OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vinduro => Topic started by: misfit on November 30, 2009, 01:09:48 pm
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i wondering if there are any reasons as to why a modified bike cant be entered in some vinduros.
for example:
honda xl250, with 305cc bore kit, cr250m tank, guards and sidecovers, xl175 front brake laced into an alloy rim, removable headlight (replaced with number plate), yss (or simular) shocks, cr250 forks, xl250 guages on custom alloy bracket, with an o-ring chain
This is my dream bike and im wondering if it would be eligable.
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See no reason at all for it not to be eligible - go for it! Be a good thing.
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This is my dream bike and im wondering if it would be eligable.
Enduro dreams used to be full of modified bikes, KX 125s with 200 engines, PE175s with RM suspension, all manor of converted MX bikes. Hell remember when there was a ISDT 750 class, I think they should bring that back in Vinduro it would be a hoot running a Cagiva Elefant or Morini Camel.
So go for it. Don't worry about eligibility, everything has a class.
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Be a demon on the fire roads ;D ;D
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/DSC_4229.jpg)
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For a start you are eligable it is a xl250 pre85 no matter what it has done to it it is a enduro bike it came out with a headlight etc etc there is nothing wrong with what you are suggesting maybe the headlight though but they wanted every bike to have a front and rear taillight but they dont have to work so that gives you a million options thanks Michael. :)
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Check with whoever is running the vinduros in your state (Queensland, right?).
Here in Victoria, they are non competitive, so as long as the bikes are Pre 85 and have lights and a decent muffler it doesn't really matter. Mixing and matching parts like you describe wouldn't be an issue here as far as I can see.
However, if you are planning on riding in a competitive event it would be wise to check the rules pertaining to classes etc, particulary if you have a preferred class to ride in.
Sounds like an interesting bike, by the way.
Tex
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At the moment Vinduro in any state has NO set rules in place for non competitive, so until or if they do then I would say anything is a go.
Cheers Mick.
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righto thanks everyone. so far i have got the cr tank for this project, and may be able to get cr forks and sidecovers from the guy who had the tank. anyway whats the go with vinduros in qld? are their any permanent annual events being organised?
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Does this include modified mx bikes too. :o
A contentous point at the moment. ???
Evo
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I dont have a real problem with mx bikes as long as they use period lights and fenders to try and capture the spirit of the period and have enduro type mufflers fitted if they make the lights work with a battery thats ok. You can get most of the period plastics from DC plastics and I think if someone has gone to that expense and effort the deserve a start.
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I think people are over complicating it because especially here in Vic these were the rules .
pre85
no mx bikes
and I think other small ones like must have head and taillight.
Not that I entirely agree with everything I do agree with pre85 I think that is a good cut off but I can not really see the harm when it is a non competitive event that a couple of bikes be allowed to ride if they are a bit newer if it were competitive it is a completly different story I did notice the modified mx bikes but what does that matter when it is not competitive and it has been done before when the bikes were new. while it is not competitive you should be fine and I think every one involved would think the same and want it to stay that way other wise you have to scrutineer everything there were parts installed that were not pre85 what do you do about that if it is competitive you dont let them run however it is not so they run and no one has trouble with what is eligable and what is not thanks Michael. :)
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A contentious point at the moment.
Really? How so?
People rode converted MX bikes in enduros prior to 1985. Like odd1 & Frosty, my understanding is that modified motocrossers are welcome.
I'm pretty sure prizes have been awarded to 'best converted motocross bike'* at Vinduros before too.
Tex
*Or something like that...
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Does this include modified mx bikes too. :o
A contentous point at the moment. ???
Evo
A contentious point at the moment.
Really? How so?
People rode converted MX bikes in enduros prior to 1985. Like odd1 & Frosty, my understanding is that modified motocrossers are welcome.
I'm pretty sure prizes have been awarded to 'best converted motocross bike'* at Vinduros before too.
Tex
*Or something like that...
Doesn't Vinduro stand for vintage enduro 8) not modified mx :o does that sound old school ;D
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Doesn't Vinduro stand for vintage enduro not modified mx
It doesn't stand for vintage trailbike either if you want to go down that road (trail)!
Surely the term refers to the type of event, rather than a very specific eligibility criteria! I mean, by that logic, no trail or enduro bikes can compete in vintage motocross either.
Tex
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MX bikes have always been modified for enduro competition, as have nearly all bikes used in some form of competition. Its not the type of bike thats modified, but how its modified that is the point here. The original IT 400 ( I WANT ONE ) only had 61 parts that were not YZ400 and it was used at the ISDT!
If a bike in question has been properly converted for enduro use,ie, lights;effective muffler;side or centre stands;etc, and meets other age criteria (Pre '85 ), I cant see why it can't be ridden in the appropriate event.
Internal modifications for horsepower, suspension or general performance would be allowed as long as these also meet period criteria.
For examples look at Rolf Witthoeft's Z751 ( a road bike ),all Bultaco enduro bikes were basically the previous years 'crosser,KTM enduros were the MC model with 6th gear unlocked and lights, etc. added
It's not the bike but the conversion that matters ;D ;D ;D
Roger
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Ideally it would be great that they are all enduro but that is not ever going to happen I wish not so many maico gs490 had been converted to mx as you dont see any at the events. The whole point of vintage enduro I think is getting the old bike and having fun since it is non competitive my mate rides a yz250 in the bush today so I am sure that it has never stopped happening and for a model code why should it YZ/IT PE/RM thanks Michael. :)
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My thoughts are, lets get some events happening and then work out the details. Give some awards to the best presented period bike or something to encourage the old ''Enduro Bikes'' out of the sheds.
Just get an event here in Qld before I die of old age, PLEASE!!.
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Does this include modified mx bikes too. :o
A contentous point at the moment. ???
Evo
I mean a contentous point in the way mx bikes are modified a headlight and tail just bolted and not connected and NOISY mx muffler still fitted does not make a vinduro bike to my way of thinking.
Evo
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I dont know about the noisy muffler deal either as a heap of guys run dg pipes and there is no way known that the yz250 etc etc were louder than my 400 on stock exhaust thanks Michael. :)
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a headlight and tail just bolted and not connected and NOISY mx muffler still fitted does not make a vinduro bike
My PE175 has a headlight & tail light just bolted on, and not connected. It's got a KX250 muffler too (not too noisy though). So far, so good...
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Doesn't Vinduro stand for vintage enduro not modified mx
It doesn't stand for vintage trailbike either if you want to go down that road (trail)!
Surely the term refers to the type of event, rather than a very specific eligibility criteria! I mean, by that logic, no trail or enduro bikes can compete in vintage motocross either.
Tex
I love your thinking. ;D
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Does this include modified mx bikes too. :o
A contentous point at the moment. ???
Evo
Yeah how so? Check the thread about future directions part 4.
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I dont know about the noisy muffler deal either as a heap of guys run dg pipes and there is no way known that the yz250 etc etc were louder than my 400 on stock exhaust thanks Michael. :)
Totally agree. How many Vintage bikes still have their original exhausts fitted? I used to have a 81 IT250 with a aftermarket muffler fitted and it was the loudest bike i have ever owned. I agree with the 85 cutoff date and period light fittings. Also everyone should always try to keep noise levels down.
I have an interest in this issue because i have a converted MX bike. Mine has period headlight/ tailight, Repacked DG muffler, working lights and its Rec registered. I can ride mine anywhere ;D
The other thing is, even if Vinduros where competitive, riding a MX bike has no real advantages. They are harder to ride.
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Drakie made some comments about no MX bikes when the Vinduro scene was being set up in Vic. . I don't think he intended to ban all MX bikes, as even many early European stuff is based on MX bikes.
I think he was worried about a lot of MX bikes just turning up for the ride & overshadowing the Enduro bikes, but it seems their are a few that are hanging onto his every word as if it was gospel.
MX bikes were converted in the day & should be allowed to now.
"Spirit of the Era" is an old line that springs to mind, even though their are many different interprtations of it.
As for mufflers, EVERY BIKE NEEDS TO BE MUFFLED PROPERLY
Just because it's a Enduro or Trail bike muffler doesn't mean it's effective.
Some of the Venues we have are near houses, we need to fly under the radar if we are to keep these venues.
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I definetly agree they should be all muffled properly but I was just stating that my 400 on stock pipe was one of the louder bikes there and it would pass a road worthy no dramas at all dont go running straight out exhaust or anything silly.
I dont think it is the place for a stock mx bike either but I do agree that alot of enduro are the same as there motorcrosser of the same time and I think that no reason should a modified bike not be allowed to run I could see the harm if all motorcrossers turned up.
I don't think people want it to be like that anyway and most the guys are just happy to ride and it is a casual event there isn't a rulebook as such it is all common sense stuff really thanks Michael. :)
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Just get an event here in Qld before I die of old age, PLEASE!!.
We're working on it (Sunshine coastMCC)
I wanted to do it before CD7, but there is a good chance of us getting another big event about the time I was thinking.
BTW There's a good chance it won't be at Conondale.
As for MX bike's, I agree with GMC and would add, I want old enduro bike's and riders for that matter held in the same regard as the MX stuff is. I'm not sure that can happen if you allow it to be open to any bike.
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Yes well without rules do what you want but I think they will come in as pre85 has been exceeded a couple of times and no mx has been as well. Although I am sure they didn't want things to get over technical and you don't need to panic it will sort itself out some one has to decide no post pre85 and no mx but modified it will start to get real confusing. So yes and no need to be clear as when I entered you had to list the make model and year of bike. I didnt even notice the mx or later bikes personally. :)
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it is all common sense stuff really
Exactly.
I didnt even notice the mx or later bikes personally
Me neither. I was always too busy getting into it and HAVING FUN.
Tex
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Shit TEX, don't let too many know that you're having fun or they might want to join you-or worse-call the fun police!!
Like I've said-let's just go riding-see who turns up-then work on the rules. If we make it too hard to start with, no bugger will bother and some great bikes will stay in sheds for another 10 yrs.
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Oh, I'm happy with the rules that we have here in Vic, I'm also happy to see that thus far they have been tempered with common sense and the "spirit" of the event.
Here's to more of the same in 2010!
Tex
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I have had people ask me on my forum about rules for Vinduro as they would like to look at getting a bike, I use to tell them its Pre 85, taillight-headlight etc,etc,,,but there seems to be a few that want follow on model bikes etc etc which have been in Vinduros, so there go's the Pre 85 " rule " out the door,,,,,I now figger it is just safer to say there are NO rule books on Vinduro so I guess that means you can do what you like and people will and do until there is a couple of rules inforced like ( cut off date ) which is the main one I would like brought in.
Cheers Mick.
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I agree Mick that there should be a pre85 or twinshock format and enduro only would be nice but as they are saying, even back in the day you could run a YZ125 with lights and most Euro enduro bikes were just MXers with lights-so lets stick to that criteria. As to if they work or not, lets score some extra points for those that do- road trials style.
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Quote
Doesn't Vinduro stand for vintage enduro not modified mx
It doesn't stand for vintage trailbike either if you want to go down that road (trail)!
Surely the term refers to the type of event, rather than a very specific eligibility criteria! I mean, by that logic, no trail or enduro bikes can compete in vintage motocross either.
Tex
True 8)
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Yeh good point...Vinduro is moe about the type/style of event rather than strictly a type of bike....although I'm sure most people know what is mostly covered in that era. And agree it's gotta be FUN and inclusive. :)
So maybe pre 1990 with a headlight and see who/what turns up. Am sure 'we' can handle anything in that range.
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How about pre 85, pre 90 and a Special interest class for modifieds from the 2 'era's'?
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Sounds Ok Canam....not a bad idea....gettin close i think!! ;D
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I rode an MX250A in enduros in the 70's. Agree it is the event format that gives it the enduro tag. Guess I will have to get my head and tail lights working on my PE250Z though, and I am shit at electrics, or is that not necessary in Qld fo rthe Vinduro being proposed?
Are there any legal places to ride unreg trail bikes in SEQ?
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Only on private land (with owners permission) or in a moto park as in Emu ck or Rover park (Nth NSW) or Blackduck etc...
Did you ever recover from an enduro on the MX250??/ :D
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I would like to see pics of the 250z PE electrics arent hard because they are a 6v total loss system little things catch you out dodgy connections etc etc you dont have to have the head and taillight going to ride in the vinduro's :)
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This is a CR125 with lights, etc.........is there any reason it would not be eligible for a vinduro ( as long as it meets sound level requirements )?
(http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/yumastepside/Composite.jpg)
Roger
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I would allow it. then again only if he ran that front tyre ;)
The left hand side plate must have been too hard.
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That is fine I have seen various mx bikes they arent going to knock you back when some effort has been made to set it up for vinduro except only question is why would you want to vinduro a cr125 when plenty of enduro bikes are available still at reasonable prices and a cr is a good mx rig.
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........probably owned a CR but doesn't like motocross ??? ??? ??? ???
Roger
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It does look like a good job maybe if rules tighten up it might not be allowed but at the moment seeing as vinduro is non competitive it is about fun not getting fussy on minor details the more bikes and the more people the better plus I can ride my enduro in a vmx event no questions asked there.
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If " the rules tighten up " to a point where you can't run a properly enduro modified bike, be it a motocrosser or modded enduro bike, you're going to lose half of the people at these events !
Four of my 175 japanese enduro bikes ( KDX,PE,IT and MR ) are full race modded, mx pipes, suspension and running gear, and properly silenced.
Would this exclude them from a Vinduro ??
If this is the case, then the '77 IT 400 that I rode in the day would be excluded because the IT400's only had 61 parts that weren't YZ400 ??? ??? ???
This would also exclude my '77 CR250 Husky that I rode in enduro's at that time as well. ??? ??? ??? >:( >:(
Roger
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I can't see it happening.
1. From the outset, Vinduros have been about doing it and having fun, without the hassles that strict eligibility brought to VMX.
2. Simply keeping 25+++ year old dirt bikes running means that 'modifications' will creep in, regardless of any rules.
3. Its non-competitive - the old "He's faster than me because he's changed his bike" is irrelevant.
4. There's already a big range of bikes, all in the one (non-competitive) 'class' - and 84 KTM250XC is still going to blow the doors off an enduroised CR125M, so who cares that the CR started life as an MXer?
The Vinduros I've been to have been low-stress fun. Let's keep it that way!
:)
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Yes I couldn't see them tighten up that much either if they did it should only be a set year like the pre85 and it should not include mods I am going to put a disc front end on one of my pe400's but it should still be eligable based on it is still the same bike no matter what mods I do to it.
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I dont think there is any need to get stressed about vinduro rules at the moment. As long as its no newer than a 84 model enduro or trail bike or a properly modifed pre 85 MXer that is within the spirt of vinduro with period looking lights, rear fender, good muffler etc then i dont see there is any problem. You wont get knocked back if you have a nicely well thought out modified Mxer for vinduro. What they dont want is bare bones Mxers that look like they have just rolled off the trailer from a VMX race that barely meet the critera with just little tail light duct taped to the rear guard an some modern looking headlight roughly straped to the forks and still with the loud small mx muffler fitted. Thats what the organisers dont want to see, but im sure they have no issues if you have seriously gone to the effort to modify a Mxer they way people back in the day it, eg different fenders, preston petty lights, bigger mufflers, aftermarket tanks, bash plates etc etc.
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Thanks Leith, you've come up with the answer to the point I was trying to make, and made the most accurate and informative statement in this entire thread.
.............proper enduro bikes,whether modified or original.
.............pre '85
and as Nathan said........keeping old dirt bikes alive and having FUN
Roger
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Rules, either VMX or Vinduro, should never stop anyone from restoring, riding or having fun ;) :). Rules should only stop someone from taking a trophy (and then only at the most senior serious level :-\).
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There's a lot of speculation, opinion and discussion about vinduro eligibility, but ultimately what you have to do is check with the event organisers in your particular state.
That's a nice CR by the way.
The Vinduros I've been to have been low-stress fun. Let's keep it that way!
Agreed.
Tex