OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: Graeme M on January 05, 2008, 10:39:06 am
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OK, getting close to having the stable all ready to go for another year. Looking for advice on tyres and oils.
First, what's the recommendations for oil in the RM125M and TM125? I have used Motul 800 in the past but recall a thread which I can't find that suggests the fully synthetics aren't so good in the older bikes. I think there was also the suggestion that 20:1 is the optimum ratio? Any thoughts?
Secondly, I am looking at fresh tyres on my '05 YZ125. I am tossing up between Michelin S12 (F) and M12 (R), Dunlop D756 (F&R), or Kenda Millvilles (F&R). What's the go? I have Dunlops on the RM-M and they feel great, but I do like my S12s too.. And the Kendas *look* nice!
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Dunlop 756's are great tyres suitable for a wide range or conditions, i've used the Michelins too and they are good but don't seem to suit as varied conditions as the 756's. You'd have to be mad to run a modern synthetic oil at 20:1. It's designed to be used at 40 or 50:1 no matter how old the engine. If you run it at 20:1 you'd risk seizing the engine because of too much oil and not enough fuel in the mixture.
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Michelin Starcross are the best tyres i have ever used. I have in the past used Michelin S12, various Dunlops, Bridgestones and Pirrelli's. They hang on better and get alot more life out of them. The only problem is they have been hard to get as there was a problem at the factory(dont know),not with the tyres themselves. Starcross for the front is a must! I use a mineral based oil myself and use it on all my bikes. I start witha 25 to 1, plus a good slurp at the end. I figure its about 22 to 1
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oil for me is good old shell at 30:1,
been running that for years in my modern 250, my 4stroke mower, my old bikes, wipper snipper,mower, sometimes even the commodore and the odd air filter.
i'm a cheapie with tyres and use a shinco S.T. {soft terrain} up front and have had no problems with it on grass track or different dirts at around 13-15psi. $70 fitted for the front from my local guy.
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Brad there are 2 starcross's, an MS3 and an MH3. I've been using the MS3 and it's not good on hard packed terrain and the MH3 is currently unavailable. The Starcross is not available in an 18" rear so that's no good for vintage. Why would'nt you use a modern synthetic oil, you can't beat modern technology. You never saw Ricky or James or MC sitting on the side of the track with a seized 2 stroke engine.
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Grahme is looking for tires for a modern.I figured with old bikes keep to basic oil and with as many bikes i ride i don't want different fuel for different bikes.I'm not one eyed on the subject of oils and can be swayed with a good argument e.g. modern synthetic is far superior and good to go in vintage bikes. It must be the latter i am talking about (starcross) as it even holds up at Black Duck (blue groove hard) and many coversations with people with regards to grip and longevity
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It must be the MH3 front that you use Brad, the MS3 i had at blackduck broke chunks off the knobs like the rubber is too hard for hard packed tracks. I tried to get MH3's but the factory can't supply. The Dunlop 756's front and rear worked really good around there. Anyway i rode a mates new YZ250f with Bridgestones and they surprised me how good they worked. I've allways used modern oils (motul 800) at 40:1in old bikes with no dramas but then again TTS or Valvoline at 25 or 30:1 worked well in the old days too.
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I must admit the S12 has been the best front tyre I've used, but only in the right conditions. On a harder surface I find it a bit skatey. The Dunlop felt pretty good, and was definitely better on hardpack. That's why I leaned towards it as my riding is mostly intermediate to hard (I avoid riding in the rain - hate cleaning dirty bikes and gear). But of course you can't avoid the mud entirely so I didn't want to go with a hard surface tyre. I figure the modern bike needs good tyres, whereas the older ones probably aren't so critical. I have a Kenda Trackmaster on the front of the TM and a Cheng Shin on the rear and all seems fine on a bike only 6" off the ground...
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On my YZF250 I use the S12 front and S12 rear. The vintage bikes I use Metz MC5 front and MC4 rear on two of them and on the others I use S12 front and rear once again. The S12 is a great tyre. When it is muddy, and I mean kiwi mud I like the shinko holeshot MS540 front and rear(no good on the hard-pack).
I use Motul 800 and have never had a problem. Mixed anywhere between 32:1 and 40:1 is all good.
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When I got my bike the previous owner advised he had been running modern oil (?) at 50:1 - not being the fastest rider in OZ I thought to err on the safe side and dropped this back to 40:1 and on the advice of the local mechanic who does my engines use SIlkolene (although I also hear rave reviews re Motul). I use Silkolene at 40:1 in my 73 CR, 74 YZ, 82 RM and my sons 83 YZ 125 and have done for 3 years now without a problem - little smoky on the line but clears up when moving off - have done 1 plug in all that time (and that was traced back to a carby problem) and when stripping motors all looks spot on. I like it.
regards
Rossco
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I like the S12 michelins for an all around tire(tyre), when you can only pop for one for all conditions it is great, as is the 756 Dunlop. Do you have castor available in Oz.? I have seized with synthetic, but never with castor.
I like the Blendzall Green Label at 40:1, I think an international equivalent may be Silkolene's Castorene R40. Yes, it can be finciky in cold temps-and mixed fuel does not store as well, but in my experience-the ultimate protection.
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Castrol R30 25/1 its about $22 for a litre and it has a lovely smell about it after its done its work. I buy mine from Supercheap. jimson
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Hi Graeme ,
My thoughts seeing as how you have followed me and seen how my bike performs,
M12 michelin on the front,(couldn't get one last time i went to buy one so my next bike has s12 that I haven't used yet)
kenda Calsbad on the rear seems fine to me.
Motul 510 mineral at 20:1 have had no problems with reliability or wear and some how have in my head that mineral oils give better corrosion resistance when bike not in use???
Motul Transoil expert in the gearbox
Cheers
Noel
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VMX 80 for the 'box cheap as and best around
Agip Kart Castor/Synthetic(better and cheaper than>) for high revving and R30 for the pluggers all at 20:1(16:1 for road racing)
Tyres can't speak highly enough of the Kenda 'Millville' front put to the test in all types of conditions, but then again I don't ride that fast. ;D
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this oil ratio thing can open up a can of worms like it did on the PE forum, but i ended up learning a lot of things adout oils from people who know their stuff about that. ive always been a campaigner for 20 to 1 or what ever the bike manufacturer recommends
for tyres i go for what ever fits and looks like the right height/pofile and the most aggressive road legal tyres i can get. as long as it doesnt say not for highway use. i also prefer japanese brands or euro brands but have found the aisian brand Kings Tires pretty good and have had good reports from people using them. also the Kenda track master is a good tire too. not a fan of the cheap michelin AC10's as they dont last as long as the kendas also there was a Maxxis that barely lasted 24 hrs. ive also found that with Cheng chin, they are cheap and you dont get much value for money as the knobs are really low.
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Has anyone tried the "Motoz" tyres ???
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After being berated by Lozza for running 30:1, I've gone to 20:1, and am a convert.
Haven't had a blow-up since, and when you pull engines apart, everything is new and pretty (ignoring stuff that's sucked dirt, or whatever...).
Apparently they're supposed to make more power at the richer fuel:oil ratios, but I can't say that I've noticed.
Tyres. On a recomendation from this forum, I've fitted S12s to the front of a couple of my bikes and have been happy with them.
But more recently, I've ridden with other tyres that are in decent condition, and I'm not really sure I can feel the difference.
Interestingly, I replaced the almost-new S12 on the front of my (modern) Husky enduro bike with the newer Michelin hard-terrain tyre (AC10?), and even in the loose stuff, I feel more comfortable on the hard-terrain tyre.
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"Berated" ??? I thought I was being nice ;D
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i run motul 800 at 40 to 1 in everything from my kx500 to the 74 husky 400 and my rm370
run and start great (except husky eh ribbo ) ::)never foul plugs ring life is good and when i pull them down for a look everything is good, working in a shop means i can try all the tyres i have found the millville stickys excellent front and rear on all the tracks we ride on 8)
it ran last time i started it ;D
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"Berated" ??? I thought I was being nice ;D
When I was a kid, and I did something wrong/stupid, and dad found out, I'd get one of three responses from him:
1. Anger. This wasn't fun, but wasn't too bad.
2. Disappointment. Much harder to live with.
3. Education. Argh, this was torture - he obviously wanted to scream at me, but knew that I was just a kid and didn't know better...
When we had the 20:1 talk, it was much like me dad's #3... :D
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Just think Nathan in a year or so you'll have perected that tone in your voice too ;D ;D ;D
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OK. After a bit of reading I've decided to indulge the risk taker in me and buy some Motoz tyres. Haven't been able to find out much about them, but on their website they make some big claims for their Tractionator X-Circuit tyre. So a set of those will be on the 05 YZ125. I have no idea if this will be a good move or not, but with any luck they'll be the difference that sees me winning the Over 45s at the first round of Amcross on March 2... or, at least maybe staying upright and not coming last. No, actually my main goal will be to give any of the ACT boys on their vintage bikes a floggin...
Anyone else tried the Motoz tyres?
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I'm saving up for a set of moto z tyres for my IT465 so keep us posted graeme .Ron at pakenham wreckers sells them and they look good
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I have just pick the tyres for the YZ125B. The back is a Metzeler MC4 and the front is a Michelin M12. I havnt ridden with the M12 before so it will be interesting.
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Well , like one Technician from Belray (over a beer) told me ones , the oil business is as slippery as the oil.I always remembered that and used numerous brands without any failures.
As far as tyres go when riding international , I used Michelins . I hade to pay for tyres anyway and they lasted the longest. If I did not have to pay for them and could have fitted a new one between each race probably the Metzelers would have been my choice. But when we hade to pay for them and it only made the difference of 1or 2 placings ( 20-50Dollars extra Pricemoney +the risk of puncturing a tube while fitting)we opted for the longer lasting Michelins to do whole day.I knew around 10th place was our spot with the material (KTM 540) we hade.So changing tyres with all the risks involved of gaining one or two placings was not worth it . (at least thats what we thought at the time ) I still use the the wet weather Michelins on dry days today and hade a good run so far.