OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nathan S on September 14, 2010, 12:43:53 pm
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NB: Keeping this seperate from the pre-90 discussion.
I've seen it dismissed as a joke a few times - but should it be?
The newest pre-95 bike is already older than pre-75 bikes were in the beginning of VMX.
None of them have alloy frames, 3D ignitions, solenoid carbs, or modern riding positions.
There's no main-stream fast 4-strokes.
They are all indisputably, hoplessly outdated against real moderns.
The newest pre-95 bike is already older than pre-75 bikes were in the beginning of VMX.
Our collective focus on the obvious improvements that marked the end of the pre-75 era, and the end of the Evo era, blinds us to the continued advances made on newer bikes.
The newest pre-95 bike is already older than pre-75 bikes were in the beginning of VMX.
If anyone wants to claim that a 1994 model has a hope against moderns, then you're dreaming.
The newest pre-95 bike is already older than pre-75 bikes were in the beginning of VMX.
VMX is about looking back at the past. But if we stubbornly refuse to move out of the past, then we're doomed.
The newest pre-95 bike is already older than pre-75 bikes were in the beginning of VMX.
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Nathan you feeling brave today :)
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A little.
Mostly annoyed that we're still pretending that its 1994 and (in our 1994 fantasy) we're pretending that its 1974.
Either the 1994 fantasy or the 1974 fantasy is fine - I induge in both quite regularly...
But both at once is all screwed up.
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Brave or not, nathans just saying whats obvious.....pre 95 bikes are now 15yrs+ old...that is old old old in modern day terms....these pre 90/95 bikes are vmx's future.....The future is coming....
Just changing the subject slightly,has anybody consider on the future availability of pre 95 mxe'rs.......correct me if im wrong but I believe the numbers of mxe'rs sold in the 90's were vastly down on the 70/80's.......could this lead to a starvation of bike supply in the next 10/15yrs????
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Nathan you feeling brave today :)
He must be and me too ;D..
Wish Nathan would preserve the era's we have and not create another one :-X
my opinion only. 8)
cheers
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This just has to be a fuc*ing wind up. ;D
Funny thing, I was exchanging emails with an American mate this morning and he told me that the fastest growing sector of the sport in his area, the Northwest Coast, the Premier class (roughly pre 65) is attracting vastly increased numbers and that they, like us are finding it hard to fill many classes in the Evo and pre 85 divisions. The same arguments for and against pre 90 and pre 95 are going on there as well. He reckons that it's become very cool for younger guys to race the older bikes, especially British bikes and reckon it's a flow on from the Rockabilly, Rat Rod, 50s/60s nostalgia thing. My mate recently sold a BSA Metisse to an ex Crusty freestyle champ married to a pop star........
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My mate recently sold a BSA Metisse to an ex Crusty freestyle champ married to a pop star........
…did he get a free tatoo, or body piercing? ;)
No disrepect Firko, but you will have kittens if the young, tattoo/body piercing set flood the pre-65 races with their bling, their attitude and flat peaked caps. ;D
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I havent seen anyone here pushing for pre 2000 ???
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No disrepect Firko, but you will have kittens if the young, tattoo/body piercing set flood the pre-65 races with their bling, their attitude and flat peaked caps.
You calling me unhip Jeff? :o If you want to see those folks frolic in their own comfort zone, go to a Nostalgia drag meeting or one of Deus ex Machinas swapmeet/open days. The way these kids have taken on old stuff that we've moved on from is amazing. Flathead fords, six Stromberg manfolds atop 421 Buick nailheads, Holden grey motors, you name it....it's all a passion to these kids and the intensity they show towards the old stuff is great. My mate Mike reckons that their discovery of old desert sled Triumphs and the street tracker movement few years ago has inspired the progression into the older VMX classes. He told me they are more sticklers to period correctness than the older (read my) generation and that the humble TRIBSA has become the new 490 Maico with new bikes turning up almost every meeting.
To be honest, I like these kids and their attitude. I'm not so much into the tatts or piercings but the stuff they like is the stuff I like and grew up with. The hot rod, chopper and custom car movements have gone back to the fifties for their influence, why not VMX. If it keeps the sport alive and adds colour to a pit area that's quickly turning into a sea of yellow, red and white plastic, I'm all for it.
Pre 95?.....As I said earlier....Nathan's enjoying himself by giving us a wind up so don't take it too seriously ;) .
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You calling me unhip Jeff? :o
It's no fun if you don't bite! :(
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/dog_lazy_walk-1.gif)
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/dog_lazy_walk-1.gif)
Long live the RAT
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/Therat.jpg)
Go the rat
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/Therat.jpg)
Go the rat
That's him :D
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Pre 95?.....As I said earlier....Nathan's enjoying himself by giving us a wind up so don't take it too seriously ;) .
Absolutely not.
I'm not demanding pe-95 VMX now, but I am hoping that we might be able to start thinking about it sensibly.
I hoping that in the near future we might be able to make a rational decision based on its merits (or lack there-of), rather than a reactive impulse.
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/ECA05AP96CAXHX5X7CA3X90MVCAEV3ZFQCAZBPP0BCA3VROMUCAKMGW1ACAUI21T4CA5SLA95CAFK6J2BCAAJXW07CAUQ24SFCAAW8Y0RCAKI4CCDCAV1825CCreadytowork.jpg)
I will be keeping a close eye on this situation in case we need a mediator.
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near future
Come on Nathan....Pre 85 is only a new thing and pre 90 is still essentially only a proposal. The time for pre 95 is still at least five years away so I reckon we're better off fixing the problems with the sport today than adding to the situation.
This is silly and I know that if I don't walk away this'll turn into a bunfight well in need of a mediator. Vintage motocross is up shit creek and nobody's got the smarts or the guts to do anything about it. Fu*k me, the sport's gone down the slippery slide since the intro of Evo and further down the gurgler every time another brain surgeon introduces yet another division. You don't fix a hole in a bucket by adding more water. Pre 95? Yep it's a wind up all right. >:(
What really annoys me is that I let this obvious wind up get to me, thus disregarding my own advice :-[.
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This is a cunning and devious plan to assist the pre90 issue. The old divide and conquer thing if you throw enough hats in the air chances are at least one will fly ::)
Why don't we forget about Pre90 and just have Pre95 ('85 - '94). Imagine you could have graded races.
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/drunksquirrelavatar.jpg)
Its going to be bad , i just know it
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This just has to be a fuc*ing wind up. ;D
Funny thing, I was exchanging emails with an American mate this morning and he told me that the fastest growing sector of the sport in his area, the Northwest Coast, the Premier class (roughly pre 65) is attracting vastly increased numbers and that they, like us are finding it hard to fill many classes in the Evo and pre 85 divisions. The same arguments for and against pre 90 and pre 95 are going on there as well.
Firko with the greatest respect mate you need to get out to a club day soon. The lack of numbers in the earlier divisions is what we are suffering from. Not as you say "finding it hard to fill many classes in the Evo and pre 85 divisions".
I had the opportunity to view the current HEAVEN point score last weekend at Canberra. The amount of participants this year in the later classes and especially in EVO is astounding possibly at an all time high in some classes while numbers in pre '78 and earlier are consistently low.
Despite the fantastic efforts of the committee's over the past three years in running friendly and fun events it seems that the good old boys and their mates were so badly burned by the previous administration that we have lost them forever. I can understand that as the dictators also made me abandon the club during their reign of terror. But I bit the bullet and came back when we were rid of them and have had the most enjoyable years of VMX I have experienced.
It would be great if you could rally the troops and get out to Canowindra. There is probably no better venue in NSW at the moment for Pre '78 racing. I am sure if you all give it a go your opinion of racing with HEAVEN will change dramatically for the better.
Cheers
Shaun
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Shoey I am loving your pussies....
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You don't fix a hole in a bucket by adding more water.
Good analogy. The only way to fix the holes in the VMX bucket is to somehow stop people ageing, so they forever remain young enough to race the bikes they're passionate about.
Until then, keeping fresh blood flowing in (ie: pouring in more water) is the only way to ensure the bucket doesn't end up empty.
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Outside of WA, the genie has already been let out of the bottle. We can't simply disregard all of the punters with post-74 bikes, and concentrate on pre-75 only - there would be hell to pay.
However, we can build a new bottle for the pre-75 genie. Until then, its all pissing in the wind.
So... Unless the NSW pre-75 hard-cores are willing to put in the time and effort to create and run a stand-alone pre-75 club, then they are also going to have to accept that there will be other people pushing our one Vintage MX club in directions they might no like.
Why did Penrith turn away from pre-75? Why did HEAVEN become the only place for pre-75 VMX?
Bet it has SFA to do with Evo (and later) bikes....
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I like Shoey's photos... so I will join in. ;D
Pre-95???
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1052255/bullshit_meter_in_the_red_250x154.jpg)
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Instead of pissing around with pre 90, just make it up to pre 95.....far easier ;)
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Please Let me know from the 100s of pre 2010 bike could have rode a Canberra..
(Please Note that all Members CAN RIDE A Pre 90 / pre 95 / pre 2020 Bike on the Practice Day ..this a sume think that is all way
left out . Why ??)
and from the Numbers I noted. Pre 2010 did Better than Pre 95 .so From the 100s of Members Busting to Ride there
pre 90 bike pre 2010 out number them 10 to 1 and I dont think I saw the pre 90 bike out on the track..???
## And The ACT Canberra Track all way pull less Pre 75 / pre65 Bike . Lets look at the numbers of Pre 75 Bike a the CRC
and Canowindra.. and Can you go back the larst years EVO Challenge can give me the LOW numbers of Pre 85 Bike .
So Lets Just Piss OFF Vintage Motor Cross it would save a Lot of work ..
Because I am ONE VMXer how is going to do that..
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.... I dont think I saw the pre 90 bike out on the track..???
There were three pre-90s there. At least two of them hit the track.
More people own moderns than pre-90s - it makes sense that we'd see more moderns at a practice day.
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Don’t worry Nathan, they also chopped the heads from those that first said the world was round.
It seems okay to discuss stinkin politics and football on this forum so I don’t see the big deal in discussing this issue.
I’ve been going to start a similar thread as I’ve seen it mentioned a few times that people think that one day pre 95 may come in, just haven’t had the time to write something up properly.
Lets see who’s first to take me out of context.
The classes we have are technology based despite being labeled by years.
Pre 75 is aimed at bikes that have 7” & 4” travel as well as being pre75.
Pre 78 is aimed at the first long travel bikes, which were determined to be anything lees than 9”. Right or wrong this was the line in the sand.
Evo, well we’ve been over this a million times.
Pre 85 was the fist batch of linkage suspension
And Pre 90 (yes there is life outside of NSW, this class has been around many years in Vic.) is the first era of “moderns”
Most of the bikes in these classes can be determined easily from one class to the next by the advancement of their technology.
But once we get into the nineties its hard to follow their evolution.
Just choosing a date in the middle of a decade is a neat way to do it, but pre 80 didn’t work and the line was moved back to pre 78 in order to group similar bikes together.
So if there is ever to be a class to follow on after pre 90, where would you draw the line?
What technology defines 90 & 00 models from each other. Having never owned a 90’s model I’m not real familiar with them.
# Perimeter frames came in, Kawasaki started it and most (all?) alloy frames are of the perimeter design. While it made some engineering sense it hardly set the world on fire, and to this day some brands haven’t adopted it (Husky & KTM for starters.
# Alloy frames are another advancement. Except there more about production simplicity than any real advantage. Remember when McGrath refused to use them for a few years. And again not all manufactures have gone this way.
# Countershaft sprocket in line with the swingarm. A BMW thing only
# Backwards motor. Connondale & Yamaha. Just another way to do things.
# Forward motor. Husaberg only so far. Supposed to be better handling but it won’t turn a dork into a champion.
# Four stroke. This is the only real change that I can see, A capacity advantage saw them creep in so we can save the planet from fumes (yeah right)
Love them or hate them I see them as the only real change.
Pre 95 you say? But how many flow on models would fit into that class?
It would be a true scrutineers nightmare.
I reckon if ever there was a class to come after Pre90 it would be 2 stroke based.
The only dilemma then will be 91 models would be considered junk and most would chase after the later models.
I think you would find that there are many that remember the 2 stroke days with fondness the same way many here remember the first YZ’s or RM’s etc.
I just repaired an exhaust for a 98 KX 125. The youngish owner had just finished restoring it. Yes I can hear you all scoffing, but to him it represents his good years and it was easy to restore. While it’s quite a modern bike I can’t help but look at it and think of the days when these bikes ruled and I find it quite appealing. Wouldn’t mind one for a practice bike actually.
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Please Let me know from the 100s of pre 2010 bike could have rode a Canberra..
(Please Note that all Members CAN RIDE A Pre 90 / pre 95 / pre 2020 Bike on the Practice Day ..this a sume think that is all way
left out . Why ??)
and from the Numbers I noted. Pre 2010 did Better than Pre 95 .so From the 100s of Members Busting to Ride there
pre 90 bike pre 2010 out number them 10 to 1 and I dont think I saw the pre 90 bike out on the track..???
## And The ACT Canberra Track all way pull less Pre 75 / pre65 Bike . Lets look at the numbers of Pre 75 Bike a the CRC
and Canowindra.. and Can you go back the larst years EVO Challenge can give me the LOW numbers of Pre 85 Bike .
So Lets Just Piss OFF Vintage Motor Cross it would save a Lot of work ..
Because I am ONE VMXer how is going to do that..
Lay off the stilnox when drinking red , it's no good for you brother.. ;D ;D ;D
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Where's me 2000 model Husaberg 501 fit into this Geoff?....love that bike!
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Where's me 2000 model Husaberg 501 fit into this Geoff?....love that bike!
I Have my beloved 1989 Husaberg 501 and I know exactly where that fits....... ;)
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Please Let me know from the 100s of pre 2010 bike could have rode a Canberra..
(Please Note that all Members CAN RIDE A Pre 90 / pre 95 / pre 2020 Bike on the Practice Day ..this a sume think that is all way
left out . Why ??)
and from the Numbers I noted. Pre 2010 did Better than Pre 95 .so From the 100s of Members Busting to Ride there
pre 90 bike pre 2010 out number them 10 to 1 and I dont think I saw the pre 90 bike out on the track..???
## And The ACT Canberra Track all way pull less Pre 75 / pre65 Bike . Lets look at the numbers of Pre 75 Bike a the CRC
and Canowindra.. and Can you go back the larst years EVO Challenge can give me the LOW numbers of Pre 85 Bike .
So Lets Just Piss OFF Vintage Motor Cross it would save a Lot of work ..
Because I am ONE VMXer how is going to do that..
Congratulations, you have won tonight's "Bunny with the Pancake" award.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1052255/Understand-Bunny_(Pancake).jpg)
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Where's me 2000 model Husaberg 501 fit into this Geoff?....love that bike!
Dunno, I was trying to look at it logically, and logically I wouldn't buy a Husaberg
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Why did Penrith turn away from pre-75?
one worded answer....apathy. They are still an essentially pre '75 club but don't bother too much any more.
We can't simply disregard all of the punters with post-74 bikes,
No argument from me. I don't know where I made this a pre '75 v the rest argument. This has little to do with pre '75 so don't throw the old phurphy that I'm only referring to pre '75 into the discussion. I'd be the worlds greatest optimist to think that pre '75 can come back to the pre HEAVEN entry levels. That bird has flown. The point I'm making and continue to make is that the combined current class system (Pre '75, Evo and pre '85) is not operating at anywhere near an acceptable entry level. That's where my bucket analogy comes to life...Adding new divisions (water) to the holy bucket (VMX) doesn't fix the hole (unacceptably low entry levels).
Bet it has SFA to do with Evo (and later) bikes....
You're correct Nathan the downturn in entry levels has less to do with Evo and later bikes than the she'll be right attitude by clubs towards promotion, public awareness and recruitment. The clubs, especially Penrith have chugged along happy in their lot and just going through the motions. That's not anyones fault in particular, it's just another example of the lack of entrepreneurial spirit amongst the vintage population. As long as the punters show up on race day, she'll be right. Not much thought goes into getting more, new punters to turn up or, probably more importantly trying to get those racers who've left the fold to come back. In my day, if a racer hadn't turned up for a race meeting or two, I called him up to see how he was going and to see if there was a problem causing him to not turn up. Has anyone ever gone to the trouble of attempting to get lost racers back in recent times? Have HEAVEN put on bike displays complete with flyer distribution at modern meetings and in shopping malls as we did during my time at the helm of Penrith? Does HEAVEN have a press liason officer who compiles results, a small article and a couple of photos to distribute to Torque, AMCN and the suburban local rags? Does the club submit personality pieces to the local press promoting local riders who've done well or to promote a particular event? If the answer to any of the above questions is "er, well no", well not enough is being done to promote the sport.
Firko with the greatest respect mate you need to get out to a club day soon. The lack of numbers in the earlier divisions is what we are suffering from. Not as you say "finding it hard to fill many classes in the Evo and pre 85 divisions".
Shaun...The entries at todays club motocross meetings are around half of what we were getting during the boom years with just pre '75 and earlier to worry about. There were enough entries to present three, sometimes four distinct age groups with full grids in nearly all of those age group capacity classes. At some meetings the over 30/250 division would have two separate grids! I'll end up repeating this mantra in my sleep but the current vintage scene with it's luxury of being able to present classes for everyone from pre '65 to pre 85 can't even fill one age group grid in most of the Evo and Pre 85 classes (notwithstanding the problems inherent with the pre '78 divisions as well), introducing pre 90 and now the call for pre 95 is not the right thing to do. Fix the bucket first. When a vintage club day can boast of filling full grids in all of the major classes, then and only then should we be looking at pre 90.
I understand the passion for those bikes...believe it or not I honestly believe that the 80s were the greatest in our sports history, both for the amazing horsepower wars in the 500 class, the suspension revolution and for the great riders that emerged during that decade. However, the health of our sport is to me more important than continuing to add new classes to satisfy the notion that because a bike is 20 or 25 years old, it therefore deserves a class of its own. If things were going well...you betcha, bring on pre 90. But while pre 85 is still finding its way and Evo is struggling to fill grids in some capacities...introducing pre 90 will only exasperate the problem. Introducing pre 95 would be rash stupidity.
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The only Pre-95 models I like are these ones...
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1052255/SydMS0616.JPG)
Agree Shoey? ;)
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(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1052255/bullshit_meter_in_the_red_250x154.jpg)
now that some of us older people are sliding our slippers under the bed and tucking in our striped pj's,while snuggling down and sipping a hot chocolate and vovo biscuit..we wish you a continence evening of productive pre95 positive discussion...oh and that RED BULL is a 2005 modern model ..nite nite ;D
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I'll take the 2nd from the left.....I'm sure she's looking at me?
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I'll take the 2nd from the left.....I'm sure she's looking at me?
Stop window shopping Davey, you wouldn't keep up ;D
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Alistair I know that You would have No Idea what I am talking about .
and if just worked all weekend runing a race meeting and 3 day befor that geting a track ready
and then spend 2 days of this week
on the phone all for the sport of VMX .
Than I thank you for the pancake
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No problem, I hope you enjoy it. ;D
(and by the way, I have organised and run a race meeting or 50 in my time... just in case you didn't know that) :o
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Shaun...The entries at todays club motocross meetings are around half of what we were getting during the boom years with just pre '75 and earlier to worry about. There were enough entries to present three, sometimes four distinct age groups with full grids in nearly all of those age group capacity classes. At some meetings the over 30/250 division would have two separate grids! I'll end up repeating this mantra in my sleep but the current vintage scene with it's luxury of being able to present classes for everyone from pre '65 to pre 85 can't even fill one age group grid in most of the Evo and Pre 85 classes (notwithstanding the problems inherent with the pre '78 divisions as well), introducing pre 90 and now the call for pre 95 is not the right thing to do. Fix the bucket first. When a vintage club day can boast of filling full grids in all of the major classes, then and only then should we be looking at pre 90.
Firko when you say boast full grids how many bikes do you mean?
I know the numbers today are significantly lower than the early days. I remember when even HEAVEN ran two divisions in some EVO classes and agree the numbers are nowhere near that today. However EVO and later classes still represent the largest participation levels in the HEAVEN club over the season by a country mile.
The older bike riders are voting with their feet and if we don't address the issue of recruitment soon I feel that the future may be bleak.
It's funny but I was talking about promotion along the same lines as you just last weekend. Since the demise of your award winning column in ADB, main stream media attention of VMX is sorely lacking. As a club I feel that a prioprity should be made of instigating regular press releases to the publications you mentioned as well as on-line sites such as fullnoise.com.au etc. This along with the introduction of later year cut offs to interest younger enthusiasts is in my humble opinion the direction that we must take to ensure the ongoing success of the club.
btw I too think Nathan has gone a bit far with pre '95 but he's pregnant at the moment so will let it slide ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Shaun
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Hi Nathan
yes! far too much time on your hands ;D
Shoey, you say so much with so little effort.
SO TO EVERYBODY ELSE, I DONT HAVE THE TIME TO READ YOUR LIFE STORIES, JUST SPIT IT OUT.
Cheers Trev
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Hi Nathan
yes! far too much time on your hands ;D
Shoey, you say so much with so little effort.
SO TO EVERYBODY ELSE, I DONT HAVE THE TIME TO READ YOUR LIFE STORIES, JUST SPIT IT OUT.
Cheers Trev
I knew this subject would bring out Worms...
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1052255/CanofWorms.JPG)
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;D ;D ;D ;D yup :D :D yep, ;D ;D ;D yep
now that makes sense :D
Worms
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/ohno.jpg)
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[/quote]
Lay off the stilnox when drinking red , it's no good for you brother.. ;D ;D ;D
[/quote]
That is "GOLD" Darren ;D ;D ;D
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Geoff, Great minds think alike - and apparently so do your's and mine. ;D
I've been thinking about the technological advances made in mainstream production bikes since 1970, how quickly they were adopted by other manufacturers/how long did it take before they made a worthwhile difference, and whether they were really a performance improvement (rather than a marketing gimmick)...
I've ignored anything that was tried and dropped (like boost bottles).
(And please don't turn this into a train-spotting exercise, arguing over whether the 1974 KX450 was mainstream or not)
In rough chronological order:
1970~74.
Reed valves.
6-speed gearbox (for 125s).
Plastic fuel tanks.
Single shock.
1975~79.
More than 4" travel rear.
More than 7" travel front.
Bigger diameter forks (goes hand-in-hand with longer forks).
1980~84.
Twin leader front drum brakes.
Plated cylinders (ignoring the earlier chrome bores).
Linkage rear suspension.
Water cooling.
Exhaust power valves.
Front disc brakes.
Safety seats.
Case reed intakes.
1985~90.
Rear discs.
USD forks.
Multi-stage power-valves.
1990~94.
Perimeter frames.
Long-stroke 2-stroke motors.
1995+.
Aluminium frames.
The modern 4-stroke.
Flat seats/foward handlebars.
Hydraulic clutches.
3D ignitions.
The interesting thing is that very few of those were clear improvements in their first year - and many of them were actually steps backwards for a while. Most of the remainder only made very minor improvements to performance.
Also worth noting that not every bike in the era got the improvement straight away, and often only a small number had it (eg: Only two bikes had an alloy frame in 1999).
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(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1052255/surprise.jpg)
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/Crazy-Baby.gif)
I've seen babies look like that - it usually means they're busting out a big one... ::)
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/nervouscatavatar.gif)
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/Crazy-Baby.gif)
I've seen babies look like that - it usually means they're busting out a big one... ::)
And I know for a fact that you never hung around to enjoy the consequences. :D
All that was heard was the sound of slamming doors and the car starting… ;)
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best thread in ages ;D
love ya work Shoey and Ajay
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Ok ive seen it mentioned a few times now, what is a 3D ignition?
Suzuki had had case reed induction back in the mid 70's.
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(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/Crazy-Baby.gif)
I've seen babies look like that - it usually means they're busting out a big one... ::)
And I know for a fact that you never hung around to enjoy the consequences. :D
All that was heard was the sound of slamming doors and the car starting… ;)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1052255/whistling.gif)
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Best do the honorable thing , and do a runner from the little guy when he's about to bust a move rather than "
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/reporterbarfscat.gif)
Throw up a cat or something
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And if the wife is the same
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/familyguyexorcistavatar.gif)
Good chance the kid's going to go ferral ,have some issues later in life
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/drunksquirrelavatar-1.jpg)
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if one of the main concerns here is numbers on the grid - or lack thereof - why bother with cut off dates - why not just team up with a modern club and run the classess you have enough for on the day - if not enough fit in with the vets. I am sure that will keep the VMX movement alive. ::)
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(http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu317/suzuki43/cos.jpg?t=1284521702)
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Posted by: LWC82PE
Ok ive seen it mentioned a few times now, what is a 3D ignition?
Well a good question always demands a full and detailed response, and the way this thread is heading, it might not be a bad thing...
3D ignition is based on the concept of maps, just like the ones popularized by the Greeks and Dutch, and the ones you use when you get out of the shed and try and navigate your way to the campsite at a vmx meet that's new to you. Geographical maps come in the 2D 'political kind' - where different states are shown in different colours for example - and the 3D kind, the ones that show 'relief' or contour lines representing altitude, as well as longitude and latitude - your school, if funded adequately, may well have had one of those pop out plastic versions showing all the hills and valleys and stuff.
Let's apply this to ignition. An ignition distributor often uses little bobweights, thrown out according to engine speed by centrifugal force, to recreate the elementary 2D map envisaged by its designer; you've probably seen these maps, or because its only 2D, 'graphs', plotting ignition advance against engine revs, ie matching up one variable with a constant. These systems are inherently difficult to adjust as they are based on a combination of Greek and Victorian values and technology, neither of which are well known for their flexibility. These same concepts were applied to fuelling, in mechanical fuel injection systems. In the eternal quest for performance enhancement, clever types began to think about applying 'solid sate' electronic conepts and eventually micro-processor technology to these weakspots. In geography, 3D contour maps had been around a very long time by this point so it was pretty obvious that these clever people were eventually going to try and produce 3D ignition and fuelling maps, combining on the same map as revs and advance, other more exotic concepts including engine load, nitrous injection or actually, anything you desire, including the volume of your in-car entertainment system. This step into the third dimension was a brave one, and remains difficult for most of us to comprehend, let alone install on our own vee-hikkles. Thankfully, or maybe not, DIY 3D is now a possibility, thanks to the kind people at www.megasquirt.info etc. At this point you may well be thinking, 'but how is this relevant to all the guys here who've got smoke belching two-strokes, the very essence of technology reduced to its most base and awesome form?'. Well trust me, in addition to those loons willing to pay silly dollars for their period 'Martek MotoTek' ignition (me included), I'm sure that if you trawl the interweb for long enough you will find someone who has indeed installed a 3D map controlling not only sparks but the Yamalube injection on their early 70s crosser, but my guess is that this bike would not even be eligible in pre-95.
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Religion and motorcycles , that's an interesting mix
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Posted by: LWC82PE
Ok ive seen it mentioned a few times now, what is a 3D ignition?
At this point you may well be thinking, 'but how is this relevant to all the guys here who've got smoke belching two-strokes, the very essence of technology reduced to its most base and awesome form?'. Well trust me, in addition to those loons willing to pay silly dollars for their period 'Martek MotoTek' ignition (me included), I'm sure that if you trawl the interweb for long enough you will find someone who has indeed installed a 3D map controlling not only sparks but the Yamalube injection on their early 70s crosser.
Interesting-- all relevant I suppose since we still use two horses backsides(ass's) to measure our rail gauge,this being from the Roman/Greek chariots-- who has been stopping the progress/changes hey :-X ;D ??
cheers
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Now we are starting to groove
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The premiership leader at the moment is the Scientology sign. It covers two of my current pet peeves, bullshit religious mumbo jumbo and bullshit vintage mumbo jumbo.. Hallelujah Craig my son! ;D
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Yep, Religion, Sex, Politics, Pre 95.... all subjects to avoid. :P
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Delivery of the pre-90 proposal to the club.
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Reception party
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Now back to the groove
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It made it to the members
There was a little shuffling and murmering then
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Then a vote and they were cast away until the same time next year
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Ive lost interest in the debate...Im just waiting for the next crazy pic...Keep em comin!
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where can one go from here,
they are all very valid points Shoey and should not be taken lightly!
got to go, it's my anniversary
Cheers Worms
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A man of vision , the V was for VMX
Im off down the MILK BAR with a few of the NZ boys to watch the live shows
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Should be fun if they can keep their hands of the talent and dont go starting any fights
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Shoey - if you aren't doing drugs already - maybe you should be :D
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No drugs
Im just not busy today and Im bored.
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One last one for the day.
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Two lads going down the igloo for a couple of quite drinks.
The young pre-90 dude says, ill wait for you old pre-75 fella.
Big mistake
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One last one for the day.
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/funnypenguinji5.gif)
Two lads going down the igloo for a couple of quite drinks.
The young pre-90 dude says, ill wait for you old pre-75 fella.
Big mistake
I m with you and the old quite achiever penguin Shoey, He didn't even have to say a word, classic.
I am gathering there is movement afoot to start up a "NO VMXer's CLUB"
I say that's great, the more Motorcycle clubs the better. Obviously they will be starting up a new forum as well, one that caters for NON VINTAGE MX.
Any how, I got ot get back to the SODA BLASTING.
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Evil Rudy says,
“Don’t do drugs. Leave them for the more unfortunate and the poor so they don’t bother us”.
Social Darwinism at work... Stop making pie charts and graphs and writing soliloquies about what was what in what year and by how much - more – better - best it may be. Blah frick’n blah.
Put the motion to the committee, wrangle up the votes and make it happen. You can have my proxy. Better yet go to an existing club and tell them you want to do pre 85 and pre 90 or pre 95. Call it SVMX (Semi Vintage MX) or AVBODBDNVEBTOGMX (although vintage by original definition but deemed not vintage enough by the old guys MX). I’ll sign up there too, you can have my proxy.
Earlier than pre 78 at the last Heaven round I attended over a year ago was a snooze. Watching three guys move around the track allowed me to catch up on the sleep I missed the night before.
Please tell me it’s gotten better since then and I suppose this argument will go away.
When you pre 75 dudes were all gung ho about reliving your childhood, things were great. Your now averaging – what 60? Probably not racing this weekend are you? Neither am I and I'm 40.
The guys who have shed of pre 78 and earlier bikes (you know who you are) aren’t parting with them anytime soon so the next gen will have to wait and buy them from your widow in the garage clean out. This limits the bikes available to a point.
Although I suspect that these Gen Y freaks will never leave their couch, so it may be another 15 years until there is a seller’s market.
Anyhoo – figure it out so I know what bike to buy (hoard) next? The suspense is killing me.
Oh and another thing - fix the pre 85 class to be pre 86 so that the first disc brake model from all manufacturer qualifies. There is no outlandish benefit to an 85 RM or YZ. Hate to say it but our K1W1 friends have this correct. I know, I know, it surprises even me.
Love,
ER
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Well said ER
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Please Let me know from the 100s of pre 2010 bike could have rode a Canberra..
(Please Note that all Members CAN RIDE A Pre 90 / pre 95 / pre 2020 Bike on the Practice Day ..this a sume think that is all way
left out . Why ??)
and from the Numbers I noted. Pre 2010 did Better than Pre 95 .so From the 100s of Members Busting to Ride there
pre 90 bike pre 2010 out number them 10 to 1 and I dont think I saw the pre 90 bike out on the track..???
## And The ACT Canberra Track all way pull less Pre 75 / pre65 Bike . Lets look at the numbers of Pre 75 Bike a the CRC
and Canowindra.. and Can you go back the larst years EVO Challenge can give me the LOW numbers of Pre 85 Bike .
So Lets Just Piss OFF Vintage Motor Cross it would save a Lot of work ..
Because I am ONE VMXer how is going to do that..
Congratulations, you have won tonight's "Bunny with the Pancake" award.
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I`m so proud of you Alistair for taking the piss out of my mate because he isn`t articulate enough for you.
Without this bloke there wouldn`t have been a race meeting in Canberra last weekend.He worked all week getting the track VMX friendly only to have the heavens open and turn it into a quagmire.Did he say F..K it...NO. He got some local Canberra mates together and kept working tirelessly all weekend to make it right for all Heaven members. He even turned up Sunday to race but left his bikes on the truck so as he could perform Clerk of the Course duties.
In his post he says he is going to walk away from VMX. If he does God help Heaven then.
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Shoey - is that a picture of you???????? Please tell me you aren't a Richmond supporter?
???
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Shoey - is that a picture of you???????? Please tell me you aren't a Richmond supporter?
???
What's wrong with Richmond?? ;D
We're from Tigerland................. 8)
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Yeh Rossco
That is me and yes Im a Tigers supporter , Richmond and Sydney , have been most of my life. Some one's got to support them.
Be pretty boring with out us , god forbid we were all Pies supports or something even more evil
Ted no one is bagging Dennis , we love him , and we know he's a champ because he's our mate.
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yes Im a Tigers supporter
I knew you had a certain 'class' about you, Shoey! ;D
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Sadly I support the Richmond Tigers too :-[ and more sad I am old enough to remember when they were the gun team...........
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I'm enjoying this......bout time too....was getting sick of all the shit that was going on....how do you do that popcorn thingy?....how's jaffa town Lizzie?
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so I suppose I would be leading with the chin if I confessed I was a die hard Magpie supporter ;D I can hear it coming now - oh well what was the original point of this thread.
Oh Craig - love the tool head Taylor bit - have to say I agree ;D of course!
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I`m so proud of you Alistair for taking the piss out of my mate because he isn`t articulate enough for you.
Without this bloke there wouldn`t have been a race meeting in Canberra last weekend.He worked all week getting the track VMX friendly only to have the heavens open and turn it into a quagmire.Did he say F..K it...NO. He got some local Canberra mates together and kept working tirelessly all weekend to make it right for all Heaven members. He even turned up Sunday to race but left his bikes on the truck so as he could perform Clerk of the Course duties.
In his post he says he is going to walk away from VMX. If he does God help Heaven then.
Dear Ted,
Dennis no doubt has his heart in absolutely the right place when it comes to putting in for the VMX community. All power to him. 8)
And what he does, is his business.
This thread however is NOT about VMX and therefore needs to have the piss taken very badly. If Dennis decided to participate (and no, I still have no idea what he was trying to tell us) and became collateral damage, well I am sorry. Maybe he was agreeing with us... ;)
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When I grow up Mick? I will chew every thing that doesn't smell like a pre85 air cooled Maico, OK, ok,,,,,,,,,,,,I can do that Mick. Or I could just promise to chew every forking thing that you have ever owned or treasured instead, yep come to think of it that would be much easier, i will just chew every forking thing instead. I already have that wiring harness of the spare Beema motor for you ;D hey Mick, if you come back in half an hour, I will have this hose turned into 37 hoses for you ::), luv ya Mick.
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/MAICODOG013.jpg?t=1284551299)
Nearly as much as I love chewin everything you own.
Iam BACK.
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OK Alistair...I won`t argue with you but if you think this thread is not VMX related and deserves the piss taken contact the thread starter and try and convince him that a Pre 95 is a modern. Good luck.
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OK Alistair...I won`t argue with you but if you think this thread is not VMX related and deserves the piss taken contact the thread starter and try and convince him that a Pre 95 is a modern. Good luck.
Ted,
I don't need to do that - under no known or conventional definition does pre 95 fit the term VMX.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course in a forum such as this, but by definition, something has to be at least 20 years old to be classified as a "Classic", and of course the definitition of Vintage is even less well defined, but generally understood to be older than Classic.
So to suggest that pre-95 is a VMX thread is pure comedy, hence the need to take the piss as soon and as often as possible. ;D
And now back to the frivolity...
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Your obviously a Sycic.
I m in Newcastle, had a quake years ago, lost a good freind. Those shake ups can be a pretty disturbing thing. How is the community coping?
Sorry, never met ya. don't know your first name?
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When things get confusing....just add a female in the subject ;D
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Things that make you go...
MMMM
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Thank jebus allah budah krisna, that I am not the only one who is feeling it.
I have had it for two hours watching this video 15 times, and not over the Stang, well yeah a little bit on the Stang,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
(http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/mc125mick/cid_A6690D64C76047749D6AD72B2F3B3550stuartPC.jpg?t=1284566035) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6sqA9QtV5I)
I know this is a bike forum, but think outside the square,,,,,,,,,,,, watch the second half of the video, clamp a set of handlebars on the back of her neck. I am not sure if you would call it Pre90, but it's got to be a top ride.
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nice way to start the day boys! ;D
ok, lets get the fck-o-meter out for pre 95, where's nathan with his poll, he loves doing polls on this sort of stuff.
Maybe we could have a name change, from VMX to MX, it would make it easy for all the young ones to say :D
How hard is it to form a new club and call it PMS, ( post modern shitboxs) then you guys can have all the pre90 and pre95 and pre 2010 bikes.
PMS here we come, I can see it now VMX verses PMS
and the winners are---------------------the old bastards, on old bikes, who have a right to call themselves VMXers
now piss off and leave us alone 8)
Cheers Worms
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Morning Team
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Craig this is Barrrrbiiiiiiii Suffolk , met her at the Milk bar last nite. Got her number for you.
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af5/ee61/suffolk.gif).
The door man at the next club was checking ID's and the NZ guys were refused entry
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Shoey, this is a serious pre95 debate! and you go and put a picture of my wife on the web doing a handstand.
Hey where did you get that picture from?
Cheers Worms
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MICK-DE WHERE THE HELL DID THE VIDEO COME FROM????
I only posted up the pic....or did you add a link or something?
I clicked on the pic wondering what you were on about and the video clip came up thinking....oh shit i hope its not a porno i posted up......lol.
Had me worried for a sec.....although it would have been nice to see fergie from that rear view!
Man.....i'd love to be motor trimmer that did her shorts....umm seat :D
I say Pre-90 max......gives that 20 year gap to call it a Modern ie MVMX bike....ah bugger it i'm going back to the video ;D
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I was thinking we should stop this silly behaviour
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Then some one sent me a photo of pre-90 man and his mate pre-95 man
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Is this the meter you speak of Trev.
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I go back to what I said ages ago. We should enshrine the terminology. Vintage Motocross is Pre 1975. Then we can have Classic Motocross or some other similar name - 1975 to 1985. And Post-Classic or similar - 1985 to 1995.
If a club wants to be Vintage only, all power to them. HEAVEN for example might cater only to Vintage and Classic classes. If there's enough interest, someone could start up their own Post-Classic club, call is HELL or something. If you're good you'll ride an old twin-shock but if you bad and mean you'll be on a nice 89 YZ....
VIPER might run classes for Vintage, Classic and Post-Classic on one program. Who knows.
But Vintage is the yardstick. It started the whole thing and it's worth preserving for what it means. Pre 75 dirtbikes. Everything after can come into 'the scene' but in its place with its own philosophy. And let's face it, eventually the Post-Post-Post Classic class, Pre 2005, will be cool cos it'll have the first of the new gen 4-strokes in it.
Once you've got these divisions, it's up to clubs and individual to vote with their feet. It's silly to expect any club, eg HEAVEN to cater for every possible class for ever. Add the new classes if you wish, or if enough people want to, create a new club catering to the newer division.
Doesn't sound so hard to me.
Vintage is Vintage is Pre 75. End of story.
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Actually, how's about some thoughts on names?
I offer
Dinosaur= Pre 1965
Vintage = 1965-1975
Evolution = 1975-1985
?? = 1985-1995
?? = 1995-2005
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Actually, how's about some thoughts on names?
I offer
Dinosaur= Pre 1965
Vintage = 1965-1975
Evolution = 1975-1985
Retro = 1985-1995
New Era = 1995-2005
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Actually, how's about some thoughts on names?
I offer
Dinosaur= Pre 1965
Vintage = 1965-1975
Evolution = 1975-1985
?? = 1985-1995\ post modern crap
?? = 1995-2005\ modern crap
cheers trev, so now we can have the MA post ModernCrap Championship ;D
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MICK-DE WHERE THE HELL DID THE VIDEO COME FROM????
I only posted up the pic....or did you add a link or something?
I clicked on the pic wondering what you were on about and the video clip came up thinking....oh shit i hope its not a porno i posted up......lol.
Had me worried for a sec.....although it would have been nice to see fergie from that rear view!
Man.....i'd love to be motor trimmer that did her shorts....umm seat :D
Hi Mario, I would have to get really pissed again to figure it out ::) and I don't think my heart could take it two nights in a row. Fergie sure is a good sort but hey, I will never join another cult, unless it's hers :D ;D
If she were to be our new leader? I will vote for whatever she wants, "Pre Anything" :o ;D
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Craig are those Husky sheep? saw some like that in shoes back yard........lol
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Actually, how's about some thoughts on names?
I offer
Dinosaur= Pre 1965
Vintage = 1965-1975
Evolution = 1975-1985
Retro = 1985-1995
New Era = 1995-2005
ditto
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.... under no known or conventional definition does pre 95 fit the term VMX.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course in a forum such as this, but by definition, something has to be at least 20 years old to be classified as a "Classic", and of course the definitition of Vintage is even less well defined, but generally understood to be older than Classic.
So to suggest that pre-95 is a VMX thread is pure comedy
...
This post has holes that you could drive a Kenworth through.
Let's just keep it on track and talk about the easy stuff:
1. The sport is called "Classic Motocross" in the MA manual.
2. When VMX was started in Australia, the newest bikes were 13 years old.
3. A 1994 model bike is now 17 years old (and they're the newest pre-95 bikes) - so by your own admission the majority of the potential pre-95 field are already Classics.
You were trying to argue against me, weren't you? ???
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This post has holes that you could drive a Kenworth through.
Let's just keep it on track and talk about the easy stuff:
1. The sport is called "Classic Motocross" in the MA manual.
2. When VMX was started in Australia, the newest bikes were 13 years old. (who cares? ::))
3. A 1994 model bike is now 17 years old (and they're the newest pre-95 bikes) - so by your own admission the majority of the potential pre-95 field are already Classics.
You were trying to argue against me, weren't you? ???
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You were happy to give a damn when it was about sprouting irrational opinions without any justification, but as soon as it got a bit tricky, you went to water...
Thanks for that. ;)
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You clearly haven't read and understood my post. ::)
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Here's a good VMX bike....
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You clearly haven't read and understood my post. ::)
Oh, so you were focussing on the word "vintage", while ignoring the concept of newer era bikes as part of the 'old bike scene'?
Very helpful.
To repeat myself:
I'm not demanding pre-95 CMX now, but I am hoping that we might be able to start thinking about it sensibly.
I hoping that in the near future we might be able to make a rational decision based on its merits (or lack there-of), rather than a reactive impulse.
I had mistakely assumed that "VMX" wouldn't be taken 100% literally, but obviosuly I was wrong, so I changed it to "CMX", which you can take literally, and hopefully supply a considered response to