OzVMX Forum

Clubroom => Bike Talk => Topic started by: Marc.com on January 03, 2010, 11:29:28 pm

Title: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on January 03, 2010, 11:29:28 pm
Well I guess I have given up hope of ever seeing my frame from C&J Racing Motorcycles through polite negotiation. they were eager to get muy money but 9 months later there is no frame website or return address. Jeff Cole should be ashamed of himself for being a crook.

DO NOT DEAL WITH C&j IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THE PRICKS ARE NOW SO I CAN TRACK THEM DOWN.

I am not alone they also took another American friend of mine.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: 090 on January 04, 2010, 09:39:58 am
Why don't you ask on Marks swap meet. Be a bit more polite but you can still get the point across that he is a thief by asking where he is and has had your money for 9 months and no frame or communication. Could be a good way to flush him out.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: DR on January 04, 2010, 10:57:19 am
Hope it all works out ok Mark, some people obviously have no conscience whatsoever :-\
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: paul on January 04, 2010, 11:46:31 am
some frame makers take along time ,i know off a guy in the usa who waited over 2 years for a frame from ?
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Freakshow on January 04, 2010, 12:26:49 pm
i know firstly they moved and had some bad business issues, this  lack of supply or contact is the same response i heard from a lot of US guys who had sent motors to them to frame - some never returned   :-[

Also unless your a team or shop you'll keep getting pushed back anyway, same as the exht guys work. 

Do you still need contact details.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: LWC82PE on January 04, 2010, 12:45:29 pm

They moved, so what. They have Marcs contact details. The RIGHT thing to do would be for C&J to contact their customers they are doing work for and say something along the lines of ‘we are moving to a new address, this is our new contact details……’ They should just leave the customers wondering what the heck is going on and leave them to try and track you down and get the new contact details from a friend of a friend of a friend and put out desperate cries for help via the internet. That’s not the way you do business.
I really wonder how some people can treat their customers like this yet still remain in business. I see and hear it all the time. ::)
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: GMC on January 04, 2010, 01:10:17 pm
I thought C & J was just a one man business? & that Jeff cole was getting on a bit.

As a one man business I know what it's like to see time race by & promises go out the door. This is the main reason I usually don't accept payment until the frame is ready. It's the only way I can give my sometimes out of control life some credibility.
It also works the other way, I often get caught out with frames ready but then end up waiting several months for payment, & then some never reply at all.
On rare ocasions I have lost customers details, written down phone numbers wrong (dyslexic fingers)
or e-mails bounce back as ISP's think the e-mail is spam.

Is e-mail your only source of contact?
I have had quite a few e-mails over the years that I can't reply too for various reasons.
You can't always trust that your e-mail gets through or that their reply will get through to you.
Some ISP's have a spam filter box, try checking this for his reply, I have found a few e-mails that end up in this department & you won't know if you don't check it. He may not recieve your e-mail for the same reason. Some filters don't like some work e-mails
Try fax or phone if you can.

I know a guy that recieved his C&J a year or 2 back now & it took a while so I wouldn't give up hope.


Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Freakshow on January 04, 2010, 01:29:09 pm
Cand J have a history of this.   HE had issue then pulled in partners which went west, then packed up and moved on to Arizona i think you can try to call bill who is The New C&J Racing Frames for the last year or so (Bill) (928-377-1980) i dont think you where dealing with Jeff if this is in the last 12-24 months There number in North Carolina was 704-929-3978

Other person on the groundi think might be able to help you is Bob Neilson, i know he got burned with Dick fox and Shell, so he isnt fond of business scammers, he has good contacts in FT and would be able to locate him through guys like lineaweaver or Hos. ( Or even talk to Dale direct just email him - think his web site is dlineaweaver.com or somthing, just do a search for dale lineaweaver tuning, he'll track him down as he has done it before.  ;)

IF you can get your money back do, but youll ned to find out who actually cashed your cheque, and then get you coin back and buy a J & M Frame, turn around is only weeks.   Good luck.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on January 04, 2010, 05:39:33 pm
Cand J have a history of this.   HE had issue then pulled in partners which went west, then packed up and moved on to Arizona i think you can try to call bill who is The New C&J Racing Frames for the last year or so (Bill) (928-377-1980) i dont think you where dealing with Jeff if this is in the last 12-24 months There number in North Carolina was 704-929-3978


thanks guys, no they sent me an email at the start of last year for the balance of payment and said the frame was ready to ship, I had spoken on the phone a few times, then they did a flit, phone number became disconnected, website is gone the works. Bill Culver was my contact point and his wife Kristina, they said they were partners of Coles, which given he was supposed to be a straight up guy and had featured in VMX I thought it looked as cool as anything.

So to Jeff, Bill and Kristina a big F$%^K you and it is going to come back on you one day. A friend of mine who builds flat trackers also got pinged for $800 deposit.

Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: VMX247 on January 04, 2010, 06:01:51 pm
Good for you marcFX--sometimes its not just the money, its the principle of touching base and letting you know what has gone wrong with the deal.. ::)  9 months too long.  >:(
no conscious... no morals .....I too say up yours too J,B and K , in sympathy for the frame.  8)
cheers
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: bazza on January 04, 2010, 06:15:38 pm
Bastards sounds like a UK frame maker was well known for those tricks. Not far from japan to USA, big boy like you might have to pop in for a chat,dont give up and hound the prick
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: LWC82PE on January 04, 2010, 06:28:33 pm
i wouldnt give up hope yet. I had major issues getting about $800 worth of NOS suzuki bits from UK from a so called reputable guy also featured/mentioned in VMX mag a while ago. It was an ongoing saga that took 3 plus years till i saw my parts. You could never phone him and when  you could get through there was excuses from his wife and when ever he did answer emails hes sorry story was that he kept having internet/email problems, which was all rubbish and he had plenty of time/opportunited where he could of set up a free yahoo/hotmail account to keep people up to date whats going on but he didnt. Eventually he decided he didnt want to send the parts to Australia, so i said ok send them to my UK friend which he agreed on that. Still nothing happened. On the odd occasion my UK friend got through to him by phone there was just endless excuses an no good reason as to why he had not sent my stuff. In the end my UK freind had to get his friend who didnt live to far away from this guy to go around and knock on the door and collect my parts as well as a part for my friend. The 'helper friend' thought he would ring the guy first while waiting outside his house and they wouldnt answer the phone. He could see the guy inside with his wife just sitting on the couch ingnoring the phone calls. So he had to knock on the door and it was only then that they answered the door. He eventually handed over the parts. He was also ment to hand back 60 pounds which was going to be the money for shipping my parts but since he was not shipping them to me he was ment to return the shipping costs. He didnt do that. It then took another 10 or so months for this guy to finally send the cheque to my UK friend who would then use that money to ship the parts to me. That was pretty much my worst experience ever but at least i go my parts in then end. Its really weird because when ever myself or my friend did get in contact with him he seemed really nice, but he had another side and really didnt know how to treat customers or run a business. I thought i would never see my parts but had to go to desperate measures to get them. I would have been stuffed with out friends in UK to help me.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: VMX247 on January 04, 2010, 06:36:44 pm
Hope we all got friends like you LWC82PE, when it come to the time of need  :)
cheers
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on January 04, 2010, 07:05:33 pm
yeah he might forget me but I won't forget him. I have a cousin Billy in Ohio and we are planning a little road trip.

(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/IMG_1530.jpg)
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: VMX247 on January 04, 2010, 07:13:33 pm
That will do the job. 8)  .I have back up with a Harrington & Richardson Single if need be  ;D
It a pleasure to shoot people in the feet they never forget  :o  ;D
cheers
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: mick25 on January 04, 2010, 08:14:14 pm
Send some photos of the black power gangs of NZ and say they are coming over to the USA that will put the wind up them as well ;) >:(
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on January 04, 2010, 10:21:55 pm
Send some photos of the black power gangs of NZ and say they are coming over to the USA that will put the wind up them as well ;) >:(

Nah I prefer to pack great Grandad's Enfield, what worked in 1876 against the original Black Power will do the job on freaking C&J.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Canam370 on January 04, 2010, 11:25:37 pm
  I found when a seller became elusive when I had paid for parts but not received them that mentioning that his details, the transaction details and copies of correspondence were of interest to his LOCAL police who took a dim view of fraud/theft the seller suddenly became quite chatty and apologetic. My gear showed up pretty promptly.
  Like LWC,you have to make the recalcitrant pricks understand that YOU CAN REACH OUT AND TOUCH THEM (whether in a 'polite' or even a particularly personally unpleasant way) despite where they live.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on January 05, 2010, 07:29:45 am
Yeah I have tried polite for months and it is not working which is why I have gone public on the forum. But you can find people pretty easily in the states, he has to pop up sometime. Calling the police or the IRS can work.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: 090 on January 05, 2010, 11:45:10 am
But surely you are on the wrong forum to get noticed. Shouldn't you be doing this on a U.S site? Marks swap meet as I suggested earlier?
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on January 05, 2010, 03:24:34 pm
But surely you are on the wrong forum to get noticed. Shouldn't you be doing this on a U.S site? Marks swap meet as I suggested earlier?

yes and very good point, not sure how they will feel about me posting on this subject.

Anyway just discovered that a lawyer will find him and send him a letter in the USA for $200.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: TM BILL on January 05, 2010, 03:34:22 pm
But surely you are on the wrong forum to get noticed. Shouldn't you be doing this on a U.S site? Marks swap meet as I suggested earlier?

yes and very good point, not sure how they will feel about me posting on this subject.

Anyway just discovered that a lawyer will find him and send him a letter in the USA for $200.

C'mon Marc you can cut a sharper deal than that  ;) dont those ambulance chasing Seppo briefs take on jobs for a commision based on a win  :)
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: jimson on January 05, 2010, 10:03:01 pm
Marc ring the bloke up and tell him your from VMX magazine doing a article on bad company's in the VMX seen that might raddle his cage. Or see if it would be easier to pick the things up in person as you will be in the states in a month or so on a hunting trip with some mates  ;D jimson
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: TM BILL on January 06, 2010, 12:13:15 pm
Marc ring the bloke up and tell him your from VMX magazine doing a article on bad company's in the VMX seen that might raddle his cage. Or see if it would be easier to pick the things up in person as you will be in the states in a month or so on a hunting trip with some mates  ;D jimson

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: paul on January 06, 2010, 12:17:51 pm
im sure vmx mag would  would love that
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on January 06, 2010, 03:17:54 pm
No I will refrain from the VMX mag references.

I notice the pricks website is back up since last time I looked but they have removed any direct contact details or photos of the perpetrators. Be very careful I would say. Meanwhile the rpesence of an IP address gives me a geographic location to start looking.

http://www.candjmotorcycles.com/HOME.html
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: LWC82PE on January 06, 2010, 05:51:33 pm
By far the best place to vent your anger and flush them out is www.vintagemx.us
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: bazza on January 06, 2010, 05:52:02 pm
 for $200 the pom will fly over if you can get him a suzuki ride while hes there.......lol. Every one should contact him threw his site and tell him hes scum
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Davey Crocket on January 08, 2010, 09:31:55 am
I thought the pom would do it for a packet of chrisps and a pint of lager eh govner!!! ;D
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on January 08, 2010, 10:17:53 am
I thought the pom would do it for a packet of chrisps and a pint of lager eh govner!!! ;D

No this Pom is more expensive as he has an expensive VMX habit to maintain.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Davey Crocket on January 08, 2010, 10:46:55 am
Actually, your right, he does have an exspensive "habit", mind you I now he'll do it for a certain KX125 that's been sitting here waiting for him to stop procrastinating over!! :D
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on January 08, 2010, 06:56:44 pm
Actually, your right, he does have an exspensive "habit", mind you I now he'll do it for a certain KX125 that's been sitting here waiting for him to stop procrastinating over!! :D

Taupo is like a black hole that sucks VMX bikes, don't worry he probably got enough tows in over the holidays to buy the KX with the cashies he hides from his old lady  ;D
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Tim754 on January 13, 2010, 05:58:17 pm
Stirred up anything positive yet Marc?
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on January 13, 2010, 07:24:26 pm
Stirred up anything positive yet Marc?

well with the help of Firko I have found out I am not alone, the more money involved the more interested the law becomes. There are actually laws against this stunt.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: TT5 Matt on January 13, 2010, 07:35:40 pm
i hope you and all the other good folk that trusted this "ladies thing" get to take him to the cleaners and maybe he might get a long stay in the "grey bar motel" dodging inmates that would give he a free rebore or two :o :D :'(
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: TT on January 13, 2010, 09:02:03 pm
It's a bloody shame when things go bad like this. If you've stuffed up your business, fine. But don't take others with you!
I've been chasing a C&J frame for an SP engine I've got waiting for it, but kinda gone cold on the idea when you hear stuff like this.

Good luck, Marc!
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Lozza on January 13, 2010, 10:36:52 pm
A while ago a few people had drama's with Ok-shon in Hong Kong a fellow started a website and a log of who had been burned and for how much. Then entered "Ripped off by OK-Shon?" on every motorcycle/car forum he could find (so it come up in google searches) forwarded all onto Hong Kong Police cyberfraud squad and within 1 week everyone had their money and/or goods.
A good template to follow ;)
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Graeme M on January 27, 2010, 09:58:01 am
Worth reading, everyone...

http://ausvmx.ning.com/profiles/blogs/jeff-cole-responds?xg_source=activity
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: GMC on January 27, 2010, 10:27:57 am
Yeah, that holds with what I have been told over the last week.

Spoke to a guy last week, who is in the same situation as Marc, he had allegedly been dealing with C & J with no success after forking out some dough. He apparently now is getting somewhere by dealing direct with Jeff Cole.

Also spent last Monday staring at a Jeff Cole frame as I built an exhaust for it. This one had been bought about 2 years ago and he had dealt direct with Jeff with no dramas.

Very nice workmanship too I must say.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: bazza on January 31, 2010, 03:25:04 pm
Hey mark have you taken him up on his offer to talk on his ph number,Mike
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: eric318 on March 01, 2011, 04:24:46 pm
Guys,

I have had the great pleasure to do excellent business with Jeff Cole formerly of C&J. He is enormously helpful,pleasant and knowledgeable.
I have bought 3 frames from him (for 2 friends and me), received last month as planned.
He is a wonderful fellow, and his craftsmanship is superb. Evidence is in my garage:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_AouLVMAxNLQ/TVSulwxdD-I/AAAAAAAAR3M/j3OTbKD3O8c/s400/IMG_20110210_185824.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_AouLVMAxNLQ/TVSuSP0rzFI/AAAAAAAAR3A/Er-t8cxkTkw/s640/IMG_20110210_185806.jpg)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_AouLVMAxNLQ/TVSpOSUr7tI/AAAAAAAAR1s/9ljv3KxLXi4/s640/IMG_20110210_190125.jpg)

And yes, I wish they would mate and breed... but alas....
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on March 01, 2011, 06:34:38 pm
Yeah probably one of the frames that was destined for me. Im calling the cops/
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: eric318 on March 02, 2011, 03:34:12 pm
Yeah probably one of the frames that was destined for me. Im calling the cops/

:) I hope not. Where are you based?
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Marc.com on March 02, 2011, 04:26:46 pm
What happened was me and a bunch of others got taken by Jeffs former worker trading as C&J Racing Frames, they went under but kept taking peoples money right up until the last.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: eric318 on March 02, 2011, 04:35:14 pm
What happened was me and a bunch of others got taken by Jeffs former worker trading as C&J Racing Frames, they went under but kept taking peoples money right up until the last.

I have come across a few guys who have suffered that situation. This stinks! Some are suing. Not fun!
Jeff was spot on, deliver on the dime! Highly recommended: 3 orders + repairs on another frame, 100% satisfied.
I hope you get your money back eventually and a frame!
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: eric318 on March 06, 2011, 03:19:23 am
For those with fat check books, here is one ready to ride:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/C-J-HONDA-TWINSHOCK-MOTOCROSS-HPF-MAICO-RM-RED-ROCKET_W0QQitemZ230593480127QQcategoryZ9806QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7524674031424719404 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/C-J-HONDA-TWINSHOCK-MOTOCROSS-HPF-MAICO-RM-RED-ROCKET_W0QQitemZ230593480127QQcategoryZ9806QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp5197.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7524674031424719404)
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Jeff Cole on February 09, 2013, 04:18:36 pm
Jeff Cole is not associated with Bill Culver who bought C&j frames. Jeff is producing some work on a custom order basis. He can be contacted at (760) 728 1707.
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: SON on February 09, 2013, 04:38:14 pm
Good to hear from you Jeff,
It is sad that someone else has burnt your good name and you have to defend it,
I see that Steve has retired,
hopefully by posting here, things start clearing up,
Can we ask questions about some of your old work?
Title: Re: C&J XR Frame rip off, be warned
Post by: Tim754 on February 09, 2013, 09:35:29 pm
To Jeff Cole , Sir it may be good practice if you were to Personal Message (PM)or email  marc.com here on this forum. Marc has been a long serving participant here and appears to be quite an honest ,intelligent  and respectable bloke. I have never met the man as he does not live in Australia but hope to one day somehow do so. Yes your name has been mixed in this bastardy, posting your phone number has been a fine start a clearing the filth up. Please take the time to do a the extra miles ,and maybe redeeming respect for your quality products too. Tim Derrick (Tim754)