79 CR250 Front End Conversion

[HeavenVMX]

This question requires a YES or No response, from the people who interpret the rule as being able to use major components from later model drum brake bikes (in this instance forks)

Can I use 1984 KTM 495 upside down forks on my RM 250 T in the Evo class ?

Thanks.

Stupid question.. No

Stupid question...Why?
No...Why?
I just applied the same reasoning you do by using forks from a drum braked, air cooled, linkage bike. Plus not to mention the reasoning of no performance gain, some would even argue even worse performance than a set on 1984 43mm Yamaha forks..
So why No?

Evo bikes have always had to have conventional forks, you know that...

Is that another secret rule as USD forks are not referred to in the rules

[Ted]

Exactly. Absolutely no reference to USD forks.

I smell a rat.

[mustanggrahame]

I'll put my hand up and say the drum brake USD forks of a KTM must be legal. Not a stupid question at all.

[supersenior 50]

If KTM had USD forks with drum brake, it in itself is legal. If it has to be modified to fit to a '79 Honda it is not legal.
The MODIFIED clause is the key, and makes a nonsence of talk of 2014 forks etc. As the Meercat says "simple"

[William Doe]

If KTM had USD forks with drum brake, it in itself is legal. If it has to be modified to fit to a '79 Honda it is not legal.
The MODIFIED clause is the key, and makes a nonsence of talk of 2014 forks etc. As the Meercat says "simple"

Sorry but this is where it all falls over IMHO . Define modified ?

Oxford definition :    To make partial or minor changes to (something)

[evo550]

We both agree they aren't legal John, but that's where it ends. My reasoning comes from the MOMS, your comes from they need to be conventional
Grab my hand and lets go for a skip down memory lane together...now close your eyes. Remember way back when the introduction of a brand new class to vmx called "EVOLUTION" was mentioned. SHOCK HORROR!!!, long travel suspension, single shocks, they cried, it will ruin the sport and destroy the tracks.
But in it came anyway. Way before Pre 78, Way before pre '85 and Way before pre 90.
Do you think that when the rules where first written way back then that the intention was to let components from a watercooled bike into the sport of VMX, or components from a linkage bike into VMX, I think not.
No other class has that luxury, you can't put a set of 77 Maico forks on a pre 75 elsinore and still race it in Pre 75.
If your putting a set of '83 43mm Honda forks on your CR250, go right ahead, just race it in the pre '85 class..

[gdr]

The answer to you EVO550 is a no as they are inverted forks not conventional, even though they are drum brake. The sticklers for this are just doing it because they can, it makes no sense at all to "fostering" the sport of VMX racing & will most certainly discourage new participants. As for the Dutch twinshock frankenbike scenario, well that goes against the "spirit" of VMX racing so therefore no fear of that happening. Good thing I'm not a scrutineer, I would decline any bike fitted with tapered bars, black modern rims & gobs of CNC machined billet alloy. Much more of a travesty to vintage bikes than 30 year old conventional forks. The point is moot anyway, it's been proven they are good to go and DT even said so before last years nats so why are these guys so bent up about it? Someone should build a horror of a bike within the current rules & turn up with it to see how they like that, I'm sure the squeals would still come. An example would be a '79 Honda chassis, 1984 Husky 500 engine, '81 YZ465 43mm forks & twin shoe brake with the latest greatest 150 click adjustable rebound/compression shocks, billet alloy everything, Pro taper bars, etc, etc. It's all legal but would be a horrific mismatch and what do you have in the end? A lot worse of a creation than a pair of '82 Honda forks in an '80 model Honda. Please let common sense prevail on this matter.
K

Now I know where we pick up the speed from ,the tag bars and black rims 

[foxy999]

Putting mag wheels on a vehicle is a modification , changeing a exhurst on a car or bike is a modification , puting later parts on a earlier bike is a modification . Col you got it wright 

[Ted]

If KTM had USD forks with drum brake, it in itself is legal. If it has to be modified to fit to a '79 Honda it is not legal.
The MODIFIED clause is the key, and makes a nonsence of talk of 2014 forks etc. As the Meercat says "simple"

Nonsense is it.

If the OEM wording is struck from the rules all you have to do is manufacture a brake plate to suit any fork you care to use. Doing this you become a manufacturer, not a modifier converting later equipment to comply. You make it from new, hence no modifications required. Simple.

[RjpRacingAustralia]

I'm new to this stuff and don't know much but what sounds fair and legit to me is if you choose to run an 1984 engine in a 1979 bike you run in pre 85. if you run components of a pre 95 bike on your pre 90 you run pre 95.
I don't want to rock the boat and I haven't studied the rules but that's my opinion from an outsider looking in on this argument and what I think is period correct .   

[JohnnyO]

We both agree they aren't legal John, but that's where it ends. My reasoning comes from the MOMS, your comes from they need to be conventional
Grab my hand and lets go for a skip down memory lane together...now close your eyes. Remember way back when the introduction of a brand new class to vmx called "EVOLUTION" was mentioned. SHOCK HORROR!!!, long travel suspension, single shocks, they cried, it will ruin the sport and destroy the tracks.
But in it came anyway. Way before Pre 78, Way before pre '85 and Way before pre 90.
Do you think that when the rules where first written way back then that the intention was to let components from a watercooled bike into the sport of VMX, or components from a linkage bike into VMX, I think not.
No other class has that luxury, you can't put a set of 77 Maico forks on a pre 75 elsinore and still race it in Pre 75.
If your putting a set of '83 43mm Honda forks on your CR250, go right ahead, just race it in the pre '85 class..

Ok mate I've just taken a little hop skip and jump down memory lane when I rode in the first year of the Evo class in 96 at the Thumper Nats on my 79 CR250 with 83 CR480 forks and it was legal then (by the way where we're you?) and so was my 81 490 Maico with 83 YZ490 forks at the very first Australian Evo Title in 2004 at Conondale..
The rules haven't changed since then!

[mustanggrahame]

Be careful John. Just because Evo was or wasn't at the Thumpernats when the twin shock racing started, doesn't mean his argument is or isn't correct. And wasn't the support class at the Thumpernats called twin shock, not evolution? I rode in 4/stroke events and a friend had a husky in the twin shock. I remember thinking then that it was an odd concept (not having a cut off date).

[gdr]

The think I do not understand , if the later model forks make no difference to the bike why run them ?

[Ted]

Because they make a hell of a difference to the forks the bike was manufactured with. 37mm compared to later 43mm Do the sums.

[JohnnyO]

Be careful John. Just because Evo was or wasn't at the Thumpernats when the twin shock racing started, doesn't mean his argument is or isn't correct. And wasn't the support class at the Thumpernats called twin shock, not evolution? I rode in 4/stroke events and a friend had a husky in the twin shock. I remember thinking then that it was an odd concept (not having a cut off date).

Grahame 93-95 it was called twinshock then it changed to Evo so that Yamaha's could race.
The rules have always been the same since the beginning of Evo so if 82/83 forks were legal then why aren't they now?