I like the red Cheney Firko....I want to know who lifted that red sucker a couple of posts earlier up on the stand!!!
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another Cheney, probably my pick of best looking pre65 British MXer
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/0260390260.jpg)
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Has anyone got a photo of Verns Cheney? I wish I had one to post.
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Of course a lot depends on how handy you are with the spanners, I have seen a couple of build articles where the builder thought his throat was cut having to make the odd spacer .... both bikes will need some skills.
I decided to complicate my life by going pre unit, but possible, you just need to know what you are doing, making a few brackets and modifying plates etc, basic fit up took me 4 hours.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/MexicoandNewZealand760.jpg)
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Jesus, you want to start WW3 do ya Mark?...I wonder how him and Averill are going, I'll try and find out.
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Talk to me before you go anywhere near the color chips marc...we dont want another RM125C debarkle. ;)
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Jesus, you want to start WW3 do ya Mark?...I wonder how him and Averill are going, I'll try and find out.
Point is if you want an easy life then modern Rickman kit will come with everything and you should be good for relatively straight bolt up with a few spacers.
However, if you have a decent set of engineering skills then that gives you more scope with frames and engines.
As for WW3 Davey, the Hobbit put my money where his mouth is.
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Talk to me before you go anywhere near the color chips marc...we dont want another RM125C debarkle. ;)
125C is work in progress still. I have a new twist coming.
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Should I be worried? ;D
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Should I be worried? ;D
probably.... at least it doesn't involve matt black
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Here's a couple more Cheney Triumphs.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/cheney%20tri%20a.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/cheney%20tri%20b.jpg)
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Hey Firko the blue one rules.... same color as my neighbors Bugatti 35 .... he has 3 of them ::)
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I may somewhat biased but there's just something a little more unique about a Cheney........
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/Cheney/cheney20triumph.jpg)
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/Cheney/Triumph_cheney.jpg)
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/Cheney/775020.jpg)
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/Cheney/775040.jpg)
(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/Cheney/775022.jpg)
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Geez, nightmare racing would love that green one.
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The Cheney is more unique in that there are far fewer of them. That also makes doing anything with them a lot more work. I like the full size seat on the Cheney rather than the pony pad on the Rickman.
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I respect everyones rite to be an individual but the guy who owns that green Cheney needs a punch in the chops by the taste Nazis.
As I own both Cheney and Metisse I was sitting on the fence as far as answering Jasons initial question as to 'what's best' but the more I look at Cheney's, including my own, the more I'm swayed towards them. They've got that certain something, shared only by my beloved Hindalls. Sadly they're not eligible for pre 65.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/tri5002.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/tri50015.jpg)
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Cheney's, Sadly they're not eligible for pre 65.
I think you just answered his initial question............ if thats correct, ultimately pre 65 is his main criteria,
Descion made.
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I knew that and so did Jason ;).....he was initially interested in Neilson's Hindall 650 but I told him of its ineligibility offline. I stuck the photos of the 500 Hindall in there for no other reason that I like them. ;)
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Still bobs bike would have been a tasty pre 70 ride though ??/
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I hear ya Freaky Bobs 650 Hindall would be a really tough pre 70 classer. Where the Hindall has it over Cheney and Metisse is that they're so damn light. I don't know how Harry did it but he managed to build his bare frames 3-5kg lighter than the equivalent Metisse or Cheney and because he machined the crap out of forks hubs and everything else he'd get 'em in 20kg lighter than a Metisse.
Bobs 650 didn't sell which reflects the American economy. Two or three years ago it would have sold in a flash. Note the difference to the above 500 Triumph Hindall.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1062154/hindall%20650%202.jpg)
ps...sorry about the thread hijack but the Hindall's sort of in the same category.
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Jesus, you want to start WW3 do ya Mark?.
As for WW3 Davey, the Hobbit put my money where his mouth is.
I think John was referring to me bringing up the ghost of Vern Grayson's Cheney Triumph Marc. 8) About 15 years ago Vern and his bike were involved in an eligibility dispute that got extremely ugly and eventually ended up in civil court. It's a very long story to relate here but the nuts of it were whether the single downtube Cheney frame was eligible for pre 65. The backlash from the case is still felt today and it was a defining reason for the pre 65 class losing favour with racers. Many of the pro and anti brigade still don't talk to each other fifteen years later!
That's why I'm asking if anyone has a photo of the bike or perhaps they could scan my piece on the bike and the case from Dirt Action magazine circa 1995 so I could write a little post on the affair.
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The backlash from the case is still felt today and it was a defining reason for the pre 65 class losing favour with racers. Many of the pro and anti brigade still don't talk to each other fifteen years later!
Thats clears that up, I thought John was remarkably well informed about my comings and goings in Hobbiton.
man can't believe eligibility went to court, make a good magazine article and the happy care free old VMX days, 'Same Old Court Same Old Fun' :D
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Thanks to all for your suggestions ,info and photo's , i must admit that i do prefer the Cheney .
Since i placed this posting i have investigated the prices of both of these beautiful machines
and to my disappointment the Cheney is around $6900 AU delivered and the Rickman Metisse is
$3800 AU delivered ,so my decision has been made without me even having to think about it ,
it was decided by the bank balance . I still absolutely love the Metisse , so it is hardly second
best and after all it was the bike that initially got me interested in the pre-65 class in the first
place and it is a truly unique looking machine , one day i may even manage to
get a Cheney into the shed as well as a metisse (wouldn't that be greedy ) .
So thanks again . Jason
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Well one thing about the Rickman is they are usually ex stock, you are not waiting for Cheney to fire up the welding torch.
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Well one thing about the Rickman is they are usually ex stock, you are not waiting for Cheney to fire up the welding torch.
Or have to deal with Simon Cheney. ::)
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Hi Jason, this one ticks all the boxes for me :D
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/CD5014.jpg)
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Thanks to D Fisher from Cheney Twin Shock facebook for showing the below bike up for sale.
I saw a twin pipe on the weekend with some very well made pipes going down either side of the bike and she ran a good race in A Grade....looked great and neat twin finish from the rear view .. 8)
cheers A
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Triumph-Cheney-Motocross-650cc-1968-/300561733603?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item45fae017e3
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Rickman-Metisse-ONE-OWNER-Stunning-Original-/370512267416?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item5644408898
includes youtube clip
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Thanks to D Fisher from Cheney Twin Shock facebook for showing the below bike up for sale.
I saw a twin pipe on the weekend with some very well made pipes going down either side of the bike and she ran a good race in A Grade....looked great and neat twin finish from the rear view .. 8)
cheers A
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Triumph-Cheney-Motocross-650cc-1968-/300561733603?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item45fae017e3
Not the prettiest Cheney you will ever see, but well sorted and quick (the owner is no slow coach) Could well be serious value for money depending on what the reserve is set at....
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to my disappointment the Cheney is around $6900 AU delivered and the Rickman Metisse is
$3800 AU delivered ,so my decision has been made without me even having to think about it ,
it was decided by the bank balance . I still absolutely love the Metisse , so it is hardly second
best
Yeah and you have a better chance of the Rickman arriving on schedule as lets just say customer satisfaction and delivery schedules can be a little patchy at Cheney. I have found Rickman really good to deal with ( by British standards) when I have wanted stuff for mine.
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Jim Sandiford's 1970 Cheney Triumph 504 Bonham's auction.
http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19285/lot/206/
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Jim Sandiford's 1970 Cheney Triumph 504 Bonham's auction.
http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/19285/lot/206/
Wow sorry but that is uglier than the last one. Make mine look like this ....
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/0260390260.jpg)